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Kieran
19-10-2005, 11:09 PM
Bum. As if I didn't already have enough items on the 'fix it' list :embarasse ...

Whilst PSB and I were swearing at Ariadne on Sunday, Paul spotted that the engine and gearbox mounts are all in need of replacement. All of them appear to be worn, and the mount that sits on the crossmember has totally collapsed - Resulting in the gearbox now rubbing on the crossmember!! /help

Anyway - here's some parts and prices for Mitsubishi OEM ones. Interesting pricing structure(!!!) :inquisiti and they're all special order. Bloomin' typical. /grr

MR198381 £24.07 + VAT
MR235603 £52.35 + VAT
MR198377 £76.17 + VAT
MR198388 £99.51 + VAT

Now, so far I have learned that MR198381 is the crossmember mounting, and it appears identical in size, shape and fitting to the 2G Eclipse Turbo mount. This would make sense as Edmund VR4's recent post about replacement bushes mentioned this model too.

My question is:

Does anyone know of any other mountings (maybe from the FTO?) that will fit the VR-4? And where to get them?

In the meantime, I think I shall perform the semi-bodge that is Urethane window sealant to repair and reinforce the knackered mount (click HERE (http://www.mirage-performance.com/apparts/tech/enginemounts.html) for details), but I don't want to rely on this.

I'll give it a week or two, and if there's no news, looks like I'll be calling 'Robbin Blind' at the Mitsubishi Parts Desk again!! :embarasse

Wodjno
20-10-2005, 12:01 AM
Hi Kieren .. Not good news that.. Hope this may be of some use .. I put those part numbers into google and it only came up with 1 find and that was this site.. Think it maybe russian , not sure. http://vr4.hut1.ru/sale3.htm I can't translate it on work PC. But there maybe some pricing for these parts on there somewhere.. Hopefully cheaper. :inquisiti

AllBeItMine
20-10-2005, 12:50 AM
would you like me to see if i can get better pricing for this in NZ?

Kenneth
20-10-2005, 02:08 AM
My front engine mount is broken. the rubber stuff has collapsed.

I was thinking of getting some Urethane bar or the like and just put it on the lathe to make some inserts. From what I can see there is basically a metal outer ring and a metal insert in the middle... make a nice snug fit and theoretically that should be that...

Could be I am missing something though /Hmmm

/edit I suppose it could be a bit soft to turn down with a lathe... only one way to find out I suppose

Kenneth
20-10-2005, 02:50 AM
speaking of hardness (er, minds out of the gutter... lol ) does anyone know what sort of hardness range would be needed for engine mounts?

AllBeItMine
20-10-2005, 03:18 AM
there is a company Pitstop use that will pour liquid Nolathane into existing engine mounts after you pull the rubber inserts out. it takes a day or so for the stuff to dry to the point of being useable but once thats done they are all good.

costs about $100 per mount/bush however so buying new ones from mitsi might be a better plan

Kenneth
20-10-2005, 03:33 AM
costs about $100 per mount/bush however so buying new ones from mitsi might be a better plan

There was a place on William Pickering (the road I work on interestingly enough) which sells the liquid for you to do it yourself. IIRC it was nearly $100 for 1L or 1lb (or some such) of the stuff, but that should be enough to do all your mounts with.

Here is part of the email conversation I had regarding it. You will see it was some time ago ;)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tracey Tohill" <tracey@itwpolymersandfluids.co.nz>
To: "Ken Simpson"
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 1:49 PM
Subject: RE: Devcon Flexane


Hi Ken

We do stock Flexane 80 Liquid & Putty 450g. We have stock of the Flexane 80
Liquid at the moment with the Putty arriving into stock any day.

Unfortnately we only supply through selected distributors these being
companies like - Blackwoods, Paykels, Bay Engineering, Brassfit etc. If you
drop me an e-mail back as to your location I would be happy to advise you
with contact details for a distributor nearby. This distributor will be able
to provide you with pricing.

I have enclosed the data sheets on both of these products for your perusal.

Thanks for your enquiry

Kind Regards

Tracey Tohill

Kieran
20-10-2005, 07:13 AM
would you like me to see if i can get better pricing for this in NZ?

Yes please. /yes

And Kenneth - Funnily enough, there's a company that supply Flexane over here (www.frost.co.uk). I had not considered them simply because I didn't think that Flexane would be strong enough... Hmm... Do you still have the data sheet (flexane is sold in 3 levels of hardness by Frost, you see).

zentac
20-10-2005, 08:53 AM
If anyone has got caps installed they can check on there to see if the mounts are used on any other cars, ... if not I will check tonight when I get home

zentac
20-10-2005, 08:54 AM
If they are the same as FTO you can have 2 of mine (right and left ones) as Ive got 2 new ones arriving next week.

Kieran
20-10-2005, 11:19 AM
Cheers Richard.

I have been doing further research on 'Flexane' and it's a popular way of upgrading and repairing knackered mountings. So, I think I shall order a pot of Flexane '60' or '80' and having a go with that - I'm leaning towards flexane 60, as this would yield a softer mounting - and less NVH as a result. Only thing I'm not sure of is wether Flexane '60' has enough tensile strength to deal with the torque it will be subjected to. :inquisiti

I shall keep you posted - as at £40 a tin (enough to do several mounts), it could prove to be a very economical and effective way to reproduce all the rubber bits that are starting to get a bit crumbly on the older VR-4s in the club /yes

enigma
20-10-2005, 12:35 PM
So do we call Nick Dirty Boy or Del Boy from now on??

Kieran
20-10-2005, 12:53 PM
So do we call Nick Dirty Boy or Del Boy from now on??

How's about 'Dirty Del' :beatnik2: :deal2:......

/haz

Sorry Nick!! I'll behave now!! :embarasse /pan

Nick Mann
20-10-2005, 01:08 PM
I have a finger that's just the right shape for poking you in the eye!!

P!$$ taking bar stewards! Grrrrr....... :veryangry

And I may be helping you use that pot, K, as I'm sure I have movement somewhere that I shouldn't have and I suspect the near side engine mount.

pezza
20-10-2005, 01:45 PM
How's about 'Dirty Del' :beatnik2: :deal2:......




careful now... /pan

Kieran
20-10-2005, 02:23 PM
careful now... /pan
:oops:
Errr We'll stick with Dirty Boy then!! :embarasse

zentac
20-10-2005, 05:04 PM
sorry not of the part numbers for the FTO are the same as the ones youve listed. Whats your chassis number and I will tell you if they are used on any other car.

The Vee
20-10-2005, 07:04 PM
[QUOTE=Nick Mann]

And I may be helping you use that pot, K, as I'm sure I have movement somewhere that I shouldn't have .[/QUOTE

...................... Sorry!!

Kenneth
20-10-2005, 07:57 PM
Here it is.

I would probably go the 80... comfort? bah to comfort /help

AllBeItMine
20-10-2005, 08:44 PM
Yes please. /yes

And Kenneth - Funnily enough, there's a company that supply Flexane over here (www.frost.co.uk). I had not considered them simply because I didn't think that Flexane would be strong enough... Hmm... Do you still have the data sheet (flexane is sold in 3 levels of hardness by Frost, you see).


all prices (NZD) have 12.5% tax ontop of them

JCMR198381 @ 50.00+ gst
JCMR235603 @ 80.00+ gst
JCMR198377 @ 145.00+ gst
JCMR198388 @ 115.00+gst

Kenneth
16-02-2006, 03:09 AM
Kieran, any update with this?

Tomorrow I will be picking up 450gm of flexane 80 liquid. Might see if I can get the front engine mount sorted before the meet on sunday.

Cost me approx $150 nz (approx £60). be interesting to see how far that will go. if It does more than 1 mount then it is probably worth it.

KiwiTT
16-02-2006, 03:20 AM
What symptoms are apparent if your engine mounts are about to go ?

Kenneth
16-02-2006, 03:35 AM
What symptoms are apparent if your engine mounts are about to go ?

dont know. my front one is torn. you can see the rubber centre has come away from the outer ring.

Probably the best thing to do is to talk to your mechanic and get him to take a look when you go for your services.

Of course I will report any differences I find, but there is a chance that anything I notice wont be the same as doing your engine mounts if all are intact.

Kenneth
21-02-2006, 02:04 AM
Done.

I have successfully created a Urethane front engine mount.

I will post pics when I get them off my phone...

Results? Well, I was in a hurry to get the engine mount in before the Piha run on sunday, so things were a little rushed.

There is deffinatly more vibration in the car from the engine, the vibration is more audiable as as well. This means that I can feel what RPM I am at. On start up it feels a little harsh, but I suspect thats because there is bugger all engine movement. I am still yet to start the engine with the hood up just to see how much/little engine movement there is.

All in all, I prefer the feel of the engine as it is a lot more positive. If comfort and quiet is paramount to you, then this mod is not for you.

Oh, and the Urethane is actually quite expensive, $150. but I do have enough left to do another mount. you will get 2 mounts, possibly 3 out of 450grams

If anyone is wanting to do this, I still have a fair bit left. You will have to take out and strip your stock mount yourself though.

zentac
21-02-2006, 08:43 AM
Ive got polyurethene mounts all round (4) in the FTO. They certainly help give better pickup, cant see any other point for them though...

Kieran
21-02-2006, 11:51 AM
Ive got polyurethene mounts all round (4) in the FTO. They certainly help give better pickup, cant see any other point for them though...

Where did you get them from? Are they more harsh than standard?

zentac
23-02-2006, 09:06 PM
Where did you get them from? Are they more harsh than standard?

alot harsher, the side ones I had custom made, I bought a bar of polly the side ones I got RPW to make up for me.

Kieran
13-01-2007, 06:05 PM
To catch up with this one, as it's been some time.... What's a year between friends, eh?!/pan

Okay. 3 engine mounts of the four are now sat with me here.

Unfortunately, I've broken my digicam so I can't post pictures /Grrr But I should like to give a quick commentary anyway... One of the main reasons being that, it seems that the engine mounts are a little bit of a card tower - That is to say, if one mounting is dead or wearing out, the others have more loading to deal with and this is often at a more severe angle, so they are likely to fail prematurely, even if they're not worn out.

The three mounts I have in front of me are the front and rear mountings (the rear mounting sits next to the rear turbo and was designed by Satanka Evilishi at Mitsubishi, using the trademark Mitsubishi 'Impossi-Bolt' design) and the gearbox mounting (the big one under the airbox).

I think what's happened in my case is that the Transmission mounting failed first, judging by the condition of the bushing - it's much worse than the others. With this mounting, the body is bolted to the gearbox and eyelet (in the middle of the rubber) is anchored to the chassis. Over time it appears that the constant weight of the gearbox has compressed the rubber in the bushing, resulting in the eyelet moving upwards and exacerbating the problem. In fact, the rubber at the top of the mount has been put under so much compression that it has bulged out about 10mm each side above the eyelet and has also torn away from the top of the mounting body. This would account for the low-sitting gearbox

This then placed the front and rear mounts (which are bolted to the body and anchored to the gearbox near the engine at the front and rear) under stress, resulting in the front rubber tearing its bushing and collapsing downwards. The Rear mounting has followed suit, though as it's a beefier mounting, it hasn't completely failed.

I think part of the reason that these mounts have failed so badly is due to a number of things...

Age and Mileage.
'Launching' the car.
The fact that the engine is so torquey anyway.
Compromised design.... Each mount has a rubber bushing, but they're not completely solid. They have large air gaps by design, to allow the mount to move and flex, improving NVH levels in the cabin. The only problem is that this inherently lessens the amount of rubber available to spread any load placed upon the bushing - resulting in the load stress being focused in a few small areas of the mounting, rather than being evenly spread.

So. Tomorrow, starting with the rearmost bushing, I shall be making fresh ones using flexane. I shall follow the instructions here:

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=166558

/toycar /toycar

wrdmotorsport
13-01-2007, 07:35 PM
good info K so soon be /toycar with your car then

Kieran
14-01-2007, 05:59 PM
Right. Well, today I mostly set fire to to things and weilded a knife in anger! /Devil5

Unfortunately I have no pictures again, so it's text only.

Anyway - The first mount I tackled was the Transmission one (under the airbox). The design of this mount is interesting in that the area that the bushing sits in is not completely round - as there's a fluid chamber built in that holds what looks a little like LHM fluid. As I was burning and wire brushing out the last of the rubber, this chamber periodically oozed more fluid out. THe reason why i mention this is because it makes the mount difficult to clean up - There's a lot of angles and crevices that you'll need to attack.

I've attached a mock-up diagram of the mount below. It's not at all accurate in terms of scale but it'll give you the idea. The grey areas are where the fluid chamber is. The black thing in the middle is the bushing eyelet. The square on top is part of the design. It looks like a bump-stop to stop total collapse of the mount if the rubber goes (as it had in my case).

The rear roll stopper was MUCH easier to prep - simply because there was no fluid chambers, so once the rubber was out, as wire brush cup on the end of a drill made short work of creating a shiny metal surface.

If you're thinking of doing this yourself, bear in mind it's time consuming and you'll loose use of your car for at least a weekend, taking the flexane curing time into account.

- Be careful of setting fire to the bushes. I did use a blowlamp once I'd cut out all the rubber I could, but you don't want to risk overheating the alloy shell and distorting it. Short, controlled blasts of flame are recommended.

- You can quite easily cut out the middle of the bushing using an old knife (make sure you don't want to use it again though as it gets covered in rubber ooze) ... Simply heat the blade using a blowlamp untill it's almost red hot and it'll plunge through the rubber like it's butter - much cleaner!

- I don't think you need (or indeed should) to chisel out the inner shell of the bushing as the thread I linked to in my last post shows... I found it just as easy to burn/brush clean the inner shell.

- You'll need Flexane FL-10 primer as well as a tin of flexane. This allows the flexane to bond to the metal properly.


Okay - time to go and pour my new mounts then! I shall report back in due course./toycar

Kieran
14-01-2007, 11:49 PM
New mounts poured and now curing. Flexane is easy to mix but very messy to work with, and if you've not got a good seal, it will find ways through!

Only slight worry is that the weight of the flexane has dragged the eylet of one of the bushings out of place a tad... It's now protruding slightly more on one side than the other.... I guess it will be 'suck it and see' as to whether this will be a major problem or not.:inquisiti

I think next time I might experiment and cast a completely solid bushing, then drill a pilot hole and press-fit the eyelet in once it's cured, so that I can get it dead on target.... I dunno if this would work or not?:thinking: :inquisiti :book:

bernmc
16-01-2007, 09:18 AM
I suppose you could coat the eyelet with a thin layer of flexane to 'glue' it into the drilled hole...?

Have you gone for the 80?

Kieran
16-01-2007, 10:48 AM
No, I went for 60. The General opinion on the word wide wobbly web is that standard mounts are around 45-55 durometer, 'uprated' mounts from the likes of Spoon Sports (a honda tuner) being specified at 70 durometer on some US sites. Now that the mounts have set, I am kinda glad I didn't get the 80 or the 94 - they feel VERY solid indeed!

The acid test will come next weekend when I refit them to the car and see if my fillings loosen when I turn the key!:inquisiti

psbarham
16-01-2007, 06:43 PM
well let me know how they go , they only thing stopping my sump dragging on the road is the fine collections of cats eyes under it :thinking:

Kieran
16-01-2007, 06:49 PM
Will do - looking at how rigid they are, I am already saving for the swear tin when I try to line 'em back up again! No lateral play could mean bringing my engine hoist into the fray to get them damn bolts back in again! :smash:

Oh, and 1 pot of flexane will do two mounts with a few mils left over - so if you're thinking of using it, you'll need two pots to do all 4 mounts.

Kenneth
16-01-2007, 09:23 PM
Will do - looking at how rigid they are, I am already saving for the swear tin when I try to line 'em back up again! No lateral play could mean bringing my engine hoist into the fray to get them damn bolts back in again! :smash:

Oh, and 1 pot of flexane will do two mounts with a few mils left over - so if you're thinking of using it, you'll need two pots to do all 4 mounts.

Yeah, they are a bit of a bugger to get lined up if something is slightly out...
I also found that there is probably enough to do 2. you MAY be able to get 3 if you were a bit creative and didn't full them compleatly (I dont think you need to... maybe some voids would soften them somewhat). At 2 mounts per tin of flexane, the economy of making your own mounts is somewhat dubious.

Kieran
16-01-2007, 09:28 PM
Not so in the UK.... No aftermarket mounts.... And you've seen the prices for a Mitsubishi set on the first page!/help

NZ is probably cheaper though.

stuartturbo
16-01-2007, 09:32 PM
is the max temp of flex an issue 82degc

Kieran
16-01-2007, 09:40 PM
I don't honestly know Stu... I guess we'll find out. THe rear engine mount is about 6 or so inches from the inlet nozzle of the rear turbo, so it's on the cool side I guess, but I might put a heat reflective shield around it now you mention it. I think that's the only one at risk though? :inquisiti

VR4 MAD
16-01-2007, 10:13 PM
Will do - looking at how rigid they are, I am already saving for the swear tin when I try to line 'em back up again! No lateral play could mean bringing my engine hoist into the fray to get them damn bolts back in again! :smash:

Oh, and 1 pot of flexane will do two mounts with a few mils left over - so if you're thinking of using it, you'll need two pots to do all 4 mounts.

Something from another thread about engine mount rigidity that maybe of interest Kieran.........../help


I was really surprised just how much movement was present. A friend of mine pointed it out to me and i was really shocked.

When we put the engine it it was a bugger as there was/is NO give in the mounts. Normally the rubber has an abount of give in it and even if the engine isnt perfectly aligned you can get thee bolts through the mounts. On the GTO with the solid poly mounts it took us hours of levering, hoisting and pulling to get it smack on so we could get the bolts in. When the engine was in the bay there was and still is NO movement in it. You need a big lever bar braced off the chassis to get anny discernable movement at all.

On drag launches though, yep the rear of the intake tube smacks the lid off the clutch master cylinder! It will do it every time on a hard launch so i now have to tape the cap on!!

Makes you think, but this movement was from heavy drag type launches though. /pan

Anyway here's thread the quote came from....... http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?p=213549#post213549

Hope that helps.

/toycar

stuartturbo
16-01-2007, 10:18 PM
On the movement front what about a brace as used on many other cars?

Kieran
16-01-2007, 10:20 PM
Interesting. There is a tiny bit of give in these flexane ones, but when I say tiny I mean me doing push ups on it and the bushing moving slightly! /pan

I'll refit the rear one first as that's the most awkward to get at and then the transmission mount.. I can get lever bars and such in easier for that one if I need to....:inquisiti

Kieran
16-01-2007, 10:21 PM
On the movement front what about a brace as used on many other cars?

A torque damper you mean? Like a little shock absorber? Never seen one for the galant/legnum, though one exists for the Evo... Can't be that difficult to adapt?:inquisiti

Eurospec
19-01-2007, 11:39 AM
Pit road M sell one for the GTO which you might be able to adapt.

The issue is that the mounts are obviously the opposite way round.
As Kieran said, the EVO one would be a better bet, as it will be handed correctly.

Normally the damper goes between the side engine mount and the top of the suspension strut. You would think in that position it would have to resist a huge moment- which it does- but the pitroad one seems to work.

When thinking about mounts you have the choise of:-

New OEM
Filling OEM with poly etc to stiffen them up (does work)
New Polly bush inserts done as Richard suggested
Solid.

Solid mounts are the ultimate for the drag guys, and getting every last bit out of the launch, but, there is no cushioning at all. I have seen both fto and GTO with standard gerabox mounts litterally snap the casing when something has impacted hard. With a solid metal mount this will become even more likely.

Check this nastyness:-

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/benh/gearBork.jpg


Solid mounts also pass every vibration into the car so the car feels very rumbly. I recon with solid mounts you wouldnt have to hit something that hard to punch a hole in the gearbox. Imagine smacking the mount point with a 5 lb hammer. Now imagine smacking it with the weight of the gearbox. You wouldnt need to smack that hard to break it i wouldnt have thought.

Poly mounts are a good compromise, but again you feel a lot more vibration. They are a bugger to fit.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, the std mount is rubber within a metal colar which is a press fit into the mount itself. To fit polly, you have to get all this out. I have tried heaps of ways, notably, pushing the old bush out with a press, which just results in the rubber distorting a ridiculous amount, but no movement. I've tried cleaning the rubber out with a knife/scrapers to get a clean surface (on the metal collar) to get the new bush in. This takes hours and never works! Finally i settled on getting poly bushes which are slightly oversize for the ID of the mount itself (not the collar).

Get the mount off the car and burn the rubber bush out with the oxy. (lots of acrid smoke) Using the air saw or hack saw to cut into the metal collar to split it. Finally then push the metal colar out, clean up the inside of the mount, lube it with ATF, then press the new polly bush into it.

Strengthening existing bushes works well too, though its not something we do, i know a lot of people have done it, and it does work, and is surprisingly permanant!

Cheers,

Ben.

Kieran
19-01-2007, 12:39 PM
Weather permitting, I should be able to fit my flexaned mounts tomorrow. they're all new - all the old bushing rubber was burned/wire brushed out.

BraindG
19-01-2007, 02:01 PM
Having read through post #28 (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=215351&postcount=28), I have a question regarding failed/failing engine mounts.

What sort of issues would you experience if your car had failed/failing engine mounts? Vibrations? any odd behaviour from the car?

Ta.

Axeboy
19-01-2007, 02:37 PM
Does failed mounts not cause a 'shunt' under acceleration or heaving braking?


Accelerate hard and lift off, you will notice its weight moving this way.

Kieran
19-01-2007, 02:39 PM
Well, you will need to visually inspect them. Look for tears, cracks and 'perished rubber' stress marks around the edge of the bushing rubber where it connects to the eyelet and the mounting body.

Look also to see if the eyelet is centred. If it's moved out of position, it may be on the way.

Look for bulging engine mount rubbers...the rubber should be flush to the casing - if it's bulging out either side, it's being compressed too much.

Look under the car - the gearbox should be clear of the crossmember that runs front to back under the engine. If it's touching, then something's up.

Having driven two VR-4s with known 'good' mounts, my car feels more 'mechanical' in comparrison. You hear a lot more drivetrain noise, and there's some vibration at idle.

Kieran
19-01-2007, 02:40 PM
Does failed mounts not cause a 'shunt' under acceleration or. heaving braking?


Accelerate hard and lift off, you will notice its weight moving this way.


Yes - that's very true, it does. I've had that.

BraindG
19-01-2007, 02:43 PM
I was wondering whether or not it might have something to do with my judder under acceleration. (hard acceration its ok(ish) - normal its quite bad)

Wodjno
19-01-2007, 04:01 PM
I think mine have been Ducked for a Long Long time..
I get shunt everytime i touch the accelerator pedal and when i come off it.. Plus under hard acceleration i get Humungus amounts of vibration... Always have since i fitted a boost controller..

stuey
19-01-2007, 05:05 PM
Mine were knackered when i bought the car, top one in pic below, all 4 changed for new mitsi ones asap. didn't notice massive change, definately less vibration in general and odd noises gone...

Kieran
19-01-2007, 09:53 PM
Mine were knackered when i bought the car, top one in pic below, all 4 changed for new mitsi ones asap. didn't notice massive change, definately less vibration in general and odd noises gone...

Blimey - yes, people in Club VR-4Land, if your engine mount looks anything like that... It's well and truly goosed!:speechles

Kieran
20-01-2007, 01:33 PM
Right! Well, the repaired mounts are back in and bolted up - with minimal frasser rassering too!:afro:

Now to have a cuppa and then I'll tackle the driveshaft boot and then I'll be able to drive her around and see what's what!:happy:

Kieran
20-01-2007, 08:22 PM
So! were my Flexane antics in vain?

Definetly Not. :happy:

Okay, here's what I've noticed, though bear in mind my original mounts were trashed - so if yours are good, you may want to think carefully about this mod. In fact I would say that unless you have a manual car and you're chasing 60ft times, or you've got shagged engine mounts... You probably don't need to faff about with all of this. For reference, my rearmost mounting and the gearbox mounting are now flexane ones, and I used Flexane '60'. The others (the little one on the crossmember and the one attached to the engine on the driver's side) are OEM. The little crossmember mounting is worn, but not torn. It will soon need replacing though. The drivers side mounting appears to be in good, servicable condition, having been replaced already.

Anyway - My views...

At idle and when starting, the cabin is more refined. The engine noise is more muted and there's less vibration. You used to feel the engine 'kick' as it fired - not any more.

When put into Drive (that's FORWARD 1,2,3,4,5 for all you spakkerbox owners/pan ) and left at idle there is slightly more vibration in the cabin. It seems that anything below 800rpm and the flexane transmits the noise. I imagine this would be more pronounced with a harder grade of flexane.

There's no more transmission 'shunt' when putting the car into gear. It just engages.

There' s much less gearbox noise when underway. Before, you could hear the gearbox as it engaged gears and such - lots of whining and bearing noise - not surprising as the gearbox was resting on the crossmember!

As for a 'crisper' drive... I can't honestly say I notice any difference in that respect - I suspect that's more of a manual thing though.

So yes, all in all - Mission successful!:scholar:

psbarham
21-01-2007, 10:12 AM
cool , i'll order some then , glen do ya wanna do yours at the same time ?

BraindG
21-01-2007, 09:20 PM
interesting Kieran, thank you.

I was consideing doing this aswell, might just get the stuff ordered and do it now.

Axeboy
21-01-2007, 09:21 PM
How long did it take to remove the old mounts K?

Kieran
21-01-2007, 09:53 PM
How long did it take to remove the old mounts K?

Well, I started (that is, wandered to the garage with a steaming cuppa and started getting all the tools and such out) at 10AM and they were out and I was done and packed away by about 3pm. I would have been a lot quicker if it wasn't for the 3rd bolt on the rear engine mount.. It's underneat the mounting bush, so you can't see it from above, and from beneath it's obscured by the power steering rack. There's just enough room to get a flexi-head ratchet and a long reach 14mm socket onto it. Fortunately, it's so tucked away it doesn't get blasted by crap, so the threads hadn't rusted.

Rough guide (very rough!)

Gearbox mount:

Battery out.
Battery tray out.
Lower crossmember and front engine roll stopper out. Support the gearbox with a jack or stand.
Then:
Crack bushing bolt (17mm)
Crack the three bolts holding the mount to the gearbox (long reach 17mm)
Support the gearbox/engine joint lip with suitable jack and block of wood. Pump the jack up to take the weight off the bushing. It'll take a fair old bit.
Remove 3 mounting nuts.
Remove bushing bolt.. You may need to manipulate the jack a tad to help it withdraw - if you've ever removed the front shock fork - lower arm bolt you'll know what to do. A tap from a rawhide hammer and a suitable drift will help.
Now... The mount is unbolted, but removal is tricky. I used the workshop manual method.... Seems rather hairy, but there we go.... What you do is lower the jack, causing the gearbox to drop down. It'll drop several inches. Eventually you'll be able to waggle the mounting past the studs and out. Another way would be to get a set of stud extractors and take the mounting studs out the gearbox - this would save a lot of faffing with the jack.

Rear Mount:

Assuming you've already remvoed the gearbox mount. If not, get the crossmember out the way and support the gearbox

Airbox & MAF out.
Turbo inlet 'Y' pipe (behind MAF) and rear turbo flexi pipe out (the clips on these have 10mm nuts on them, but they can be very awkward to get at!
Evaportation canister out (a simple clip, unless like mine some mong's been at work and bolted the clip upside down at some point -making it impossible to refit!/pan)
This will give you limited, but enough access. Now... long extension bar and 14mm socket on the back two bolts on the top of the mount. It *will* fit, the pipes that look like they're going to get in the way will move backwards a bit (into the padded heat sheilding) and give you JUST enough room to get the socket on the nut.
The bushing nut & bolt can be tight. However, if you put an extension bar on the nut, you will be able to get a breaker bar on the end of that and have enough 'swing' to operate it.
Then tackle the nut underneath. Seeing as you'll be quite a way underneath the car, make sure the gearbox is securely supported. I used an axle stand. On the refit I also used my engine hoist as a failsafe too.

That's only a very basic guide off the top of my head. The biggest headache is the rear mount, because of the limited space.

Axeboy
21-01-2007, 10:06 PM
Nice one :)

My mounts *seem* to be fine, but its something I might add to the 'todo' list..

Cheers K

BraindG
29-01-2007, 04:59 PM
Kieran,

Where did you get your flexane from?

im assuming its all pretty much the same stuff? Are there know "Better" brands?

Kieran
29-01-2007, 05:53 PM
Flexane's really your only choice. I got mine from www.frost.co.uk - a treasure trove of restoration tools and supplies!:scholar:

BraindG
29-01-2007, 06:10 PM
Flexane's really your only choice. I got mine from www.frost.co.uk - a treasure trove of restoration tools and supplies!:scholar:
cool, thank you... now where did i put my credit card.

I-S
20-12-2007, 05:46 PM
Flexane can be obtained more cheaply from RS (www.rswww.com) and Farnell (uk.farnell.com). RS are £2 cheaper than farnell, but Farnell do free shipping.

I'm looking at this, although with GDI engine mounts at about £107 for all 5 (not sure where the 5th one is!), I may not bother...

Kieran
20-12-2007, 06:03 PM
Seeing your reply reminds me I need to touch base on this one, Isaac....

The flexane mountings have been in operation on my car for a year. Cash allowing I will be replacing all four engine mounts with brand new standard parts this winter.

The flexane mounts are still serviceable and it's still a good, cheap solution if you need a cheap, effective repair to get your car going and you can't afford to wait for a fresh set from Japan.

However, having driven a car with 'good' standard mounts, the flexane units don't compare very well. Their solidity results in quite high levels of NVH and you do 'feel' the car. I was quite taken aback recently when I drove Miller's car at just how silent and vibration free his passenger cabin is.

Overall, I consider flexane to be a repair, not a replacement.:scholar:

zentac
20-12-2007, 08:19 PM
why doesnt someone talk to a polly bush maker and get som polly ones made up, thats what I have in the FTO.

Kieran
20-12-2007, 08:29 PM
why doesnt someone talk to a polly bush maker and get som polly ones made up, thats what I have in the FTO.

I have wondered about that but then I don't really think there's demand - Flexane is similar durometer to polly and unless you're building a monster car I think the NVH trade-off would be too much for most people.

BTW, what's the latest on the FTO O'Death? How many squillion BHP now?

peter thomson
20-12-2007, 10:09 PM
I thought Taka Kaira already supplied a set of polybushes but they may be too rigid for a road car.

Ryan
26-12-2007, 11:08 PM
This may sound silly but what do the engine mounts look like / how do i check to see if they are in good nick?

zentac
27-12-2007, 12:54 AM
BTW, what's the latest on the FTO O'Death? How many squillion BHP now?

Still building it, going for an all out racer, new fuel system, all new pipework new electronics..... it will be ready soon.

bradc
27-12-2007, 04:56 AM
Ryan, the two lowest ones are hard to see, there is one at the front of the engine and one at the back. There is one on either side of the engine near the suspension arms, those two are easy to see. Basically if they are split then it is time to replace them. If your engine rocks around a bit then it is also time to replace them.

Ryan
27-12-2007, 10:47 PM
Thanks :D

Beastlee
22-02-2009, 05:50 PM
Dragging up an old thread here as just found out I need to replace three of the mounts. The gearbox one was done just before I bought it and now the other three are so bad that changing between D and R, and vice versa, moves the engine so violently you could use it as a catapult in a siege!

When I had the SAAB 9000 I fitted poly bushes to the upper engine mount, the dog-bone as it's called, which vastly improved things. Admittedly the vibrations were more noticeable, but then I feel they would be even for replacing with fresh OEM ones, although it gave excellent feedback of the engine.
The ones fitted were a two-piece affair, you press out the old ones and insert the new ones from each side. They protude slightly and are held in place by the fact they are held within a surrounding bracket so I figure that as long as we could find the correct diameter you could fit similar ones from an alternative car.

Personally I think poly bushes are a must of you plan on any tweaking the engine just to reduce any additional forces on the mounts and then the exhaust.

peter thomson
22-02-2009, 05:58 PM
You must have missed this thread Lee


http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35704&highlight=engine+mounts

Beastlee
16-05-2009, 08:31 AM
Was going to apologise for dragging up an old thread but seems I did that the other month LOL.

Well I currently have three (front, rear and driver's side) genuine mounts and am looking to fit them. I'm not sure I'll be able to manage the rear one but I'm guessing that if I can get the front and side ones done things should improve a little. I'm waiting out a little longer before I consider the poly versions.

As Kieran has provided a basic level guide for us all I'll try to get some pics as I go and make them available for a guide but no doubt I'll start working and find too many issues to remember.

pixelplay
28-03-2013, 09:02 AM
If the items are sold outside of NZ they wont have to pay the GST as in only applies to items sold inside the country. :)


all prices (NZD) have 12.5% tax ontop of them

JCMR198381 @ 50.00+ gst
JCMR235603 @ 80.00+ gst
JCMR198377 @ 145.00+ gst
JCMR198388 @ 115.00+gst

Davezj
29-03-2013, 12:06 AM
thread from the dead revival.
the unanswered have now been answered.

love it when these get resurected as info once lost can come to the forfront again.