Project GT

[Sports GT]

Project Sports GT


1995 Mitsubishi Galant Sports GT

6A12 + 2 TD025s + Skyline GTR intercooler + Evo 5-speed fabricated and lightened gear box + 4-puck ACT Racing Clutch and pressure plate + stock 8 PSI + lightweight Advan Rally and Trial Rims = ??

I heard stock times for his car is mid to low 14 seconds on the 1/4 mile so I don't know what to expect yet... the engine is still on the hoist, waiting for the mounts to be redone so it can be put in... I don't know what to expect, but I have my hopes low incase this disappoints me... what do you guys think?

[ako]

I would expect a mid 14 pass.

I'm assuming your was auto to begin with? In which case a mid 13 is the best you can hope for out of those turbos. If manual, I've sent two cars to mid 12's on them.

The reason I say it was auto to start with is the fact that you say you have a lancer evo "lightened and strengthened" gearbox - I'd love to know how or what has been done there. The stock VR4 box is identical to an evo 1 gearbox.

I raced mine when stock, 12psi - ran a 14.2, on 8psi, ran 14.8.

Fuelling was safe up to 18psi, on 16psi it ran a 12.6, had similar mods to yours, albiet on heavy 18"s.

The wheels you have would be the same weight as the factory rims, they're lightweight enkeis from factory.

[Sports GT]

well my engine has the blue tab TD025s rather than the black from the Auto... The blue are better right? rated at about 240 HP I think it was... but I would really like to know the difference in the blue and black tab turbo that makes the power difference... the stock injectors can handle 16 PSI? aren't they like, 275cc or something? The reason the gearbox was lightened was because it was fabricated from an auto VR4 gearbox and the Evo gearbox... the housing of both gearboxes were cut and the piece which the starter bolts onto (which is on the opposite side for the evo) was welded onto the Evo box and made to fit, but the starter couldn't reach.. since the Evo flywheel is smaller and had less teeth... so we cut the ring off the torque converter and welded that onto the flywheel... but since the inside of the bell housing on the Evo gearbox is thicker than that of the VR4... so then we shaved a lot off all around the inside of the gearbox for the flywheel to fit... it slides on beautifully now and the starter reaches... so the outside support of the gearbox remained untouched...

[ako]

Turbo differences - the "black" ones have a smaller exhaust housing than the blue ones.

My cars both ran GTO fuel pumps, which were a straight swap to the factory cradle. They ran 18psi happily with no (well, negligible) knock, once I had the good fuel pump and a decent intercooler on the car. I also heat wrapped all the pipework, and had a proper cold air setup done. The bigger pump combined with the stock regulator more than likely made it run slightly rich, and from results both me and mates here in NZ have had with these cars, the injectors seem to be quite underrated.

Clutch in both cars was a 2400lb pressure plate with a heavy duty organic disk - i would have gone angrier but budget at the time wouldn't let me. Still handled repeated 7000rpm + launches time and time again though without complaint.

Total power would have been in the region of 360hp - thats calculated from the 1/4 mile time and the cars weight on the day. Never dynoed it, just datalogged it.

My first VR4 ran 12.6 @ 107 - 109mph consistently, and the third one was running even quicker (had Tein adjustable suspension, got off the line better) but could never get a clean run in - I either missed gears, or had intercooler pipework blow off. Damn thing. Best it managed was 13.0 @ 110 - thats pump gas, no nitrous, on 18" wheels. Only weight loss was taking out the passengers seat on race day, and only having 1 pie at the track :P

I'll have another one once the MR2 sells, watch this space :pimp2:

[Sports GT]

Cool... now I'm looking forward to my completion even more... what octane is your gas?.. cuz that makes a big difference... where I'm from we only get 93-95 octane I think... or there about.... I'm not afraid of blowing any parts cuz I have a spare 6A12 block sitting there which only had bad turbos... so everything is replaceable... a GTO fuel pump is well within my reach, and wrapping the pipe should be no problem... thanks for the tips... if there's anything I should be aware of or anything I will encounter please let me know..

[ako]

Ah. I was on 98 octane, still pump gas but its a big step up from 93-95 in terms of what you can get away with.

Still, even on 15psi ish I would be expecting a high 12 second pass with the bigger cooler + fuel pump (and some good driving) - Have fun dude :evilgrin: With the stock cooler and 15psi, a mate of mine ran 13.2 in his sporthatch / sports GT thing.

edit - I'm assuming you have a 3" exhaust in that list of things done to the car. The stock exhaust chokes the car something feirce!

[Sports GT]

Yeah, 3" is included... I'm hoping the Skyline GTR intercooler doesn't result in too much of a pressure drop because of it's size.. a lot of people were like "Are you seriously planning on putting that on your car...?" when they saw it... but that's left to be seen.. I hope it isn't that bad and doesn't cause too much lag.

[ako]

Thats just people being ignorant.

My flatmate ran a 600X300X100 (bigger than the GTR cooler) on his TT, and the difference in response was so miniscule it was not really even noticable. These things are so ridiculously quick to come on boost to start with, you'll be fine :P

Pace wise, the car dropped a full .4 from its 1/4 mile time.

[gdelargy]

Hey, I just found this thread! And all I was doing was searching for "clutch".

Keep us up to date on your progress ~ my plans for my own Sports GT, after a year getting used to it on the road and getting a year's NCB on my insurance, will be to start track-prepping it, so I'll be very interested in how you get on.

Long live the 6A12TT!
:happy:


Regards,
G

[Sports GT]

Well the engine is in now still supported by the chain hoist... the front and left engine mounts are in, but we're having a few problems with the back mount and the mount on the right side since this is not the original gearbox, so we're in the process of making plates to sort of align the mounts with the brackets. We fit the intercooler on, it's perfect... we were shocked to see how nicely it sat there.. we just don't know if the bumper will fit over it.. hehe... planning on doing the wiring harness today if things go smoothly, then we can start it..

[Sports GT]

The car won't start.... it cranks, so it's not a mechanical problem, actually, we know the problem... it has to do with the wiring/plugs and something we're missing because the fuel pump won't start up and the injectors won't open either.... that's all... and the relay to the pump won't work...but we cannot figure out why.. we don't have the wiring diagram for the 6A12TT... we're trying to use the one from the FTO's 6A12 but notice some differences... can anyone help please... if they have a 6A12TT Manual.. or any additional info..

[Sports GT]

Bump... I really need help people, this is getting really frustrating

[terry337]

i can send some gearbox over to nz if u guys really need some.be it FWD or AWD...

[valmes]

Ako did you use anything to control fuel/timing?

[valmes]

Mark do you have any timeslips, records, videos of those mid 12s runs?
The reason I ask is simple... I was quoting your times on one of the Russian auto forums... and some people were "skeptical"... anywhere I can point them to?

Thanx.
Val

PS: Btw, sceptical or skeptical? ;) Did I spell it right?

[terry337]

we do low 11's here in msia.try any other after market standalone ecu...u might figure out something...

[valmes]

we do low 11's here in msia.try any other after market standalone ecu...u might figure out something...

We run low 10s here... try RB26 coupled with autronic and T61... but what does it have to do with Mark and his "almost stock" car times?

[terry337]

We run low 10s here... try RB26 coupled with autronic and T61... but what does it have to do with Mark and his "almost stock" car times?
not talking bout the rb's.im talking bout 6a12tt...just trying to say this machine has the potential for 11's
bout the ecu thingy im referring to the cant start section.
rb can do below 10...many of em here...even japanese came here to challge us and Thais.too bad they lost to the Thai's.

[valmes]

Ako?

[valmes]

not talking bout the rb's.im talking bout 6a12tt...just trying to say this machine has the potential for 11's
bout the ecu thingy im referring to the cant start section.
rb can do below 10...many of em here...even japanese came here to challge us and Thais.too bad they lost to the Thai's.

i've got your point... the problem is - some people are questioning 12.6 times on stock everything (ecu, turbos etc.).

terry where are you from btw?

[terry337]

i've got your point... the problem is - some people are questioning 12.6 times on stock everything (ecu, turbos etc.).

terry where are you from btw?
valmes..im from malaysia.
ah cool...12.6 stock is a very good time...here in msia not much ppl prefer the 6a12..most of them rather go for 4g63...ut i stick to it bcoz of the high rev sound..it rocks

[Sports GT]

Finally got my car up and running after many struggles but in driving it now to look for little glitches we're noticing that under regular driving it runs reaaalllly lean, almost to the point where the light on the A/F Ratio guage gets dim and goes off... but at WOT it runs all the way rich... is this supposed to happen?... because it's really almost to the extreme... either all the way lean at cruise, or all the way rich at WOT... help please... what is the A/F ratio gauge supposed to behave like?

[ako]

Sorry, I haven't been on here in a LONG while - been VR4-less for a bit.

Got one again now :P Another E84, this time going single turbo.

Timeslip - its in my wallet, albiet quite faded. I can get a photo for you if you want, pretty sure I have a fairly clear one on the PC at my folks house.

I have a video of it, which is the best you'll get I'm afraid. I have dozens of witnesses to the runs, in all I got 18 runs in on one day, 16 of which were sub 12.9 times, consistent 12.7's and one 12.6.

http://www.msport.co.nz/4images/albums/userpics/marky/RuapunaAKO.mpg

We don't have a timing board here unfortunately, and the video cuts short before the time is called on the PA. Just have to take my word for it - and that of the many witnesses. I'll point you to the relevant threads on my local mitsi forums --> http://www.msport.co.nz/viewtopic.php?t=300 (I'm on there as "Marky, in case its not blindingly obvious!)

Timing control etc - nope, just drove it hard, and crossed fingers. Datalogger showed average levels of knock, nothing to worry about at least.

[Sports GT]

welcome back Ako.. hope you're having fun with your 6A12... not many members use it so I'm glad to have one other person here running it... hope you can help wit my probs as I'm new to this, the lean running thing during crusing really worries me

[ako]

Ok, I'll explain it, and hopefully one of the mods can put my explanation into the FAQ cause it gets asked a lot!


If you understand air fuel ratios, you'll know that ideally, at full throttle in a turbo car you want around 11.5:1 to 12.0:1, on pump gas. At cruise, you will see values of approximately 15:1, sometimes even leaner when conditions permit.

Now, the 02 sensor that the vast majority of factory cars come with cannot see that range of values. They are effective from around 15.0:1 to around 14.5:1. The ECU only uses this signal to get a good ratio while at cruise, nothing more.

However, something most don't know is that in some makes of car (mitsis being one) the ECU also takes into account the values it finds from this at cruise, and to a degree transposes them into its' fuelling when at full throttle. So if your o2 sensor is poked, your car will run rich at cruise (the ecu goes safe), and slightly rich at full throttle as well.

The reason your 02 gauge is swinging all over the place, and seems to be off the chart, is because it literally is. Anything over around 13:1 and it will go to the "fully rich" end of the scale - trying to tune off this will result in a dead engine in a big hurry! The "Swinging" the LED does is because the ECU is constantly trying to get the perfect air:fuel ratio, and is ever so slightly adjusting the fuelling and ignition timing at all times.

Also worth noting, is that when you go a certain load / throttle position, the ECU goes into a "closed loop" mode, where it doesn't actually pay any attention to the o2 reading at all! It just goes off the maps programmed into it, and also watches out for any knock, and compensates as it needs to. You can see this on a narrowband 02 sensor, the LED will stop swinging around and will all of a sudden steady itself.

Hope that helped!

[Sports GT]

Well the more we run the car the faster it goes to rich but it still runs lean at cruisin but it has gotten better... I guess as we drive it more it will adjust... I just hope it doesn't get damaged before it sorts itself out