ECU Flash for VR4

[Davezj]

so are you saying you have an openport 2.0 cable aDe.

and when it installs the drives for it, the computer thinks it is a 1.3 cable.

[mpau009]

Im very keen to give this a go.. Is it something i can realistically do by myself? I have just spent ages cutting out my MAP2, and am saving to buy a Link G4 standalone ecu. But for $2400nzd if this can get the same type of result i'll give it a go. Am i fooling myself, or are there some places to start learning how to go about it.

[Eurospec]

I'd prolly only need it for a day Mike to play with it a bit.

The biggest issue is the rom deffinition. (the xml file) I cant dissasemble or anything, so i cant create new xmls. The xml will be unique to each individual part number ecu. Manual and auto will be different, as will uk vs jdm.

The xml rom definition will define what can or cant be seen or changed. If it cant be seen it cant be changed even if it is there if you see what i mean.

Assuming the rom definition is for a particular ecu, then any car with that ecu can have its ecu edited by using that rom definition. If valmes has done it, i'm sure he would have had a damn good go at getting as much in there as he could.

Ref the ease of tuning vs piggybacks/standalones. Its certainly harder when doing things you have to flash, because there is no live mapping possibility. You have to observe what happens, turn off the car, make the change and load it, turn the car back on and retest. You rinse an repeat till its done. That could be extremely time consuming. Something like a link G4 Storm (which is excellent by the way) or a Haltech, or even piggybacks like a map2 etc are much much easier to do since you make the change and you see an instant response.

Piggy back is harder to achieve consistancy with than standalone, but they are much more complex in their initial set up.

Bottom line, as with all these things, start with small changes and get into the complexities as you gain confidence.

Also bear in mind that the stock chip will have been set for a certain number of write cycles. i dont really understand how this works, something to do with how the memory works. With a stock ecu chip in an evo they recon you get about 100 writes, but saying that last time i saw this discussed, one guy was saying he'd done thousands on his. Eventually the write corrupts and thats it game over chip. Standalones/piggybacks will take tens of thousand of writes before they start to tire- but then thats what they are designed for.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,

Ben.

[Eurospec]

Sorry one last thing:-

Yes there are places where you can learn to do this. EFI University being one. They do courses around the world, but dont be surprised if you have to travel. I did mine in California.

Or wait till the summer when we start doing courses here and pop on over!

Cheers,

Ben.

[Gly]

this is currently being spoken about on ozvr4

http://www.ozvr4.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4510

8g vr4 ecu flashing has been done by a guy in russia, (to all 8g ecu's)

I was right!
Called Dmitry 5 mins ago, he told me that he plans to release to public the module for EcuEdit that'll be able to reflash our ECUs in the middle February.
So what we need: OpenPort cable, VR-4 ECU, and a little patience while Dmitry makes this module.

[Paul C]

BenH,
I have a Vr4 Tip-Tronic 1996 ECU that I know longer requirer if you need one to play with. I'm back in 4 weeks so give me a shout if you want it.

[kinkyafro]

So reading around we're talking about two methods

The openport 2.0 ecuflash method which looks like it requires a facelift ECU (also OZVR4 attempts to flash the mh7203 chip introduced in 2001 have so far been unsuccesful even though it is H8 based).

The Dimitry method which uses ecuedit and is otherwise an unknown quantity (may involve desoldering chips or other nasties) and is reported to work on mid-1996 onwards ECU's (although i thought the VR4 was introduced in July '96).

It's also worth noting that the Dimitry method is not yet in the public domain but reportedly imminent while the openport one is available now.

EDIT:
Some stuff here doesn't make sense having taken a look at the CAPS database and read through some of the Russian threads using google translate... I suspect that Dimitry's method is basically the same as the openport method but utilising a homebrew cable..

The main reason I think this is that the ECU part numbers (A/T MD340289 M/T MD340288) don't start transitioning to newer ones until February 2008 and I don't see how the ECU could undergo a processor change without having a new part number. There's also a few mentions on the russian forums of the ecu needing to be in a plastic case - speaking personally my November 96 MD340289 ECU has the metal casing.

[Davezj]

EDIT:-
picture of metal and plastic ECU. not my original pic's i think they came from Kenneth. first 3 pics 97 ECU and last 3 pics are 2002 ECU don't know if they are manual or auto engine ECU's

[Turbo_Steve]

Well, we definitely know that some ECUs (notably it seems to be the facelifts) are in plastic cases whilst the PFLs generally seem to be in metal, but then there seem to be exceptions to that rule: probably around the "crossover" time, they were just taking what was available at the time, i.e. Late spec PFLs may have the newer ECU.

[Hotwire]

Dmitry's information of the MH7201 only being till mid 96 is incorrect. From my research, ALL steel cased (Pre-facelift) ECU's have had the MH7201FS chip. I believe Dmitry is correct though that the MH7201 is the M16 core, as I have tried numerous methods to read the MH7201 in my car and I can't.

So to get the MH7202 it seems it is only in the 98-00 facelift ECUs (01+ seems to be MH7203 which its unclear if that has a H8 core or not)

[Davezj]

so are you saying the M16 core (read metal cased pre Facelift ECU, manual or auto engine ecu) is unreadable and unwritable by any method tried.

[GT40-Steven]

Any news around this yet?

[dublee]

I was in cw performance in wexford a couple of weeks ago, Barry there took a copy of my rom and guarenteed me my(2000 manual vr4) ecu can be reflashed, he then went on to reflash my ecu with the original one he took off it.
He is going to look into creating a map, or whatever it is he has to do(i'm a newbie, dont know about the tecnical details at all), i'll keep you guys updated on the progress.

[Davezj]

i am not sure that proves anything.

what you would need to get him to do is read you ecu, change 1 perameter, write it back to ecu switch car off disconnect battery. reconnect battery and read ecu to see if the changed perameter is still changed.

if it has changed then that is a flashed ECU.

what i would expect to happen is when the ECU is read after battery reconnect then the original Factory Map will be back.

But i hope you are right and he can do it for you.

If you have an AUTO, just remember if you do disconnect the battery the A/T ecu will have to learn your gear shift points again and the auto box will feel like crap

[evonut270]

bit of an update there has been quite a bit of work on the current definition file for various tables and the file is now resembling something we can work with.however there is a problem with flashing the H8 processor at this point to which a solution has been found and is under testing.the updated files are available to look at on geekmapped.com

[evonut270]

i am not sure that proves anything.

what you would need to get him to do is read you ecu, change 1 perameter, write it back to ecu switch car off disconnect battery. reconnect battery and read ecu to see if the changed perameter is still changed.

if it has changed then that is a flashed ECU.

what i would expect to happen is when the ECU is read after battery reconnect then the original Factory Map will be back.

But i hope you are right and he can do it for you.

If you have an AUTO, just remember if you do disconnect the battery the A/T ecu will have to learn your gear shift points again and the auto box will feel like crap

you do not need to disconnect the battery after a reflash and even if you did the flashed map you put on it will still be there.

[AlanDITD]

i am not sure that proves anything.

what you would need to get him to do is read you ecu, change 1 perameter, write it back to ecu switch car off disconnect battery. reconnect battery and read ecu to see if the changed perameter is still changed.

if it has changed then that is a flashed ECU.

what i would expect to happen is when the ECU is read after battery reconnect then the original Factory Map will be back.

But i hope you are right and he can do it for you.

If you have an AUTO, just remember if you do disconnect the battery the A/T ecu will have to learn your gear shift points again and the auto box will feel like crap

This is all a bit new to me, but is that not impossible? are the VR4 ECU chips writeable or are all chips writeable? Im just going off what i know about honda tunning where the original Chip from the ECU i.e P72 has to be replaced in order to write to this anyway? The Original File from the P28/P72 can then be loaded to the Chip to act as a basemap before tunning?

Are there any ECU's that can be directly written to with no modification at all to the ECU, even if its just soldering a new chip in.

Sorry if this has very obvious answers

Cheers

[Turbo_Steve]

Alan...in Short, yes it's easily possible: if you know the magic words.
Honda insist on using old technology in their ECUs: fairly basic processors and extremely basic ROM packages. Nothing wrong with it, as it appears to work very well. Honda are generally quite traditional electrically and sometimes mechanically - why change something that works?


Most modern ECUs are more like modern mobile phones: the firmware is held in EEPROMS or "Electronically Erasable/Programmable Read Only Memories". These will allow themselves to be completely overwritten (usually only in a single sequential pass, so you HAVE to overwrite it's entire contents) with anything you like.....as long as you know the right commands to send to the processor to tell it to unlock it's memory.

Dependant on what you atually change, this may or may not require an ECU restart. Generally if you just change the data in the maps, and none of the program addresses or registers are affected, then the ECU will just pick up where it left off. If you start getting clever and changing the software, then it can be neccesary to disconnect and reconnect the battery: Car ECUs are never fully switched off, holding all sorts of parameters in volatile memory, as well as (in many cases) last known engine position etc. and in our case even gearbox behaviour (the gearbox is a feedback system, so it doesn't know how to change gear accurately until it's done it a few times! This masks any mechanical creepage in the box).

The issue seems to be that the older, M16 processor core either doesn't support (or isn't known to support) any of these commands, either by design or due to cost, or simply because we don't know enough about it yet. The H8 core (used in later Evos, Eclipses etc) has been beaten, so it's more a case of working out the kinks for our specifc ECU.

Unfortunately, most of us have metal boxed, old M16 cored ECUs, which means we might see plastic cased ECUs start commanding a premium soon!

[AlanDITD]

Ahh ok well that helps alot, Everything i have ever leanred about cars, has been based around hondas as thats all i have owned and modified pretty much.

Thanks and have some rep mate

[Turbo_Steve]

Thanks dude! I love Hondas..they're brilliant to drive...just wish they made them a bit more....serious?