Power Issues (FAO Dreamweaver)

[BraindG]

After reading your comments here (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=86458&postcount=10) It got me thinking.

I am having a power problem in my car, one in every 5 starts will see the car slowly, but surley losing power, to the point where the car starts spluttering as the ECU can't control the engine due to the lack in power (not good) I can always tell when its going to happen as my EVC5 display isn't as bright as normal, and as the time passes the power fades to the point I can't read the display anymore. I have learnt that using as much power as possible (windows, full beam, stereo full blast, hazards on etc etc etc..) in the car seems to trip the system and kick it back into life (people at JAE might have seen me do this).

I always though this was the altenator, so I was waiting till I dropped the engine to change my clutch before looking into it. However after reading your post DW im not to sure that’s the problem. Could you please elaborate on what happens to your car when this power loss issue arrises?

I have an earthing kit (actually from a compaq server rack) which im going to use to re-earth the engine bay, perhaps im havnig some issues there. You also mentioned power spikes, which to be honest I can’t see happening, what did this guy mention regardnig the power spikes?

Again, directed at DW, you mentioned that you have a mad vibration at around 80/90mph. I again also have this issue, it only happens when your off the power, i.e. coasting. I also have a mad vibration when flooring it hard (noticed this yesterday on snake pass to sheffield) I strongly believe this is caused my the drive shafts. Which im having changed very soon, so I can confirm/deny this theory very soon.

[AllBeItMine]

Get a new battery.

[BraindG]

Get a new battery.
Already have :(

[Dream Weaver]

Thanks for the info.

I also thought my problems were not the alternator as mine was relaced with a brand new Mitsi one by Xtreme less than three months ago.

I got all the electrical stuff checked that I had put in since I got the car:

In order of fitting

Clifford 650 alarm
Audio system
Clifford Intellistart & Parrot handsfree (installed at the same time)

The audo and parrot checked out OK. The Clifford guy discovered that the battery was only showing 12.4 volts on tickover when it should be more.

But no problems with the Clifford alarm.

That left the alternator, which by the way had developed a loud squealing noise. Despite Xtreme adjusting the belt tensioner this as got slowly worse.

Bear in mind the new alternator with fifting had cost me nearly £600. I did not suspect the alternator at first as it was a recently fitted genuine part. I also upgraded the battery to a new 68 Amp hour version.

Still had problems so I have booked it into RSE Motorsport in Llandudno Junction who have a very good reputation with Evo enthusiasts. They ahd already serviced my Evo and done a very thorough job.

Anyway their technician called me yesterday to tell me that the alternator was supplying no voltage at all until the car gets to 3000RPM then it starts supplying power.

So my £600 alternator is a dud.

Needless to say I am not happy about this but at least he has found no other fault with the electrics in my car besides that they are being starved of volts. The wiring is fine and hopefully a new alternator should put it right. I did ask if anything on the car would cause alternator problems and he said no, its a dud alternator.

So he is taking it out today and we will see how we get on.

I notice you are in Manchester, it might be worth speaking to RSE, they are all car nuts, only a small company but very focused and they will actually listen to you. They are patient and polite and genuinely care about their customers.


http://www.rsemotorsportuk.com

[Dream Weaver]

Get a new battery.

I've had two

[Dream Weaver]

Just had a call from RSE, the alternator that Xtreme installed about 6 weeks ago at a cost of nearly £600 is completely burnt out inside.

They are in the process of getting a refund from Xtreme and/or Mitsubishi under warranty, for the alternator at least - I hope some for the labour as well.........

[BraindG]

ah, thats interesting... perhaps it is still the altenator... keep us posted DW!

[Dream Weaver]

Latest news.

RSE Motorsport contacted Xtreme about a refund to me under warranty for the duff alternator.

At first Xtreme did not want the dud alternator back but now they have asked for it so it was sent yesterday.

Also they are checking the mileage at the time of alternator change against the mileage on my car now to see if I have done a million miles since they did the work.

One symptom I forgot to mention was the MMCS screen having a sort of striping effect at tickover. Not verynoticeable but a bit like a TV just slightly out of tune.

[Dream Weaver]

Again, directed at DW, you mentioned that you have a mad vibration at around 80/90mph.

It was the transfer box on its way out.

[BraindG]

It was the transfer box on its way out.
Were there any other symptoms? cos ive still got the wobble after changing Drive shaft.

[BraindG]

Well, my car starting to piss me off now, ive had to get loads of jump starts from random people at petrol stations, halfords, tescos etc :embarasse

So, i went out and bought a volt gauge, and read this article (http://www.bcae1.com/charging.htm) and this one (http://members.1stconnect.com/anozira/SiteTops/energy/Alternator/alternator.htm)

Using the volt gauge i can see the following.

Doing sharp left/rights i lose loads of power, right down to 8~9 volts :rolleyes4
Braking hard brings the power back up to around 13v (about right)
Flooring it will see increases of power, but sometimes lose of power :inquisiti
Charging the battery overnight has no affect
Buying a new battery has no changes.
when at idle the gauge says 12v :o (when not suffering from power loss - i.e. after ive tripped it)
Once I get my power loss, and at idle my gauge says 8~9v - However i can trip this, details below.


K... as you can imagine this sucks eggs. But how can you tell without a gauge that there are power issues? Well... the main symptom is that the car splutters, and jerks alot at around 80~90mph. It will idle fine, and the lights are bright.

Like i said there are no real symptoms, other than the splutter mentioned above. However, if the power drops to below 9v all sorts of weird and wonderfull things start to happen!.. they include


Major splutter at Idle
Electric windows crawl up, or down
electric mirrors take ages to open/close
stereo switches off (for me atleast - might be the way i have it wired in)
Fans for heating slow right down, at lower voltage they switch off.
Rev counter bounces of zero like its on cocaine.
ABS lights flash on and off
Car will stall
Obviously the car won't start


This problem can be rectified by tripping (as im calling it) the system. Bascially whats required is that you use everything in your can thats electric.. windows, mirrors, fans central locking full beam, lights, fogs, brakes, rev... you get the idea. What happens here is that the gauge that was tickling 8¬9v suddenly rises up to 12~13v. If you switch off everything again, you will notice the car is idling correctly again.

So whats causing this? Personally Ive NFI, however like i said at the start I read this article (http://www.bcae1.com/charging.htm) and this one (http://members.1stconnect.com/anozira/SiteTops/energy/Alternator/alternator.htm)

From what I understand from both articles This may be a regulator issue. When i use all my power, windows, lights etc, the regulator will say, oh, hang on i need to release more power to cope with this extra demand. Makes sense doesn't it?

Once i know more (im checking alternator this weekend) ill post up more findings..






Again, directed at DW, you mentioned that you have a mad vibration at around 80/90mph. I again also have this issue, it only happens when your off the power, i.e. coasting. I also have a mad vibration when flooring it hard (noticed this yesterday on snake pass to sheffield) I strongly believe this is caused my the drive shafts. Which im having changed very soon, so I can confirm/deny this theory very soon.

Changing the Drive shaft made no difference to the 80/90mph wobble. However after changing Transfer Box/Rear Diff oil the wobble went away for a short time... Ive still to get wheel balance checked (sat job)

[zentac]

when reving the car you should get close to 14v even at idle you should have more than 12v

[BraindG]

when reving the car you should get close to 14v even at idle you should have more than 12v
Yeah, thats what I believe, however tisn't the case. Its prolly a atenator in one way or the other. Unless theres something somewhere just draining all meh power... but what, and where... ive nfi.

[Kieran]

From what I understand from both articles This may be a regulator issue. When i use all my power, windows, lights etc, the regulator will say, oh, hang on i need to release more power to cope with this extra demand. Makes sense doesn't it?

Yes. When some red-haired fool popped the voltage regulator assembly on my GLS :embarasse /pan After a while I got similar symptoms. Thing is, there's no easy way of diagnosing a faulty regulator without a scope, is there? :inquisiti

Also, isn't the alternator on the VR-4 a nightmare job to change? /help

[andy43]

With my extensive :rolleyes4 automotive electrical experience /Hmmm it does sound like the regulator pack in the alternator, causing voltage loss - a recon one might be worth a shot to see if it does the same thing.
Or it could be a leak... have you noticed dripping from the fusebox, or a pool of electricity under the car at all :evil2:

[BraindG]

Also, isn't the alternator on the VR-4 a nightmare job to change? /help

Oh yes /help

Ill give it a go though :)



Or it could be a leak... have you noticed dripping from the fusebox, or a pool of electricity under the car at al
Hmm, no... ill check under car after meh lunch :happy:

[BraindG]

I FIXED IT!!!!



Fan-bloody-tastic!...

Well, after all the panic, the worry, etc etc etc.... the problem was just....

actually take a guess!

What i can say is that under idle it sits at about 13.5v~14v... and at full peltage its much the same :leer: :smug:

[Physician]

My immediate reaction after reading your first few lines on first post was EARTHING somewhere. (Bear in mind I'm really technical ! :embarasse )

EDIT: Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ! Slipping belt?

[BraindG]

I spoke to bloody soon didn't I...

Started the car this afternoon, went for a spin... volts went from 12, 11, 10, 9... and then right down to 6.... with no sign of going back up...

7 hours later, and one mega huge bodge job, and its working again...

will post pictures of the cause, and solution tomorrow at work. :rolleyes4 :zzz:

[BraindG]

So, there I was, Monday Bank Holiday... I done my chores, picked up the new fridge, make lunch for everyone and thus gained sufficient brownie points to go work on the car. Initial Plan was to check drivers side driveshaft, and find the creaking i have coming from the drivers side brakes.

I needed to check engine oil levels, so off for a quick spurt. However then it happened, all power lost, with no trace of it coming back... OH-Noz! i screamed.

I took a look, only to find that the wire on the alternator had come loose again. Bugger i though... I tried to tighten it, however it didn't seem to want to tighten up.. After about an hours dicking about i became rather irate and slackened the bolt, and removed to cable...

Here is what i found

[BraindG]

Hmm, that doesn't look right i thought..

So i raked around my VBJ's goodie box and found a new altenator cable..

Snipped it down, snipped my cable to where the cable was flexy again, the cable from the old eye was rather hard, and brittle.. best replace it all i though...

The following photos should give you a clue to what i did to fix it...

[BraindG]

And then the fun started!

I tried to remove the nut of the alternator to place my newly replaced eye. But for love nor money i could not get the nut off. I took a closer look and found that the Old buggered eye was that loose, it was moving around, and sparking, this caused the outside nut to melt, and the thread!! which means there is no way on earth i can get the old nut off to get the eye on...

I ended up taking the alternator belts off, sliding the alternator back towards the cabin to get a "better" view of the carnage. That in itself took me donkeys. It ended up taking me nearly 7 hours :inquisiti :inquisiti

So, Mr Bodgit to the rescue. I found another eye ring attached it to the newly replaced eye, then I cut it so that it became a open loop. This allowed me to get it between both nuts and I was lucky to find that the second nut was capable, atleast for now of tightning up towards the other nut thats on the thread. However....... this morning on the way into work, it seems to have come loose.. crap.


So i need some kind of clamp, something i can tighten up over the two nuts that are on the alternator thread, and allow me to attach the eye loopy thingy to..

I popped into B&Q on the way to work, and picked up an earthing strap for pipes. But, im not to sure it will hold very well :embarasse

Anyone think of something that would do the job?