Brake rotors: Who do I believe!!?

[jaimz]

Hey everyone - I need your collective experience /help

I had new rotors put on my VR-4 a month ago by Pitstop Newmarket. They're the same ones both Freddy and i3ooyah have had fitted (and yeah... they are sexy! :smug: )
I know there's been some controversy over Lance and the guys at Pitstop... I've known Lance for many years (before he bought the business there), so am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt - but some things just don't stack up:

1) I paid $1500 for 4 new rotors and pads, but Freddy paid only $500 for front rotors in February. I asked Lance about this, but he said the prices have just 'gone up'. That's one hell of a price hike!! :inquisiti
2) Lance also said my front rotors were the biggest of 3 sizes for VR-4 in his DBA (Disc Brakes Australia) catalogue - hence the high price. Ron Millin at Ralliart (having my car serviced today) said there is only one size front rotor for 6A13tt VR-4s, and that I was fleeced by Pitstop. If anyone knows about these things he should right..? :inquisiti
3) The reason I had to replace ALL rotors and pads was because Pitstop said my rotors and pads were on minimum thickness, and were dangerously stuffed. I'd bought my car off the car-yard as a new import only 7000kms before that, and it would've had rotors checked and new pads put on as part of the VINZ cert right..? :inquisiti
4) The brakes just don't seem to be that much better than my old ('completely stuffed' ones). I mean... you'd notice a difference right..? :inquisiti Freddy said he hasn't noticed much of a difference... i3ooyah, have you..?

I'm not quite sure what I expect to gain by blurting all of this out... but it'd be great to get some thoughts on this - especially the facts about factory rotor sizes etc...

Thanks guys.

p.s. Freddy, bradc, and You See - great to meet you at the dyno day on Sat. You See - I'm super keen to see your car in action at the next dyno meet... sounds like a beast! :thumbsup:

[You See]

I'm looking for rotors at the moment too...i3ooyah recommended getting them from Znoelli in Manukau, I called them up and they said around $300-350 for fronts and the same for the rears, and if I get them both at the same time there's a 15% discount. Think I might go for these along with Ferodo pads and braided lines from Racebrakes. ...now I've gotta find someone reliable to install it.
Yeah, it was finally good to meet yourself and Freddy. Hopefully my car will be ready for next months power-run. ...seems like everyone has high expectations from my car....hope I don't disappoint too many people. :thumbsup:

[bradc]

It was good meeting you too, we just need to make you run next time!

I've been happy with Lance at pitstop, he seemed very nice and friendly to me, Freddy wasn't so impressed though.

I know Ron at Ralliart quite well, he's a great guy and I'm sure he will tell you the truth. Your brakes do look good though.

I was talking to Ohlsens today, I'm quite keen to take my car down there and tell him to get 200kw at the wheels out of it, with future provision for 250kw at the wheels. I think I'm going to take my car there for all performance work, and I'll continue to take my car to Mitsubishi in Newmarket for servicing. I'm going to try and take my car to as few people as possible.

[i3ooyah]

ohlsens is the best dude, hes been nothing but a good guy to me & even though hes a lil on the pricey side so said some people, hes always given me a good price and even done work and not charged me a cent.

as for the rotors, the best thing to do is get them cleaned and hpc coated as they rust b4 you put them in, which a 5year old could do. and yeah i definately noticed a difference, i ran them in with brand new standard pads for about 400km's, breaking early, not using to much pressure, etc then i gave them a thrashin to see how good they were and thats when i upgraded pads as well.

pitstop get there rotors from znoelli so you might as well go straight to the supplier and fit them yourself, the only reason i got pitstop to put them in is coz i lose motivation most of the time, lol

[jaimz]

Thanks for the feedback guys.
i3ooyah, I checked the Znoelli website (thanks for the tip), and their online price is about $240 less than pitstop charged me for the rotors. :furious3:
Quite a mate Lance turned out to be... I'm afraid I'm on Freddy's side now - I won't be going back... except to ask for the amount he overcharged me...

I get the feeling the pads they put on were *****e as well - they keep dropping their guts everywhere and, as mentioned before, don't seem to be making the most of the new rotors.

In other news: I'm happy with the service Ron McMillian (not Millin, as I quoted earlier :embarasse ) and the guys at Ralliart did on my car. They picked up a couple of things I didn't even ask them to look at including an airleak at the rubber pipe into the throttle body (right where you said yours keeps popping off Freddy - apparently there's an O-ring you have to be careful with in there), and a wrongly-sized replacement wheel nut which was causing the front-left wheel to flex.
Guess who put that on the car after they sheared the old one off..? /Hmmm

[Freddy]

Mate, you have paid nearly double what Booyah paid.$695.00 was his price.
Go here http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7227

[Freddy]

The only way to make these beasts stop hard is to go to four pot. My GTO had mitsi four pot calipers on the front. That car weighed 1750 kg and it stopped well. Shame they didnt continue the trend through to the VR4. Has anyone looked into GTO callipers as an option?

BTW, great to meet you guys on Sat. Great starting place to begin working on horsepower.

[Kenneth]

The only way to make these beasts stop hard is to go to four pot...

Not true!

The standard VR-4 brakes are actually pretty good. Change pads and fluid and you are away.

I drove a legnum with this done and found the difference astonishing when mashing the brake pedal.

Add to that some decent rotors and I you would never need anything better.

In fact, the guy that did Mals brakes (The legnum mentioned above) talked him out of buying 4/6 pots (denying himself income too) and offered him a money back gaurentee that with pads and fluid he would never be able to out-drive his brakes.

PS: you can only stop as fast as your tyres will let you no matter how good your brakes are. if your ABS is kicking in heaps, then its your tyres that are the problem.

[jaimz]

I'd like to retract a little on my last post.
Seems as though the prices on the Znoelli website a) don't include GST, and b) are well below recommended retail.
I was still ripped off, but not by as much as I thought.

The dude at Znoelli said as the company is growing, the rotors will become cheaper due to bulk importing etc (the opposite of what I was told by Pitstop), and that the online shop may close down sometime soon. So if you want some, get them online, and get them soon!

[AllBeItMine]

You wont notice much of a difference during normal driving. but after i ran mine in i went out on the motorway one night and tried to get them to stop working. i did 120kph->0 stops as hard as i could over and over again. i was actually beginning to feel really sick from teh g-forces. they work really well, dont grab at all as much as my factory ones did and the lucas pads don't fade like the old cardboard ones use to.

[i3ooyah]

haha yeah when i first ran them in i would brake late just to feel the g's :p

[jaimz]

Righto - some late braking for me then. :leer:

[Freddy]

Kenneth I have those brake mods done to my car, yet they still dont stop as hard as four pots do. You should drive a car with them installed, you will be converted.
Sorry for hijacking the thread Jaimz, good luck with your rebate.

[Kenneth]

Kenneth I have those brake mods done to my car, yet they still dont stop as hard as four pots do. You should drive a car with them installed, you will be converted.
Sorry for hijacking the thread Jaimz, good luck with your rebate.


Fair enough. I'll have to have a try then.

[jaimz]

No problems Freddy.
I've calmed down a bit since my first post - not sure if I'll go back and demand me money back. For a start, I'm not very good at that sort of thing... I just bought at the wrong time, and through the wrong channels, and it cost me. Live and learn.

Now that I know several others of you have the same Znoelli rotors, can I ask whether you've noticed a noise coming from them..?

Drive along the motorway in the fast lane (next to the concrete barrier), and wind down your driver's window. When I do this I hear a VERY noticeable clicking from the brakes (reflected off the barrier).
I'm assuming it's a result of the slots or dimples, but Ron at Ralliart did say they shouldn't make a noise like that. Wondering if you guys have noticed it.

If not, try the window-down-in-the-fast lane thing and let me know.

[Freddy]

There is a slight whirring noise as you brake due to the pads rubbing over the dimples and slots on the discs.

[AllBeItMine]

somebody deleted my post?

i said - i talked to lance about this. he charged you $1450. he said the prices to him had gone up. fair enough. he's running a business - not a charity. Sure - if you felt comfortable doing it yourself, you could have bought the items from the distributor direct and done it yourself. you would have saved maybe $150 - $200 all up.

you would have be aware of the price before getting the work done. lance told me he could have charged you upwards of $1700 for the work but cut you a deal cause you are a mate.

[jaimz]

The clicking I'm hearing is constant - whether or not I'm braking... Sounds kinda like a cicada-type noise. Obviously not what you're hearing Freddy...

AllBeItMine,
I'm well aware, and a little embarrassed at the ill feelings which may now be floating around as a result of my posts on this topic.
It has been a selfish crusade to find out if I was ripped off or not, and I thought the forums would be able to help. I wouldn't have named Pitstop if they hadn't already been labelled by other members as controversial.

As for the numbers - if I bought direct from the distributor I would have gotten the rotors for bang on $800 (that's with the 15% discount for buying front AND rear, as quoted to YouSee). Pitstop would've gotten a further trade discount, which, as a business they're absolutely entitled to keep. No worries there.

If Lance said he could've charged $1700 for the job, that would've been $900 for brake pads, brake cleaning fluid, and 2.5 hours labour...! He actually told me he could've charged over 2 grand.
If the distributor charged Pitstop alot more than their online prices, and Pitstop charged me this amount (keeping the trade discount etc...) then that's fine. I'm wrong, and I'm sorry. It's just the numbers just don't add up man.

I'm not a complainer - I've never done this sort of thing before. All I wanted was a good honest job done, and by all accounts, I didn't get it. :embarasse

[_simon_]

$1700-$2000 does seem a little steep. I've just been looking at Racebrakes and one of their packages is
Front and rear rotor, front and rear friction and fluid upgrade $1250 - $1400.
It does say that these prices are for cars with medium sized brakes such as 323 DOHC Turbo or Lancer GSR and to add 10% more for larger brake systems. So paying $1500 was probably about right.

Doesn't say what type of rotor but they seem to know what they're talking about so you can presume it would be somehing good.

[jaimz]

Yeah, thanks for that Simon.
All said and done, I am glad I got better rotors on the car.
I remember reading the users guide for the first time, and the big thing that stood out for me were the comments on its brakes being a little too weak for a car its size and weight.
Sure would like to get to the bottom of that clicking sound though... :inquisiti