Suspension bushings - Caution!!

[Kieran]

As some of you may know, I took Airadne in to have her balljoints replaced today. /yes

I asked to see one of the old arms and the mechanic happily obliged.... It was a disturbing sight however.... :inquisiti :inquisiti

The actual balljoint (the bit that the recall is about) looked largely okay - it felt free and smooth, maybe a bit of 'play' but no 'grittiness' or obvious leaks.

The disturbing part was the condition of the other two bushings on the arm - the one that joins to the chassis and the one that the strut bolts on to... I have taken pictures with my camera phone and will post them later (once I've found my sync cable).

Both bushings were in very poor condition; the rubber had sheared on both of them, and one of them was heavily compressed - the metal eyelet was quite obviously no longer centered. The bushing that held the chassis mount looked like it had been 'torn' :inquisiti

With both arms now replaced, ride comfort and handling has significantly improved. In fairness, my car is now showing 100,000 miles and it's eight years old - so the wear is probably in keeping with the car's mileage and age.

Just a note of caution to those of you with Galants that have seen a lot of action, be that in terms of age, miles or track time.... Keep an eye on your bushings.... They may not be as healthy as you expect!! /help

[psbarham]

tell me about it , after i changed mine the difference was incredible , there was nearly 1/4 inch of up / down movement in each ball joint though :rolleyes4 to be honest though the bushes weren't to bad considering the miles and the state of the roads in lincolnsh!te ,just needs the tracking doing now

[ANTHONY]

so what models are covered under the recall

[pezza]

Very worth point Kieran!

I have spoken to a few other *enthusiastic* drivers of different cars and they all state the difference changes the suspension bushes made to their cars...

I understand that mitsu usually sell the whole arms and not individual bushes? Need to clarify that... Maybe the parts catalogue shows suspension break down?

I would like to try sorting the handling but not goin to lower the car with springs.. hopefully new bushes, better shocks and maybe rollbar??


I will try changing bushes first .. I think tired and worn bushes could be affecting the uneven wear on front tyres.. esp as my car has seen about 130K MILES.

Hoping to try some poly ones but not the hardest compound.. will report back when these are done!

[vampirej]

would places like PowerFlex do replacements?

[pezza]

would places like PowerFlex do replacements?


I dont think they have our cars listed but I have heard a few discouraging words about them on here...

I believe super pro list our cars...

Am likely to try these so can report back.... :thumbsup:

[Kieran]

Well, I can't be doing with this amount of slop any longer, so I have taken the plunge and subject to a reasonable shipping quote, I have decided to confirm my theory that the 2G USDM Mitsubishi Eclipse does indeed use the same suspension components as our VR-4s! :inquisiti

I have gone with these:

http://www.ptuning.com/html/Item-Desc.cfm?PartNo=PT5%2D18107&MakeCode=mitsub&ModelCode=eclips&ModelYear=1995%2D1999%20All%20%28Incl%20GSX%20AWD% 20and%20Spyder%29&ModelDesc=Eclipse

I will also shortly be ordering a can of Flexane to do the following:

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=166558

The only slight change here is that I will use Flexane '60' rather than '80' or '94'. Flexane 60 is a softer compound, so it should provide improved location of the engine and gearbox, but without causing excessive vibration.

I shall keep you posted.

(I hope I know what I'm doing here /help /help )

[pezza]

Everytime I mention suspension bush change there is this pause of realisation... I hear that some of them can be a real....PAIN? (I wont repeat the words of Zedy) :D

Is the suspension is dog to attack on these cars? (mind you if you have tackled alternator this could be easy for you) I guess a ramp would be handy?

Any special tools needed for changing bushes?

Anyone know?

:inquisiti

[psbarham]

Is the suspension is dog to attack on these cars? (mind you if you have tackled alternator this could be easy for you) I guess a ramp would be handy?

Any special tools needed for changing bushes?

Anyone know?

:inquisiti
the suspension on these is a piece of p!ss did all 4 springs and dampers on mine in under an hour , as for special tools the usual sockets, spanners hammers ,trolley jack , axle stands oh and the small matter of a 10 ton hydraulic press to press the old bushes out of the arms you may even need a set of oxy bottles as well if things get really tough , you could use a vice and hope the bushes move before the vice goes ping ( loud thud and swearing as cast iron ,suspension arm and 2 sockets hit your toes) all in all its not impossible to do at home but if you know anyone with all the kit then take it there , oh and make sure the bushes are exactaly the right size before you butcher the old ones

[Wodjno]

the suspension on these is a piece of p!ss did all 4 springs and dampers on mine in under an hour , as for special tools the usual sockets, spanners hammers ,trolley jack , axle stands oh and the small matter of a 10 ton hydraulic press to press the old bushes out of the arms you may even need a set of oxy bottles as well if things get really tough , you could use a vice and hope the bushes move before the vice goes ping ( loud thud and swearing as cast iron ,suspension arm and 2 sockets hit your toes) all in all its not impossible to do at home but if you know anyone with all the kit then take it there , oh and make sure the bushes are exactaly the right size before you butcher the old ones

So have you got a 10 ton hydraulic press
:inquisiti

[psbarham]

So have you got a 10 ton hydraulic press
:inquisiti
maybe ;)

[pezza]

maybe ;)


Where abouts are you in the UK PSB? /Hmmm

[psbarham]

Where abouts are you in the UK PSB? /Hmmm
lincolnsh!te , if you look at a map of england its right over on the right hand side , or if you look at the weather forcast on telly its the bit that doesn't have any weather :inquisiti

[Kieran]

Two questions Paul -

Would this be a suitable press?

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/product.asp?p=020410030&r=2054&g=107

And number 2, Some sites (I think Superflex tell you to do this) say that you can burn out the bushes rather than pressing 'em out.... Good idea/bad idea?

[psbarham]

Two questions Paul -

Would this be a suitable press?

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/product.asp?p=020410030&r=2054&g=107

And number 2, Some sites (I think Superflex tell you to do this) say that you can burn out the bushes rather than pressing 'em out.... Good idea/bad idea?
that'd do it :thumbsup: you can burn out the old ones if you want , ity all depends if you are using new or old arms , if you have new arms then you might want to keep the new bushes incase the poly ones are too firm and you cant be doing with it anymore and decide to put the rubbers back in , all depends what you want to do , the other problem with burning them out is the awful stench and smoke

[pezza]

Hmm interesting...

Kieran have you identified all the bushes like for like on the VR4? Do you hav replacements for all? I am assuming that a kit made for galants should take into account all the suspension bushes...

Is there a mitsu cutaway diagram anywhere showing the bushes? I know that some bushes are not avail from mitsu and only come already assembled with the control arms etc...

I have heard nothing about my recall as yet so dont know if I am entitled to new arms or not.. /Hmmm

Have you submitted your order already Kieran?

PSB I have read from one or two other members, that replacements can be a bit hard and noisy etc... am running standard suspension so .. fingers crossed :inquisiti

[psbarham]

PSB I have read from one or two other members, that replacements can be a bit hard and noisy etc... am running standard suspension so .. fingers crossed :inquisiti
they are noisy , we fitted a set to my mates old 1380 mini and the handling was incredible and it coped with the power (!?) a lot better , but by buggery was it noisier , so to cover up the increased road / suspension noise we fitted a jack knight straight cut gearbox , WHAT ??? well it covered the suspension noise up didn't it , on modern cars the noise is increased but more bearable , i have fitted sets to an RS turbo escort and a Sapphire cossie , and it was much less pronounced than the mini but with great benefits to handling as well

[Kieran]

Kieran have you identified all the bushes like for like on the VR4? Do you hav replacements for all? I am assuming that a kit made for galants should take into account all the suspension bushes...


No, i haven't identified them all - the kit that I linked to earlier is the Master kit for the Mitsubishi 95-99 Eclipse, which contains all the bushings I should need. I am confident enough that the two systems are identical to take the risk and buy something.




Is there a mitsu cutaway diagram anywhere showing the bushes? I know that some bushes are not avail from mitsu and only come already assembled with the control arms etc...


Err..... Pass!! This job ventures into previously unexplored areas - Like when I fitted a quickshift to Hordak.... Or an Alternator on a certain VR-4...... :inquisiti




Have you submitted your order already Kieran?

I have tried to - but they've not come back with a shipping quote yet, the silly sods /pan



I have read from one or two other members, that replacements can be a bit hard and noisy etc... am running standard suspension so .. fingers crossed :inquisiti

Same thoughts here Pezz. To be honest, a lot of the rubber bushes look so tired that I think the benefit of having suspension and transmission control back in specification will more than outweigh the NVH penalty. :happy:

[Kieran]

/grr

That US firm has still to work out how to click the 'Reply' button.... Just sent my third and final reminder before I look else where!!! /pan

In the meantime I've discovered that there are a few differences between the eclipse and our models. At the moment, I think it's just the design of a couple of the multi-link arms on the rear suspension - And I don't think it will affect the bushings. But again.... Without an Eclipse here to dismantle I can't be too sure!

I've also found another company called Prothane. Their bushings look more tempting... you get more in the kits and also, the ones that would normally need a press are two-part with new crush tubes and grease supplied, so installation would be about 47.3 million times easier.

More news coming on the KieranCorp 'Stop my VR4 from driving like a shed' newswire when I get it.... :rolleyes4 :rolleyes4

[ghanda]

Looking forward to an update Kieran - Its something I'm going to need to do fairly soon too. Any joy with that wiring diagram?

[pezza]

I will probably get my bushes sorted soon.... Will report back once I find out how they fit..

These have a few crush tubes included too...

Are there any upgraded anti roll bar kits/upgraded anti roll bushes avail..

I'd really lke to stiffen up handling without lowering if poss. So poaaibly shocks next year (koni's, KYB maybe) but still no part number for bilstein...

Wonder if Bern could find a part number on his ?


/Hmmm

[Kieran]

Well, the Energy suspension kit would cost about USD $42 shipped to the UK!

BUT....

I haven't yet decided. You see.... Prothane also do a kit....

1 - there's more bushings in the kit.

2 - the awkward ones are 2-part, so easier to fit.

Bad points are that it's a more expensive kit, and they are apparently harder than Energy suspension. How hard I can't say - trying to find info on US forums at the moment about them.

As an aside - whilst tidying my garage today, I had a closer look at the offside engine mount we replaced a while ago...... :inquisiti :inquisiti The main part of the bushing is only just hanging on - and there's some weird fluid oozing out of the middle of it - I always thought they were fluid-damped.... When I have more time I will perform a post-mortem and see how it works.... :inquisiti

[pezza]

Kieran, Was wondering if you ordered these bushes and if so, how far down your list till fitting?

GaryH too? Have you thought about fitting uprated bushes as you mentioned before?

I have the super pro ones already sat in the box (Both suspension and control arms) and still deciding on whether to fit them.

Having just had the recall work done, I may not need the control arm ones .. so.. :thinking:

[Kieran]

Kieran, Was wondering if you ordered these bushes and if so, how far down your list till fitting?

GaryH too? Have you thought about fitting uprated bushes as you mentioned before?

I have the super pro ones already sat in the box (Both suspension and control arms) and still deciding on whether to fit them.

Having just had the recall work done, I may not need the control arm ones .. so.. :thinking:

I haven't yet got my @rse in gear Pezz... Getting desperate as the amount of stuff I need to do to my VR-4 is starting to really bite my ass! /grr /Grrr /help

I haven't even ordered them yet. I have ruled out Prothane. By all acounts, they're easier to fit, but a US eclipse tuner sells both Prothane and Energy suspension. They reckon the Prothane is, in their own words "BOING!!" Hard.

It will come down to comparing Super Pro to Energy.... The more compliant of the two will go on the car.

And I must stop looking at 2G Eclipse air suspension systems...../help /help /pan

[ghanda]

...and I'm waiting for Kieran to make his mind up :D

[Kieran]

Well, I finally decided. I've gone for the Energy suspension setup. Mainly because Pezz has purchased the Super Pro busihngs - so when my kit arrives, we can see which manufacturer supplies the most bushings and we can also compare the hardness of the bushings and stuff.

Only ordered it from Ptuning last night, still waiting for them to contact me to process the order. I shall keep you all updated.

In case anyone's interested, the cost so far is $138USD for the kit (about £78) and I will confirm shipping when they've contacted me. It was $47USD before (about £26).

[Kieran]

Ptuning STILL haven't come back to me with a price./Grrr /Grrr

That's it! They can shove it! I do NOT expect to have to battle to get a response out of them each time I contact them!/Grrr

[Kieran]

Okay....

I've dropped a line to this company....

http://www.suspension.com/

If they respond, I'm going back to Ptuning and will suggest they go and watch the 'Big Bill Hells' motor advert!/Grrr

[Kieran]

I really don't f!!king believe this!! /grr /grr

WHAT THE FECK MUST I DO TO GET THEM TO FECKING SEND ME A SET OF BUSHINGS, FOUR PLACES NOW, NO FECKING JOY FROM ANY OF THEM! MY GOD, DO THESE PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND?! I WISH TO **PAY THEM MONEY*** IN ORDER TO GET A PRODUCT FROM THEM!!! IT'S REALLY NOT THAT HARD! FOR GODS SAKE!!!

[Kieran]

On a less ranty note....

Pezz - Have you got pictures of the Super Pro bushings you got?

[amsoil]

On a less ranty note....

Pezz - Have you got pictures of the Super Pro bushings you got?

Kieran; I get this all the time. I think its because you wont be an inbred relative redneck or swampie; I always now accompany any requiest for parts by telling them to post USPS which not only cuts cost but also apparently makes a spark fire in the brain that they wont have to make special trips send high and unacceptable estimates or travel to far away places to get the UPS or whatever service.

Works for me?

[Paul Beazer]

someone has issues......

[amsoil]

someone has issues......

Issues? I call tem challenges and experiences (comes from importing from the States and owning a racing car build in the States)

L.O.L. :happy: or :5shots:

[Kieran]

Kieran; I get this all the time. I think its because you wont be an inbred relative redneck or swampie; I always now accompany any requiest for parts by telling them to post USPS which not only cuts cost but also apparently makes a spark fire in the brain that they wont have to make special trips send high and unacceptable estimates or travel to far away places to get the UPS or whatever service.

Works for me?

Interesting. Might try that.

I'm thinking that I should set up my own importing business! I'll be the middle man who can deal with billy-joe-jim-bubba and his webbed feet cousins, and protect the innocent brit who just wants to pay some money and get some parts!

/Grrr :5shots:

[amsoil]

Interesting. Might try that.

I'm thinking that I should set up my own importing business! I'll be the middle man who can deal with billy-joe-jim-bubba and his webbed feet cousins, and protect the innocent brit who just wants to pay some money and get some parts!

/Grrr :5shots:


L.O.L The other thing that quickly becomes clear is the relatively layed back attitude in most places over there. I ordered some parts yesterday in the UK and they arrived this morning; its the way we work over here. In the States I swear that the order goes on the desk of the chap whos' on vacation just to teach him that all of America is always on vacation.

[BraindG]

I will also shortly be ordering a can of Flexane to do the following:

http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=166558

The only slight change here is that I will use Flexane '60' rather than '80' or '94'. Flexane 60 is a softer compound, so it should provide improved location of the engine and gearbox, but without causing excessive vibration.

Kieran, did anything ever happen about this?

Did you get your bushes?

[Kieran]

I ended up ordering the complete arms for the front as I was worried that Poly would be too harsh - having said that, if these bushes let go prematurely, I shall look to get poly ones.

I haven't yet done the rears as the only place to get replacement arms for the rears was mitsubishi. They do need doing, but at the time, the bill was going to be the thick end of £700 and I ran out of cash.

As for the Flexane for the engine mounts... This is still sat in my garage - I have decided, as the originals are fluid filled mounts o'weirdness that I will replace new for new. As such I haven't yet flexaned everything. Having said THAT, my gearbox mounts have completely collapsed now, so I may have to flexane that as a stopgap to prevent any damage.

[BraindG]

okay, thank you Kieran.

[psbarham]

K , where did you get the flexane from , uk or usa ? and how much ? my g/box mounts are well and truely shot , in fact any worse and i'l have a cracking collection of cats eyes in front of the car

[Kieran]

I got it from www.frost.co.uk. Cost about £30ish I think?

[psbarham]

I got it from www.frost.co.uk. Cost about £30ish I think?
cool thanks for that K . i havn't heard about frost for years, a real blast from the past

[Axeboy]

Just for info.

Pro Shop IIda sell uprated engine mounts.

[Kenneth]

I have created a flexane front engine mount and had it in my Legnum. It even survived the crash :P

it is way harder than the standard rubber, but still allows some flex. I noticed more vibration through to the cabin, but it wasn't harsh... more like a more positive feel of what RPM the car was doing.

[Kieran]

You used '80' flexane, didn't you Ken?

[Kenneth]

You used '80' flexane, didn't you Ken?

Yes I did :)

I am deffinatly going to put the urethane engine mount on the new car... I reckon it was well worth it

[Kieran]

Yes I did :)

I am deffinatly going to put the urethane engine mount on the new car... I reckon it was well worth it

Which mounting was it, and what benefit did it offer?

[Kenneth]

Which mounting was it, and what benefit did it offer?

It was the front mount.

Hard to describe the benefits as its mainly just the way the car feels. There is deffinatly less movement in the engine, there is a much more positive feel for engine RPM and It just felt more solid.