hydrogen power

[kornstar]

was just watching best of top gear, where they had the hydrogen powered GM vectra thing,

they said that hydrogen powered vehicles could be out in force in 10 years!
this is good right? cheap to make, out of salt water i think?
and clean to drive, NO emissions,

but how powerful is it? like would it be able to power high performance vehicles like the vr4?

i have also heard that rotary engines are better suited than the piston engine for hyrdogen? so we all could be driving rotors in 20 years time?

so is hyrdogen the way of the future?

[Nick Mann]

With fuel cells and hydrogen storage facilities making massive leaps and bounds in the efficiency and weight stakes, I personally believe that hydrogen will be the way of the future. I think it will eventually be an electric motor thing, rather than an internal combustion thing, though.

[andyv6s]

oil companies will hold on to their monopolys for as long as they can. it is thought that there are 15 to 20 years of oil reserves left if everyone keeps playing the game.

in the mean time a few alternatives will be tried with more or less success, cos we want to prolong the life of the internal combustion engine.

petrol has a huge amount of energy stored in it and as much as 40% if its energy is wasted producing heat and taken up in transmission losses.

governments will soon start to panic and research resources will start making transport efficient, quiet and boring.

hydrogen power is the future but in fuel cells not internal combustion.

get your kicks while you can lads and lasses cos the future is dull, that is until they invent mr fusion powered flying vr4's.

sorry if this is all b@ll@cks :rolleyes4

[Brunty]

Sorry to selectively quote you Kornstar but I thought I'd stick to the areas I know about.


....they said that hydrogen powered vehicles could be out in force in 10 years!

....cheap to make, out of salt water i think?

....and clean to drive, NO emissions....

....so is hyrdogen the way of the future?

I think the immediate future lies with hybrid electic/fossil fuel powered vehicles, although I'm sure that over the years there will be a greater diversity in power sources (petrol/diesel/LPG/biodiesel/electric/solar/hydrogen) - initially for public transport and then spreading to private vehicles.

It might be relatively cheap to harvest small 'laboratory' sized quantities, but to produce the quantities required to keep the planet moving will be hugely expensive. Harvesting/refining/mass storage/distribution/regional storage will all have considerable costs associated. The way petrol (and oil) prices are going at the moment it may mean that it becomes much of a muchness albeit with improved price stability as the gulf states are no longer predominately a monopoly.

Clean to drive - YES, No emissions - NO. Just like electricity as a clean power source the emissions take place further down the supply chain - where does the power come from to seperate the hydrogen?

As for the future hydrogen will definitely play it's part whether it will prove to be the main fuel for powering vehicles I don't know.

I believe we will see a major change in how we view transport and chose (or are encouraged - tax etc) to move around well before there is sufficient pressure/incentive to move from carbon based road fuels.

[Brunty]

From a lecture I recently attended:

Proven oil reserves at end of 2001 (thousand million barrels)

Europe 18.7
Asia Pacific 43.8
North America 63.9
Former Soviet Union 65.4
Africa 76.7
S & Central America 96.0
Middle East 685.6

[_simon_]

Producing hydrogen still requires more energy put into it than you get out. Even the reverse fuel cell method is not 100% efficient.

There is still the problem of storing it and transporting it cheaply.

[Nick Mann]

Just bumping an old thread! Some good points above, including the fact that the hydrogen needs to be made in a clean way before using it is clean.

The reason that I am bumping it is that Vicky spends some of her time at the University of Birmingham playing with Hydrogen storage materials and Hydrogen purification for fuel cells. The department she works in have made the news today, and her Nutty Professor and slightly mad colleague both had their say!

Click Here for Media. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_7000000/newsid_7007500/7007585.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm&news=1&ms3=6)
Click Here for Text. (http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/mail/news/tm_headline=hydrogen-it-s-the-way-forward-says-prof%26method=full%26objectid=19825509%26siteid=50 002-name_page.html#story_continue)

Just thought some of you may be interested!