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View Full Version : Comin from the top or side?..what do you prefer?



You See
19-12-2005, 08:18 AM
I was talking about injectors you dirty boys!!... :evil2:
Are ours top or side feed?
Which is better and why?
Cheers :chugchug:

bradc
19-12-2005, 08:24 AM
search! it's your friend (translation, I can't remember if ours are top or side, and I'm too lazy to search for you) I think earlier evo injectors will fit straight in though. You could always get custom fuel rails made up, then you can run whatever you want.

The stock injectors are 390cc and as such are capable of approximately 470hp, so you won't need to change them until you upgrade your turbos.

You See
19-12-2005, 08:29 AM
search! it's your friend (translation, I can't remember if ours are top or side, and I'm too lazy to search for you) .
Ditto...hence this tread, hopefully someone will do the work for me! ...shhh don't tell no-one...it's our lil' secret! :inquisiti

AllBeItMine
19-12-2005, 05:51 PM
390 c.c.
Top feed
High imp
Oval connector
4 nzl
56 mm long.

lazy bastards.

don't think the evo injectors will fit.

bradc
19-12-2005, 07:43 PM
I had a suspicion that the evo3 injectors would fit. I managed to find a thread where valmes posted up the Sard part code we need, 63516, which are for 530cc injectors.

bradc
19-12-2005, 07:51 PM
http://perfectrun.com.au/performance%20parts/engine%20tuning%20parts/injector/sardinjectorframe.htm

Sard 63516, 530cc 4 nozzle, top feed, etc. Doesn't mention if it is an oval connection or how long it is though

You See
20-12-2005, 05:40 AM
lazy bastards
Thanks ABIM :P

bradc
20-12-2005, 07:46 AM
Uc, if you want to buy them, lets see if we can organise a group purchase, I'll buy 6, and hopefully someone else here will be interested as well

You See
20-12-2005, 07:51 AM
Sounds like a plan!....Who's interested in a set of SARD 530cc injectors?
So far:
Myself
Bradc

bradc
20-12-2005, 08:04 AM
it's probably going to be cheaper to get a set from the states or aussie, but have a chat to Garry about it when you're there next.

You See
20-12-2005, 08:47 AM
I wouldn't think it'll be that much cheaper than having contacts locally.

bradc
20-12-2005, 09:08 AM
you can get the injectors in the states for about US$115 each, with the exchange rate as it is at the moment, you're looking at $164 each, compared to ~$240 here. Quite a big differance.

You See
20-12-2005, 09:12 AM
$164+Freight+Insurance+Worries= :embarasse
$240-Contact discount (if anyone can hook us up)-Worries= :smug:
Well that's my theory/arguement anyway. :drummer:

bradc
20-12-2005, 09:13 AM
yeah, but it gives us bargaining room with the local guys ;)

You See
20-12-2005, 09:16 AM
Doubt they'd give a sh!t as you're not comparing it with other local guys...unless someone's heading over to Japan and buying them direct from the Manufacturer, I don't see a point of trying to drive a hard bargain.

ako
20-12-2005, 10:06 PM
I've got a shipment of injectors on the way at the moment. email me what you want at sales@nzperformance.co.nz, I'll see what I can do.

Looking at $200 per injector, I'll do a discount for you lot.

Kenneth
20-12-2005, 11:09 PM
I read somewhere that side feed is better. something to do with the shorted distance from the inlet to outlet which means you get less pressure loss or some such. too busy at work to go look it up, so someone else can do the honours.

If you are willing to go with custom fuel rails and stuff like that, you might as well do it right.
bigger injectors + bigger fuel rail should mean you can flow more without having to use silly fuel pressures yes? (with supporting fuel lines) I also read somewhere that while the walbro 500bhp pump can flow enough for 500bhp, it does not like to do it at high fuel pressures (high for fuel injection anyway)

ako
20-12-2005, 11:33 PM
The walbro pumps are happy to run high pressures - they are rated to run up to 5bar. We have many customers pushing 400hp at the wheels on the walbro in-tank pumps, once you get past that level of power, going to an external fuel pump setup will be one of the cheaper things you need to worry about anyway :)

Injectors - there's no better or worse option top or side feed wise. They both flow the fuel they're told to (and 99% of the time more than they are rated at), at the end of the day, if there is any difference at all, its so negligible it won't make any difference at all.

There is no harm in running high fuel pressure. Normal base levels are around 40-45psi, once you add boost into the equation you're looking at 60psi +. Bumping up fuel pressure to richen the mixture on the stock injectors is an option to a point, but like I've said elsewhere... If you're going to do things, do them properly.

A custom fuel rail is very, very easy to make up anyway, so its not a huge issue either.

bradc
21-12-2005, 09:57 AM
Is there that much of a point to change the fuel rail, apart from the side feed vs top feed? I will be intending to run a fuel pump and fuel pressure regulator, so will it really matter?

Ako, I'll have to pass on the injectors at this stage, but I'll definately keep in touch in the future. I've asked in another thread about going with single vs twin turbos, I'll be doing the injectors at the same time.

ako
21-12-2005, 10:28 PM
No, there's not much point switching to a new fuel rail, aside from going larger internally to flow more. Seriously, there's no advantage to having either kind of injector.

A walbro in-tank pump (we sell at $295, straight bolt in), and a fuel pressure reg (SARD @ $245.00 http://www.nzperformance.co.nz/store/index.php?cat_id=14&catname='Fuel%20Filters%20&%20Regulators%20'&PHPSESSID=ddb7869f47f63226ea7cda76cafe4ba0 ), in combination with the stock VR4 injectors, will flow enough for around 420hp safely. You'd use the regulator simply because the stock regulator wont be too happy with the increased flow of the new pump - sounds stupid, but its what happens in practise. You can also bump up the pressure a little for a bit more headroom if need be.

p.s - those prices are our retail, I'd try and hook you guys up a bit ;)

bradc
22-12-2005, 07:07 AM
how about 500hp? Would you recommend one of your bigger fuel pumps, bigger injectors, or what?

AllBeItMine
22-12-2005, 08:17 AM
I've got a shipment of injectors on the way at the moment. email me what you want at sales@nzperformance.co.nz, I'll see what I can do.

Looking at $200 per injector, I'll do a discount for you lot.


$200 x 6? :embarasse

You See
22-12-2005, 08:53 AM
ABIM: My thoughts exactly!
With a "club discount" that should be halved! (hint hint) /Devil5

AllBeItMine
22-12-2005, 09:35 AM
i dont know what the injectors are or even done any looking around to see what injectors would work. but i just didn't expect them to be in that ballpark!

bradc
22-12-2005, 10:48 AM
they are always above $200 each, I don't really know why, they seem to be a fairly small and simple device.

ako
22-12-2005, 10:34 PM
Trust me, thats a pretty cheap rate. We retail them at $220 each - I can more than likely sort something if people want to do some sort of group buy. Those are the genuine SARD fuel injectors, and we will replace any that don't quite work right.

A couple of injectors and stuff (http://www.nzperformance.co.nz/store/index.php?cat_id=30&catname='Fuel%20Injectors'&PHPSESSID=7f5103bb9c4c8cfa986dec2ab369123c)

Thats just a small part of the range, suffice to say whatever size you're after, its around and we can get it.

A general sort of rule to work with for injector sizing is 550cc per 100hp. Thats very approximate, but its a good rule to work with. Bumping up the fuel pressure with a better pump (to cope with the extra flow, and as a safety measure) and a fuel pressure reg (to bump the pressure up) can give you a bit more headroom, but if you're at that sort of power level there's no way I'd be chancing matters with those sort of stopgap measures.

Stock 6A13 injectors are 390cc - call it 390 X 6 / 550 = 4.25, in other words, around 420hp ish. Thats still a LOT of power, 400hp in one of these cars would be a genuine mid to low 12 second 1/4 mile, which trust me - is a LOT of fun in a street car, and enough to scare the sh*t out of most passengers when they get in what looks like a family wagon.

bradc
22-12-2005, 11:05 PM
Uc's car is making dead on 200kw at the wheels, it would be interesting to see what his injector duty cycle is set to. I had various people say the stock injectors would be good enough for about 390 x 6 / 5 which would be 470hp, maybe a little too high, especially because you don't want to run them above 85% duty cycle.

I remember a wheels magazine with an R34 GT-R N1 spec, it had 214kw atw and did the quarter in about 12.7 seconds, that was with a very aggressive launch though, something I wouldn't do. That car has a similar weight to ours as well.

ako
22-12-2005, 11:23 PM
Put it this way.

If you're getting up past 400hp, you would have already gone to a new ECU, new turbos, and all the other supporting modifications to cope with it (unless you just cheated and went for a wet nitrous kit), so spending another grand or so on injectors, reeeally isn't putting that much of a dent in things.

Id say up to 400hp you wouldn't be spending all that much (considering), but to get past it, double your budget.

SGHOM
23-12-2005, 12:08 AM
(unless you just cheated and went for a wet nitrous kit].


/grr /grr /pan :embarasse