being non paying member sucks

[Munta]

how come we have to pay just to acess different areas of this site... i joined up to help me out in working on my leggy etc only to find all the important stuff is in the members only area... wot about us poor ass ppl that cant afford to join up properly isnt it a bit unfair??

[marmel31]

So do you think it's fair that everybody else should have to pay for this site to be hosted by an ISP whilst you get it for free???

Do you actually know how the internet works???

[mpau009]

wot about us poor ass ppl that cant afford to join up properly isnt it a bit unfair??

...no:bananadan

Short answer, stuff costs money, someone has to write it, and administer it, i get benefits, i pay $20:iloveyou:

Im sure there will be plenty of replies, so i'll leave it there.


BTW, im sure people will help you out as best they can if youv got a specific question?

+++you do get a keyring:2thumbsup

[bradc]

^^ what they said. the site does cost money to run, thats all there is to it.

[Gly]

its only $20, which is not unfair,

people expecting things for free and to be handed to them on a plate is...
so quit your bitching,

besides you'll save alot more than that...

by using the info in the members area rather than paying a garage to do stuff for you.


.

[ShadyNZer]

lmao i pay the garage anyways

[Springie]

I agree, $20 is buggar all. I was a free member for a while but wanted access to all forums and also support the club. You also get a sticker etc.

How do you afford to run your leggie if you can't spare $20? if money is tight maybe just save it up.

[ShadyNZer]

yeah my $20 was to support the club too, i knew i'd be on this bastard heaps so thought $20 was piss all...

plus havent got the tools, space or confidence to do most of the work posted in the articles myself...

[bradc]

I've got the space and tools, just no confidence at all in fixing anything. At least the members area tells you what you should expect others to do :)

[i3ooyah]

lmao i pay the garage anyways

cheque book racer :P

i was dissapointed when i joined, hence y i havnt renewed.

[WildCards]

Some discounts of regular servicing items (like oil) would probably help to strengthen the NZ membership. n the UK we have Amsoil, which immediately makes the fee worthwhile. Perhaps someone over there could arrange something with a supplier and post it up for others.

[bradc]

we do have discounted servicing at Auckland motors arranged thanks to KiwiTT, I just wish that someone could organise discount petrol for us! Can anyone steal a BP tanker truck full of 98?

[gdelargy]

I'm wondering the same as Springie ~ while I don't think there should be an obligation to sign up, how can you afford to run a dipsomaniacal beast like the VR-4 if you "can't afford to join"?
:huh:

I don't know how different it is in NZ, but over here I received a special 'can't-buy-'em-in-the-shops' VR-4 keyfob, a pair of very cool stickers, and when I purchased my posh synthetic oil from Opie Oils (http://www.opieoils.co.uk/), I received a discount by quoting the number on my membership card. Very useful for a car that demands a pamper every 4500 miles.

I think it's a good deal, and I pay UK£20 ~ that's NZ$57. Worth it alone for the "members wives" section in the video repositor...oops, that's supposed to be a secret, innit?
;)



Regards,
G

[Paul Beazer]

Munta,

This arguement crops up from time to time, but i would honestly say the $20 is worth it. Although i dont own a VR4, the site is invaluable with any problems i may experience. Im not rich and struggle to run my V6 at times, but i'd still keep up my membership!
At the end of the day you would expect to get free help from a garage, they'd be out of business in no time!
As others have said running a website doesnt come cheap and you do qualify for discounts for oil etc.
If you really resent paying $20 for a membership, think how much it could end costing you when your gearbox goes t!ts up through an incorrect oil flush!
Plus you get the best bunch of people on here, bar none!

Its a personal choice and no-ones forcing you to pay!!

Pay up and enjoy the site!

[valmes]

Anybody can enlighten me as to what a "key ring" (keyfob?) is? After one year of membership I still have no idea... and no key ring... :(

IMHO I like the idea of "supporting the VR-4 community"… but not restricting access for non-paying members...

Look at 3Si.org - they have "donate 10$" and "donate 20$" buttons, but no restrictions on accessing information... and there is LOTS OF VALUEBALE INFO!!! That way they GROW since people join up and CREATE CONTENT... People VALUE the community, hence, they are willing to SUPPORT IT WITH their own MONEY!

Of course becoming a member can still give you benefits in form of "ClubVR4 member" sign and discounts at places that accept VR-4 membership card... and mysterious "key ring"... and other things like pager, etc. … but “supporting site with dough because it is interesting” and getting “access to info for money” - are two different concepts…

… and the price for "OTHER" regions (well... there is no Russia... there is OTHER) is kind of high...

For NZ it is 20$ what is it in Euros? Like 10 Euros?
For Russia - 20 Euros + 20-22$ to transfer money... comes to around 45-47 USD… Sorry guys, seems kinda high to be able to post in the members section... :inquisiti

PS: Just to make myself clear - It is a great place, where I met great people... :2thumbsup and I hope (if I am not banned from the site after this message) we can still read, post and share info about our cars!

[Spirit]

Well it's as simple as this:

1: We have the Club and website
2: We charge a fee to join
3: That's the way it's gonna stay
4: Don't like it, then don't come back

If all in life was so easy :2thumbsup

[BraindG]

Do we have to go through this each time?



Anybody can enlighten me as to what a "key ring" (keyfob?) is? After one year of membership I still have no idea... and no key ring... :(


See attachment regarding key ring, Did you contact anyone directly regarding your missing membership pack? Other than this one small post (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/search.php?searchid=321203)?



IMHO I like the idea of "supporting the VR-4 community"… but not restricting access for non-paying members..


Restrictions on the members area, articles section is a good example here, the information is available out which the members area, providing you can be bothered looking for it. The members area provides nicely written articles, which members have spent their time written, these contain all the relevant information in one easy post. However, if you save 20 quid, you can go search the forums. We are not restricting access to information, its all out there, but in the members are its just in one location.



Look at 3Si.org - they have "donate 10$" and "donate 20$" buttons, but no restrictions on accessing information... and there is LOTS OF VALUEBALE INFO!!! That way they GROW since people join up and CREATE CONTENT... People VALUE the community, hence, they are willing to SUPPORT IT WITH their own MONEY!


Nice use of caps to emphasise your points. Also can I point out one small difference (small being operative word on our behalf)

3Si.org
Threads: 287,377, Posts: 3,178,698, Members: 17,773
Welcome to our newest member, ruizrivj

CVR4
Threads: 15,143, Posts: 142,873, Members: 3,000
Welcome to our newest member, stiff

With nearly 6 times more forum users, you are in a better position to Cover Costs through donations. However we are not them, and thus have not gone down that route.




Of course becoming a member can still give you benefits in form of "ClubVR4 member" sign and discounts at places that accept VR-4 membership card... and mysterious "key ring"... and other things like pager, etc. …


See attachment regarding key ring, again, did you contact anyone directly, or post directly for someone attention that you did not receive a membership pack? this could have possibly been actioned, without the need for it to be used in future references, such as the two mentioned above.



but “supporting site with dough because it is interesting” and getting “access to info for money” - are two different concepts…




… and the price for "OTHER" regions (well... there is no Russia... there is OTHER) is kind of high...

For NZ it is 20$ what is it in Euros? Like 10 Euros?
For Russia - 20 Euros + 20-22$ to transfer money... comes to around 45-47 USD… Sorry guys, seems kinda high to be able to post in the members section... :inquisiti


Interesting Points here Valmes, why has this never been mentioned before? - This is a valid point, which until reading this very posts here has never crossed my mind.



PS: Just to make myself clear - It is a great place, where I met great people... :2thumbsup and I hope (if I am not banned from the site after this message) we can still read, post and share info about our cars!

Thank you, sorry for ranting, but its becoming a bit tiresome, however everyone is allowed their point of view, but remember to raise the issue with committee before complaining about it (i.e. missing membership, costs for "Other")

[I-S]

Worth every penny. I had similar qualms with the membership fee. In my first year of membership, I saved enough money through it to pay for about 9 years more membership.

[valmes]

Do we have to go through this each time?

Did I try to go through this any time in the past? :inquisiti

Sorry, that I've raised my opinion on the subject... /Grrr


4: Don't like it, then don't come back

Understood, Sir! :annoyed:

[BraindG]

Did I try to go through this any time in the past? :inquisiti

Sorry, that I've raised my opinion on the subject... /Grrr


Not you, hence i didnt quote you....

its just when people referr to issues, that were never raised by them in the past.. i.e. your missing membership pack, should have been raised as a seperate thread, and/or a PM to me, or spirit or The Vee...

Also, the costs, why was this not raised in the past?

yet both subjects were used to shoot down our costings..

Thats what im annoyed about..

[valmes]

Restrictions on the members area, articles section is a good example here, the information is available out which the members area, providing you can be bothered looking for it. The members area provides nicely written articles, which members have spent their time written, these contain all the relevant information in one easy post. However, if you save 20 quid, you can go search the forums. We are not restricting access to information, its all out there, but in the members are its just in one location.

Do we really have to go into this? You are not restricting access to information? Huhh? I can't even read the link you've provided... My post is in there, right?

[Spirit]

You are not restricting access to information? Huhh? I can't even read the link you've provided... My post is in there, right?

How can you say we are restricting access ? This website is owned by Barry - it's up to him what he does with it. If it didn't exist then where would you get most of the juicy info posted on here......you would struggle !

If Barry wants to he could make this a subscription only website - no-one is forced to come here. It's not as though he (or anyone else) is making money out of this. CVR4 is a proper club, and we are not allowed to make a personal profit from its funds. Any profit made is re-invested in the club in other ways.

If people don't want to pay to become a full member then thats cool, but we have been around 3 years now and the club is bigger and better than ever - sh1t we must be doing something wrong !

[valmes]

sh1t we must be doing something wrong !

Didn't I just said that? j/k... you are obviously not getting my point...


where would you get most of the juicy info posted on here......you would struggle !

... Yeah... and I would struggle to post juicy info too... wouldn't I? :D

And that's exactly my point - getting all info out, might get you more paying members than keeping "juicy stuff" inside the members only area, but it's your club and it's up to you what you do with it. Good luck.

PS: I will just lurk around from time to time as a registered user... if you don't mind. I promise, I won't bother you anymore, with any opinions of mine...

BTW, I really think Barry did a great thing creating this place, but there are still things you can improve on... are we allowed to say what's on our mind after a year of membership? Does it come with the package? ;)

[WildCards]

Easy Valmes, I don't think anyone is trying to alienate you mate, you're more than welcome AFAIC to stay around. You do have a right to your own opinion of course, but this subject has been covered many times before, each time the same conclusion is reached, and either side of the fence agrees to disagree.

Personally, i didn't realise you had to pay so much, but Barry has already mentioned this, otherwise £20 is bugger all, It keeps nobheads off the site and worthy users on.

Also, relying on donations is risky business, what if enough donations aren't made one month? Who pays then?

[BraindG]

BTW, I really think Barry did a great thing creating this place, but there are still things you can improve on... are we allowed to say what's on our mind after a year of membership? Does it come with the package? ;)

You may say whats on your mind, however i feel there should be a correct way of doing so, Posting in the "Club VR4 Membership Info/Queries" forum is a start, that what its there for.

Im not trying to chase you, or anyone away, far from it. But, I'd rather not start reading a thread, about x, only for comments regarding Y to be brandished, saying they have issues and no-one cares, when in fact they have never been raised before, or correctly..

Its like going to a shop and joining in on an arguement that someone is having with another customer. Then stating the shop is rubbish because they never responded to a problem you had with the product you bought, and also, they didn't give you the correct discount for the product you purchased. When, on further investigation, the product was bought, a wimper was hear at the back of the shop one day regarding the problem with the product. And nothing was ever said about the discount to anyone working at the shop.

[mpau009]

Im sure there will be plenty of replies, so i'll leave it there.


Told you so... Munta what have you done:happy:

There is some real emotion out there, and fair enough, imagine the work and personal hours that goes/ has gone into building a site like this, iv got nothing but respect.

My argument, Once again, there are far worse ways to spend $20, and like Booyah says, if its not worth it for you, just don't rejoin. All i can say is under 6cents a day, have personally saved over $200 on servicing at Auckland Motors (going there again on Friday) all my questions are answered, usually with handy pics, that someone has taken their time to write up, i have had my moneys worth..

I think the forum is as worthwhile as you want it to be...

Now quick join up...

(ps i think a donations page couldn't hurt?)

[bradc]

As long as you don't leave Valmes, we all value your input and the creation of your twin TD04 monster. It is a little annoying that you have to pay so much, but as Barry said, we are just too small to give the whole club away for free.

[amsoil]

Don't know if it helps or whether I should keep quiet but cant people just transfer funds via pay pal; It would keep 'other ' costs down and if the club can't do it then send the funds to my account LOL I'll send the club a cheque or transfer the money, promise . L O L :inquisiti

So theres an offer Valmes if you want you can transfer whatever to me and I'll forward to the club therby cutting the costs you describe in half . Just remember to add 4% so you don't cost me money in saving you money!

[Kenneth]

I believe that there are generally 2 sorts of members (there IS a scale between these two poles though, so you dont neccesarily have to be exacly one or the other)

1) Chiefs: these people lead the way, do their own work, search out information, post articles, help other members, organise stuff etc. Chiefs do this out of a willingness to share their information and help others

2) Indians: take the stuff provided by the chiefs and use it gaining much from the work the chiefs do.


As I said, there is a scale between the 2, but hopefully you get the idea.

This site (and many others) is not such a great help to the chiefs as they are the ones poineering the information. But they do it out of good-will and because that is the way they are.
If you are one of these, then sure the membership fee might not be attractive to you.

On the other hand, if you are more an indian, then the membership fee will be more than make up for by the information and assistance that you recieve.

If you expect to recieve something, then you may be dissapointed.

Personally I come here more for the people. My membership has paid itsself back many times over... but not from the information, instead from the purchase of cheap 2nd hand parts from other NZ members.

[KiwiTT]

I am inclined to say an old credit card advert "Membership has it's benefits". My discounts on servicing has saved me the membership many times over each year.

[jervis]

England - 124
New Zealand - 45
Scotland - 12
Wales - 6
USA - 1
Belgium - 1
Estonia - 2
Cyprus - 1
Rep. Of Ireland - 2
Australia - 1
Northern Ireland - 1
Sweden - 1

Total FULL membership - 198

surely 198 entusiastic VR4 owners can't be wrong.. :2thumbsup

[The Vee]

Don't want to make this go on and on, but while I appreciate it's more difficult for overseas members, the "fee" is paid back a thousand times over for all the interest, friendship, events and info this club provides. To me it's more of a way to support a club and keep it going as inevitably there are costs to run such a thing. My real concern though, is Valmes' comment about his pack. I spend hours doing these things and take pride in the fact that nearly all get dispatched immediately after the details are recieved and the cards made. I can categorically assure you that packs were sent. I will enquire as to whether or not I can do a recorded/guaranteed delivery to you (Valmes) and if so, get it organised with a new pack at my own cost, if you so wish. Just to be clear, I'm talking about the pack, not the membership fee.

[Spirit]

Don't know if it helps or whether I should keep quiet but cant people just transfer funds via pay pal; It would keep 'other ' costs down and if the club can't do it then send the funds to my account LOL I'll send the club a cheque or transfer the money, promise . L O L :inquisiti


We already use paypal, but IIRC you can't in Russia /Grrr

[Louis]

Restrictions on the members area, articles section is a good example here, the information is available out which the members area, providing you can be bothered looking for it. The members area provides nicely written articles, which members have spent their time written, these contain all the relevant information in one easy post. However, if you save 20 quid, you can go search the forums. We are not restricting access to information, its all out there, but in the members are its just in one location.


QUOTE"We are not restricting access to information, its all out there, but in the members area its just in one location."

Hi, Could someone explain the above statement?, as far as I am aware if something is put in the "members area" it is then out of reach of non members, Am I wrong?.
If the info is not hidden but just easier to find then Munta does not have a problem as, if the info is accessable you just have to search

I have read all through this post, and agree with some bits and disagree with others, personally I disagree with a charge, but I do understand that things cost money and people take the time out of their own lives to organise the site.

I think people like Valmes contribute a lot of useful information to the site ( and pay for the privelidge to share their info with others), But, I suppose in return you learn from posts that other people have put up. But sometimes it is not always a good balance of giving and getting.

I don't see why it costs different amounts to join depending on which country you are in, surely it should be the same cost for all?

I think “Don't like it, then don't come back”, is definitely the wrong attitude.

It’s not about a keyring!, it’s about access to info and whether it should be paid for.

[KiwiTT]

Hi, Could someone explain the above statement?, as far as I am aware if something is put in the "members area" it is then out of reach of non members, Am I wrong?. Even if you search this site you can not access the member articles. However, if you want to search the internet and gather the information yourself, you can. However, you need to know what you are searching for. If you value your time, the ease of finding the information is facilitated by other members collating and preparing articles for placement in the members area.

[valmes]

You may say whats on your mind, however i feel there should be a correct way of doing so, Posting in the "Club VR4 Membership Info/Queries" forum is a start, that what its there for.

Im not trying to chase you, or anyone away, far from it. But, I'd rather not start reading a thread, about x, only for comments regarding Y to be brandished, saying they have issues and no-one cares, when in fact they have never been raised before, or correctly..

Its like going to a shop and joining in on an arguement that someone is having with another customer. Then stating the shop is rubbish because they never responded to a problem you had with the product you bought, and also, they didn't give you the correct discount for the product you purchased. When, on further investigation, the product was bought, a wimper was hear at the back of the shop one day regarding the problem with the product. And nothing was ever said about the discount to anyone working at the shop.

I just noticed it was a NZ chat section... my bad.

I didn't say "the shop was rubbish" - never. I did rise my opinion on "access to the info" part... and other services "the shop" was offering for a fee.

I did post on a couple of occasions of that "lost/forgotten" key ring – I didn’t complain since I really didn’t need it… just wanted to know what it is... sorry I can't access membership area to find where I've posted... neither do I want to go into it.

I just hope that after "I search the internet and gather the information myself" and post it on here, it won't be moved to the "members only area", right?
... or "don't come back" is the only option I've got now?

Limiting the "hard to find info" to two hundred people is in no way helping our platform (VR-4)! So again my point is – paying to support the community is ok. Paying to keep the info restricted to “members only” is not…

However current customers/members can vote with their money, so I will leave it there...

[The Vee]

[QUOTE=valmes]I

I did post on a couple of occasions of that "lost/forgotten" key ring – I didn’t complain since I really didn’t need it… just wanted to know what it is... sorry I can't access membership area to find where I've posted... neither do I want to go into it.

Yes I know you did and a replacement was sent. Lost yes, forgotten no. While this is not the bigger issue in your post, my offer still stands from the last post I made.

[detonate]

Hell I'm going to pay $20 just for the stickers :2thumbsup:

heh

But really, how can you *honestly* complain about a $20 membership? It's just mind boggelling /pan /pan

[Wodjno]

I agree that the Membership Fee for this Club is a "Piddle" in the Ocean !! ( Zilch, Squat, Diddly, Nada, Nuffin )
And i use the word "PIDDLE" for a very good reason.. :inquisiti
If this topic had been discussed on any other Forum their would have been much stronger language and abuse used than has been in this thread "SO FAR" :speechles
"PIDDLE is the strongest word that has so far been used in this thread.. :happy:
What i'm trying to say is that, maybe it's because of the way the Membership System works on CLUBVR4 that not just every TOM, DICK or HARRY frequents the site and rants and raves and hurls abuse like on most other sites.. :thinking:
At the end of the day IMHO i think it comes down to how much Membership actually costs.. :thinking:

For those who drink alchohol ! If you drank 1 less Pint, Glass of Wine or Short per week how much money would you save ? Would this pay for your Membership !

For those of you who smoke ! If you smoked 1 less cigarette a day, how much money would that save ? Would that pay for your membership..!

For those of you who eat chocolate ! If you ate 1 less bar of chocolate a week, how much would you save ? Would that pay for your membership !

Also do any of the above gain you a wealth of information and possibly save you 100 x that amount ?

This topic can be argued out over and over again. But at the end of the day you pays your money and you takes your choice. :speechles

Specifically aimed at Valmes, i sympathise with your problem of not being able to pay your membership as easy as everbody else and in such circumstances like this as it is not directly your fault then i think something should be sorted out through the club so you are not paying Over the Top..

WODJNO

[bradc]

detonate, so hurry up and pay :) If you give dickytim your $20 on sunday, he'll sort it all out for you.

[Nick Mann]

... or "don't come back" is the only option I've got now?

I certainly hope not. valmes - you may well be the exception to the rule. Your fee should be minimal yet it is the highest here, both observations being down to geographical location. We will talk about it at the next committee meeting. You are not someone we should be pushing away from the club, if we can avoid it. You always have your right to walk away, but I sincerely hope that you do not.

Back on topic, for NZ (and the UK!), there is no sensible argument that I can see to complain about the membership fee. Information is still shared and still obtainable - the members area brings it all together as we slowly write articles and learn about our cars.
I have never moved information about VR4's away from the public area into the members area, although I have sometimes copied it there to make it easier to find.

We are a small club. You are the owner of an expensive to run car. If you want something out of the club, then please help us to run it!

[Springie]

Some good points made by all in this thread. All i can say is life is not fair. As mentioned its only $20 or 20 pounds, i would have joined early but had trouble finding a way to get the money to the club as i don't have nor want a credit card. I joined to get access to premium information and of course stickers but most of all support the club.

Maybe there could be some type of system introduced where that years fee is reduced in accordance to how much information you contribute? that way people who add valuable information to the club get rewarded for their efforts and the people (indians lol) pay the full price.

Not sure how it would work but maybe something to look into?

[Spirit]

Not sure how it would work but maybe something to look into?

Not practical IMHO, but nice idea. You would get too many arguments. As you say, life is not fair.....another fine example is our road fund licence. Two identical cars pay the same fee for example but one does 5k miles p/a and the other 20k miles p/a - is that fair ?

[g6acb]

ooohh... don' t start bringing road fund licence into it...

2.0 16v galant road tax = £190

VR4 = £170

Put on best Peter Kay voice and says 'whats all that about'

[DUNLY]

Valmes

how u getting on? what if you got the iban number and details required to pay the $20 and done a money transfer, through your bank. i know it cost me (i think) £8 to transfer money to germany. maybe worth a look, and if has already been looked into, my bad.

[Spirit]

IIRC thats how Valmes paid last time

[detonate]

brad, did by paypal today :D

[Dream Weaver]

£20 is much less than a UK TV licence and this site is far more entertaining than UK TV, far more comedians for a start !

[BraindG]

£20 is much less than a UK TV licence and this site is far more entertaining than UK TV, far more comedians for a start !
Yeah, /looks at sghom

[richy rich]

all i will say on the subject paying my £20 has already saved me at least £600
(t/c seal)

and £20 pound what is that when you look at the amount of money we spend on these cars in a year.

[soapy1978]

£20 pound is nothing i spend that a day at work 20 fags two bottles of drink and a good fry up in the morning and a take away at night as i have to eat take aways al the f**king time as never at home long enough to cook

(f**king job)