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bradc
30-10-2006, 08:07 AM
VR-4's are wonderful cars and are generally very reliable, but the one very expensive problem that they have regularly is Automatic gearbox problems. A common problem is the torque converter seal failing, unfortunately there isn't much you can do to protect against it other than keeping an eye on your driveway to look for oil stains.

The rest of the problems are typically loss of drive in one or multiple gears where the engine simply rev's freely and the car doesn't accelerate as it should, jerky action when changing gear or shudder through the car typically when in higher gears.

The first thing and by far the most important is to regularly change the gearbox (ATF) oil and to do it regularly, Kieran has an excellent guide here (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11295) on how to change it, and my recommendation would be to replace it every 15000km to 20000km, and to keep a constant eye on not only the ATF level but the quality and colour as well, and to do it as regularly as you check the engine oil level and the radiator water level. New ATF is a nice Red colour, if your ATF looks anything like what Kieran's did in his thread (poo brown) you need to change it.Remember there is no real warning system in the car for ATF level, and the first indication that something has gone wrong that you will probably have is going to be too late and is going to be rather severe. Mitsubishi only recommend you change it every 45000km, this is simply not correct.


Apart from the oil, the obvious question is:

What else can I do to keep my transmission alive?

After reading all the threads on the subject here, talking to a couple of Mitsi dealers and Ralliart here in NZ, there are a couple of things you should try and do:

Drive in Tiptronic mode where ever possible, this will be explained later

Fit a transmission cooler. Even in normal driving the oil is right on it's temperature limits and if you are towing or doing lots of city driving, the oil will be overheating. There is mention of it in this article here (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19531) and a nice article on fitting one here (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19516)

Do not use the torque converter where ever possible:
This sounds like a strange statement with an Automatic gearbox, but this was explained to me by Ralliart. Lets say you are in a 60kmh zone and are in 5th gear. If you push on the throttle slightly to accelerate, the torque converter will let the engine rpm's rise, and it will not change down into 4th gear. While this is happening the oil is being heated rapidly. Instead of driving in 5th gear around town you should be in 4th gear, and any lower than about 40kmh you should be in 3rd gear. This is the main reason you want to drive in Tiptronic mode, you want to avoid the torque converter as much as possible.

Do not use the gearbox to engine brake:
This simply puts a huge strain on the gearbox. It is not a manual gearbox and is not designed to slow the car down in this way. There have been lots of reports of drivers who have been racing their cars and have been using the gearbox to engine brake and have overheated the transmission. If you are coming up to a stop sign, leave the car in it's current gear, once you come to a stop the transmission will change into first gear on it's own anyway. If you want to select a lower gear, try to do it when the rpm's are as low as possible.

Try to avoid changing throttle position when shifting:
This confuses the transmission and puts a strain on the gears and the torque converter. Full throttle upshifts are fine, as are partial throttle and full throttle upshifts. The transmission ECU knows exactly what the engine ECU is up to, and when you change gear the transmission expects you to keep the throttle in the same state it is in for the whole gear change, and shifts accordingly.


Hopefully these tips will keep your transmission lasting longer. I haven't touched on the obvious common sense points like the harder you drive the car etc etc, but these are some of the points that may not be obvious to some people.

mpau009
30-10-2006, 08:13 AM
Do not use the gearbox to engine brake:
This simply puts a huge strain on the gearbox....


Wish someone had told me that with the STR:5shots:

Great write up too, :2thumbsup

bradc
30-10-2006, 08:17 AM
I used to do it too until I found out auto's aren't built with that in mind, I hope I haven't done any major damage to my gearbox, I need it to work fine for my new VR-4.

Gly
30-10-2006, 08:57 AM
well,

in the 3 years ive had my legnum,

ive only change the trans fluid once,

had a transcooler fitted for a year-ish

i always drive in trip mode,
and i always engine brake...

ive had no issues with it so far... touches wood :D

bradc
30-10-2006, 09:05 AM
I would imagine your cooler running engine and atf cooler would help a lot :D

Physician
30-10-2006, 09:50 AM
Good info there Brad ....... I'm going to put it in Library (and you get a rep point or two!) :happy:

bradc
30-10-2006, 10:31 AM
cool thanks :) (and to Kieran too)

orionn2o
26-02-2007, 12:58 PM
Wheres the dipstick to check the levels??

SGHOM
26-02-2007, 01:01 PM
Wheres the dipstick to check the levels??
He's asleep at the moment...sorry. :baby: :iloveyou:

Funkstar
26-02-2007, 01:07 PM
LOL at Derek. Down the right hand side. Down the side of the Batter Box.

enyawbrown
26-02-2007, 03:24 PM
VR-4's are wonderful cars and are generally very reliable, but the one very expensive problem that they have regularly is Automatic gearbox problems. A common problem is the torque converter seal failing, unfortunately there isn't much you can do to protect against it other than keeping an eye on your driveway to look for oil stains.

The rest of the problems are typically loss of drive in one or multiple gears where the engine simply rev's freely and the car doesn't accelerate as it should, jerky action when changing gear or shudder through the car typically when in higher gears.

The first thing and by far the most important is to regularly change the gearbox (ATF) oil and to do it regularly, Kieran has an excellent guide here (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11295) on how to change it, and my recommendation would be to replace it every 15000km to 20000km, and to keep a constant eye on not only the ATF level but the quality and colour as well, and to do it as regularly as you check the engine oil level and the radiator water level. New ATF is a nice Red colour, if your ATF looks anything like what Kieran's did in his thread (poo brown) you need to change it.Remember there is no real warning system in the car for ATF level, and the first indication that something has gone wrong that you will probably have is going to be too late and is going to be rather severe. Mitsubishi only recommend you change it every 45000km, this is simply not correct.


Apart from the oil, the obvious question is:

What else can I do to keep my transmission alive?

After reading all the threads on the subject here, talking to a couple of Mitsi dealers and Ralliart here in NZ, there are a couple of things you should try and do:

Drive in Tiptronic mode where ever possible, this will be explained later

Fit a transmission cooler. Even in normal driving the oil is right on it's temperature limits and if you are towing or doing lots of city driving, the oil will be overheating. There is mention of it in this article here (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19531) and a nice article on fitting one here (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19516)

Do not use the torque converter where ever possible:
This sounds like a strange statement with an Automatic gearbox, but this was explained to me by Ralliart. Lets say you are in a 60kmh zone and are in 5th gear. If you push on the throttle slightly to accelerate, the torque converter will let the engine rpm's rise, and it will not change down into 4th gear. While this is happening the oil is being heated rapidly. Instead of driving in 5th gear around town you should be in 4th gear, and any lower than about 40kmh you should be in 3rd gear. This is the main reason you want to drive in Tiptronic mode, you want to avoid the torque converter as much as possible.

Do not use the gearbox to engine brake:
This simply puts a huge strain on the gearbox. It is not a manual gearbox and is not designed to slow the car down in this way. There have been lots of reports of drivers who have been racing their cars and have been using the gearbox to engine brake and have overheated the transmission. If you are coming up to a stop sign, leave the car in it's current gear, once you come to a stop the transmission will change into first gear on it's own anyway. If you want to select a lower gear, try to do it when the rpm's are as low as possible.

Try to avoid changing throttle position when shifting:
This confuses the transmission and puts a strain on the gears and the torque converter. Full throttle upshifts are fine, as are partial throttle and full throttle upshifts. The transmission ECU knows exactly what the engine ECU is up to, and when you change gear the transmission expects you to keep the throttle in the same state it is in for the whole gear change, and shifts accordingly.


Hopefully these tips will keep your transmission lasting longer. I haven't touched on the obvious common sense points like the harder you drive the car etc etc, but these are some of the points that may not be obvious to some people.


I'm currently experiencing this and they say I need a new automatic tranny /Grrr

djb160
27-02-2007, 10:15 AM
Well im going to be changing the way I drive now. I thought drive was good for the trans and there'll be no more engine braking for me. Thanks a hell of a lot BradC.

berg1987
27-02-2007, 10:36 AM
ill say, its tip all tip way for me now

TAR
27-02-2007, 07:45 PM
A question - is the torque converter a separate part to the gearbox or is it integral?

Also, why would Mitsi create an auto box which should not be driven in auto?
Is it more a case of look after the box properly with regular oil changes to ensure a long life?

bradc
27-02-2007, 08:59 PM
DJB, drive is fine for heavy traffic, but it's problem is that it wants to shift into 4th and 5th too soon, which as I said above gets the torque converter working which creates a lot of heat.

TAR, the torque converter is part of the auto gearbox. As for what mitsi did, well remember it was them that reduced the power output in the prefacelift auto's, they mustn't have had much faith themselves

djb160
27-02-2007, 11:16 PM
Does this mean the facelift autoboxes are a bit stronger?

bradc
28-02-2007, 07:36 AM
I'm not 100% sure. The part code is the same, maybe mitsi found there weren't too many dieing, so they increased the power slightly.

djb160
28-02-2007, 11:27 AM
In regards to your first post BradC how would one go about changing down to say 3rd or 2nd for a better exit gear going round corners? Normally I'd change down with little throttle and no brake and then accelerate through and out of the corner.

bradc
28-02-2007, 07:25 PM
It's fine, just don't drop down into those gears at really high speed (you shouldn't need to anyway because of the VR-4's engine power range)

djb160
28-02-2007, 09:50 PM
Can I get a definition of high speeds in which gears ie changing down into2nd at say 70kmph ?

bradc
28-02-2007, 10:13 PM
3rd gear has plenty of pull at 70kmh, I wouldn't drop into 2nd gear above 50kmh myself

djb160
28-02-2007, 10:37 PM
Cool, thanks BradC. Any news on your (spare?) ECU ?????

bradc
28-02-2007, 10:44 PM
nope, no pm's from anyone :) I've just checked now and I've got access to it as well

berg1987
04-03-2007, 07:11 AM
anyone got any ideas what the best gear would be to cruise at 50 - 55kph? 3rd or 4th?

bradc
04-03-2007, 07:13 AM
I would cruise in 4th, but if I needed to accelerate I would drop it into 3rd

berg1987
04-03-2007, 07:17 AM
thanks brad, ive noticed the fuel guage go down a little quicker because ive been cruising in 3rd, not smart haha

CANDEE
05-03-2007, 05:58 AM
Must refrain from doing 3k launches.... /pan

bradc
05-03-2007, 06:49 AM
How on earth do you get it up to 3000rpm? I find the car starts going forwards at 2500rpm no matter how hard I have the brakes on

CANDEE
05-03-2007, 07:57 AM
How on earth do you get it up to 3000rpm? I find the car starts going forwards at 2500rpm no matter how hard I have the brakes on

It does that to me too if i dont let the brakes settle first..

When race i normally stage then as soon as ive done that ill put the brake to the floor with my left foot then give it 3-5 seconds to settle then stomp on the gas.. Usually comes up to 3k pretty quickly.. :)

RugbyPete
06-03-2007, 04:06 PM
Hmm, mine revs a bit too freely in a middle gear almost like im slipping the cluth in a manual. car still accelerates but not as fast as I'd expect?
I'm changing the ATF to amsoil in the next few days, could I be wasting my time?

White Lightning
06-03-2007, 05:02 PM
Sounds like that's just the torque converter doing it's job Pete.

Actually, I have started using Tiptronic the last few days since having read this thread again ...

RugbyPete
06-03-2007, 05:12 PM
Do you guys have a real tiptronic on the VR4, where you sideshift to an up and down gearchange?

Mine has just L, 2 and 3 then D...

I do stick it in 2nd and 3rd often though, gives me more control I feel

White Lightning
06-03-2007, 05:13 PM
Do you guys have a real tiptronic on the VR4, where you sideshift to an up and down gearchange?

Yep. :scholar: /rally

ralliart-type-s
06-03-2007, 06:14 PM
Do you guys have a real tiptronic on the VR4, where you sideshift to an up and down gearchange?

:2thumbsup Yeh, it's the 1st time I've had an auto performance car. The tip is great, I can go fAst AND be lazy1!/rally

bradc
06-03-2007, 07:24 PM
Pete - not too sure how your gearbox works then, and whether it locks into a gear or not like a VR-4 tiptronic box, I might need to leave that one for Kieran. :)

RugbyPete
06-03-2007, 07:40 PM
well if i stick it into 3 it still shifts down. However, if I do have a HOLD button, but i've never used it....

2nd is great, its good at 5mph or 60mph, great for getting 0-60 nailed and releases the v6 i feel, as on Drive it feels quite restrained like it has no self confidence :D

Can't wait to get some sort of induction, i can really hear the induction noise already at 5k, its just waiting to be opened up!

Lets get this ATF stuff out the way first though...

djb160
07-03-2007, 10:36 AM
Heres a related question. In tip if we slow down enough the tip will change down right, will it do the same going up at some point? eg 8000rpm

50-60 is a bizzare speed neither 3rd or 4th feel just right. 40 - 45 seems good in 3rd but at 55 @ nearly3000rpm seems off(sounds good though). whereas 50 in 4th is to gutless at below 2000rpm (sounds bloody terrible too)

berg1987
07-03-2007, 10:46 AM
id have to agree with you on the djb, my soulution is to just stick it in 4th when cruising at 50 then flicking it down to 3rd to take off

bradc
07-03-2007, 07:23 PM
In tip it won't change up for you, it is possible to bounce off the rev limiter for ever if you want :)

I drive in 4th mostly around town, I use 1st,2nd,3rd when accelerating, then just cruise along in 4th gear at 60kmh. If I need to accelerate then I'll drop it into 3rd, but that doesn't happen much with the roads I drive on, which is mostly 100kmh

Rambaud
07-03-2007, 08:36 PM
I use 2nd mostly when in town - too difficult to keep below 30 m.p.h. otherwise.

I try to change up around 3000 rpm - max torque is ~ 3500 rpm, IIRC?

bradc
07-03-2007, 09:18 PM
the torque curve is fairly flat on a VR-4 from 3000-5500rpm, I'm not sure about a 2.4gdi.