Another marketing con job?

[jervis]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10379715

Not much detail on how the formula has changed to live up to these claims, seems like a token remarketing to make us feel better /pan

[Kenneth]

yeah, sounds like the just added some more detergent or some crap to the fuel.

95RON is still 95 RON though, and I am not putting that low a octane rating in my car, and thats final. (obviously if i had no choice, i would put some in the tank, but would put in as little as poss till i got something better)

[Robotnik123]

Found some info about it on the Shell website:

http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?siteId=nz-en&FC2=/nz-en/html/iwgen/zzz_lhn.html&FC3=/nz-en/tailored/shell_for_motorists/fuels/maingrade_pkg/maingrade_technical.html

[KiwiTT]

Why don't they release "Shell Optimax" which has an Octane Rating of 98 in the UK. Optimax (http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?siteId=uk-en&FC2=/uk-en/html/iwgen/shell_for_motorists/fuels/zzz_lhn.html&FC3=/uk-en/html/iwgen/shell_for_motorists/fuels/dir_fuels.html)

Email to Shell NZ from me.

"Why will you not release your Shell Optimax, which is rated at 98 Octane, in the UK.

Our high-performance cars from Japan, require up to 100 octane, which is available there. While our cars can run on a lower octane rating, it will cause the ECU to go into safe mode and reduce the power by up to 20%.

BP and Mobil, both have 98 Octane, which is used by my collegues. Your new fuel does nothing to address this. NOTE: Caltex also does not have a 98 fuel.

Your comments would be appreciated."

I await their response.

[Robotnik123]

Does the ECU really go into safe mode and reduce power when 95RON is used in a VR-4, vs 98? I've read this, but has anyone in the club tested this on a dyno? It seems to be that it wouldn't be that hard to do, so has anyone ever done it?


...While our cars can run on a lower octane rating, it will cause the ECU to go into safe mode and reduce the power by up to 20%.

...

[bradc]

I asked shell if they were going to start selling the 100 octane 5% ethanol mix they sell in aussie. They said they weren't looking at bringing that in at all, but they will probably start selling 98 octane sometime soon. No word on what date though.

I doubt the new fuel will be much better though, otherwise everyone else in the world would have already done it.

Robotnik, we haven't done a test at all unfortunately, hopefully we'll be able to do one eventually.

[KiwiTT]

Does the ECU really go into safe mode and reduce power when 95RON is used in a VR-4, vs 98? I've read this, but has anyone in the club tested this on a dyno? It seems to be that it wouldn't be that hard to do, so has anyone ever done it?Most likely in 91, but rarely in 95/96, and not likely at 98.

[mpau009]

Most likely in 91, but rarely in 95/96, and not likely at 98.

Yeah, i chop and change all the time these days, as well, as trying an octane booster for the Dyno, and i cant say i really notice too much of a difference from 95 to 98, maybe a little bit more low down, but i think that might be my brain wanting to justify the extra expense...

Id be worried if you had a few mods, and might risk running lean, but on my car it doesn't seem to care.

[KiwiTT]

Shell's Response

"Shell does have 98 Octane available in some states of Australia, the demand in Australia is such that NZ would not be able to keep up with demand heer in NZ, however Shell NZ is looking at bringing this fuel in to the country in the future, but we do not have an estimated date for that at the moment.

Kind regards
Shell NZ"

[KiwiTT]

Am I sticking it to them our what ?


Hi Shell NZ

NZ has a higher number Japanese imported cars than AUS, which would benefit by having a higher octane fuel. Some Gasoline-Direct-Injection cars would benefit a great deal with the higher octane, improving their performance and economy.

It would seem that the new fuel (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=1&ObjectID=10379715) you released is simply the same type as the Techron by Caltex and the others 91 and 95 blends by BP and Mobil, but with different markeing hype. I am fully aware that most 91 and 95 is produced by our refinery in Whangarei. I am assuming they add the special additives (used by all companies) in there and then send it around the country.

If you do make you own unique blend where do mix it ?

If BP NZ and Mobil NZ can do release 98, why not Shell NZ. I am sorry, but this seems to make NZ a second-class country by Shell, in comparison to other companies.

[bradc]

nice one Richard :) I doubt just how special their blend is as well.

One thing that I noticed was the suddenly overnight every shell has the new stickers up on their forecourts, I wonder how they suddenly managed to get that petrol to every single shell around the country? That leads me to beleive it has been there for quite sometime

[Xeroid]

Well, I used to service equipment out at the Wiri Bulk depot where, funnily enough, all the Petrol companies store their petrol......all in the same tank group. They even have a single building with all their offices in, all nicely lined up downa corridor with a little sign on each for which company you were dealing with.

So it all comes out of one tank so I don't know how they 'differentiate' between the brands ...all bovine excrement in my opinion.

Only one not there is Gull whose 95 is supposedly equivalent to 97RON and priced at 95 rate .... I don't have any proof of that but seems to run ok in the leggie.

[KiwiTT]

No response yet !

[Kenneth]

Only one not there is Gull whose 95 is supposedly equivalent to 97RON and priced at 95 rate .... I don't have any proof of that but seems to run ok in the leggie.

Well, you cant use it in Kart racing because of something to do with specific gravity or something like that (specific density maybe??) which is seen as outside the performance restrictions!

Thats enough proof for me, so I have no problems using Gull

[KiwiTT]

Their response


I will pass your information on to the Retail team.

As for having our own unique blend this is possible as we inject an additive at the gantries located around the country when our tankers fuel up for deliveries. Our petrol is not the same as Caltex Techron as i am not sure exactly what techron is but our Research and Development team have developed our own cleaning additive for Shell fuel independent from any other oil companies and our fuel also as the added benefit of being able to reduce friction in the engine thus helping our customers achieve fuel economy.My response back


So it simply added when the tanker fills up. Where's the Quality Control done ?

As to your additives;

BP says "BP Ultimate can provide enhanced combustion, releasing energy more efficiently and improving the performance of the engine."

Caltex says "In short, Techron® cleans vital engine parts so that your car can perform at its best."

Mobil says Synergy provides "Quicker response, smoother running = Improved "drivability"

Shell says "added benefit of being able to reduce friction in the engine thus helping our customers achieve fuel economy."

Really ? They all claim to improve performance ! Who are we to believe ?

Do you actually have NZ test reports available to NZ consumers that compare all the 4 main fuel suppliers, to prove the points made. If not, what you say and the other companies are saying is simply marketing speak and not "proof" that theirs is better.

Better still these tests should be carried out by an independent tester like a Crown Research Institute and supervised possibly the AA.

I look forward to your own test reports in the mean time.

[mpau009]

:iloveyou: :2thumbsup 'Sick em boy...

It makes you wonder why the media don't bother saying anything. That said tho, i probably will try it out to see if theres any weight (normally get shell anyway..)

[bradc]

nice one Richard

[jaimz]

Yeah, go Richard! You seem to be making excellent in roads...
Just a thought - maybe you could approach Consumer magazine and see if they're interested... I would've thought it's just the sort of thing they'd love to sink their teeth into...
Unless they're owned by Shell..! :inquisiti

[KiwiTT]

Shell NZ's response
Thanks for your email and interest in our improved Fuel Economy Formula which is now available in New Zealand.

We understand your concern regarding the specific degree of fuel economy benefit as a result of using the improved Shell fuels. However we hope you can appreciate that based on different driving styles, weather conditions, vehicle age and condition that it is impossible and misleading to make a single claim that we could guarantee all motorists would achieve.

Our fleet tests were conducted across a range of vehicle makes and models. The controlled fleet test allowed us to determine fuel economy based on identical vehicles driving under identical conditions, hence we have been able to prove our formula delivers improved fuel economy. The results of this test have been published by the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) and endorsed by the British Standards Institute.

We encourage you to try our improved formula against the competition and see what benefit you are able to achieve.

Kind regards,
Shell NZ

[Kenneth]

Tell them you are happy to have their fuel tested in VR-4s, so long as they provide a discounted rate to participating testers. ;)

[Xeroid]

" We encourage you to try ..." yeah right...
Any free samples ...Noooo!!!!!
Any Proof ....Noooo!!!!
Any more marketing bovine excrement ....Yesssssss!!!! Heeaappss !!!

[BraindG]

Bit of a let down, that response, but atleast they replied.

I must say using optimax does increase my fuel economy by some margin.. around town driving ill get about 220 miles on 40 litres, with the likes of 95 RON ill get about 160-170 ish.

But i doubt there will be much difference between the 98 RON fuels on the market.

[KiwiTT]

My Response to them.
Hmmm. Tested in Britain. So did you send the fuel to Britain to be tested, which was refined here by our NZ refinery.Then their response.
The extensive fleet test (which used matched pairs of the same vehicles operating under the exact same conditions), that was conducted in Europe and on which the SAE paper was based, used European petrol with the Shell Fuel Economy Formula.
The results of the test clearly demonstrated a benefit for fuel containing Shell's Fuel Economy Formula.

However to verify that the Fuel Economy Formula was effective in New Zealand petrol a large amount of New Zealand petrol (ex the New Zealand Refining Company) was sent over to Britain. While we could not replicate the full fleet test some engine testing was conducted on the New Zealand fuel which showed we can read across the Fuel Economy Formula claims to the New Zealand fuel.So I decided to close the matter with this response.
Thank you for your detailed response. I believe I am now confident that your testing procedures are very thorough. I will inform my collegues accordingly.

I look forward to your subsequent release of your higher octane fuel (e.g. UK's OPTIMAX), which will significantly benefit my car. UK Collegues of mine have noticed an up to 20% fuel economy difference between 98 (Optimax) and 95, which our high-performance cars are designed to run on. This octane boost combined with your new fuel mixture will greatly benefit our cars.

Your committment to answering my queries has given me a higher level of assurance about your company.

You may now consider the matter closed.Now we just await the release of 98 in the sometime in the future.

[Trow]

Tell them you are happy to have their fuel tested in VR-4s, so long as they provide a discounted rate to participating testers. ;)

you know mate, you could pass for being Scottish if you keep this up :scholar:

[KiwiTT]

Petrol probe
Reporter: Greg Boyed
A simple question; a big claim; and a lot of kilometres.
Those were the basic ingredients for a trial to check if a claim by one of "the big four" oil companies that it could stretch the value of its fuel was accurate.


Shell's much trumpeted 'fuel economy formula' got Auckland woman Kim Buchanan wondering if the claim was legitimate. She wrote to Fair Go suggesting it take a car, fill it with twenty dollars of the Shell fuel and twenty dollars of any other petrol and see which went the furthest. The AA were happy to get involved in the trial.

They provided the car - a 1.7 litre Honda Civic - and two separate fuel tanks to ensure the trial was as fair as possible. The tanks were changed after each trial run.


We decided to use Mobil fuel for the comparison and so we didn't get mucked up by price variations we put about twenty dollars, or exactly twelve litres, in the car and set off first with the Mobil.

The planned course started at Meremere drag-way in northern Waikato, went out onto Auckland's motorway looped around and came back to finish at the drag-way. The idea being that when the car eventually stopped it'd do so in a safe controlled area rather than on the open road.
At 174.3km the little Honda finally burned the last of its Mobil fuel. The benchmark had been set. Shell's petrol would have to take the car more than 174.3km for the company's claim to be proven.


The petrol tank was changed, the Shell poured in, and the second run began.


The Honda finally ran out of Shell at 181.5 km - 7.2 kilometres further than the first run using Mobil. The AA says that the saving works out to around 0.23 litres per 100km.


Or to put it more broadly, and using our trial as the benchmark, you'd have to cover four hundred km to save one litre of fuel. Shell says that represents a four percent saving, and says its claim is entirely justified. Shell says New Zealanders drive on average around fourteen thousand ks a year. And with current petrol prices, that's an annual saving of around $70.LINK (http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/410965/762777)

A geniune 4% saving !!!

I still won't use it. It must be 98+

[bradc]

Not really worth driving out of your way to get it then.

It would be more interesting if they did a complete test of every fuel on the market, as well as a dyno run

[Rossco Type-S]

I still won't use it. It must be 98+

same nothing less than 98 goes near my car, I doubt you would save anything running that stuff in a car like ours, it would probably just do damage in the long run.

[Muppsy]

Bollocks to that. They aren't worrying about car enthusiests with this stuff.

Why would they care if it's more ecconomical? Our saving comes out of their pocket long-term.

98 for me. Now all I need is a car....:embarasse

[Xeroid]

Was going to quote the FairGo test meself but looks like I was waaayyyy too late. If you have a VR4 you wouldn't be seen dead driving like a nana as he did .... :sick:

Now I'm sure I know where I can get some avgas just up the road from here ....

/Camera