Loss of drive.

[Nick Mann]

Oh dear.

[pezza]

Oh dear.


No no! :embarasse

was that this morning?

No pre warning of something about to die?

[Nick Mann]

A big bang (felt and heard) as the car changed from 3rd to 4th, followed by a complete loss of drive.

The car starts and runs fine, but select R or D and nothing happens. I have now discovered that if I put the car in D and rev, the speedo shows speed rising and the box changes up through the gears.

I therefore believe the problem to be something on the output side.

Anyone any ideas? Or parts? Or an impulse to fix somebody elses car?

[Nick Mann]

Following Pezz's Q, it should be noted:

I was WOT when the bang occurred and the change from 3rd to 4th has been interesting since I bought the car. It quite often has thumped into gear, or felt like it had a power loss, or revved in neutral between the gears as it changed.

And yes, it was this morning. I supose I ought to go and catch a train or something. How does public transport work!?!?! :rolleyes4

[zedy1]

looks like the gearbox or possibly transfer box and maybe a drive shaft

[Nick Mann]

Yeah, Mo. Now I have found the speedo thing I think your list is about right. I am away this weekend, but as soon as I have an idea about what is bust, I will give you a call!!

[pezza]

Sounds painful whatever has snapped between gearbox output and wheels :embarasse

Just fingers crossed its not pricy to fix ....

Has this brought forward the thoughts of conversion to manual??? :inquisiti

[Wodjno]

Sorry sight to see :sick: Hope it's not to serious.. :inquisiti

[Kieran]

Off topic a second, but did the RAC know to send a flat loader, or did you have to tell them it was a 4WD car?

[SGHOM]

perhaps we could combine the bonfire party weekend with a gearbox replacement weekend !! :rolleyes4
I'll light the sparklers ! :embarasse :embarasse

[richy rich]

sooooooo sooooory to see and here this nick.
give me a shout if you want help changing box it would be good if it is transfer box as this is quite an easy job compared to box out and in.

[Kieran]

perhaps we could combine the bonfire party weekend with a gearbox replacement weekend !! :rolleyes4
I'll light the sparklers ! :embarasse :embarasse

Excellent idea!! We can also investigate why Ariadne has taken to marking her territory with ATF each time she stops!! :embarasse :rolleyes4

(Sorry - 2 utterly non-constructive posts :embarasse /pan )

[richy rich]

the way its going wouter and i should start a new company changing vr4 gear boxes

[adam_shaw]

Oh no....

[Nick Mann]

Kieran, I told them it was a 4WD car with auto transmission and that I had lost all drive. The low loader was sent as a result of that info.

And yes, I think a combination fireworks/mechanical party is on the cards!! I'll start a new thread.

The more I think about it, the more I am sure that Mo's diagnosis is right. I suspect that it will be the linkage from the gearbox output shaft. Only because that will be most expensive and time consuming!!

[Brunty]

Nick, you know I'm not around for the next couple of weekends - but if I can be of any help just give me a call.


the way its going wouter and i should start a new company changing vr4 gear boxes

Yes you should!

[Physician]

Agggh! Sorry to see that Nick. :embarasse

[bernmc]

Just fingers crossed its not pricy to fix ....
Feck, Pez - you're a card:D! Vr4 & cheap???? Must have been using those medicinal herbs again :D:D:D!

I'm working for the next two w/ends Nick, but I think I'm off the next - will try to come & help if you're fixing then - Reddich is just down the road...

[Spirit]

Nick

So sorry to hear of your problem mate........seems like so many of us are having issues right now. Hope is not as bad as it sounds :embarasse

[The Vee]

OOps just found this bad news, unfortunately, have to concur with Mo :embarasse Hope it's not so bad and fixed soon

[HJM]

Oh no - sorry to read this Nick - hope it's all sorted as easily as possible /yes

[psbarham]

damn thats a sick sight , i hope you get it sorted soon

[Paul Beazer]

Nick thats a real bummer to hear. You can always borrow the old v6 if you're really desperate!
Hope you get it sorted soon!

[Wodjno]

Oh dear.

Just a thought Nick.. /Hmmm

Will you putting this snap forward for the 2006 calender.. /pan

Just another thought, is there a calender for 2006 yet :inquisiti

[Spirit]

Just another thought, is there a calender for 2006 yet :inquisiti

You volunteering mate ? :thumbsup:

[Paul Beazer]

Any news on the problems yet nick?

[Nick Mann]

Nope. Was going to start tonight, but knackered so am putting it off. Dinner will be ready in 25 mins, then its an early night to prepare me for a proper go at it tomorrow evening!

[richy rich]

nick I'm trying to do a right up for you.

[Wodjno]

You volunteering mate ? :thumbsup:

Sorry Pete missed your reply.. I can certainly enquire .. A mate of mine owns his own direct mail and printing company, i'm sure we can arrange summat.. Is Derek not already not aquired the job ??

[Nick Mann]

Well, the car is now well and truly jacked up. The driveshafts are all okay, as when I spin a front wheel, the other front wheel rotates in the opposite direction and the propshaft clunks as it takes up the slack in the rear diff.

Next step is to start stripping it all down I guess. :embarasse

I think that this means the transfer box is okay to a point, too, as there is no grinding / rattling as I spin the wheels. So my best guess at the moment is the join between the t/f box and the gearbox.

[Paul Beazer]

Any closer to the source of the problem Nick?

[Nick Mann]

The driveshafts and propshaft are now off. The transfer box is loose but still in place. I am relatively sure that the gearbox is to blame for my woes, but I have not yet proved that!

[Nick Mann]

Well I broke it!

I think what I have broken is the output shaft. Graham has done this in the past, I think, so I guess that a rise in power tests this particular component.

I shall post some pictures up soon!

MASSIVE thanks to all who came and helped me finish the job. Especially to Rich who didn't stop working all weekend! Top bloke. Rich and Wouter are starting to sound like an old married couple whilst working on cars!!

Thanks also to Mo for a good deal on the replacement box.

All in all a good weekend for me - if a little expensive! :thumbsup:

I'm back!! /Steeringw

[Paul Beazer]

Glad to hear it! Shame its always expensive bits that break! Still, its the nature of the beast! :thumbsup:

[Nick Mann]

Here is the broken bit. I have only one thing to say........

RAW POWER!!! :evil2: /Steeringw

[SGHOM]

Are you still sure we cant straighten it Nick ?? :embarasse :embarasse

[Wouter]

Are you still sure we cant straighten it Nick ?? :embarasse :embarasse

Yeah!! And I am sure we can super glue it back on!!

SGHOM = /pan

[richy rich]

Yeah!! And I am sure we can super glue it back on!!

SGHOM = /pan
super glue will work im sure, glue it back in flog it.

[bernmc]

Here is the broken bit. I have only one thing to say........

RAW POWER!!! :evil2: /Steeringw
Ye gods. Why don't you look into getting something stronger manufactured, nick... may be worth it in the long run if it's done this before..

[richy rich]

Ye gods. Why don't you look into getting something stronger manufactured, nick... may be worth it in the long run if it's done this before..
Bern there was quite a discussion about that sat night, and the out come is i think that nick will be investigating this using the old box to strip down and have a look.

[enigma]

Bern there was quite a discussion about that sat night, and the out come is i think that nick will be investigating this using the old box to strip down and have a look.

Was this the conversation that IT specialist Wouter talked about machining a shaft after it had been hardened and insisted he was right? After all what does Vicky know, she is only a woman!!!! /pan

[Brunty]

Was this the conversation that IT specialist Wouter talked about machining a shaft after it had been hardened and insisted he was right? After all what does Vicky know, she is only a woman!!!! /pan

LOL!!!

[enigma]

Was this the conversation that IT specialist Wouter talked about machining a shaft after it had been hardened and insisted he was right? After all what does Vicky know, she is only a woman!!!! /pan

I will let Wouter explain what it is that Vicky does for a living :rolleyes4

[Wodjno]

What is the original shaft made from ??

[ariddell]

Playdoh by the looks of it.....

That's quite impressively snapped, good going! /yes

[Wodjno]

It looks like its been a progressive weakening of the shaft.. I cant see how suddenly it can just go .. I mean a lot more power than what Nicks running has been put throught those shafts and they haven't gone bang.. It has been twisting up for quite some time now i reckon. But it got to the point where enough was enough..

[The Vee]

It looks like its been a progressive weakening of the shaft.. I cant see how suddenly it can just go .. I mean a lot more power than what Nicks running has been put throught those shafts and they haven't gone bang.. It has been twisting up for quite some time now i reckon. But it got to the point where enough was enough..

Watch out you Launchers !! /grr /pan :rolleyes4 /Hmmm

[Nick Mann]

It looks like its been a progressive weakening of the shaft.. I cant see how suddenly it can just go .. I mean a lot more power than what Nicks running has been put throught those shafts and they haven't gone bang.. It has been twisting up for quite some time now i reckon. But it got to the point where enough was enough..


I agree with this. I think that the thumping I got into 4th occaisonally was the problem. However, I would like to have a chat with Graham the next time I see him - I don't know how bad his shaft got or what he had put it through before it went.

I would also guess that all of us who give the box a bit of abuse have twisted these shafts to some extent. Unfortunately, it is not all that easy to find out! :rolleyes4

[Wodjno]

I agree with this. I think that the thumping I got into 4th occaisonally was the problem. However, I would like to have a chat with Graham the next time I see him - I don't know how bad his shaft got or what he had put it through before it went.

I would also guess that all of us who give the box a bit of abuse have twisted these shafts to some extent. Unfortunately, it is not all that easy to find out! :rolleyes4

So seems like a good idea then to try and source someone to manufacture some out of a higher grade material. /Hmmm
Regarding what Graham has put is through. I'm sure i remember a conversation with him that mentioned 1.3 bar. :inquisiti :rolleyes4

[richy rich]

Was this the conversation that IT specialist Wouter talked about machining a shaft after it had been hardened and insisted he was right? After all what does Vicky know, she is only a woman!!!! /pan
thats the one
wouter nows best :embarasse /pan /pan /grr

[richy rich]

Rich and Wouter are starting to sound like an old married couple whilst working on cars!!
what you saying nick. /grr
hows the car running nick

[Nick Mann]

Gear change is getting better but I am having some shudder issues. I am desperately hoping that the brain sorts it all out soon!

[richy rich]

Gear change is getting better but I am having some shudder issues. I am desperately hoping that the brain sorts it all out soon!
explain more

[Wodjno]

Gear change is getting better but I am having some shudder issues. I am desperately hoping that the brain sorts it all out soon!

Keep Chugging.. It'll smooth out .. /yes Around 600miles normally in my car.. :inquisiti Although each car will be different . /Steeringw

[psbarham]

what sort of shudder is it ?

[richy rich]

does it do it in tip as well as D
have you checked the atf again.
i had to much in and it didn't work properly check out my thread when i changed my box.

[Nick Mann]

The shudder I think is to do with lock-up in 4th/5th. At low revs on low to medium throttle.

I haven't yet re-checked my ATF. I will do next time I am parked on the flat!

[richy rich]

nick this is from my thread
OK Ive had a few small prob with my box.
1 when going down one particular road its down hill just after a speed hump
the car jumped a bit.
2 gear changes a bit funny cant explain it well
3 slight smell of atf burning (come to the conclusion only oil that spilt on box).

Ive just checked atf i had to much in it drained 1/2l off
and steam cleaned engine

all working fine now, even on hill descent on a hill near me it it is a 15% down hill normally its in 4th and feels like its running away, today went in to 4th then after 2-3 sec went in to 3rd and held the car down the hill.
also prob 1&2 gone.

[Wodjno]

The shudder I think is to do with lock-up in 4th/5th. At low revs on low to medium throttle.

I haven't yet re-checked my ATF. I will do next time I am parked on the flat!

I have had that shudder since i got my car.. If you are at lowish revs in 4th or 5th and you have it in Tip and excellerate fairly hard you feel a shudder.. The more you get up the rev range the less you fell it.. So it's obviously load related. /yes But i've been running it like that now for nearly 2 years.. /yes It was not noticeable before i put my boost controller on though.. Is this what your getting Nick . /Hmmm

[psbarham]

I have had that shudder since i got my car.. If you are at lowish revs in 4th or 5th and you have it in Tip and excellerate fairly hard you feel a shudder.. The more you get up the rev range the less you fell it.. So it's obviously load related. /yes But i've been running it like that now for nearly 2 years.. /yes It was not noticeable before i put my boost controller on though.. Is this what your getting Nick . /Hmmm
i think thats more down to the soft engine mount i noticed on sunday

[Nick Mann]

I have had that shudder since i got my car.. If you are at lowish revs in 4th or 5th and you have it in Tip and excellerate fairly hard you feel a shudder.. The more you get up the rev range the less you fell it.. So it's obviously load related. /yes But i've been running it like that now for nearly 2 years.. /yes It was not noticeable before i put my boost controller on though.. Is this what your getting Nick . /Hmmm

Similar. Happens in tip and in drive. Only feel it when the revs are under 2000 in 4th or 5th. As soon as I give it enough gas so that the lock-up disengages and the TC starts slipping, the shudder seems to go.

Is the lock up part of the TC? I guess not - otherwise it could lock in any gear?

[Wodjno]

Similar. Happens in tip and in drive. Only feel it when the revs are under 2000 in 4th or 5th. As soon as I give it enough gas so that the lock-up disengages and the TC starts slipping, the shudder seems to go.

Is the lock up part of the TC? I guess not - otherwise it could lock in any gear?

It shudder starts to go when the lock up disengages whilst its kicking down because there is less load on the engine. ! But wot the ruddy judder is i have no idea.. I drive in tip 95% of the time and if i ever accelerate i am always in the right gear before hand . Just as you wouyld be if you were driving a manual.. So i don't suffer from it anymore because i'm not putting the engine under to much load.. But i know it's still there /help

[Kieran]

/wall

I'm gonna make up a rubber stamp so I can blat this on your foreheads each time you ask!! /pan /grr

/Dusts off soapbox... :soapbox:

The 4th/5th gear 'shudder' that you're all getting is almost certainly down your ATF choice!! I spent ages researching and writing about it, testing my theories on my own VR-4 (which was also doing this when I bought if off Nick).

Ranting aside for a minute, ignore this shudder at your peril.... if it goes long term and you keep letting it do it, you'll eventually cause the premature failure of your clutch packs, just ask Pescha!! /yes

CLICK ME (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=85822&postcount=5)


You can read my full article (the above link is an excerpt) here:

Full Article (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10125)

[Nick Mann]

Kieran - this is 100 times worse than your car was. On the same fluid.

[Kieran]

Kieran - this is 100 times worse than your car was. On the same fluid.

Not good news..... Suggests that you need another flush (there will be some old fluid in there). It could also be (and I really hope not) that the clutch packs are already worn somewhat.... That's what they do - Read on any US Mitsu/Chrysler site - The longer it's shuddering, the worse it will get! /help

[Wodjno]

Kieren ... When i first got the car i ain't to sure what was in the gearbox although it was last serviced at a Ralliart Garage. /yes Now i have Amsoil :happy: Now are you telling me this is bad .. :inquisiti

2 years of shudderng but it ain't no worse.. /Hmmm


/wall



The 4th/5th gear 'shudder' that you're all getting is almost certainly down your ATF choice!! I spent ages researching and writing about it, testing my theories on my own VR-4 (which was also doing this when I bought if off Nick).


CLICK ME (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=85822&postcount=5)


You can read my full article (the above link is an excerpt) here:

Full Article (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10125)

[zedy1]

Not good news..... Suggests that you need another flush (there will be some old fluid in there). It could also be (and I really hope not) that the clutch packs are already worn somewhat.... That's what they do - Read on any US Mitsu/Chrysler site - The longer it's shuddering, the worse it will get! /help


you dont wanna be saying that :embarasse , nick if your not happy with the box ill have it back. ill try to ask the privious keeper if had any problems with the box

[Nick Mann]

you dont wanna be saying that :embarasse , nick if your not happy with the box ill have it back. ill try to ask the privious keeper if had any problems with the box

Don't panic yet, Mo! I've only done about 60 miles in it so far.

If the gear change keeps getting better I'll try some of Kierans miracle additive. Maybe it is this partial lock-up thing!

I am only worried because I have never had a box being this awkward for this long after a fluid change or ecu reset.

[Kieran]

Sorry Mo! I wasn't really thinking that!! :embarasse :embarasse I think in all honesty a fluid flush and a few more miles will see it right /yes :thumbsup:


Apologies to all for my ranting!! :oops: :embarasse

[psbarham]

if its really bad nick , have a look at the obvoius things first , g/box oil as rich said , then engine mounts , don't forget 2 of these were disturbed at the weekend and they have done over 100,000 miles after all so don't expect them to be shop fresh , if the have gone soft then the g/box maybe sat on the cross member and sending vibrations through the shell which feel really bad when the car is under full load ( part throttle t/c locked )

[zedy1]

if its really bad nick , have a look at the obvoius things first , g/box oil as rich said , then engine mounts , don't forget 2 of these were disturbed at the weekend and they have done over 100,000 miles after all so don't expect them to be shop fresh , if the have gone soft then the g/box maybe sat on the cross member and sending vibrations through the shell which feel really bad when the car is under full load ( part throttle t/c locked )


dont you mean 3 mounts paul

nick and k, like i said i didnt drive this car so i cant say what the box was like

[richy rich]

if its really bad nick , have a look at the obvoius things first , g/box oil as rich said , then engine mounts , don't forget 2 of these were disturbed at the weekend and they have done over 100,000 miles after all so don't expect them to be shop fresh , if the have gone soft then the g/box maybe sat on the cross member and sending vibrations through the shell which feel really bad when the car is under full load ( part throttle t/c locked )
that remindes me the engine did seem to to rotate a lot when put in gear.

[richy rich]

dont you mean 3 mounts paul

nick and k, like i said i didnt drive this car so i cant say what the box was like
yes 3 not 2 paul /pan

[psbarham]

dont you mean 3 mounts paul

nick and k, like i said i didnt drive this car so i cant say what the box was like
sorry 3 mounts forgot the one at the back :embarasse , maybe thats the problem , so did rich and wouter /Hmmm /pan

[richy rich]

i did tell nick there was 1 mount still in box, /STP he ashored me it was from old box

[zedy1]

also check the bolts which hold the two plates together from the inspection plate /yes

[Wouter]

also check the bolts which hold the two plates together from the inspection plate /yes

Inspection plate??? What inspection plate!!

[zedy1]

Inspection plate??? What inspection plate!!

the one with a 10mm and 14mm bolt under the engine /grr

[Wouter]

the one with a 10mm and 14mm bolt under the engine /grr

What I was trying to say was that Nick's car does not have one.....

In fact it has so many odd and missing bolts it could have been built on Scrap Heap challange!!

Good breaks tho! :thumbsup:

[Nick Mann]

100 miles now and I think the gear changes are getting better. I will order some Lubeguard Black and see if that solves the shudder.

I have decided that I will start giving it a bit of stick and seeing if it that kicks it into shape!! :p

[richy rich]

100 miles now and I think the gear changes are getting better. I will order some Lubeguard Black and see if that solves the shudder.

I have decided that I will start giving it a bit of stick and seeing if it that kicks it into shape!! :p
just kick it nick that will work just as well :joker:

[Wodjno]

100 miles now and I think the gear changes are getting better. I will order some Lubeguard Black and see if that solves the shudder.

I have decided that I will start giving it a bit of stick and seeing if it that kicks it into shape!! :p
I wouldn't give it to much stick Nick( hey that rhymes) /help Cos if it does a clunk change then you could be back to square 1 :inquisiti /pan

[Nick Mann]

I wouldn't give it to much stick Nick

:embarasse :embarasse

too late!!

See the G-tech thread! :evil2:

To be fair, it is 2nd to 3rd and 4th to 5th where the change is still not good. The rest are settling in quite well now.

If the shudder goes with the additive then I think it will all be okay.

[Nick Mann]

Additive has arrived! I will be testing the lubeguard black tomorrow. :thumbsup:

[Kieran]

Additive has arrived! I will be testing the lubeguard black tomorrow. :thumbsup:

If I were you I'd flush it first - on the basis that the remainder of the aold ATF can be fetched out and the new stuff put in. You'll need almost the entire bottle of Lubeguard - exact dosage is on the back :thumbsup:

[richy rich]

give me the full update when done pls

[Polabear]

Here is the broken bit. I have only one thing to say........

RAW POWER!!! :evil2: /Steeringw

Well Nick, if that is the main output shaft, in all my years of engineering it is the first time I have ever seen a hollow one, no bloody wonder they are prone to trashing themselves.... /help no consolation I know, but glad you now have it sorted and are back on the road.... :thumbsup:

[enigma]

Well Nick, if that is the main output shaft, in all my years of engineering it is the first time I have ever seen a hollow one, no bloody wonder they are prone to trashing themselves.... /help no consolation I know, but glad you now have it sorted and are back on the road.... :thumbsup:

I read once that hollow shafts can be engineered to be better than solid ones!

[psbarham]

Well Nick, if that is the main output shaft, in all my years of engineering it is the first time I have ever seen a hollow one, no bloody wonder they are prone to trashing themselves.... /help no consolation I know, but glad you now have it sorted and are back on the road.... :thumbsup:
sh!t i only just noticed that , wtf were mitsubishi playing at when they designed that ,the next question is what other design fook ups are there in the box then :inquisiti

[Polabear]

I read once that hollow shafts can be engineered to be better than solid ones!


having worked on high torque boxes ranging from cranes to marine engines have still never seen a hollow mainshaft, as far as I can see the only possible reason for that is of a weight saving one, and when your shafting that much raw power through a single shaft I know I would want a solid shaft.

[Nick Mann]

The shaft is hollow to the transfer box because the driveshaft from the transfer box to the near side wheel goes back through the centre of it.

I am sure it can be engineered to be stronger - I just need to find someone who can!

[Wodjno]

The shaft is hollow to the transfer box because the driveshaft from the transfer box to the near side wheel goes back through the centre of it.

I am sure it can be engineered to be stronger - I just need to find someone who can!

That seems a good enough reason to make it hollow /yes :rolleyes4

Sounds like a good plan to see if we can get a stonger one manufactured. /Hmmm I think the longer time go's on and the power of these cars increase then there is going to be a demand for these things. /yes

Hows about Titanium :inquisiti :evil2:

[Paul Beazer]

I would guess at Ti being too flexible. If i remember correctly its less dense too! Whilst it has a better fatigue life, i would imagine the cost of the raw materials + machine work required would be prohibitively expensive! To give you an idea a good quality steel mountain bike frame would cost you £500 max, whereas a good quality Ti frame would cost at least double, possibly more. Good old fashioned hardened steel for me please!

[Wodjno]

Does anybody know the part number for the output shaft ? Dimensions, splines etc /Hmmm

[amsoil]

If you want shafts made stronger/ higher spec get onto Gearace. They have made specials for me in the past and make / design trannys. From the look of the twist you have just overloaded the thing not a fault just not designed/made to a high enough spec for the power and grip level put through it.

[psbarham]

looks like we ain't the only ones having this little problem ping (http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=94981)

[Nick Mann]

Several beers for the first man that finds out where or who BTM are!

BDA obviously has a head start!! :rolleyes4

That shaft is exactly the same, along with the whole assembly that it fits in inside the gearbox!!

[Wodjno]

Several beers for the first man that finds out where or who BTM are!

BDA obviously has a head start!! :rolleyes4

That shaft is exactly the same, along with the whole assembly that it fits in inside the gearbox!!



Are these they ?? :inquisiti

http://www.btmindustries.com/page2.htm

[HJM]

Not sure about BTM but in this (http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65420&highlight=BTM+Prep) thread, they mention R&D in Daventry - any use?

[Nick Mann]

Not sure about BTM but in this (http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65420&highlight=BTM+Prep) thread, they mention R&D in Daventry - any use?

Already sent an e-mail to the Daventry people! I will always listen to Mr Roger Rally!! :smug:

[HJM]

Already sent an e-mail to the Daventry people! I will always listen to Mr Roger Rally!! :smug:

Sorry - only trying to help!

[Nick Mann]

Sorry - only trying to help!

And it was appreciated! Please ignore me if I am coming over ungrateful. /pan A moment where great minds........ and all that. /yes

[HJM]

And it was appreciated! Please ignore me if I am coming over ungrateful. /pan A moment where great minds........ and all that. /yes


:D :D

[Nick Mann]

Another interesting read. (http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64584)

[psbarham]

Another interesting read. (http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=64584)
good price as well , for the work involved in machining it and then induction hardening it its not bad at all

[enigma]

Or here

3si (http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=196966&page=1&pp=10)

[Nick Mann]

Several beers for the first man that finds out where or who BTM are!

That was never going to work, 'cause they are not BTM but BTR (http://www.btrprep.com/contact.htm)!

And the ping thread (http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=94981) that psb posted about previously was the god-send! Thanks all!!

In summary:

Output shafts are made of chocolate. Uprated ones from BTR are around £170 but he has never known anyone break one of theirs. I will check sizes tomorrow and then hopefully prove that our output shaft is the same as the Evo.

:thumbsup:

[Wodjno]

That was never going to work, 'cause they are not BTM but BTR (http://www.btrprep.com/contact.htm)!:
/pan /pan


And the ping thread (http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=94981) that psb posted about previously was the god-send! Thanks all!!

In summary:

Output shafts are made of chocolate. Uprated ones from BTR are around £170 but he has never known anyone break one of theirs. I will check sizes tomorrow and then hopefully prove that our output shaft is the same as the Evo.

:thumbsup:

Sounds good .. :thumbsup: Hope they are :thumbsup:

[The Vee]

what a result if they are. and the cost not half as bad as I would've imagined

[psbarham]

just a thought, if they are already tooled up to produce the right splines and internal and external diameters then the length shouldn't be an issue , they can just trim it to suit , they will get a long length made up and then they will trim it to length and put the circlip groove on so any length should be a piece of wee wee ( possibly)

[richy rich]

just a thought, if they are already tooled up to produce the right splines and internal and external diameters then the length shouldn't be an issue , they can just trim it to suit , they will get a long length made up and then they will trim it to length and put the circlip groove on so any length should be a piece of wee wee ( possibly)
i don't think this is pos able as i don't think it just a strait shaft.

[psbarham]

i don't think this is pos able as i don't think it just a strait shaft.
????????? you trying to say its bent , that was nicks original one , the new ones look slightly better ;)

[richy rich]

no i think it has got a flange or something on it we tried to get the rest of the shaft out it would not budge

[enigma]

no i think it has got a flange or something on it we tried to get the rest of the shaft out it would not budge

but you were only 'tapping' it with that 5lb club hammer!

[richy rich]

looking on drawing as well it looks like is a flange at least.

[Nick Mann]

The only thing on the flange is a circlip. The circlip is holding the remains of my shaft on one side and the bent splines are holding it on the other. The circlip cannot be removed without sliding the shaft through the gear, which I can't do because of the bent splines. :rolleyes4 /help

That was why that toffee hammer being wielded by the 4ft weakling wasn't shifting anything! :p

AND the dimensions of the shaft appear to be spot on. I have measured mine as 175mm long - the replacements are 178. I would imagine that the twist has taken a bit off the length and the fact that I was only measuring with a tape accounts for the rest! On all other dimensions (measured with a vernier) I was within 0.2mm of the specifications of the replacement.

[richy rich]

i stand corrected
all hail nick :thumbsup:

[enigma]

So have you bought one yet?

I will buy one for the whitey :thumbsup:

Who fancies giving me a hand installing it?!

[richy rich]

So have you bought one yet?

I will buy one for the whitey :thumbsup:

Who fancies giving me a hand installing it?!
when are you thinking of dave if im free ill help :thumbsup:

[enigma]

It wont be here until the end of January! ;)

[richy rich]

ok mate i should be ok for that.

[Nick Mann]

I had to remove the bellhousing to get the shaft out. In the second picture you can see the similarity between this box and the evo manual box in the ping thread.

[Nick Mann]

The MLR photo below shows the whole output shaft assembly in pieces. I took my shaft out and it was exactly the same. If you imagine these pieces put back together and turned upside down, you should see the similarity between my photo and this one. !!! :rolleyes4

[enigma]

I took my shaft out and it was exactly the same.

you want to see a doctor!

[Nick Mann]

The other interesting thing is the bolt spacing from the bellhousing to the engine and the transfer box. Please compare this manual Evo VI box with my auto VR4 box above.

The bolt spacing are obviously not identical, but is it close enough so that the two or three that don't line up could be sorted?

[Nick Mann]

you want to see a doctor!

LOL! /pan

[Kieran]

Interesting info there Nick!

Did you get the internal filter out to see what shape that was in?

[Nick Mann]

Not yet! Gearbox dissection had only just begun!

[enigma]

I thought we knew the manual Evo 6 box was the same and would fit? Or was it just me?

[Wouter]

Nick,

Why don't you just buy a Evo 6 gearbox and mount the Bell housing from your old Auto box?

I suppose the gear ratio may be wrong....

[pezza]

Early plans for a evo manual conversion? /Hmmm

[psbarham]

has there been any update on the shaft yet ?

[Kieran]

has there been any update on the shaft yet ?

Yes - It's shafted. :joker:












/Gets coat and runs..... :embarasse

[psbarham]

Yes - It's shafted. :joker:












/Gets coat and runs..... :embarasse
stand still so i can hit you with the remains of the old one /pan

[Kieran]

stand still so i can hit you with the remains of the old one /pan

PMSL /lol /haz

[Nick Mann]

Nothing further yet to report. Hopefully now visiting relatives is nearly out of the way for another year, I'll get some time to try and get the thing sorted.

[richy rich]

nick give me a shout when you are going to change the box again,




the AA tream will come and help :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Nick Mann]

nick give me a shout when you are going to change the box again,




the AA tream will come and help :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


:smitten: :love: :iloveyou: :kiss: :sweethear

[richy rich]

/haz

[Nick Mann]

I took the 'sump' for want of a better description off this weekend. The actuators/solenoids are found there. I have pulled a few of the actuators off and had a good look at them, but I can't really tell much about their condition. I guess an electrical current is required to move the valve which you can't get at to move yourself, but I was unwilling to just wack 12v accross one to see what happened! ALl I could really tell was that there are six actuators and their 'o' rings are in good condition.

I also got to the internal filter. It pops in and out of position very easily with the bellhousing off the gearbox, but the only identifying mark on it appears to be the grade of plastic it is made from. (SAE PA66 + GF33%) The filter itself is only visible from the outlet side so it is very difficult to see how sludged up the filter is. I guess further enquiries are needed to find out where this filter can be bought.

Pictures will follow when I get the camera out to the garage in the daylight!

[richy rich]

picks pls nick

[Nick Mann]

Unfortunately, you will have to WAIT UNTIL I AM NOT AT WORK IN DAYLIGHT!!!!!!

[richy rich]

do you not have a flash

[Kieran]

do you not have a flash

Good point, well made!! /haz

[richy rich]

I'm only joking nick you take your own sweet time :joker:



we can wait :joker:

[Kieran]

BUMP!!!

Nick!! :soapbox: Do you want me to send you a photocopy of your digital camera's instruction book?! /pan

[richy rich]

i second that k





come on nick /grr :soapbox: /whip /Hissy

[Nick Mann]

Now quit your whinging!! /pan :rolleyes4

[richy rich]

thank you about time to

[Kieran]

And he still hasn't managed to take a picture of the internal filter! /pan