5000 Miles update.

[BraindG]

As most of you are aware, in september last year i uprated my clutch from a standard to a Spec Clutch (http://www.specclutch.com/) Original Thread here (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11086)

Recently, I have been experiencing ALOT of rubbing, whining and whirling from the clutch, especially underload, and at low revs. I started noticing it when reversing out of my drive.

I organised to Visit Richards (thanks mate I really appreciate it, and sorry for the excess oil everywhere, school boy error!) Garage. Anyways, 5hrs 15minutes later wouter and me were inspecting the clutch and I was slightly shocked at what i saw..

hopefully you can tell from these photos..
Ill go through what i saw on each picture aswell.

[BraindG]

Picture 1:
Don't get me wrong, i expected some wear on the plate, however not as much as i found, not sure if you can see the paint, but the side with the red paint (left, Flywheel side) has significantly less pad left.

Picture 1b:
this is the Flywheel side, seems a bit over glossy to me, however ive taken a look at my old clutch, and is seemed the same.

Picture 2:
This picture concerns me the most, bearing in mind ive only done about 4900 miles with this kit. Take a look where the the red circle is , and you will also see a score :inquisiti - additionally, if you rub your finger over the glossed area and onto the original metal, there is definetly a bump, the glossed area has been "cut" out, not much mind you, perhaps 1/100 of a mil.

Picture 3:
another angle, you can deffo see reflection from the scoring.

Picture 4:
And another angle /yes

Picture 5:
This is pressure plate, im not so concerned about this, looks ok, nothing like whats happened Flywheel end.

[BraindG]

Descriptions of the Spec Clutches. (i have Stage 3) - I have provided some details from the clutches up and below mine.

Stage 2
Types of Driving: Street, Drag, Pulling, Autocross

For all mild to moderately modified naturally aspirated and power adder engines. (Also good for stock power levels and spririted driving when good daily drivability and extremely long life are the goal.) Stock-like daily drivability and EXCELLENT wear characteristics.

High clamp pressure plate, pure Kevlar friction material and high torque sprung hub and disc assembly, bearing and tool kit.

Stage 2+
Types of Driving: Street, Drag, Road Race, Rallye, Pulling, Autocross

For all modified engines making more torque than the stage 2 can support. Maintains stage 2 feel for good daily drivability and offers very good wear characteristics, but provides a higher torque capacity. High clamp pressure plate, composite multi-friction carbon-kevlar material, high torque sprung hub and disc assembly, bearing and tool kit.

Stage 3
Types of Driving: Street, Drag, Drift, Road Race, Rallye, Pulling, Autocross

For heavily modified street and race engines. Offers sufficient daily drivability with a comfortable pedal feel and quick engagement. Offers good wear characteristics under low and high stress usage.

High clamp pressure plate, 4 or 6 puck carbon semi-metallic friction with high torque sprung hub and disc assembly, bearing and tool kit. 6 puck is standard on most applications, but 4 puck can be specified when ordering.

Stage 3+
Types of Driving: Street, Drag, Drift, Road Race, Pulling

For heavily modified street and race engines making more torque than the st3 can support. Offers good daily drivability and better manageability than the stage 3, with even better wear characteristics.

High clamp pressure plate, full-faced carbon metallic friction, high torque sprung hub and disc assembly, bearing and tool kit.

Stage 4
Types of Driving: Drag, Drift, Road Race, Rallye, Pulling, Circle Track

For heavily modified engines or engines of any modification level being used in the above driving environments, where an instantaneous engagement and light weight are beneficial. Not street-friendly due to harsh engagement.

High clamp pressure plate, 3,4 or 6 puck carbon semi-metallic friction with high torque rigid hub and carrier assembly, bearing and tool kit.

[BraindG]

So, looks like i chose the wrong clutch for my needs.
I think the main issue with this has been the fact that I have to drive my car nose first into my garage, before you say it :) - i cant go arse end in, cos the garage is to small, I even had to cut a bit out of the garage door to fit the car in :rolleyes4 - when i reverse out, there is a fair gradient up and over a pavement. Then i have to slowly angle the car, to get it off the drive and onto the road. Why? lol, my car is to low to drive straight out, I catch the bumper on the driveway, so i need to comeoff at a 30 degree angle :embarasse - As you can imagine I am home atleast once a day, and must slowly manouver the car onto the road.

Now, if i lived in a normal house, with a flat driveway etc, this may not be an issue, however i don't. In heign-sight, i should have gone for the Stage 2+?

From now on im going to change driving habits in an attempt to preserve the clutch till later on in the year, need to save up for another.

If i think im going to be leaving house again that day, ill leave car out on road.
Traffic lights, ill wait till a certain point and chuck her in gear, instead of rolling forwards, etc, simple things like that :)

Whats you think?

[andy43]

Kind of reading bewteen the lines in the clutch 'descriptions' the stage 2 sounds 'hardwearing for normal use' ie slipping the clutch a bit for manouvering the car about - maybe the stage 3 'turbonutterclutch' and upwards are designed to be on or off, and not much in between - good or bad wear characteristics isn't mentioned on the stage 3.
Could be you've just glazed it over a bit with slipping it more than a racecar application, and some drag racing full bore starts might clear the surface a bit.
Or not /help :5shots:

[BraindG]

thats what im wondering, should i just do a few launches, clean it up abit, or is it already dead :thinking: Cos its deffo glazed over, but not sure if that is "repairable" by some erratic driving.

[amsoil]

I doubt if you have killed the clutch, I have not heard of these things glassing and slipping. There is usually a minimum thickness and if you are at that point or very near it may be worth your while to have new friction material riveted on; otherwise just bung it back. Make sure the driven plate slides easily on the gearbox splines, a bit of copper slip works here. (cause I don't understand any other reason for getting wear on one side only like that). Also make sure the release bearing is ok as they take one hell of a hammering with these clutches. Yes perhaps you have gone a little OTT going for a sprung paddle, could have been worse, you could have gone for the unsprung kind.

[richy rich]

Barry

i talked to Simon yesterday about your clutch

he thinks the clutch is still in good condition

he also said the shuddering you get when slipping the clutch
is down to being a paddle clutch

the theory behind this is that the flywheel and thrust plate try to close the gap
between the paddles of the clutch.
IE less paddles more shudder
more paddles/ full clutch less shudder.

rich

[BraindG]

So, how i get rid of the rubbing noise? - floor it everywhere? :happy:


Simon the guy i talked to?

[richy rich]

what rubbing noise...............


yes

[BraindG]

the whirling, rubbing noise when i reverse, move off at low revs.

[richy rich]

dont know not heard it

it sounded fine from out side.

[BraindG]

oh, thought you heard it when i reversed away from the garage, when you were shutting the door, hence the silly face.. or that normal? :p

i get the rubbing noise pretty much all the time when moving off, and reversing slowly.. flooring it its fine.. :inquisiti

[psbarham]

does it sound a bit like brakes tht have a slight coat of rust on them ? if so its the metallic compound of the pucks

[BraindG]

nah, im pretty sure its due to the glazing.. its like a whirling noise, like a vvvvhhhhhh noise... if you can replicate that with your lips..

[richy rich]

the face was because you stalled it/pan /pan /pan

[psbarham]

with out hearing it its difficult to say , but i would think its something to do with the puck material

[richy rich]

the f*ck material......................

[BraindG]

the face was because you stalled it/pan /pan /pan
No i didn't :inquisiti

[richy rich]

oh yes you did..........

[BraindG]

oh yes you did..........
oh, no... i didn't (sshhhh man :happy: )

[richy rich]

ok you didn't./help










































































oh yes he did lights went off and back on again/pan :book: :evilgrin:

[valmes]

http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=315630

Might be related to your problems with the SPEC stage 2 clutch.

[BraindG]

http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=315630

Might be related to your problems with the SPEC stage 2 clutch.
HHmmmm.. that fills me with confidence..

I called Spec the other day, and emailed them the pictures.. he said clean up the flywheel, by scrubbing it? -- anyone done this? - or know what he means? i can only imagine it means use something like sandpaper?

[amsoil]

At the risk of going out on a limb here (which has never really restrained me) and if I recall correctly, one Carroll Smith who was an automotive guru and writer of an excellent series of books on the subject stated:-
Brakes are only made by AP and Brembo.......period (I would add Tilton here)
Clutches are only made by AP and Sachs.......period
It unfortunately appears that you are not alone in buying an item that has not had the full development and testing of the big companies, without the full explanations that the big companies give and without their network of dealers for technical support. Having said that you are so much better off with what is often known as a 'rally' clutch than the guys with the boll*k brained idea on the threads link.
I'm afraid that when I ran one of these type of clutches on a road car it whined like a stuck pig, seemed to transmit noises all over the place and from a stand still as you slowly engaged rather than dumped it would make the rear axle and wheels twitch back and forward in a way I would never have believed until I watched a friend do it.
But the clutch worked and gave me a number of years of whinny and shaky yet trouble free service even with my abuse.
Guess you might just have to decide if it’s really what you want or not. :thinking: