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View Full Version : Ferodo Or EBC?



AeroVR4
04-09-2005, 12:38 AM
Hi there,
I am looking for brake upgrade both pads and disc.
Used EBC before but saw them selling ferodo in Repco so wanna try this brand.

Anyone can provide so prons and cons over those two brands?

Cheers

You See
04-09-2005, 12:49 AM
Ferodo DS2500's are the ones to go for, I'll be getting these in the near future...Race Brakes in Mt Eden do these and they know what they're talking about. These are the same pads used in the HSV's and FPV's, they must be good if they can stop those 2 tonne trucks. /Hmmm

Gly
05-09-2005, 07:44 AM
i have ferodos GP2s im my legnum, i HATE them,
there stopping power is all good, but dusty as, not cool when you have white wheels,

Kieran
05-09-2005, 08:23 AM
[Unconvinced by the magical DS2500s myself. When I bought the car off of Nick, it had a set fitted. They'd been put on in may, and had done one track day and a few thousand miles by mid July when they had worn down to bare metal (and there weren't no wear indicators either!! :rolleyes4 /help ). Stopping power didn't seem great in comparrison, my Black Diamond predator pads feel close in terms of power, but they do need significant warming up though.

Despite the horror stories, I may give EBC a chance next time. My other considerations are Tar-Ox or Mintex. /Hmmm

i3ooyah
05-09-2005, 09:58 AM
i have ferodos GP2s im my legnum, i HATE them,
there stopping power is all good, but dusty as, not cool when you have white wheels,

what gly said, dust all ova the place, gotta clean them white wheels atleast once a week if u want them looking good

Wodjno
05-09-2005, 03:43 PM
Haven't had Ferodo's on the VR4 so can't comment on them /Hmmm . But EBC turbogroove discs mated with EBC redstuff ceramics are the ones for me../yes: They seem to run a lot cooler so don't crack up the disc so easily .. Poor cold braking but i never found this a problem.. Aslong as you don't boot the car from cold up to a junction, leave the braking late and hope it to stop in time, you'll be ok. rolleyes4They are the only brakes that i have ever used that actually get better the hotter they get, and even when theres smoke coming off them there still isn't any fade.. There quite a noisy set up when there cold and actually sounds like metal on metal until you warm them up, then they go silent and start stopping you as thou you've suddenly had a elephant tied to th back of your car :kiss:..I was told to steer away from EBC redstuffs by a few Members as they said they had been known for the friction material to come away from the backing. I think if this has happened it must be a 1 off or just a few of a batch, as if it was happening all the time they would not still be on the market.. Thats my finding anyway, but each to there own .. Good luck in your choice.. :thumbsup:

Spirit
05-09-2005, 06:20 PM
DS2500's for me :thumbsup: Yes they are dusty, but who gives a damn as long as they work......and having used them on several track days and 14 laps of the Nurburgring I think I can say I have pushed them hard.

HJM
05-09-2005, 06:34 PM
DS2500's for me :thumbsup: Yes they are dusty, but who gives a damn as long as they work......and having used them on several track days and 14 laps of the Nurburgring I think I can say I have pushed them hard.

Yep - have to agree - dirty but they work :thumbsup:

Wodjno
06-09-2005, 09:39 PM
Hmmm.. I thought this might turn into a interesting debate.. I know it'sbeen done before, but times are a changing .. :inquisiti

Kieran
06-09-2005, 11:32 PM
Yeah - EBC were took over recently, didn't I read somewhere?
:inquisiti

Wodjno
06-09-2005, 11:43 PM
Yeah - EBC were took over recently, didn't I read somewhere?
:inquisiti

Is that Good or Bad ??
:inquisiti

Does it mean there in Shoite.. /Hmmm

Or that they have a cracking product that others want in on ?? :inquisiti

Kieran
06-09-2005, 11:45 PM
Is that Good or Bad ??
:inquisiti

I think it was for the better. This was not long after the horror stories about the friction material on the greenstuffs de-laminating and breaking up, followed by EBC refusing to re-imburse customers.

They got taken over (I think!!) and things have improved.

Wodjno
06-09-2005, 11:48 PM
I think it was for the better. This was not long after the horror stories about the friction material on the greenstuffs de-laminating and breaking up, followed by EBC refusing to re-imburse customers.

They got taken over (I think!!) and things have improved.

Thats what i thought ..

When i had purchsed my Red Stuff ceramics.. These were the ones i were told that had the problem not the Greenstuffs..
/yes

I-S
06-09-2005, 11:50 PM
Andy Freeman, owner of EBC has posted a few times at the Parkers forums. Seems to know his stuff and also commented that they'd changed a few things because of problems. Some pads they'd gone for low-dust, but in the end found that it was too much of a compromise.

Smokinmasta2
07-09-2005, 02:08 PM
Only way to tell for yourself is to try for yourself. Everyone like 'their brand'
or their drive to work, what works for one does not always work for another.
Plus getting any of this lot to change brands is like trying to get the missus to change her mind!!!! :inquisiti

I have EBC red stuff ceramic pads and 10 groove 3G (by Brembo) and have found them excellent. Only problem i think is a prob with the pad material being a little hard on the discs.
In reality the only real improvemnt on you will get on braking, will be bigger discs/4 pots etc - simply physics...........
Better pads will only really reduce fade a little and give better initial bite.
Braking power could just as easily be improved with new fluid, replace std pads where needed, and new hoses where needed!! - would save us a fortune in cosmetic discs and fancy pads!!!
Consensus is, DS2500 work well with heavy cars
EBC work with better bite but less longevity

I met a chap last week, with a 450bhp EVO VII who said he would never use DS2500 again - 'horses for courses' and all that!!!

Smokin..............

pezza
07-09-2005, 03:16 PM
Upon Smokin's and Wodj's recommendation I tried RED stuff ceramic and they seem very effective..really do like these.. I did have DS2500s before and these were superb too if a lil dusty :inquisiti

I have had these EBC pads for a couple of months now and the wear seems good, but then I drive like an angel /yes

I think these pads are quite hard on the discs, however and I do get a drone (louder than the Ferodos) after repeated long high speed braking, with the national groove discs.

Price wise they are very similar....?? IIRC

I think thats its def worth trying both...

Wodjno
07-09-2005, 03:59 PM
Upon Smokin's and Wodj's recommendation I tried RED stuff ceramic and they seem very effective..really do like these.. I did have DS2500s before and these were superb too if a lil dusty :inquisiti

I have had these EBC pads for a couple of months now and the wear seems good, but then I drive like an angel /yes

I think these pads are quite hard on the discs, however and I do get a drone (louder than the Ferodos) after repeated long high speed braking, with the national groove discs.

Price wise they are very similar....?? IIRC

I think thats its def worth trying both...

If they still droning .. /Hmmm They not warmed up yet . :evil2: . Once they are warm there as quiet as a mouse.. /yes

ghanda
07-09-2005, 09:17 PM
Interesting.
A very good friend of mine with a 350bhp Impreza wagon is doing some research work for EBC. His DS2500's after 2K miles and NO track days looked like this:

http://justgofaster.com/gallery/gallery/docjock/modifications/wheels_suspension_brakes/pads%20001.jpg


Shocking, eh?

He's currently running EBC yellows up front (unfortunately not available for the VR4) and Ceramic reds on the rear.
His verdict?
"Stopping from cold is good, when warm it is at least as good as Pagid RS14s "

He's actually surprised! EBC HAD a bead rep in the past, but I think they're now taking stoping seriously.
Reds for me I think

Smokinmasta2
07-09-2005, 09:42 PM
Yellows are quite hard i found on the FTO - you should be able get for VR4 as the FTO GPX and GPvR use the same pads as pre-face VR4's???
Think the 3G discs might be a bit soft for yellows - might be worth a look.
Any ideas where i can get my discs skimmed BTW anyone?


Smokin.............

Kieran
07-09-2005, 09:53 PM
Interesting.
A very good friend of mine with a 350bhp Impreza wagon is doing some research work for EBC. His DS2500's after 2K miles and NO track days looked like this:

Shocking, eh?

He's currently running EBC yellows up front (unfortunately not available for the VR4) and Ceramic reds on the rear.
His verdict?
"Stopping from cold is good, when warm it is at least as good as Pagid RS14s "

He's actually surprised! EBC HAD a bead rep in the past, but I think they're now taking stoping seriously.
Reds for me I think


I think you've convinced me too. As I said, after 1 track day and 3 months driving, the DS2500s on my VR-4 were down to the metal backing pad. I am most unimpressed and will not replace them. Hell, the cheapo black diamond predator pads I stuck on as an emergency measure are just as good!

EBC pads for me too, but I think I'll pass on their discs. Not a fan of blind drilling - just somewhere else for brake dust to accumulate. I had good results with a set of Rossini Discs, so I think I'll go that route again.

Wodjno
07-09-2005, 10:37 PM
but I think I'll pass on their discs. Not a fan of blind drilling - just somewhere else for brake dust to accumulate. .

Please Explain .. :inquisiti :huh:

I-S
07-09-2005, 10:44 PM
Blind Drilling is the method that EBC use on their discs, as fitted to K's car. The hole is not drilled all the way through the disc, but rather just into the disc material creating a "dimple" rather than a hole.

The benefit is that the disc is supposed not to crack from it as it does from a through-drilled hole, whilst still providing the benefits of giving outgassing somewhere to go and providing some "sweep" of the pad (just as grooves do). However, K's discs are cracking from the dimples anyway...

Wodjno
07-09-2005, 10:59 PM
Blind Drilling is the method that EBC use on their discs, as fitted to K's car. The hole is not drilled all the way through the disc, but rather just into the disc material creating a "dimple" rather than a hole.

The benefit is that the disc is supposed not to crack from it as it does from a through-drilled hole, whilst still providing the benefits of giving outgassing somewhere to go and providing some "sweep" of the pad (just as grooves do). However, K's discs are cracking from the dimples anyway...

AHA ! Thanks for clearing that up.. :thumbsup: I have EBC Turbo Groove Discs(with the dimples) on my car Mated with Red Stuff Ceramics.. They have very small surface cracks in but no cracks all the way through which i have had with completely drilled discs.. I think the Dre Stuff Ceramics seem to produce less heat, so not cracking the discs up quite as much as other pads.. /Hmmm

I-S
07-09-2005, 11:28 PM
All pads will produce the same amount of heat for the same stop. The (physical) law of conservation of energy says that must be so.

Wodjno
07-09-2005, 11:51 PM
All pads will produce the same amount of heat for the same stop. The (physical) law of conservation of energy says that must be so.

:inquisiti /Hmmm :rolleyes4 :huh2: /wall :huh: :undecided /dunce /duh :thinking: :uhoh2: :anxious: /JawDroppi :vogel: :uhoh: :dizzy2: :| Hmmmmm !

Kieran
08-09-2005, 12:02 AM
Depends on the friction coefficient, and how effective the pad is at heat dissipation, Issac. You're not wrong in so far that you cannot destroy energy, so the same amount of forward inertia will be converted to heat/noise/etc, but all pads vary slightly.

Closer to the mark, I think what Glenn is getting at is that whilst say EBC greens and Reds in a VR-4 will convert roughly the same amount of forward effort into friction/heat, the way the pad deals with the heat will be different. The 'Red' compound may be better at conducting the heat away from the pad. Or it may cool itself by being a more 'Dusty' pad, etc etc, and therefore not overheat & crack the disc as quickly. Sure, if you drive with a foot on the brakes all the time, you'll get the same issue - the heat buildup will overwhelm the pad compound and the braking surface of the pad will get hotter and hotter.


.....Hoping this is not all a load of Moo-Poo I've just typed?!?! :embarasse :inquisiti

Wodjno
08-09-2005, 07:25 AM
Depends on the friction coefficient, and how effective the pad is at heat dissipation, Issac. You're not wrong in so far that you cannot destroy energy, so the same amount of forward inertia will be converted to heat/noise/etc, but all pads vary slightly.

Closer to the mark, I think what Glenn is getting at is that whilst say EBC greens and Reds in a VR-4 will convert roughly the same amount of forward effort into friction/heat, the way the pad deals with the heat will be different. The 'Red' compound may be better at conducting the heat away from the pad. Or it may cool itself by being a more 'Dusty' pad, etc etc, and therefore not overheat & crack the disc as quickly. Sure, if you drive with a foot on the brakes all the time, you'll get the same issue - the heat buildup will overwhelm the pad compound and the braking surface of the pad will get hotter and hotter.


.....Hoping this is not all a load of Moo-Poo I've just typed?!?! :embarasse :inquisiti

Cheers Kieren.. Thats roughly what i was trying to bring accross when i said
:inquisiti /Hmmm :rolleyes4 :huh2: /wall :huh: :undecided /dunce /duh :thinking: :uhoh2: :anxious: /JawDroppi :vogel: :uhoh: :dizzy2: :| Hmmmmm !

bernmc
08-09-2005, 09:34 AM
My used brembos's came with a front set of worn DS2500's, and they seem to be doing the same thing as the pic earlier in the thread - though not as bad - crumbling around the edges. A nice bloke off MLR has given me a used set of red stuff pads for the rears, and they look perfect, apart from being half worn. I'll be using both sets of pads initially to do the conversion, so I'll see what they like - I've heard that the EBC's are a bit noisy!

Used EBC stuff on my jag and the sheepmobile. Experience there was that the EBC pads chewed up the softer standard discs very quickly, so it's important to mate them up with an upgraded disk.

Wodjno
08-09-2005, 09:52 AM
My used brembos's came with a front set of worn DS2500's, and they seem to be doing the same thing as the pic earlier in the thread - though not as bad - crumbling around the edges. A nice bloke off MLR has given me a used set of red stuff pads for the rears, and they look perfect, apart from being half worn. I'll be using both sets of pads initially to do the conversion, so I'll see what they like - I've heard that the EBC's are a bit noisy!

Used EBC stuff on my jag and the sheepmobile. Experience there was that the EBC pads chewed up the softer standard discs very quickly, so it's important to mate them up with an upgraded disk.

Mating them with the right discs is definitely got to be done otherwise you wil be going through more sets of discs than pads.. /yes
The EBC Turbo Groove seem to be a good choice, you can see in the pics what they now look like after taking a set of Red Stuff Ceramics down to the Metal. /Hmmm I think they have bared up well.. /yes I will certainly be replacing mine with the same as.. :thumbsup:

I-S
08-09-2005, 11:05 AM
Indeed, different pads will deal with heat differently and operate differently at different temperatures. However, stopping from 100mph, your car has x amount of energy (mvv/2 (mass times speed times speed divided by two)) and your brakes will convert all of this into heat, both in your brake discs and pads and also in the tyres. The Redstuff pads probably work better at higher temperatures than the greenstuff pads because they're designed for faster road/track use than the more road-biased greenstuff.

colVR4
08-09-2005, 12:55 PM
I've just changed my pads to the EBC redstuff, they were cheaper than the Ferodo!! The EBC pads have great stopping power when they warm up and I can get the ABS cutting in when I stomp on the brakes even in the dry. A little noisy at first, but like Glenn said, they soon quiet down when they warm up.

Wodjno
08-09-2005, 01:00 PM
I've just changed my pads to the EBC redstuff, they were cheaper than the Ferodo!! The EBC pads have great stopping power when they warm up and I can get the ABS cutting in when I stomp on the brakes even in the dry. A little noisy at first, but like Glenn said, they soon quiet down when they warm up.
Good choice .. Col.. :thumbsup:
One other thing i had forgot to mention about the EBC TGDiscs and Red Stuff ceramic Pads is that i have never had 1 slightest bit of brake fade.. :smug:
And to me that is the most important, compared to dust and noise and price .. /yes

D.J
21-09-2005, 04:29 PM
mintex m1177's and just watch the disc disappear.

bernmc
03-10-2005, 09:25 AM
Anyone have suggestions on the best (cheapest) place to buy pads for brembo calipers? Best I've found so far is Camskill who'll do a set of DS2500's for 149 delivered, or Mintex 1155's for 105 delivered.

Rally205
03-10-2005, 01:25 PM
Bernard,

Which make/material would you prefer? I know a little man who can brakes pretty cheaply.


Marcus

bernmc
03-10-2005, 02:41 PM
Probably the ferodos.... I'm a bit poor after my brake escapades, and potentially even poorer when I find some ABS sensors, which is why I was considering the mintex...

Spirit
03-10-2005, 07:09 PM
Bern

What's the part number for the DS2500's for the Brembos ?

Let me know and I will speak to my contact

Pete

bernmc
04-10-2005, 10:08 AM
pm'd you, pete.

Incidently, if anyone needs part numbers for pads for EVO-flavour brakes, this thread on MLR (http://lancerregister.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28257) has stacks of info.


FCP1334H F FERODO DS2500 17" TARMAC/STREET
FCP1282H R FERODO DS2500 17" TARMAC/STREET

bernmc
05-10-2005, 08:21 PM
Just to let you know, Alyn ('Stockcar') on MLR will do ferodo fronts for £135 delivered for MLR users - I'm not a member, I just post there occasionally and he was happy to do the deal for me. Best price I've found so far.

Spirit
05-10-2005, 08:23 PM
Bern

Sorry mate, was busy all day today so had no chance to make the call. Will try tomorrow :thumbsup:

Simon
06-10-2005, 12:01 PM
Ive had both EBC red and green stuff pads in the past and they are ok once they have temperature in them for road use BUT on track they are not as good as the Ferrodo pads....as long as you can live with the dust! /Steeringw

I-S
06-10-2005, 12:36 PM
Last week I won a set of front greenstuff pads, so once my Predators wear out I'll see how the greenstuff compare...