I am trying to set up a comparison chart of cars similar to the VR-4

[KiwiTT]

I consider the Galant VR-4 to be a Mid-Size Sports Saloon.

Obvious competitors would be the Audi S4, Legacy Turbo, Volvo S60.

Less obvious competitors would be the Mercedes-Benz 190E 2.5-16 Evolution II (http://www.autozine.org/classic/mercedes.htm#190E), Sierra Sapphire Cosworth and XR4x4, BMW M5 (http://www.autozine.org/classic/bmw.htm#M5) which were great cars in their day.

Missing from my chart would be some great cars like the original M3, as it has only 2 doors, or the Lotus Carlton as been too big, or even the Holden HSVs, etc.

I was going to include these but I don't see them as direct competitors.

Here was my original criteria.

- Must have more than 100kW
- Must exceed 200km/h
- Must do 0-100 (0-60) in less than 10 seconds
- Must have four doors
- Must have a wheelbase +/- 6cm of the VR-4

However, missing some good cars, I have decided to modify my criteria to the following

- Must have between 160-240kW (20% either way of 200kW)
- Must weigh between 1350kg and 1650kg (10% either way of 1500kg)
- Must have 4 doors (i.e. A sedan)

I also think it would be good to compare it to the BMW 330i. (http://www.autozine.org/html/BMW/3er.html)

I did consider restrict the drive layout to Front-Rear or Front-All, but this would have missed out the Alfa Romeo 156 GTA.

I do not want to include Wagons in the mix (sorry Legnum owners)

What criteria do you think would be relevant. I want to include cars from 1987 onwards.

[_simon_]

I do not want to include Wagons in the mix (sorry Legnum owners)
But that means you'll be leaving out the best :)


Why limit it to 240KW? Maybe an upper limit on price.

[Kieran]

Perhaps cars with a similar bhp per £££ (or NZD) spent. This could then include some interesting alternatives....

[bradc]

The only cars I can think of (and I know your stance on wagons, but I just don't care!) I'm naming cars that I considered before buying my car, as well as those that I see on a daily basis and see as competition from one set of lights to another

Subaru Impreza - all models, much more of a boy racer car, but they still try and race me all the time, and they obviously come with a turbo, 4wd and in both wagon and sedan versions.

Subaru Legacy GT - the 3 most recent versions, from about 1994 to today. All those have a turbo, 4wd, and similar horsepower to our cars, if a little slower

Toyota Caldina GT-T - still a wagon, but a smaller car than ours with less power, and a little bit slower too.

Holden Commodore V8 - basically any description, they are always keen for a race ;)

Ford Falcon V8 - same as the commodore but a whole heap uglier

Audi TT - what is it with these guys, one tries to race me just about everyday!

Nissan Stagea - there is a version with an RB26DETT engine, enough said.



We are tons quicker than 330i's, I've taken a few on and completely driven away from them.

[You See]

Holden Commodore V8 - basically any description, they are always keen for a race ;)

Ford Falcon V8 - same as the commodore but a whole heap uglier

HEEEEEELLLLL NOOOOOOOOOOO!! ...FORD ROCKS! ..Holden's Shyt! /grr

[bradc]

and who won on the weekend?

I also forgot to add in that fords are slower ;)

[You See]

Only coz that damn Murphy had to take out the competition....typical holden tactics! ...if you can't beat them, take them out! /grr

[_simon_]

I'm not a big Ford fan BUT aren't the XR6 Turbos 260KW. 2WD so power lost wont be anywhere near as big as we get and they can't weigh that much more. So it looks like it adds up to a faster car!

[KiwiTT]

Why limit it to 240KW?

I do not want to be too far from the VR-4 Power/Weight Ratios. Hence the limits on Power and Weight.

[GroundControl]

I'm not a big Ford fan BUT aren't the XR6 Turbos 260KW. 2WD so power lost wont be anywhere near as big as we get and they can't weigh that much more. So it looks like it adds up to a faster car!

I've got a mate who owns an XR6 Turbo - in a straight line it's quicker than a (stock) VR4, but going around roundabouts the VR4 spanks it :smug:

[michaeli]

What about...

Saab 2ltr turbo
Golf R32
Skoda RS
Seat Leon Cupra
Seat Ibiza Cupra
Mercedes E500/C500 or similar

[KiwiTT]

All good cars michaeli.

I want to limit it to true "Mid-Size" sports saloons. I will exclude hatchbacks and coupes.

I am considering using the old turbo mulitplier of 1.4, and it will keep the engine sizes to 2.0-3.0 Turbo or 2.8 - 4.2 Non-turbo engines.

BTW the XR6T is a 4 litre turbo and will be excluded.

[WildCards]

Are diesels coming into it too.

Some may not have the bhp, but the torque figures are nice and high. BMW's and VAG's in particular, and alot of VAG's come with quattro/Syncro/4Motion 4x4 gubbins too. Some competion there surely (after a ECU upgrade)

[jakester]

What about 4 Door Skylines, avaliable from the 32 to the 34 they either have RB20DET or RB25DET.

[KiwiTT]

Re the Nissans. I will be including the GTS-t models.

As to Diesels the 330d is very impressive. However, I am very much a "purist", so it would have to have sub 8 sec 0-60 times, to even get a shoe in.

[Kieran]

As to Diesels the 330d is very impressive. However, I am very much a "purist", so it would have to have sub 8 sec 0-60 times, to even get a shoe in.

The 330d manages that - it's 7.4 to sixty! the 320d is about on par with the 8.5 secs of a V6 Sport (Bleedin' things!!).

[Wodjno]

The 330d manages that - it's 7.4 to sixty! the 320d is about on par with the 8.5 secs of a V6 Sport (Bleedin' things!!).
I think the V6 Sport times are airing a long way on the side of caution.. /Hmmm

[Kieran]

I think the V6 Sport times are airing a long way on the side of caution.. /Hmmm

Hmmm..... Having owned one, I'm inclined to agree to a point. From a standing start, Hordak would slap a 320d, but not a 330d. Once onderway, both 320 and 330ds were a pain. The 320 could keep up (or stay ahead!!) and the 330 was best not meddled with! :embarasse

Best 0-60 I ever recorded was at 'Pod, worked out at 7.9 secs.

[Wodjno]

Hmmm..... Having owned one, I'm inclined to agree to a point. From a standing start, Hordak would slap a 320d, but not a 330d. Once onderway, both 320 and 330ds were a pain. The 320 could keep up (or stay ahead!!) and the 330 was best not meddled with! :embarasse

Best 0-60 I ever recorded was at 'Pod, worked out at 7.9 secs.

Once on the move the BM Diesels are gonna take you apart with there superior torque.. But i reckon your Pod time id still a little short of there ability.. If you get the launch right (which is the hard bit) it should easily pull a low 7. /yes
Best place to try a 0-60 is by using the grippy stuff thats meant for slowing you down at traffic lights.. You ca get a good 20 to 30 metres of good traction on these.. I used to use them when i had the 620ti.. It made a Helluva difference. /yes

[KiwiTT]

330d yes and the 320d no.

The V6 Sport misses out due to the engine displacement. i.e. 2.5 non turbo. But in the interests of 8G Galants, I will include all 8G Galants, but keep my base that all non 8G Galants will be measured against as the mighty VR-4.

1.8 GDI
2.0 GLS
2.0 MiVEC
2.4 GDI
2.5 V6
2.5 V6 Turbo

[Wodjno]

I hope you will include this oil burner, if it eventually arrives.. :inquisiti /yes
http://www.tuningnews.net/news/031124/opel-vectra-opc.php

[KiwiTT]

If it fits the criteria of under 8 seconds, etc

[Wodjno]

If it fits the criteria of under 8 seconds, etc

6.5sec to 100kph /Hmmm
Limited to 250kph :inquisiti

[KiwiTT]

Sounds good. We will see what it does when it is in production, after the Safety experts have added all their bits. :scholar:

[WildCards]

Not sure if the weight of these vehicles comes within your criteria or if they are available in NZ, but the numbers of doors and power are certainly within the parameters;

Audi A4 3.2 FSI Saloon & Estate
Audi A6 3.2 FSI Saloon & Estate
Ford Mondeo ST220 Saloon & Estate
Jaguar S-Type 3.0 V6 Saloon
Jaguar S-Type 4.0 V8 Saloon
Jaguar S-Type 4.2 V8 Saloon
Lexus GS 3.0 Saloon
Lexus GS 4.3 Saloon
Saab 9-3/9-5 2.3HOT Saloon & Estate
Volvo S60R / V70R - 97-00 250bhp versions & recent 300bhp versions

Not included Jap metal, BMW (cough!) or MB as i'm sure you already have those included.

[ghanda]

With regards to the BM Diesels, the 330d gets to 100kmh (62mph) in 6.8 seconds and the 535d manages it in 6.6!! :rolleyes4

[WildCards]

Aren't they releasing a 335d aswell with twin turbo's? Also, the 130i would probably be a good car to go in the comparison.

[KiwiTT]

Yep Wildcards some of those a worthy entrants.

[V6Dan]

OK - going to be an unpopular choice I'm sure but Rover 620Ti? I don't know Kw, but its 200BHP, 0-60 in 7 secs and 150mph...

[Brunty]

As discussed in http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15140 (this thread)

Permanent 4wd, 47%/53% fron/rear power split
260bhp
0-100kmph in 7 seconds
240kmph top speed

.......with a possible estate version?

[Siamblue]

Hi Guys having just owned one for the last 2 years, I would say the Volvo S70 T5,
0-60 6.5, top speed 155mph, 4 door saloon, 2.3 litre 20v twin ohc turbo, weight 1500 kg,

Gary.

[Wodjno]

OK - going to be an unpopular choice I'm sure but Rover 620Ti? I don't know Kw, but its 200BHP, 0-60 in 7 secs and 150mph...

THE MUTZ NUTZ !! :2thumbsup

The Ultimate Street Sleeper :iloveyou:

[KiwiTT]

Not sure if the weight of these vehicles comes within your criteria or if they are available in NZ, but the numbers of doors and power are certainly within the parameters;

Audi A4 3.2 FSI Saloon & Estate
Audi A6 3.2 FSI Saloon & Estate
Ford Mondeo ST220 Saloon & Estate
Jaguar S-Type 3.0 V6 Saloon
Jaguar S-Type 4.0 V8 Saloon
Jaguar S-Type 4.2 V8 Saloon
Lexus GS 3.0 Saloon
Lexus GS 4.3 Saloon
Saab 9-3/9-5 2.3HOT Saloon & Estate
Volvo S60R / V70R - 97-00 250bhp versions & recent 300bhp versions

Not included Jap metal, BMW (cough!) or MB as i'm sure you already have those included.

I think the A6, S-Type are a little larger than I want, but am unsure about 9-3 vs 9-5, also the Lexus models are little bigger too!

[WildCards]

I think the A6, S-Type are a little larger than I want, but am unsure about 9-3 vs 9-5, also the Lexus models are little bigger too!

No problems. The Saab 9-3 is BMW 3 Series size and in competition with and the 9-5 is against the 5 series if that helps. Same engine and power in both cars.

[bradc]

The A6 and S-type are around the same size as a VR-4, and in NZ at least the RS4/6 are regular competition for me. They are a lot heavier though, the RS6 is 1970kg.

[KiwiTT]

I will have a complete list of vehicles soon. I have gone backwards from 2006 and have reached 1991. There are some good vehicles in the past which do deserve a mention.

Because I had a Galant GTi-16v, I am including one of those as well as the 4WD version called the Dynamic 4 and of course the 6G VR-4. I suppose I should include the 7G VR-4 as well.

I am torn between the X-Type 3.0 4WD and the S-Type V8. If I include the S-Type V8, I would have to include the Type-R version, BMW 540i and even the mighty M5. The S6 seems to big.

If I select cars too small, I am then competing with our own sister car the EVO series, and the WRX, when I consider the legacy to be the true competitor too our car.

BTW the Rover 620 Ti looks good on paper, so will be included.

[S1yf0x]

What about the Skoda Octavia VRS? And I think there is another Skoda thats like doodoo off a shiny shovel. :D

[KiwiTT]

I looked at the Octavia models. I am not sure as yet.

[WildCards]

None of the Skodas would be in competition with the VR4. The Octavia is based on the VW Golf platform and is too small for this comparison (IMHO) and is FF with only 200bhp.

[KiwiTT]

I am considering including a couple of mainstream Ford Falcons and Holden Commodores (XR6,XR6T,XR* and SS models).

I thought the Superb was bigger but did not have the performance.

I am considering the Lotus Carlton as well. Just to see how our VR-4 compares.

Did you know that there is a BMW 330xi available in Germany. i.e. A BMW 3 series with 4WD. I see the current Mid 90's 3 series and the early 5 series are also of interest.

[S1yf0x]

Are you including Ford RS200? Or is that classed as a rally car?

[S1yf0x]

Sorry KiwiTT its 2 seater mah bad man :D

[KiwiTT]

No Worries. I like the RS200 as well. But it won't be included like many others of my favorites (i.e. Porsche 959, Ferrari 288 GTO)

[bradc]

Richard, I think you may as well include all the Jags, BMW's, Holdens, Fords and Audi's that we've been talking about, we encounter those on the streets on a regular basis, so they should be included

[KiwiTT]

I have already a list of over 100 cars. I really need to cull it down.

[WildCards]

ooh, can you post up a list so we can see.

[KiwiTT]

I will post a new thread later with the complete list. I am wanting to determine direct competitors (i.e. S4, Legacy RSK) of which there is about 20, and then some lesser so competitors (i.e. no 4WDs)

[Oblivion]

I will post a new thread later with the complete list. I am wanting to determine direct competitors (i.e. S4, Legacy RSK) of which there is about 20, and then some lesser so competitors (i.e. no 4WDs)

Did you ever finish your comparison chart? I was thinking about making a quick one comparing performance figures but not if such a thing already exists!