I think my Super VR4 is finally forked in the transmission area

[OSiRiS]

Hey all. Hope everything is fine and well :)

I'm finally legal to drive, as of last Monday I finished my licence disqualification of 10 months. Yup, 10 months lol. Anyway, finally got the car back on the road again and fully enjoying it. Until.

Was on the motorway doing a steady 100kph in 5th. Decided to give it full throttle and it dropped to 3rd and pulled like a mofo as usual. Very very fun. I've got a standard exhaust and it seems "raspier" than usual. But the noise was coming from the front of the car. Didn't make sense. So I did it again. LOL. And it made the same noise.

Didn't think much of it, but it was in the back of my mind. Anyway, carried on 100kph till I got to the city motorway off-ramp, cycled down through gears and noticed the raspy noise back again when I got into 3rd. Then down to 2nd. And through 1st.

It's more of a scraping, grinding noise which ONLY happens in 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Once I get into 4th and 5th it's normal again. Noise is proportional to revs. Doesn't make a sound in N, P or R. It is a tiptronic box with an aftermarket PWR branded ATF cooler.

Any ideas?

Going to jack the car up and do a fluid change in about 10 minutes once I put my clothes on and find the keys to my Merc C220. Damnit, I hate driving that Merc :(

[Gly]

dont do helli's in you car, **** wouldnt break as often.

[Kenneth]

dont do helli's in you car, **** wouldnt break as often.
/haz

[bradc]

Yeah Carstens got it :)

Do a proper ATF change and see what happens, but I think your box might be on the way out.

[OSiRiS]

ATF flushed, changed and still ****ed.

It happens in R too. Obviously I didn't notice that last night.

[OSiRiS]

No signs of any problems at all before it actually happened. No massive clunk or explosion, just randomly happened initially when going into 3rd gear on the motorway when accelerating from 100kph to 120kph.

[bradc]

My suggestion would be to take it to a mitsi dealership before it gets any worse, if you catch it in the early stages you might not need a new box

[OSiRiS]

Anyone else encounter the same problem?

[mpau009]

Anyone else encounter the same problem?
:thinking: Depends what you mean by grinding.. My STR had what i can only describe as a low metallic whine in any gear until about 4.5Krevs. Even though it didn't actually break, it was toast all the seals were burnt and degraded, and the edges of the transfer case gears were chipped, so the metal chewed everything to bits. :5shots:
The main symptom when driving was it would often hesitate when you put power down, and then thump into gear when you lifted off.

But my optimistic side hopes it might be something a bit less, like maybe something loose, or a diff thats playing up? Might be an idea to see if theres any faults registered on the ECU as well. The only other thing i could think of would be an exhaust problem, but i guess youd spot that easily enough, apparently the flexy joiner part up the front is prone to leaking and changed the quality of my exhaust note a whole lot.

[OSiRiS]

:thinking: Depends what you mean by grinding.. My STR had what i can only describe as a low metallic whine in any gear until about 4.5Krevs. Even though it didn't actually break, it was toast all the seals were burnt and degraded, and the edges of the transfer case gears were chipped, so the metal chewed everything to bits. :5shots:
The main symptom when driving was it would often hesitate when you put power down, and then thump into gear when you lifted off.

But my optimistic side hopes it might be something a bit less, like maybe something loose, or a diff thats playing up? Might be an idea to see if theres any faults registered on the ECU as well. The only other thing i could think of would be an exhaust problem, but i guess youd spot that easily enough, apparently the flexy joiner part up the front is prone to leaking and changed the quality of my exhaust note a whole lot.

It's definately not the exhaust. It's mechanical.

So how much to get your problem solved?

[Gly]

a rebuild will be about 1k + depending,

[mpau009]

So how much to get your problem solved?

You really really dont want to know. If i had known it was going to be as trashed as it was i would have sold the car. Apparently it costs more to rebuild a STR 4-speed tip, than most others because it is specific to that model car, so combine that with $1600 for a transfer case, 2 months of sitting on a hoist, new oil cooler, seals, planetary gears, the works and paying full price for labour, the grand total was $5000:baby:

In hindsight i really should have binned the whole lot, sold it to some poor bugger, or at least driven it till it broke.. but once it was out of the car i kinda had to fix it, and i was planning to keep it, so i didn't want a bodge job either, but yeah it sucked real hard..

I think as was said, your best bet would be starting at mitsi, it was them who realised there was something screwy with mine, and they should be able to give you an idea of what is wrong.

Also theres quite a difference in changing the transmission oil versus flushing it, so if the stuff you took out was black or a dark red that might be an option, but again mitsi will be able to tell you.

Do you have mechanical insurance?

[OSiRiS]

I've changed the ATF, using the various articles here on CVR4. Now it is ruby red but still has the same symptoms as before the change.

Mechanical insurance. Hmmm. I bought the car approx 1 year ago from a car yard named Car City in Papatoetoe. Mechanical insurance included. However, the car isn't very standard anymore... So I'm not even counting on it.

How much is a manual conversion? Anyone done one before?

[Gly]

Just had a quote today to get Ashley converted using Mary-Kate's 5 speed in Whangarei. $1400-$1800. They havn't done a Legnum before but said they've done plenty of conversions.


and thats supplying all the bits from his spare car

[OSiRiS]

and thats supplying all the bits from his spare car

Oh ok does he have everything?

[Gly]

and thats supplying all the bits from his spare car

you get some trans fluid in your eyes?
or the tears clouding your vision from your soon to be empty wallet :bigcry:

[mpau009]

I've changed the ATF, using the various articles here on CVR4. Now it is ruby red but still has the same symptoms as before the change.

Mechanical insurance. Hmmm. I bought the car approx 1 year ago from a car yard named Car City in Papatoetoe. Mechanical insurance included. However, the car isn't very standard anymore... So I'm not even counting on it.

How much is a manual conversion? Anyone done one before?

I haven't mentioned it on here before, but about 2 weeks ago my AYC pump packed up for good, i thought it was gonna be the same problem for me, but when i bought it it had an HKS filter and a muffler, luckily the dealer who filled out my insurance, ticked the modified vehicle box, and on mitsi's advice they paid up for a replacement (second hand) pump, pressure switch and all the labour about $1k. So its worth checking the policy just in case.

As for the conversion, id bet a small fortune that theres gonna be a huge amount of bits that need to go across, just in terms of pedals, linkages all the bracketry and **** that would have to go along with it. But in the interest of making an awesome article for the CVR4 people to read i think you should give it a go:sombrero: I'm sure people would be willing to help out, and then you could have the only 5 speed (or 6) SuperVR4 in NZ if not anywhere..?:thinking:

[bradc]

Nice one mpau, I bet you're happy about not leaving AYC puddles everywhere as well.

I'm sure there would be a few manual supervr4's out there, but it would be very rare indeed.

[OSiRiS]

Hmmm.


posibly a bad bearing.
if the noise goes up and up as you go through the gears it will be the output shaft, if it goes up through one gear then down and up again through the next gear then it will be the input shaft.

If it was a manual gearbox, I'd definatly say the front bearing (engine side), quite posible the auto is a similar layout. but it might not be.

[OSiRiS]

Rang


Gearbox Factory

Auto transmission, Manual Gearbox repairer, 4x4, New & Used parts, bearings & overhall kits, Torque convertors, AA, Castrol oils

Address: 68 D Greenmount Dve East Tamaki Auckland
Phone number: 0-9-274 8340

And they said it'd be a bearing about to collapse and said for me not to drive it at all until I get the problem solved. Obviously ok to drive it to the shop though lol which is 2 minutes around the corner from mine.

He said he has had a few tiptronic Legnum VR4's come in with the same problems and he explained why it only happened in 1st, 2nd, 3rd and R, something along to lines of planetary gear, 4th is 1:1 and 5th is final drive. Can someone go into detail explaining this?

Of course all of this went over my head as I was too worried about the price which would be something like $2,000+

I then rang my mechanical insurance company (I wanted to gather information first before giving these people a call) and they confirmed that they were one of their authorized workshops. Going to drop the car in tomorrow and hopefully everything goes well.

Just some details on the car incase anyone is interested:
3 year mechanical insurance
Excess $300
Purchased, 94,000km, 27/05/2005
Serviced, 98,435km, 16/06/2005
Serviced, 108,903km, 21/11/2005
Serviced, 120,131km, 25/03/2006
Cambelt, waterpump, tensioners, seals, powersteering pump etc. 122,368km, 05/2006
Broken gearbox, 123,360km, 04/06/2006

Mechanical insurance requires the car to be serviced by an authorized MTA workshop every 10,000km. I've serviced the car every 5,000km interval in between the recorded services aswell just for piece of mind.

And the part I like the most is-
Claim limits:
Vehicles up to 10 years or 125,000km, $3000.00 inc GST
Vehicles up to 16 years or 225,000km, $1500.00 inc GST

Seems like the gearbox chose the right time to pork itself. Hopefully the warrenty claim goes through well. I'd be pissed off if it didn't, considering the low kms from purchase and that I've got every service receipt etc.

[bradc]

When you said 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gears I was wondering if it had something to do with that as well.

If you go to howstuffworks.com they have a section about auto transmissions. in 4th gear the whole transmission is locked and the power just goes straight through. In 5th the reduction is 0.71:1 and it goes through a different set of gears to the first 3 ratios.

[OSiRiS]

Ohhh must see.

... angry face lol

[You See]

As mentioned by everyone else, sounds like your gearbox is fudge like a mofo! ...maybe it's time to drive sensibly and less like a 16 yr old who has just got laid for the first time! :P

[OSiRiS]

lol I honestly drove it normally this time!

We'll see what they say about warrenty.

[You See]

lol I honestly drove it normally this time!


Was on the motorway doing a steady 100kph in 5th. Decided to give it full throttle and it dropped to 3rd

I rest my case! /pan

[OSiRiS]

Don't tell me you've never done that before...

[You See]

Nope...never! ...Haven't had the need to..5th usually sorts the lil' boys out! :P

[OSiRiS]

I'm happy that it porked when it did. Just before the $2,500 claim limit and luckily I wasn't anywhere of an inconvenience. We were scheduled to goto Mount Maunganui this Saturday 10th June, approx 300kms away.

[bradc]

If you're in drive and floor it at 100kmh it does that normally anyway. What I normally do is change into 4th, without opening the throttle any more than before. Once the box is in 4th gear fully, I'll open the throttle over the course of 2 seconds. Much smoother than just flooring it.

[OSiRiS]

:scholar:

[Kenneth]

pppfffttt... I NEVER floor it!
Never thrash the car eithier.

And I never lie!

*cough*

[OSiRiS]

lol might aswell buy a Sport V6 if you aren't going to use all the power

[You See]

And you might as well get a RWD if you're gonna do helli's...you don't deserve a SVR4, and on that note...gimme your seats, wheels and sounds :P

[OSiRiS]

LOL meh :P

Get the Lancer RS out of the impound yard in 2 weeks. So I can start driving that hard and put my car back into the garage again :P

[bradc]

Now why is the lancer in the impound yard?

[OSiRiS]

Now why is the lancer in the impound yard?

They got the wrong guy, honest. lol.

[OSiRiS]

Ok the news is that the Gearbox Factory have pulled the box out and on Friday an independent assesor has come to have a look at it and the car.

The assesor has reported back to Motorplus, (the mechanical insurers) and Motorplus is denying liability. One thing they state they are denying liability for is because the car has a big bore exhaust.

The fact is that the car came standard with a Ralliart Sports Exhaust being a Super VR4 and I'm sure many of you VR4 nutters can confirm this via CAPS and basic VR4 knowledge.

I have explained this to Motorplus but they think that I'm talking a load of bollocks, and if it was true then they would have been aware. I argued more (as you do) and they went on talking about "disclosure" and if the car yard didn't disclose the information to Motorplus, Motorplus would not be held liable. They also state that if they had known that the car had a big bore exhaust, whether factory fitted or not, they would not have insured it in the first place from the car yard.

So my conclusion to date is that:
I have been sold a car AND paid extra for a 3 year mechanical insurance through Car City in Papatoetoe, only to find out that the car SHOULD NOT have been insured according to Motorplus due to the factory modifications.
The independent assesor does not know that he was assesing a Super VR4 as opposed to a normal VR4.
That despite the number of Super VR4s sold by Car City Papatoetoe, mechanical insurance should NOT be offered on any Super VR4 as having a Ralliart Sports Exhaust fitted from standard is defined as a big bore exhaust therefore voiding warrenty in the first place.

I can understand Motorplus not paying out for the claim, due to their big bore exhaust policy. However I will be looking into Car City Papatoetoe as they should NOT have sold me mechanical insurance through Motorplus at the time of purchasing the vehicle.

What do you think?

[KiwiTT]

I would say a Manufacturer's Optional Modification is something that should be covered.

[OSiRiS]

Oh and also Gearbox Factory have quoted me $2,500 ex GST to:

Purchase a second hand box and fit
Rebuild the torque converter and fit
Fit an aftermarket ATF cooler (it already has one, but they need to put a replacement on it anyway, claiming that the cooler might have metal shards in it)
Fluid

Included is a 3 month warrenty on the gearbox. Which I'm not too sure I trust very much, considering the position I have been put in with all this warrenty and insurance business.

However $3,500+ ex GST will get me all of the above but instead a rebuild on the existing box, which they can also put a conditional warrenty on.

I will be pursuing the costs of purchasing the 36 month mechanical insurance as the car according to Motorplus was deemed a too high risk to insure in the first place from the dealership.

[OSiRiS]

I would say a Manufacturer's Optional Modification is something that should be covered.

Motorplus claim that it is NOT. However the dealership that sold the car to me and gave me the option of purchasing 36 month mechanical insurance claimed that they have sold a few other Super VR4s on the same mechanical insurance.

[VR4 MAD]

However the dealership that sold the car to me and gave me the option of purchasing 36 month mechanical insurance claimed that they have sold a few other Super VR4s on the same mechanical insurance.

Yea, they may have sold them with the insurance but it sounds like you are, unfortunately, the first to claim and should those other poor sods have a mechanical problem and try to claim, the insurer will trot out the same old sob story to them as well...........bastards. /Grrr :soapbox: /grr :furious3:

God I hate insurance companies, they're just well dressed thieves............./Grrr:rifle: /wall

sorry end of rant (for now)/pan /pan

:givemebee

[Kenneth]

tell them you will see them in court...

The story I heard was that for under $3000 it isn't worth an insurance company going to court... just not worth their time (and lawyer costs) even if they win.

Of course, if it IS factory then you probably have a good chance of winning in court too... or getting the money back that you paid for the insurance.

[bradc]

your exhaust is definately factory, so it is worth pursueing IMHO, it might even be worth calling a few mitsi dealers to get them to confirm that super's normally have that ralliart exhaust as stock.

[You See]

Maybe next time you'll think twice about doing hellis /pan

[OSiRiS]

Maybe next time you'll think twice about doing hellis /pan

:zzz:

[patdog]

The gearbox on my vr4 gave out a while back, it cost me a bloody fortune :'(
Fortunately the mechanic fixed everything else that could have gone wrong...
Things like; worn engine mounts, faulty water pump, worn pipes and worn susp bushes...etc.
Costed me a fortune but at least I have my wheels...

[Muppsy]

Osiris, don't bend over for these asses. They always do this and will find any way they can to avoid paying out. They get bonuses for saving the company money in this way.

I used to have a pretty hot V8 XD Falcon that I insured with State for a bloody fortune. When I insured it, I made the salesman come outside with me and look at it. The thing was about 2 inches off the ground.

Anyhoo, about a year later it got broken into, got a Monstertach, CD's clothes, amp stolen. About 2500 grand worth all up. Made the claim and they instantly wouldn't cough up because it was lowered. I was at odds to work out how lowering a car made it easier to break into, but the point is I told them.

Long story short, I gave them the name of the saleswoman, and sent them a copy of my policy where it said "MODIFIED SUSPENSION" on it with a short letter telling them that they have 10 days to reconsider my claim or I will refer the case to the Insurance and Savings Ombudsman.

Done that twice in my life with these shady bastards, and they've paid up both times.

My advice is to get proof that the exhaust was a factory option. A catalogue, a letter from Mitsi (don't tell them why you're asking).

You'll find that in the wording of the law that "factory option" and "modification" are very different otherwise guys who go out and buy brand new Monaros/Ferarris/Falcons are screwed for any cover when they opt for bigger wheels/exhaust/supercharger.

Get the proof, and send them a letter *asking* them to reconsider before you refer it to the ISO. Be nice, but firm. They know that they are assholes, but just like cops, telling them does nothing for your cause.

The ISO details are as follows and they are free for all consumers, but try to go through the insurance co first and use court threats as a very last resort after the ISO.

Office of the ISO
PO Box 10-845
Wellington
NEW ZEALAND

Fax: +64 (04) 499 7614
Telephone: +64 (04) 499 7612
Freephone: 0800 888 202
http://www.iombudsman.org.nz/

[Gly]

well, im with the insurance co's side....

for completely different reasons,

someone who addmits and is proud of doing hellis in his car.
and then complains that stuff breaks, and then he might have to pay for it?

even if they decided that you car was covered, im sure they wouldnt approve of how you have been treating the car.

so....tough, you broke it... you pay for it.



.

[bradc]

I guess that comes down to whether Osiris abuses the car enough to have killed the transmission, remember he only has 130kw, so it was probably quite difficult to blow the transmission :)

[You See]

/haz

[OSiRiS]

well, im with the insurance co's side....

for completely different reasons,

someone who addmits and is proud of doing hellis in his car.
and then complains that stuff breaks, and then he might have to pay for it?

even if they decided that you car was covered, im sure they wouldnt approve of how you have been treating the car.

so....tough, you broke it... you pay for it.



.

Are you ok? Have I done something wrong to you? Where are all these personal attacks coming from?

I was fully supportive of you when you crashed your car into a tree, and you got insurance to payout.

Don't get me wrong, being 19 and owning a VR4 I knew that it would eat my money and it's not like I'm running out of it. I've got no problems at all paying for the repairs and can do so easily. It's just the small facts which come into place such as the car not being up to Motorplus's standards for being mechanically insured at the point of sale by the car yard.

Why all the attacks Gly?

[bradc]

I must say that I do tend to agree with you overall Osiris, the insurance company shouldn't deny you coverage for the reasons they are, and we all know the auto boxes are very fragile.

At the same time, you might want to remove those video's from the site :)

[OSiRiS]

I must say that I do tend to agree with you overall Osiris, the insurance company shouldn't deny you coverage for the reasons they are, and we all know the auto boxes are very fragile.

At the same time, you might want to remove those video's from the site :)

lol I spoke a certain someone at the Gearbox Factory and he seems to be on my side. There are currently 4 Legnums in his workshop, and on a good month he'll see 8 at a time.

All denied mechanical insurance too. What a coincidence.

[bradc]

They really are **** aren't they? I really want to change mine to an evo8 6 speed :)

[jaimz]

Hey..! From where I'm sitting, the manual gearboxes ain't looking too hot either!!/Grrr
Sorry to hear about your problems though Osiris... no damn good.

[Bal]

what is it with our gearboxes. 3 months on im still waiting for parts on my car and it's gotten to the point where im seriously considering buying another vr4 .... 6 months ownership of which 2 months actually spent driving the thing.

[Kieran]

I really must get that busted gearbox from Mo's off to the transmission rebuilders.... Just a case of finding the time!/pan

[Bal]

we should look into getting someone dedicated to supply for the club ... iv had so much heatache ringing around for boxes and parts. i actually had one guy point blank refuse the minute i said legnum.

[OSiRiS]

We have a ready supply here in New Zealand.

Only took 7 days from my car being off the road to back on the road again :)

[mpau009]

We have a ready supply here in New Zealand.

Only took 7 days from my car being off the road to back on the road again :)

Thats good news:2thumbsup Is it running better than ever now?

[Rossco Type-S]

When I imported my old VR4 it had the ralliart exhaust. When VTNZ complied the car they ticked the exhaust off as factory.

Insurance companies are scum of the earth.

A few weeks back my flat mate was driving through an intersection when a bus ran a red light and cleaned him out. There were several independent witnesses (including a doctor) who verified that the bus ran a red light, yet three days later he receives a letter form the bus companies insurance company saying that my flat mate caused the accident.

[bradc]

yeah buses are terrible, almost as bad as cyclists! We should ban them all from the roads :)

Interesting to hear that they said the ralliart exhaust was factory even though your old one wasn't a super vr-4, maybe they were intelligent enough to know who ralliart is :D

[Rossco Type-S]

Interesting to hear that they said the ralliart exhaust was factory even though your old one wasn't a super vr-4, maybe they were intelligent enough to know who ralliart is :D

The guy doing the compliance seemed to know quite a bit about VR4s, he knew it was a factory option. I am not sure they would know what a super VR4 is down here...can't say I have seen one in these parts.

[OSiRiS]

Thats good news:2thumbsup Is it running better than ever now?

Haven't really pushed it. Don't want to.

Turbos probably haven't seen 5psi since the box broke.

[Bal]

lol i'll send you the part list on monday :)

[Dream Weaver]

Bal - I found a couple of 5 speed manual Legnums in Japan for not much money if you an't be @rsed with Tiptronic any more.