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bradc
29-08-2005, 10:19 AM
I'm looking at buying a manifold and throttle body for my VR-4 and the guy has sent me these photos. The manifold looks like the throttle body is simply at the wrong end for a 6a13tt, and it doesn't look anything like my engine. I thought it might be for a 6a12tt, but the guy absolutely insists they are for a Legnum VR-4. Thoughts?

bradc
29-08-2005, 10:23 AM
http://linux.idmoc.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/6A12TT-1.jpg
http://linux.idmoc.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10030/6A12TT.jpg

compare to this, it definately looks like this guy has 6a12tt parts from a legnum! wtf???

valmes
29-08-2005, 12:14 PM
Why would you think it is Twin Turbo? Legnums came with different engines... 6a12 NA is one of them.

AllBeItMine
29-08-2005, 12:17 PM
more importantly - why aer you buying a vr4 manifold for your vr4? it would be safe to assume you already have one...

unless you are building a V12?

Nick Mann
29-08-2005, 01:08 PM
That does look 6A12 ish doesn't it?

Have a look at BDA's profile for some manifold piccies. (You have to ignore the NOS jets though!! :rolleyes4 )

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/vbgarage.php?do=view&id=368

zentac
29-08-2005, 07:26 PM
Just to confirm the 6a12, 6a12TT, 6a13TT and GTO throttle bodies are all different, and none seem to fit the VR4 (except the 6a13TT of course)

bradc
29-08-2005, 08:15 PM
Valmes, I have another pic where you can see the writing on the top of the manifold, and you can make out the twin turbo intercooled writing, just like on the next pic I linked.

ABIM, I'm going to get my throttle body enlarged to 65mm and the manifold ported and customised with ram tubes, and I'm just trying to source some spare parts so my car doesn't have to go off the road for a while.

AllBeItMine
29-08-2005, 08:55 PM
Valmes, I have another pic where you can see the writing on the top of the manifold, and you can make out the twin turbo intercooled writing, just like on the next pic I linked.

ABIM, I'm going to get my throttle body enlarged to 65mm and the manifold ported and customised with ram tubes, and I'm just trying to source some spare parts so my car doesn't have to go off the road for a while.

and you are doing this before getting a boost controller, safc, upgrading your piping or doing your brakes why?

valmes
30-08-2005, 02:09 AM
You've said it was removed from a legnum?? /Hmmm
Than the only option is - 6a12 NA. (2L V6)
Although if it is from 7G Galant it could be 6a12TT(2L V6) as well.
Anyway those engines (6a12TT, 6G72) are turned 180 degrees (from 6a13TT)... hense your intake manifold is facing the "wrong" way as well /yes ...

bradc
30-08-2005, 08:23 AM
valmes, thats what I think it might be, but it definately says twin turbo intercooler on top. It must be from a 7G (I noticed the throttle body at the wrong end too)

ABIM, I'm doing the ground work first, the boost controller will be done after I've got lots of other stuff sorted. I intend to do the tubing and intercooler straight after I get the intake manifold and throttle body done. I'm not going to buy an SAFC, I'm thinking of an autronic SM2 at this stage.

AllBeItMine
30-08-2005, 11:25 AM
valmes, thats what I think it might be, but it definately says twin turbo intercooler on top. It must be from a 7G (I noticed the throttle body at the wrong end too)

ABIM, I'm doing the ground work first, the boost controller will be done after I've got lots of other stuff sorted. I intend to do the tubing and intercooler straight after I get the intake manifold and throttle body done. I'm not going to buy an SAFC, I'm thinking of an autronic SM2 at this stage.

well if you are going to get serious you should consider just getting an 85mm throttle body from trademe. they sell generic ones which can be ally welded in place or welded to a flange which can then be bolted up.

still seems like a weird place to start modding to me. the throttle body is the biggest part of the piping. its not the bottle neck. at a stretch i would suggest doing the cams before the TB and even the turbos!

bradc
30-08-2005, 11:58 AM
The reason I was thinking of getting the throttle body done is because if I get the turbos to intercooler tubing done in 2.25-2.5" before the join, then 3" (76mm) the whole way from the join back up to the throttle body, it would only seem logical to increase the size of the throttle body. I need to go down to Lance one of these days and ask him to price up a complete tubing setup.

Another option with throttle bodies is to wait until I get an ECU and get a dual throttle body. RPW seem to love modifying throttle bodies, and definately recommend I get something done. Here are some of their pages about it

http://www.rpw.com.au/Performance%20Upgrades/Mitsubishi/FTO/FTO%206A12/fto101tb.htm
http://www.rpw.com.au/Performance%20Upgrades/Mitsubishi/Magna/Magna%20TE%20-%20TJ/Magna101tb.htm
http://www.rpw.com.au/Products/Intake%20Systems/V6%20Manifold%20Kits.htm
http://www.rpw.com.au/Products/Intake%20Systems/Single%20TB.htm

I simply don't know enough about cams to really comment, I understand the concepts of course, but I don't know anything about how good our standard cams are.

I'm definately intending on changing the turbos at some point, probably to TD04's like Valmes.

AllBeItMine
30-08-2005, 10:32 PM
okay - well think about this when you are doing your throttle body... how big is the inlet manifold internally? are you going to make up a new plenum?

the piping is easiest done by yourself. you get the bends from ullrich aluminium and join them with samco or alloy welds. i have a mate who does alloy welds and intercoolers are cheap on trademe.

as far as cams go - i can talk to you about whats best, if you are going for a turbo upgrade and doing a full ecu, getting the cams will probably be one of the best upgrades you will do. think in the region of 20-25% power increase.

if you are going to do the turbos as well, it suggest you make a list. put everything down on the list you want then take it to somebody like Edgells and get them to fill in the blanks, they might say something like - well, for those mods you are going to need a Fuel Pressure Regulator for example. Then put your mods in order, then put prices next to your mods and time.

Then you will know how far you want to go. otherwise you might find you have nice big piping but its too big for your little turbos and you can't afford to upgrade them.

AllBeItMine
30-08-2005, 10:39 PM
okay - well think about this when you are doing your throttle body... how big is the inlet manifold internally? are you going to make up a new plenum?

the piping is easiest done by yourself. you get the bends from ullrich aluminium and join them with samco or alloy welds. i have a mate who does alloy welds and intercoolers are cheap on trademe.

as far as cams go - i can talk to you about whats best, if you are going for a turbo upgrade and doing a full ecu, getting the cams will probably be one of the best upgrades you will do. think in the region of 20-25% power increase.

if you are going to do the turbos as well, it suggest you make a list. put everything down on the list you want then take it to somebody like Edgells and get them to fill in the blanks, they might say something like - well, for those mods you are going to need a Fuel Pressure Regulator for example. Then put your mods in order, then put prices next to your mods and time.

Then you will know how far you want to go. otherwise you might find you have nice big piping but its too big for your little turbos and you can't afford to upgrade them.

oh and EDIT: the reason RPW go on so much about throttle bodies is because most of the engines on those pages links above are NA. they need all the flow help they can get. you wouldn't put quad throttle bodies on a 6A13tt for example. so yeah. make sure you are reading up on info specifically for turbos 1200hp GTR skylines only use 100mm throttle bodies...

bradc
31-08-2005, 09:33 AM
I'm going to get the manifold and throttle body made up at the same time, so they are perfectly suited for each other. I think that a throttle body, manifold and insulating gasket would help quite a bit, especially if I intend to modify the car further.

I know someone who owns an engineering place literally right next to ullrich aluminium that has offered to do it all for me at a very good price. I thought I'd ask Lance as well.

In regards to cams, when should I do it? After turbos and ecu, or before? And how much am I looking to spend?

I've already put my list down, it looks like I'm going to spend $6000 at this stage, and that is without a price for the ecu. I've been talking to edgells about the autronic sm2, hopefully they'll get back to me soon with a price. I'm sure I will need a fuel pressure regulator, I've got one of those down already.

My car is 154kw at the wheels, my first goal is 214kw at the wheels, simply because I have a dyno plot of an R34 GT-R Vspec II N1 that reaches 214kw at the wheels. I know it is a dumb goal, but that is my goal. That is probably around 300kw at the flywheel.

AllBeItMine
31-08-2005, 09:41 AM
well. $6000 + the ECU you can bloody well afford some proffesional advice then! haha. I think you need to show your wallet at the door just to get to talk to the dudes at edgells. but they will definitely know more than me.

put it this way - you can't really do the turbos without the ECU, you cant really do the cams (and make the most of them) without the ECU, hell - with your mods you will be bouncing off the fuel cut soon anyway so i would go the ECU next and get it tuned to 15psi - then bolt new turbos on, cams, injectors, fuel pump, manifold, piping and get it tuned again. but hey - thats just me.

anyway - i will be watching eagerly. make sure in take lots of pics when stuff gets interesting!

bradc
31-08-2005, 10:00 AM
I see no point in going with an ecu yet, simply because it will need to be retuned as I get various things done. The ecu and turbos are the absolute last thing I intend to do to the car.

I can't really afford it all at once, I think that over the course of the next year I will have everything done apart from the ecu and turbos. I intend to concentrate on the ground work first, things like all the tubing, big intercooler, heads ported, manifold and throttle body done, all gauges, air filters (yes 2, like you see), fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator. It looks like I need to get cams done as well, I have no idea how much they will cost, as well as ecu and turbos.

Who should I talk to about cams? I think Ohlsens would be a good option with virtually everything.

You See
31-08-2005, 10:27 AM
Why not go for a piggy back computer? ...at least this way you can adjust the necessary upgrades to prevent detonation, and if it's gonna be approx 1-2 years, you can always sell it off if you decide to go for a full ECU replacement. :smug:

Louis
31-08-2005, 10:36 AM
Could be from a mitsy GTO VR4, which is a twin turbo and has the inlet on the opposite to the galant legnum vr4, might still be useful though as there were 3litre versions.

bradc
31-08-2005, 10:40 AM
I don't think there is any need for a piggyback at this stage, all the mods I'm focusing on are simply reducing restrictions in the design, I don't even intend to up the boost until I get an ECU.

Louis, you might be right there. It doesn't actually matter any more because I've bought a complete engine now anyway, but the interesting discussion is where I should spend my money.

You See
31-08-2005, 10:48 AM
I don't think there is any need for a piggyback at this stage, all the mods I'm focusing on are simply reducing restrictions in the design, I don't even intend to up the boost until I get an ECU.

If you reduce the restrictions, you'll naturally increase power n/a and boost.
More boost = More fuel = More Power
More boost > Fuel = Boost cut
Tho...
Crazy boost + Crazy Fuel + Standard internals = KaBAM!!
Happy moddingggg :chugchug:

bradc
31-08-2005, 10:59 AM
Of course I'm going to get more power and more fuel, and maybe an increase in boost, but I doubt I'll see fuel cut. If I do, then I will sort it out, but I don't think it will happen on what I intend to do.

AllBeItMine
31-08-2005, 10:57 PM
you should talk to kelford cams about cam shafts and head work.

the cams would be re-grinds of your existings ones and only cost you around $600 all up.

TTV6VR4
31-08-2005, 11:51 PM
Just out of curisoty would a stock 6A13TT engine be able to handle 500-550HP or would you need to go to forged internals?, if say you had bigger turbos, basically everything else modified but the engine?.

valmes
01-09-2005, 02:09 AM
It should hold for some(!) time with a good tune...

enigma
01-09-2005, 06:29 AM
If you reduce the restrictions, you'll naturally increase power n/a and boost.
More boost = More fuel = More Power
More boost > Fuel = Boost cut
Tho...
Crazy boost + Crazy Fuel + Standard internals = KaBAM!!
Happy moddingggg :chugchug:

You will need less fuel............I have taken 23% out and it runs so much better now! Without fuelling you are wasting valuable ponies!

bradc
01-09-2005, 07:57 AM
ABIM, thanks for that, I'll keep their name down. What sort of things should I say to them?

TTV6VR4, I think that without upping to boost too much the internals should be able to survive fine, remember a few people have 400hp or more and have been running nitrous without any issues.

Dave, ultimately an engine making 400hp with a 12:1 AFR will consume more power than an engine which makes 280hp with 10:1 AFR

AllBeItMine
01-09-2005, 10:46 AM
kelford cams will have predefined grinds setup. think of it as getting a key cut. they use a master key and grind the blank (your stock cam) of it. so you just need to ask them what profiles they have available for your engine and if they match up with how much power you are looking for, the RPM range you want the power to be in. what your daily driving expectations will be etc etc.

most performance cams will either increase the lift, or extend the duration that the valve is open. both of these increase the time the valve is open meaning more flow. but when you start talking a total duration of over 280 degrees, the valve starts to be open longer than just the piston suction stroke and starts being open during the piston compression stroke as well.

this is great for top end power, but you get what is generally referred to as a lumpy idle and not terribly great low down performance.

however - i have seen a before and after dyno of an evo 8 where the only thing that was done was the cams where updated to HKS 286 spec and the ECU tuned to suit the new cams and the power figures at the wheels increased by 44 killowatts.

bradc
01-09-2005, 11:10 AM
A lumpy idle doesn't concern me, but I'm concerned about keeping performance where it is at 2500rpm, as well as an increase in power above 4000rpm, hmmmm sounds like I need mivec! I've sent them an email, I'll wait for them to get back to me.

You See
01-09-2005, 11:17 AM
mmm..Mivec turbo.....just like the EVO IX's.... /yes

bradc
01-09-2005, 11:23 AM
yep, but I've got 2 more cylinders and 1 more turbo!

A set of 6A12 Mivec heads will supposedly fit onto a 6A13TT, you'd need an ECU of course.

You See
01-09-2005, 11:27 AM
oh oh oh...I WAAAAANT!!

bradc
01-09-2005, 11:32 AM
you have an ECU already of course, but does it support mivec control? if not you might need a seperate mivec/vtec controller.

http://www.rpw.com.au/Performance%20Upgrades/Mitsubishi/FTO/FTO%206A12/fto101.htm

You See
01-09-2005, 11:38 AM
hhmmm....now lets add that on my to do list...
101: Mivec heads

AllBeItMine
01-09-2005, 07:37 PM
A lumpy idle doesn't concern me, but I'm concerned about keeping performance where it is at 2500rpm, as well as an increase in power above 4000rpm, hmmmm sounds like I need mivec! I've sent them an email, I'll wait for them to get back to me.

well changing your turbos to TD04-13g's is really going to screw your performance at 2500rpm. Probably hit full boost at 3500-3700 rpm. thing is with cams setup to match, you can move your peak power right back into the rev range to match the turbos better and have the car singing at 8000rpm.

bradc
01-09-2005, 08:22 PM
You're probably right, I don't want power at 8000rpm, I don't want to rev the engine beyond 7000rpm, so the cams probably don't need to be as aggressive as what they could be. The reason why I'm concerned about 2500rpm is that I drive about 80km every day at about 110kph, which is 2500rpm in my car. If the car has a little less power at 2500rpm it doesn't matter that much, but I couldn't take a big hit in fuel economy.

All that I want out of turbos is to maintain boost of about 15-16psi the whole way through the rev range. I know that the current turbos won't be able to do that, so thats why I was thinking of changing. The TD04 idea is because they should be fairly cheap to find from a Subaru or Evo. The problem is finding 2 that match.

I guess I could just run a stock turbo off each cylinder, TD03 turbos are very easy to find for cheap ;)

Kenneth
01-09-2005, 09:19 PM
For mivec control, you just need a RPM switch AFAIK. There are lots of VTEC (same thing as mivec) controllers out there that would work a treat. also, most after-market computers (and heaps of piggy backs from what I have seen) will do mivec/vtec control.

If you are worried about fuel consumption, WTF are you doing modding your car this seriously????

Go buy a 1.3L honda city as a daily driver or something... even my nanna (on the pension) can afford to run one of them. :joker:

TTV6VR4
01-09-2005, 11:13 PM
yep, but I've got 2 more cylinders and 1 more turbo!

A set of 6A12 Mivec heads will supposedly fit onto a 6A13TT, you'd need an ECU of course.

What is the advantage of doing this???

Kenneth
02-09-2005, 07:13 AM
you get 2 cam profiles to play with.
you can set your low speed profile so that you get nice bottom end and idle well, but then have the high speed profile kick in which will let you rev out and make big HP at high RPM.

If I could I would get the low speed profile ground the same as the standard profile on the VR-4, then get a wild grind on the high speed cam.

I wonder if it would be better to switch by boost rather than RPM... that way with sufficient boost you could still be forcing air into the cylinders when the compression stroke begins. (like a miller cycle engine)


Brad:
On another note, it would be good to have the following info from your head/cams

1) Cam data (as much as possible really... the more the better)
2) valve measurements.

Why? because I have a engine simulator (software) and it would be interesting to see how well it works. could be useful

bradc
02-09-2005, 07:59 AM
Kenneth, the cams won't happen for a while, I need to spent about $3000 on other things for the car first, I still haven't bought tyres for my EVO 7 mags!

I'm concerned about fuel economy because of how much driving I do, when I buy an ecu I will run it with 2 maps, one that is tuned for cruising and one that is tuned for max power and boost. With the cam I guess I'll have to make a bit of a compromise, maybe I'll hold off on the cams for a while until I decide to get mivec heads and cams installed.

Kenneth
02-09-2005, 08:34 AM
Kenneth, the cams won't happen for a while, I need to spent about $3000 on other things for the car first, I still haven't bought tyres for my EVO 7 mags!


thats rather unobliging of you Brad....

bradc
02-09-2005, 10:48 AM
haha I know! The tyres should be soon, I promise.

dickytim
03-09-2005, 07:00 AM
The 6a12TT is that way around isn't it ?

The opposite way to our engines.

bradc
03-09-2005, 07:45 AM
Yeah it is, thats why I thought something was up.

enigma
03-09-2005, 07:48 AM
If it fits, it looks ideal for a single turbo conversion!

BIG turbo sits above gearbox, MAF sat on the front with filter and then pipe to the 'wrong side' of the intercooler (right) and then up the left hand side of the bay and straight in to the wrong sided manifold! :thumbsup:

TTV6VR4
03-09-2005, 10:35 PM
The 6a12TT is that way around isn't it ?

The opposite way to our engines.

They will sit the other way around so it wouldn't work would it???, sounds like a waste of money to me anyway, just spend the money on some cams and stuff like that.

ako
04-09-2005, 10:47 AM
Thats a rather stupid comment.

Cams etc: small gains.

Big turbo: Big gains. Most of the evo boys dont bother with cams etc until they find screwing more boost in wont achieve much more. Plus the amount of $$ youd spend putting them in (may as well do cambelt etc while you're there, engine has to come out anyway) you'd be much better off spending it on your huffers anyway.


Back to the topic at hand - Its a 6A12TT manifold, I've got two of them sitting in my garage right now.

Does the 6A13 mani have the dual runner setup as well though, just out of curiosity?

And Dave - Yes, it should bolt straight on, the engines share the same block. Dont know if the TPS and so on will work with the 6A13 ECU though.

valmes
24-11-2007, 04:32 PM
Just to confirm the 6a12, 6a12TT, 6a13TT and GTO throttle bodies are all different, and none seem to fit the VR4 (except the 6a13TT of course)

Throttle body from Euro Spec Galant 6a13 SOHC NA is bigger (at around ~67~70 mm) and fits our stock intake manifold.

I got mine from 2.5 NA 6g73 Diamante (Magna in some markets)...

Paul C
25-11-2007, 11:36 AM
Valmes do you no what the standard throttle body can be bored out too. I used to have a bmw and theres a guy over here who bores throttlebodies. When he did mine it was good for an extra 6bhp across the range. i spoke with him last year and he was up for have ago at ours but i never followed it up. If there is alot to gain from doing this then i will think about contacting him again.

Paul C
25-11-2007, 11:46 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-Mitsubishi-Montero-Sport-Throttle-Body-97-01-3-0L_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33558QQihZ012QQitemZ 220174867443QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD2V
does this look the same as ours?

zentac
25-11-2007, 11:47 AM
The standard throttle body is 61mm and can be bored to 63mm, some models appear to come with 63mm as standard and can be bored to 65mm but unless your running similar size piping for the rest of the system theres no point.

Turbo_Steve
27-11-2007, 11:04 PM
I'm not sure I see the point?
Standard Evo and Impreza throttle bodies will comfortably run 300Kw. So will the std cams. Yes, better cams will give you more power, but they WILL cost you driveability. If you're just looking for more power on a budget, then a pair of TD04s, ECU and possibly injectors and fuelling should do the job and leave it driveable. Peak boost IS going to move up...but good mapping is going to keep your economy, and should negate the impact of this change.

Brad, put the ECU on first. I know it's expensive, but it's adjustable, so each successive change won't damage your engine. Any other mod needs the ECU to protect and / or take advantage of it.

Once you've got your bolt on bits and your ECU on, get it dyno'd / take it for a drive. If it goes like you want it to, you've saved yourself a fortune. If it doesn't pull the motor, get the manifold, heads and cams done, and potentially consider going forged whilst you're at it.

Yes, spending more will get you more refinement, but a 2.0litre stroked to 2.5 4-pot will easily EASILY make 400bhp (300kw) on it's factory cams, manifolds and even fuel pump + injectors in some cases. There is no debate that they could have driven more nicely with additional modifications such as cams...but why spend the extra until you know you need it, especially with the 6A13TT which is such unknown territory.

My VG30DETT went from 330bhp (246Kw) to 520bhp (387Kw) at the flywheel with turbos, ecu, injectors, exhaust and airfilter and some MUCH bigger intercoolers.
I left the ECU too late in the process and had to live for months with a car that drove like a bag of crap.

Doing the ECU first allows you to assess the impact of each of your mods at each stage of the process.
Yes, you have to remap it, but it's not that hard to alter the map once it's good, and it's a brilliant learning experience.

Kenneth
27-11-2007, 11:19 PM
This is an old thread.

If you do a search you will see that Brad DID do the ECU setup first and is essentially maxing out his injectors/turbos putting out about 225AWKW.

Turbo_Steve
27-11-2007, 11:24 PM
In fact, it's worth adding the following:

The VG had twin inlet manifolds, which does skew the result compared to the 6A13
However, I've also had the following:
SR20DET: 420bhp (313kw) airfilter, exhaust, ECU, injectors, fuel pump, intercooler. Ran fine until it bent a rod, even drove nicely. monster turbo.
SR20DET: Same thing but stroked with forged bits. Same monster turbo (GT40R). 480bhp (357kw) same mods as above. Ran fine, but ate gearboxes.
EJ20T: 382bhp (284Kw) TD06, injectors, fuel pump, exhaust, airfilter, ECU, std internals, charge cooler. Drove horribly, gearboxes would last less than a year.
EJ25T: 490bhp (365kw) with std internals and 2.0L WRX heads, Massive intercooler, big injectors, fuel pumps, ECU, exhaust, airfilter, GT42R based hybrid, custom exhaust headers. New gearbox every week: far too much torque.
EJ25T: 427bhp (318kw) with forged everything 440 injectors + 5th injector, fuel pump, airfilter, exhaust, ECU, weird HKS hybrid thing from Japan.
Same engine as above with 285 cams: 481bhp (358Kw) but didn't make full boost until 4800rpms....rather than 3200 on std cams.

Turbo_Steve
27-11-2007, 11:25 PM
I did a search, but didn't find that. Oops.
And after all that typing! D'OH!

Nice output for std kit. Bigger intercooler, turbos and injectors and he should reach his target, then?

Kenneth
27-11-2007, 11:30 PM
I did a search, but didn't find that. Oops.
And after all that typing! D'OH!

Yep, it was a bit of a waste of time eh? ;) (done it myself though... :P )

You should be able to see the dates the posts were made... this one was started in 2005.

Probably because you are not a full member and don't see some of the detailed threads involving the year his car was off the road getting all the mods done.

Turbo_Steve
27-11-2007, 11:37 PM
:D Are you in sales? My membership is going to be my Christmas present...which unfortunately means I have to be a good boy until Christmas day:- You'll have to bear with me until then. Sorry. Maybe I can do some...ahm....persuading.

Kenneth
27-11-2007, 11:52 PM
:D Are you in sales? My membership is going to be my Christmas present...which unfortunately means I have to be a good boy until Christmas day:- You'll have to bear with me until then. Sorry. Maybe I can do some...ahm....persuading.

No, not a salesman as I dislike telling lies too much :P

To be frank, I think a membership would be the right thing for you. You are obviously interested in the workings of things and put time into finding answers, which you are willing to share. It has come to my attention a couple of times that you have written a lengthy post such as the one above, only to have essentially repeated some information that is already present elsewhere on the forums... This doesn't hurt anyone of course, but it may save you some time if you can search thoroughly through the wealth of information in the members area.

The members area isn't supposed to be a lockup for all our information, but it does tend to be easier to wade through to get the information you want. :)

bradc
28-11-2007, 06:42 AM
yeah check out my gallery, it lists all the mods done to the car