Front-end vibration

[bernmc]

My VR4 has a front end vibration that I just can't track down :(. Feels the same as when you have a wheel that's not been balanced, but I've had the balancing checked several times. Doesn't go away if I swap front wheels for backs.

Comes on at about 80, and doesn't go away at higher speeds.

Thought it might be related to my dodgy ball joints, but no change since replacing them. Can't feel any play on either side with the car on jacks.

Wheels balanced, 4 wheel alignment done. Brembo brake discs were skimmed on the car when I got them, so I assume they're running true.

Any ideas on what else it could be?

[richy rich]

may be a wheel bearing on its way out


and 80 plus :stop: DON'T YOU KNOW THAT IS AGAINST THE LAW SUNNY

[Roadrunner]

Any ideas on what else it could be?
Could be the steering rod ends (opposite end of the track rod from the track rod ends). Known to be a weak point on these cars too.

[Spirit]

Might sound daft but have you had the balancing checked at the same place each time ? I have had balancing done at one place and still had wheel wobble, gone elsewhere and they have cured it.

Doubt this is the case but just another idea.

[Wodjno]

Have you hit any pot holes or curbed the wheels lately.. An out of shape wheel will shake the car to pieces at higher speeds..:skull:

Or even an out of shape tyre ?? These will not be picked up on a wheel balancer.. Only by a trained eye looking along the wheel while turning it around :happy:

[bernmc]

Not damaged wheels - I've checked, and vibration is the same when I swap front to back.

Balancing checked at two differnt places, so hopefully it's about right :(

So left with steering/track rod ends or wheel bearing. Any way to check/eliminate?

There's no play at all if I try to wobble the wheels when the car's jacked up. No noise from the bearings...

[psbarham]

what dampers are you using? one of the fronts may be going awol

[bernmc]

what dampers are you using? one of the fronts may be going awol

Bilsteins. Car feels absolutely solid on the road and around corners - just judders when it hits 80mph.

[stuey]

I've got the same except mine goes when I past get 90 ish (neutrons per kilo, of course). New wheels, tyres all balanced, though, track/steering rod or bearing. but no usual bearing hum though..

[Wodjno]

Not damaged wheels - I've checked, and vibration is the same when I swap front to back.

Balancing checked at two differnt places, so hopefully it's about right :(

So left with steering/track rod ends or wheel bearing. Any way to check/eliminate?

There's no play at all if I try to wobble the wheels when the car's jacked up. No noise from the bearings...

I had the same problem on an Astra about 5 years ago.. !!

Went to Kwik Fit, who balanced all 4 wheels.. Went out on the road, 2 mins and i was back at Kwik Fit. They took all 4 wheels off and rebalanced them and put fronts to rear. Out on the road again, but the same thing.. :shocked: They then said there balancer may be Ducked and phoned the other Kwik Fit on the otherside of town. Off i went to be greeted by somemore Kwik Fit dudes who set about slaggin off the dudes at the other Kwik Fit saying they were Ducking useless. They took 4 wheels off and re balanced them.. Said there you go sir, shouldn't have a problem now ! Out on the road again, 2 mins later i was back again. They swapped fronts to backs, but still the same.. :stars:
Said they couldn't help me no more.. Over 3 hrs that had taken.. :o

2 units away was a New Rac setup... Popped in to see if they could fit me in ?? Told them what had happened... 10 mins later they had the car up on the the 4 post lift.. 30seconds later they had found the problem. !!!!!

1 out of shape tyre :lipsrseal Told me the wheel balancer will balance it out, but at high speeds because of the way the tyre reacts at higher speeds the out of shapeness will react 100 times worse....

Anyways... I'm not saying this is your problem !! What i am saying is get it looked at before you go down any other avenue, as it don't cost nothing to lift the car up and spin the wheel round... :thumbsup:

[batherst]

hey guys im having a similar problem. it seems every time i accelerate hard the whole car vibrates or shakes. Any ideas?

[konman]

man we're lining up with this problem, ive got it too. i just went into simms mitsi in newmarket (nz) where they replaced a tie rod end, cured the problem for about 30 minutes, then the next morning it was back. so i emailed them with some helpful suggestions of what the problem could be from this most helpful website but they said they will need to keep the car overnight and take it for a drive cold to see what the deal is. my problem is basically vibration from front end at about 80 and upwards but only when the cars cold. all warmed up and shes a smooth little dream, confuses the buggery out of me. oh and just quiety eagle f1's are absolutly no good in a snow covered car park at whakapapa, almost had to call for the lifties to help me get out after i sunk the front end into some very soft snow ontop of ice. man what a dick i felt, got it out eventually and parked on some asphalt. anyway im now also in line for vibration help... oh err.

[batherst]

thats where im getting my car serviced. you'll have to let us know once they have seen it and gve their verdict

[Rally205]

Some driveline vibration is quite common in 4wd vehicles. Both my VR4's do it at about 80 and then it goes at about 90.

For some idea of causes try this article:

http://www.babcox.com/editorial/us/us50126.htm

[The Vee]

Very good article, Marcus. Driveline probs as it says are very common. As mentioned engine mountings are often overlooked and our cars have very soft stabiliser mounts (the ones at the front and rear of the engine bay) These can amplify any judder or imbalance (even in engine settings), often felt when accelerating at lower - mid range revs. Have actually filled the slots in my front mounting (which are supposed to be there) with cut sections of radiator hose to reduce clutch judder - before I changed the clutch! -. It does firm up the rocking action but has the trade off of giving perhaps a slightly harsher feel to the engine.

[The Vee]

Just a couple more things. Take the wheels have been balanced off the car. They may be perfect, but if there is any imbalance in the driveline it won't get rid of it. Then balancing on the car maybe neccassary, although this may not be available on the 4WD system.
One other very basic check is the way the wheels are fitted - this has happened to me. When the wheel is placed on the hub, all too often the first nut is tightened up (often with an air gun - nooooo) then the rest follow. Despite the hub ring, this does nothing to centralise the wheel. When tightening the nuts, just nip them up in turn, opposites as much as poss even with 5 stud. This helps to centralise the wheel then tighten. Obviously check them again when the weight of the car is back on them, preferably with a torque wrench at the right setting. Aftermarket wheels are more prone to this, and if spacers are fitted, these can also exaggerate the problem.

[batherst]

Thats what i find, at lower revs accelerating hard it will often shudder. But i do have after market 17" mags which could be upsetting the whole lot along with the things in that article.

[stuey]

The 4wd driveline shudder makes sense ast the car seems to rumble a bit more than I ever expexted. I have new engine and gearbox mounts two months ago, but s/h aftermarket 18" rims but new tyres, maybe another very meticulous (on car if poss) re-balance then see. only other thoughts were trackrod, bushes etc.. but all fine..:undecided

[Beastlee]

Sorry to drag this one out of the depths but my vibrations are now getting ridiculous. From 75-85 the vibrations make it feel like the car is going to fall apart, above that and it's bad but bareable. I can't feel it directly through the wheel but the whole car shakes enough that it has an indirect effect. Nothing on acceleration or braking it's simply there or not, below 75 it's a lovely cruise but unfortunately 80mph is worst and that's the average speed for the autobahns. It did it on the old tyres and now on the new ones, actually the winter tyres seem to make it worse but perhaps it's just the cold. Can't find any visible issues with the CV joints and it has new engine mounts, although I have poly ones due to go in.

[Nutter_John]

Lee have you tried to measure the deflection of the disk and hub with a dail gauge , also have you check the torque of the center bolts that hold your disks to the bells

[Fully]

I would be looking at the drive shaft and mountings also.

[Beastlee]

John, have just obtained a dial gauge but don't yet have stand, have double and triple checked the torque setting on the moutnings and they are spot on. I don't seem to get any braking vibration and yesterday was the first time it dawned on me that I could feel it through the seat rather than the wheel, which made me wonder about the rear rather than the front. I've seen a post on here where a couple of people had issues due to the rear discs being at fault.

Shane, do you mean the propshaft?

[The Vee]

The rears can indeed give problems like this. Check all the bushes and joints at the rear end of the car. Another thing to check is that the brake pads are free to move and not seized. This includes the caliper slides or pistons (not knowing what type you have on the rear) If any of these are stuck then a slightly off disc can give the care shake at certain speeds.

[Beastlee]

Andy, have looked at Camskill and a complete rear set of discs and pads is only £55. Depending on some other work on the car I may well just replace them to be sure. They were all done, stock parts, just before I bought the car a little over 3 years ago and have done less than 20k miles since but the rears are the only constant so far. Will check for play in the bushes, not enough to fail an MOT but possibly still present.

[Fully]

Shane, do you mean the propshaft?

Yes I do. (The shaft that goes to your diff).

Check your tyres also, look for being out of shape or bulges.

[Beastlee]

Shane, will look at the prop whilst I'm checking it over this week, have wondered if I need to do the centre bearing/support. Tyres were recently changed from summer tyres to brand new (quality) winter ones and rebalanced, vibrations were present before and after.

[Fully]

Well that eliminates the tyres/wheels.

If there is nothing that sticks out, get a dial gauge onto it. Check the run out of the shaft in the centre of the mounts.
Clean the area first =)

[Beastlee]

Hehe, I must sort a stand for the dial guage. Thanks bud.

[Zig_uk]

Did anyone ever get to the bottom of this, mine has started to Vibrate at around 70 upwards gets pretty violent the faster you go, about a month ago it did it but then went as quick as it came, now its back. haven't kerbed her, or hit any pot holes seems to be quite common.
Thanks
Zig