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colVR4
21-09-2006, 12:14 PM
I thought I would start this thread as I seemed to be hijacking other threads with all my questions.

I am aware that there will be a full briefing on the day before we embark on the track, but I think that it would still be a good idea for those drivers who have tracked their car before to offer their advice.

There are issues that I would like clearing up and I thank those of you that have been patient and have tried to answer my questions.

For example, do we need track day insurance? /Hmmm I found this on another motoring site:

"In theory your road insurance should cover you on a track day (provided that there is no racing or timing going on). your insurance company may have different ideas, though."

So, I am going to call my insurance and make sure that I am covered. I assume that is why the paperwork for Donnington states that 'no racing is to take place'. :lost:

If the track virgins out there have any more questions I suggest you stick them on this thread so that we can sort them out without hijacking threads elsewhere. Cheers.

Physician
21-09-2006, 12:20 PM
I bet your road insurance doesn't cover you! :uhoh:

Spirit
21-09-2006, 12:22 PM
I would be very surprised if your insurance company will cover you for track days, but may of course be able to sell you additional cover - probably around the £100+ mark (per day).

You don't NEED to have track insurance to do a track day, but of course you take the risk on your own head.

I work on the following figures as a basis for trackday costs:

Trackday: £120 (average)
Petrol: £90 (for a day at Combe)
Front Pads: £35 (cost approx £105 - expect 3 trackdays from them)
Front Discs: £100 (same principal as pads)
Tyres: £90 (same principle as pads/discs)

Total: £435 - without any other wear and tear or damage - or overnight accomodation/beer/food etc

So, you can see it's not a cheap hobby......and if you add another £100+ for insurance you can understand why many don't bother and risk it.

colVR4
21-09-2006, 12:23 PM
Which is a bit strange if you think about it. Cars going round a wide track, all in the same direction, no junctions or little old ladies driving at 20mph on the middle lane (no including you in that statement MPBvr4) so in theory it should be safer....m'lud!!

HJM
21-09-2006, 12:31 PM
Just be prepared - there are plenty of guides on the internet which explain do's and dont's.

The info in the JF2 pack gives you some of these.

Also remember not to go crazy 1st time out and ENJOY IT !!!

If you still need advice - come and have a chat with me or one of the regular trackers, ideally early friday night !

I'm sure Steve 'Wildcards' can endorse this service - if not pass on some of his new experience (but don't wear white golfing gloves - hey Steve /Nuuu)

H

Spirit
21-09-2006, 12:33 PM
Except you have failed to add in these essential ingredients, Col:

1: People driving a lot faster than normal and not really knowing how to cope with it
2: The other potential idiots on the track
3: Adrenaline
4: Male ego - thinking they are better than they really are !
5: The split second reactions needed to avoid an incident
6: Dealing with brake fade etc


........to name but a few !

HJM
21-09-2006, 12:36 PM
7. Spirit behind you !!!!!!!!

Spirit
21-09-2006, 12:37 PM
7. Spirit behind you !!!!!!!!

8: Crass cuttings on the track from HJM :p

HJM
21-09-2006, 12:43 PM
8: Crass cuttings on the track from HJM :p


How did I know that was coming :iloveyou:

I will cut the grass so that the new people can see the way and how not to do it /GJ

H

Spirit
21-09-2006, 12:45 PM
Over a week to go and the banter has started already - don't you just love it /lol

HJM
21-09-2006, 12:47 PM
Over a week to go and the banter has started already - don't you just love it /lol

Love what - Ooh Aah Missus !

Spirit
21-09-2006, 12:51 PM
Some other "best practice" points for you Col:

1: Check all your fluids in advance
2: Check and tighten wheel nuts if required
3: Change tyre pressures to suit conditions - differing opinions on this point - /discuss
4: Remember to make full use of the "cooling down" lap and don't use the brakes on it - then when you come to a halt in the paddock DO NOT apply your handbrake - the heat transfer can screw up your discs
5: Take it easy on your first session - learn the circuit, the lines, the braking points etc......let people faster than you go past safely
6: You will be bricking it before you go out.....this is normal.....once you're out there the nerves go and the adrenaline kicks in.......enjoy it.......it's cost you enough !

MPBVr4
21-09-2006, 12:57 PM
The most difficult thing I found as a "virgin" at JF1 was judging your speed
entering corners. When squirting down A and B roads you judge your speed
by the hedgerows etc You just don't get that perception of speed on an open
race track.

One question I have - what tyre pressure do you recommend? I know
"physician" runs at about 3 bar on track what about the rest of you "experts"?

Spirit
21-09-2006, 01:09 PM
Some good advice here:

Before setting-off you need to ensure that your wheels are balanced, otherwise the vibrations you suffer will numb the feedback through the steering wheel and impair your inch-perfect driving. You do not want to start a track day on brand new tyres, as the large tread depth will cause the tyres to overheat. This in turn will eliminate traction and progressive grip. Conversely you need to ensure that there is enough tread left to get you home after a day of serious abuse.

If you have access to a second set of wheels then use them as you can keep a worn set of tyres on the spares and change the wheels over at the circuit and not have to worry about having bald tyres for the journey home. Another reason for using spare wheels on a track day is to protect your favourite (and possibly expensive) wheels from damage and corrosion caused by brake dust. The brakes take a hammering and will coat your wheels with extremely hot brake dust, which can eat into alloy wheel lacquer and lead to corrosion. The excessive heat generated by the brakes can also permanently discolour the wheel alloy. Before attending a track day you should carry out a visual inspection of the tyres to ensure they are in good condition. Check for cracking of the tread and tears in the tyre sidewall. The last thing you want is a blow-out at 80mph. If you are feeling really hardcore, you could take a set of slicks with you, but be warned; some track day organisers do not allow them and they will also put some serious stresses on your car. You will also find that the cornering forces you are able to generate with slicks will require you to fit a baffled sump in order to prevent oil surge.

Note that the more complex the tread pattern and the smaller the islands of rubber between the tread the more likely you are to rip chunks of tread off the tyre with hard driving.

Before going out onto the track ensure that you check the torque of all the wheel bolts and continue to do so throughout the day. When at the track, your main concern is to fine tune the tyre pressures. As you abuse the tyres on the track they will get hot and the pressures will rise so you will want to knock them down a bit to compensate (assuming they were set correctly in the first place). The best procedure for this is to do one track session and get the tyres nice and warm, then look carefully at the scuffing on the tread of the tyres. If the scuffing does not extend up to the edge of the tread then you need to lower the pressure by a couple of psi and if the scuffing extends onto the sidewalls then the tyres are too soft and require some more air. You need to consider things like the overall weight and weight distribution of the car (the more weight the more air is required) as well as the dynamics of the track.

The more air you have in the tyre the stiffer you make the sidewall and so the more responsive the car is. This needs to be balanced with maintaining a flat tyre foot print. Low profile tyres have small (and thus stronger) sidewalls and so require less air than higher profile tyres as they will roll off the rim less. A point to note is that it is important to have the correct suspension geometry set up. If the geometry is out then you will have wasted any money you have spent on chassis mods, and you are more than likely to overheat the tyres.

At the end of the day remember to reset the tyre pressures once the tyres have cooled down and carry out a quick check to make sure you have enough tread to get home and that the tyres are not beginning to fall apart. It sounds silly but we have seen sets of budget tyres literally fall apart well before the treads has worn down. Do not forget to take a tyre pump or compressor with you. It is all very well letting air out of your tyres to account for hot air expansion but you still need some way of being able to replace the air at the end of the day.

WildCards
21-09-2006, 01:17 PM
If you still need advice - come and have a chat with me or one of the regular trackers, ideally early friday night !

I'm sure Steve 'Wildcards' can endorse this service - if not pass on some of his new experience (but don't wear white golfing gloves - hey Steve /Nuuu)

H

Indeed, Heath's advice to me at Coomb earlier in the year was invaluable at calming my nerves and informing as to what to do.

My advice though would be to take it easy, you've nothing to prove, drive like you would normally, look for others braking points and be as smooth as possible. If people want to pass you, they will, don't worry about it. Once your in the flow everything will click into place and you'll really start enjoying it.

Remember, many members have more power and/or bigger brakes and are more experienced. All of which are quite apparant on track and you'll never keep up. Find your own level, your own speed and gradually push a little harder within your own boundaries.

White golfing gloves :rolleyes3

HJM
21-09-2006, 01:31 PM
I will cut the grass so that the new people can see the way and how not to do it /GJ

Just remember that some of the 'grass' is sharp at Donny, so lets stick to the black stuff - for once /lol


J :)

colVR4
21-09-2006, 02:20 PM
All great advice, thanks guys.

I am probably going to be taking it steady for all three sessions. I have a set of worn tyres that I am going to use on a couple of Enkei's that I have procured for the fronts so that I don't rip up my new tyres.
The worn tyres have still got legal tread (just) so it makes sense to use them up. I can then switch back to the new tyres for the trip home.

Roadrunner
21-09-2006, 02:32 PM
what tyre pressure do you recommend?
If the track is dry, I put 40psi all round when the tyres are cold. If the track's wet, I run my standard road pressures of 34psi front / 32psi rear.

SGHOM
21-09-2006, 05:17 PM
Lets simplify it Col, /yes all the people who have lost their track virginity.... wehther a coombe..donny.. etc, have been the first ones to book track time again !! It really is that easy & addictive ! /Hyper /Hyper

Physician
21-09-2006, 05:25 PM
Lets simplify it Col, /yes all the people who have lost their track virginity.... wehther a coombe..donny.. etc, have been the first ones to book track time again !! It really is that easy & addictive ! /Hyper /Hyper


Virginity full stop.

As soon as you lose it, you want more and more and more ........../Wave

Wodjno
21-09-2006, 07:35 PM
Except you have failed to add in these essential ingredients, Col:

1: People driving a lot faster than normal and not really knowing how to cope with it
2: The other potential idiots on the track
3: Adrenaline
4: Male ego - thinking they are better than they really are !
5: The split second reactions needed to avoid an incident
6: Dealing with brake fade etc


........to name but a few !

Also the lack normal everyday objects around you to allow you to access the speed that you are driving at and the speed of the corner ahead and distance needed to brake for the corner ahead from the speed that you don't realise you are doing as there are no everyday objects around you to judge it against :huh:

Wodjno
21-09-2006, 07:37 PM
The most difficult thing I found as a "virgin" at JF1 was judging your speed
entering corners. When squirting down A and B roads you judge your speed
by the hedgerows etc You just don't get that perception of speed on an open
race track.

One question I have - what tyre pressure do you recommend? I know
"physician" runs at about 3 bar on track what about the rest of you "experts"?

Ooops ! Sorry /duh

Didn't read full post before posting above :kiss:


DITTO :kiss:

Wodjno
21-09-2006, 07:40 PM
If the track is dry, I put 40psi all round when the tyres are cold. If the track's wet, I run my standard road pressures of 34psi front / 32psi rear.

Same as that :happy: But if the Temp is a bit cooler i run 38 / 36psi :2thumbsup

Kieran
21-09-2006, 07:52 PM
As an inexperienced track day person, the only advice I can offer is not to let yourself get suckered into 'racing' another member. I always found that taking it real steady on the 1st lap allows the more experienced members to clear off, leaving you to set your own pace in your own space.

Wodjno
21-09-2006, 08:12 PM
As an inexperienced track day person, the only advice I can offer is not to let yourself get suckered into 'racing' another member. I always found that taking it real steady on the 1st lap allows the more experienced members to clear off, leaving you to set your own pace in your own space.

Good advice K ! Infact all round /yes

1 more thing.. Just because you see 1 VR4 enter a corner at a said speed and come out the otherside without cutting the grass :thinking: Don't think that your VR4 can automatically do the same.. :anxious:

I don't think there are 2 VR4's that will be set up the same or be fitted with the same Suspension, Tyres, Tyre Pressures, Brakes, Ride Height or Power... :rolleyes4

Your VR4 may well get through that said corner at the same speed but it might not get through the next 1.. :thumbsdow

Take it at your own pace and enjoy :thumbsup: As i'm sure you will /Steeringw

HJM
22-09-2006, 12:53 PM
Virginity full stop.

As soon as you lose it, you want more and more and more ........../Wave

I'm not sure I agree I can take it or leave it /Hissy

H

barnard
22-09-2006, 01:31 PM
Lets simplify it Col, /yes all the people who have lost their track virginity.... wehther a coombe..donny.. etc, have been the first ones to book track time again !! It really is that easy & addictive ! /Hyper /Hyper
Could not agree more, Derek. Cannot wait to get the "hoseless wonder" back on a track, then see what i can break next time.

colVR4
27-09-2006, 09:30 PM
Been playing Toca 2, Supercopa around Donnington Short....bit of practice of the circuit. Lets hope I don't drive my car like that!! Only hit the walls and gravel a couple of ten times....

bernmc
29-09-2006, 08:13 AM
Track day insurance is generally the following:

Premium of 1% of the value insured - so £100 for £10000 insurance. You don't have to insure the whole value of the car - insurance will just stop paying once you reach the insured value.

Excess of 10% of the insured value - so for that same £10000, you 'd have to pay the first £1000 of any claim.

You're basically insuring against a write-off IMHO. For VR4's which are worth squat, I don't think it's worth it. I'd be nervous about tracking the Z without insurance though - like the public road, you can be as careful as you like, but you can't control everyone else.

Throbbe
15-12-2006, 11:43 AM
Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but seemed sensible to bump some existing good advice rather than start a thread ...

My Highway policy (through HIC) specifically includes trackday insurance (not racing), so I doubt standard policies would.

Any recommendations of tracks for first timers? I'm thinking more about how well organised they are, briefings, etc rather than the technical difficulty of the track.

Also, any that offer in car tuition? I've always felt that £100 spent on driver improvement will be better value than £100 of performance mods, but have never put it into practice.

Any that run novice only sessions would be good too (although probably safer in a mixed group, as at least SOME of them know what they're doing!).

colVR4
15-12-2006, 11:53 AM
Having only been to Donny, I can't really offer a comparison to other tracks but I would still recommend it. It has examples of most things you would come across on any circuit with s-bends, uphill and downhill sections, long sweeping curves and tight bends.

I would suggest a bit of in-car tuition and then follow someone with a bit of know-how and you will be well away. Then it is a case of watching the bank balance for the dent that all those track days will make :D

Physician
15-12-2006, 08:23 PM
Hi Throbbe,

Donington Park and Castle Combe come to mind as being safest as they both have plenty of grass run-off areas.

Most trackdays offer in car tuition, normally around £20 for 20 minutes.

However, if you have a chat with SGHOM (Derek), he will sit in the passenger seat with you and give you advice for free.

chris g
16-12-2006, 01:32 PM
Assuming you have car in good shape......

if you can get to Bedford Autodrome then I would suggest that is the best place to do your first trackday

Donnington has Craner Curves and a few other challenging blind corners

Oulton has some tricky corners for new people

And I think CC has some difficult places - and it feels narrow and crowded to me - but mainly IMO the grave of new/over eager people - Quarry - after you have started to get to eager/fast through Avon Rise

Bedford has much more run off, feels more open/wider and good organisation

You can find Novice only days but that risks another Novice getting too eager and involving you in a costly incident

MSV and EZT have Novice only days at a few different tracks - both organisers are good and should offer a good day but a day with MSV at Bedford would be the best choice IMO

Having run-off areas as some tracks do might be reassuring but sometimes they do not stop you and you carry on into the tyre/armco barriers

Wherever you go, be careful, increase speed through the day ONLY if car/conditions/confidence/ are ok, watch out for others and do not race anyone at all