Headlight problem still continuing [Archive]

MGV6

28-12-2006, 03:51 PM

Some of you may remember my thread months ago regarding th eproblem with my headlights. Basically when I start the car up the headlight come on even though the headlight switch is turned off. When I turn off the engine, they go off. When I put it in 1st ignition, the lights come on and same happens in 2nd ignition.

I took it to my local garage and they couldn't not find any problem. They said nothing wrong with relay switch and nothing wrong with wiring. He said it just like that.

Now we all here know, that is not true. No mitsubishi car ever comes with light sensitive headlights and plus this problem didnt used to happen it only start happening few months back.

I ain't going to Mitsubishi and pay £90 just for a diagnose, let alone fixing it.

Not sure what to do now.

WRD live 100s of miles away so can't take it to them so not sure what to do.

scc

28-12-2006, 04:08 PM

Could be a problem with the switch in your indicator stalk?

scc

MGV6

28-12-2006, 04:26 PM

Could be a problem with the switch in your indicator stalk?

scc

Wouldn't that be the same as relay switch though?

The indicator switch works fine.

Kieran

28-12-2006, 04:30 PM

Would that be the same as relay switch though?

The indicator switch works fine.

Mechanically it may be functional, but the switching mechanism might be on the fritz. There's a service manual in the members area that covers electrical diagnosis on the UK spec models - it might be worth doing the continuity tests if you feel confident with that kinda thing?

MGV6

28-12-2006, 05:24 PM

Mechanically it may be functional, but the switching mechanism might be on the fritz. There's a service manual in the members area that covers electrical diagnosis on the UK spec models - it might be worth doing the continuity tests if you feel confident with that kinda thing?

where abouts?

and how?

Kieran

28-12-2006, 05:31 PM

where abouts?

and how?

All is revealed in the manuals. They're in the Club Library.:scholar:

MGV6

28-12-2006, 05:55 PM

I had a look at it.

I haven't got a clue what its on about. Its all too rocket science. :)

Me no engineer

Wodjno

28-12-2006, 08:02 PM

:vulcan:

SGHOM

28-12-2006, 08:16 PM

Now we all here know, that is not true. No mitsubishi car ever comes with light sensitive headlights .

mine does ?? :happy: :happy:

MGV6

28-12-2006, 08:44 PM

mine does ?? :happy: :happy:

Serious? but was it fitted after market? or standard factory-fitted?

Paul Beazer

28-12-2006, 09:50 PM

Ignore Derek, he's just pulling your leg!

Could it be a faulty relay for the lights? Perhaps your has been set up for day running lights like most volvos have (I THINK its just an extra relay, but dont quote me)

SGHOM

28-12-2006, 10:14 PM

Serious? but was it fitted after market? or standard factory-fitted?

after market. small [ 2" ] relay secreted on the O/S dash. as dusk fell, my lights came on. :scholar:
A classic case for the benefits was at the bunker [ project VX ] As Dave, Kieran & I were unloading PVX from the trailer one evening..... Kieran said " we could do with more light " ........... as he said it..... my headlights came on !!

as cool as !! :afro: :afro: :afro:

Paul Beazer

28-12-2006, 11:50 PM

I stand corrected, sorry Derek!

MGV6

29-12-2006, 08:05 AM

after market. small [ 2" ] relay secreted on the O/S dash. as dusk fell, my lights came on. :scholar:
A classic case for the benefits was at the bunker [ project VX ] As Dave, Kieran & I were unloading PVX from the trailer one evening..... Kieran said " we could do with more light " ........... as he said it..... my headlights came on !!

as cool as !! :afro: :afro: :afro:

oh ok. Mine doesnt have those. I spoke to previous car owner he never fitted anything like that.

MGV6

29-12-2006, 08:06 AM

Could it be a faulty relay for the lights?

Would this be different from the relay switch for the headlights?

Exbury

01-01-2007, 01:36 PM

If you could find someone local who would be willing to swap your relay into their car and see if the same thing happens, otherwise you could probably order one from Zedy1(?) as a test (and a spare if it is not that).

Also is it ONLY the headlights and not the running rear lights also? Do all the lights work as normal, i.e. do you have high beam/low/flashers, fogs etc.? Are they as bright as they should be?

Does there look like any damage to the wiring, i.e. frays, aftermarket accessories, trailer hook etc. (could cause power through an earth wire and light up the bulb).

MGV6

01-01-2007, 10:15 PM

Also is it ONLY the headlights and not the running rear lights also?

Both light up

Do all the lights work as normal, i.e. do you have high beam/low/flashers, fogs etc.?

Yeah, they all work as normal.

Are they as bright as they should be?

No, they appear to be less dim then when I switch the lights to normal mode.

Does there look like any damage to the wiring, i.e. frays, aftermarket accessories, trailer hook etc. (could cause power through an earth wire and light up the bulb).

Not sure really. They don't appear to be but then again I am not 100% certain.

Exbury

02-01-2007, 07:41 PM

Could be wrong but sounds like it could be you have a cross feed off 12V current into your earth leads to the lamps, either in the wiring harness to the lamps, or the relay is screwed (i.e. short-circuited). As your relay is possibly suspect if you can find a willing individual to swap yours into that will test the relay (not the other way around as whatever fault you may have may screw up their relay). Or purchase a good used one.

In order to test the circuit for a fault, you could remove one of the wiring plugs to the headlamp, turn the ignition on so that the lights come on, then with a circuit tester (around £12 basic-£35quality) attach the earth lead from the circuit tester to the body (good contact needed) and put the live probe to the earth wire in the plug (multimeter switched to 12V DC test). If you get a voltage any higher than a nominal voltage then you have +12V being fed into the earth wire and the lamp is earthing out possibly through the live wire. Also try the above, but the probe into the live terminal of the plug instead of the earth terminal. By the sounds of it you should get voltage here. Then try both above but with the ignition completely off, and again with the ignition on and using the headlight switch.

In theory with the light switched on by the switch you should get around 12.3V (ish) volts through the live terminal, dropping to possibly 10-11V when the ignition is on but the switch is off. If you get any reading through the earth terminal then I believe you would have a problem with power running up the earth wire, I would then test this by disconnecting the earth terminal, popping the plug back on the bulb and temporarily bypassing the earth to the one headlight.....but then i don't know how technical to get into this. If you have a mate with the equipment and time best to get him to check it, its not that difficult a job.

best of luck.

MGV6

02-01-2007, 10:32 PM

Cheers Exbury, I will try it. Btw: How do we take out the relay switch? I don't know how to do it. It is a difficult job?

Mitsubishi charge £187 + VAT for a new relay switch :annoyed:

Nutter_John

02-01-2007, 10:45 PM

Gurj , Where do you live as there may be a member nearby , they may have more skills and able to assist

g6acb

02-01-2007, 10:55 PM

MGV6

03-01-2007, 01:10 PM

Gurj , Where do you live as there may be a member nearby , they may have more skills and able to assist

I'm from Essex, Greater London.

Nutter_John

03-01-2007, 01:14 PM

Essex is a big place please narrow it down as if it ain't too far i may be able have a look at the weekend

MGV6

03-01-2007, 01:15 PM

I would have to check to see if there are any differences, but I have both the wiring harness and relay available if you go down that route

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/Classifieds/showproduct.php?product=41&sort=1&cat=4&page=1

yeah, if I can find someone who is able to ascertain if its a faulty relay switch, I'd definately be looking to get hold of a used relay switch providing its the right one.

I need to get the wiring tested too and I dont have the equipment either.

Paul Beazer

03-01-2007, 02:31 PM

£187? FOR A RELAY??!/Grrr

MGV6

03-01-2007, 03:44 PM

£187? FOR A RELAY??!/Grrr

Excluding VAT, yes thats what Mitsubishi told me :)

Nutter_John

03-01-2007, 04:03 PM

what part number did they give you for that ?

Exbury

03-01-2007, 08:01 PM

What part in G/London Essex r u in, I am in Welwyn Garden City and going back where my car currently is (Beds) for the weekend, if you can get your relay to me I would try it in my car if you wish, however it would leave you without your lights over the weekend and u would need to find your relay first.

I would suggest you try the relay first, if its not that then probably the wiring, if it is that, at least you know what you need to replace!

Nutter_John

03-01-2007, 08:32 PM

Not too far from me then Exbury

MGV6

03-01-2007, 08:54 PM

East London, Dagenham.

I'm not sure on the part number but I can find out tommorrow.

Nutter_John

03-01-2007, 08:57 PM

if you find it out I can look it up on Caps and see where it belongs etc , some how I can not see a relay costing 187 quid

MGV6

03-01-2007, 09:02 PM

Sure no problem. John, I'll find out tommorrow morning and get back on that.

Cheers

btw: whats CAPS?

Nutter_John

03-01-2007, 09:05 PM

Misty parts database

MGV6

04-01-2007, 01:18 PM

Update:

I checked with another Mitsubishi and there seems to be a bit of a confusion.

Is the relay different to the headlight switch?

Mitsubishi say they are 2 different things. The relay controlling the flow of electricity to the lights and headlight switch of course to turn the lights on and off.

Anyhow, they said there are several different relay switches on their system so they told me to get the part number from the relay box only then they can quote a price.

In general they said this

Part No. Price
MR301978 £20.39
MR588567 £23.39

I think they have quoted me for the headlight switch.

Paul Beazer

04-01-2007, 01:43 PM

I think you're right, £20 seems more like it, but £187 FOR A HEADLIGHT SWITCH??!!!

Nutter_John

04-01-2007, 01:45 PM

Prob for the entire indicator stalk as well , so will be quite a big and complex piece of kit

MGV6

04-01-2007, 02:03 PM

I think you're right, £20 seems more like it, but £187 FOR A HEADLIGHT SWITCH??!!!

Thats exactly what my local dealer quoted me on :)

MGV6

04-01-2007, 02:06 PM

Update:

It is definately MR588567 - this relay controls the high/low beam

£27.48 incl.VAT

Mitsubishi in Gloucester have confirmed it. There are 6 different relays in the engine controlling different things but the above one is for the headlights (high/low) beam.

Indicator stalk:

Part No:
MR309686

£113.26 incl.VAT :(

There is only 1 type which is used in this country for Galant V6 Sport, Elegance & Equippe as I have been told.

g6acb

04-01-2007, 04:07 PM

There are two types, 1 with and one without the button for headlight washer.... but they are interchangable

Exbury

05-01-2007, 11:49 AM

Sounds more like it on price, relays do occassionally go bad sometimes, doubt it would be the indicator stalk as it seems to be doing its job (but is possible).

Actually, the indicator stalk probably has a plug connector to the wiring harness, if you could identify this and unplug it, and still get the problem its more likely the relay than the switch. Suggest contact someone who breaks Mitsi's and get a 2nd hand relay you need (as a know working one). At least you will be able to eliminate or sort your problems out for limited dosh.

MGV6

05-01-2007, 05:03 PM

g6acb

05-01-2007, 11:35 PM

Right, lets try and put this to bed......

1st - check under the bonnet (thats the big black thing you can see over the steering wheel :evilgrin: ) and see if by any chance you have these two relay boxes bolted to the wing (the dotted lines)

14970

If these are present then you do indeed have 'daytime running lamps' ie the headlamps will automatically come on with the igniton....... something I have never seen before :book:

if not..... the relay switches are in the covered fuse box in the engine bay, just above the battery, it has a handy map on the cover so you will know which relay / fuse does what.... take the cover off (2 press in clips either side) - you will notice that many of the relays ARE THE SAME - they just pull out vertically with a bit of force - swap with another non vital one (suggest central locking) and test it with that

I have just had a look at my cars, my facelift has MB629085 for several relays - my dead pre facelift has MR588567 as the part number but they appear to be the same - well I just swapped them and didn't blow up anyway.......

14971

You say both the front and rear lights come on with the ignition?? if so it is unlikley to be relay related as they are switched by 2 relays?????

MGV6

07-01-2007, 08:21 AM

if not..... the relay switches are in the covered fuse box in the engine bay, just above the battery, it has a handy map on the cover so you will know which relay / fuse does what.... take the cover off (2 press in clips either side) - you will notice that many of the relays ARE THE SAME - they just pull out vertically with a bit of force - swap with another non vital one (suggest central locking) and test it with that

the relay switches in the fuse box are all the same? Some of them have different part codes written on them but would the lights work if I take the existing one out and replace with one of the other relay switches in the fuse box?

g6acb

07-01-2007, 07:03 PM

the relay switches in the fuse box are all the same? Some of them have different part codes written on them but would the lights work if I take the existing one out and replace with one of the other relay switches in the fuse box?

Not all the relays are the same, but there should be 4 or 5 the same.... the ones nearest to the headlamp relay are (from memory) for the central locking and aircon and on both my cars are the same relay.... bear in mind that I have a different car to you so if yours is any different explain how (pictures are good!) and we will see if we can work through the problem.....

.... will the lights work if you replace the relay?.... well, finding out is kind of the point of the exercise, is it not??

Did you check for the two boxes on the drivers side wing - like the first diagram ?????????

MGV6

07-01-2007, 09:09 PM

I didn't see any double black boxes anywhere.

I have managed to take some quick pictures (see below - you might need to double click to zoom in for detail). I was wondering if someone could point out with arrows which one is for the headlight (high/low beam). please :)

I don't have a replacement so I suppose I will need to pull an existing one out from there so again if somebody could advise which one would be best to pull out and test. I know Nutter John said earlier try central locking one, which one is that and will it mess up C/L ?

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/6120/dsc00001qo3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/1436/dsc00002yi7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/8238/dsc00006iu7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/5267/dsc00004qc0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/2569/dsc00005xl1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

g6acb

07-01-2007, 09:54 PM

relays are letters, fuses are numbers - relay for headlights is 'E' - would suggest exchanging it for any relay that has the same part number and is 'none vital' for example 'G' which controls the horn - as long as it is the same part number (it is in my car)

this will test to see if the relay is at fault for the lights comming on

Can you confirm if the rear lights come on when you turn ignition as well as the fronts?? - 'cause if they do it is unlikley to be relay related

MGV6

07-01-2007, 10:06 PM

only the rear brake lights show up with Ignition on.

Ok so Letter E from the diagram controls high/low beam?

What about those that have both letters and numbers? E.g. theres about 6 relays with MB629085 written on it in my fuse box.

g6acb

07-01-2007, 10:12 PM

'E' is headlights, 'D' is main beam i think

Paul Beazer

07-01-2007, 10:23 PM

Right, following a request from GTZ i've looked under the bonnet and the piture below should clarify everything ( I hope!)
All 7 relays circled in red are the same, looking at the fusebox cover it looks like the two we're most interested in are 'D' and 'E'?
Details on the relays:-

Relay
MB629085
156700-0780
12v
Denso

Hope this helps

BTW My car is a 2000 post facelift v6sport with the same bumper lights etc as GTZ101

MGV6

07-01-2007, 10:26 PM

Perfect!

I will work on it tommorrow afternoon and I will provide feedback on here in the evening.

Thanks for the input guys :)

I will put in the horn relay and carry out the tests.

Turbo_shaz

03-07-2008, 11:54 AM

I know this post is years old, but i now have the same problem and this didn't appear to be solved! :inquisiti

Ive had my Legnum VR4, 1997 pre-facelift R reg, nearly 6 months now, an amazing car and loved to bits but noticed the other night the headlights turned on by themselves while i was driving, not on the stalk just on the dash! It was starting to get dark when this happened. Full headlights not sidelights. When i stopped i checked the back lights and they were on as well, indicator stalk still saying set to 0. Since then its only turned them off at night when the engines stopped, refuses to otherwise! This however only happens at night, i get to decide if the headlights should be on or not during the day! Its not a problem as its just as night, but its really just because i cant believe i didn't notice this before! So can it be light sensitive lights or is my car been next to my 5 turbo to long and picking up bad habits??! :speechles Thanks for any theory's in advance :happy:

Sharon

Paul Beazer

03-07-2008, 12:08 PM

Sounds like something a bit screwy is going on. The cars arent fitted with day running lights, from what you describe it sounds like you car has auto light switching. Never heard of it before.
They deffo dont come on in daylight by themselves?

Turbo_shaz

03-07-2008, 12:17 PM

I don't use the car every day, but its not done it during the day so far now ive been eagle eyed! Used it last night in the dark and lights working by themselves and im just back from the dentists this morning and it let me decide :inquisiti Like you say i think its messing with my head, i shall go out once dark and test again! Im just a wee bit worried it is a wiring problem or something and more things will begin to happen!

Davezj

03-07-2008, 01:09 PM

have you got odd looking thing on the dash pointing out the front screen.
if so it could be an after market auto light on system. take a pic of dash to let us see as you probably don't have anything to compare it with to see if tit looks normal.

Kieran

03-07-2008, 01:25 PM

Seeing as it's a VR-4 (IE it's come in from Japland) there's a good chance as Dave says that there's an auto lighting system on the car somewhere.

Turbo_shaz

03-07-2008, 02:40 PM

Thanks, just went out and took photos of dash........erm problem solved theres a little round box in the corner that if you look really closely says 'auto light' cant believe its taken me 6 months to notice my car had this! Im quite particular with my lights at night though, and usually stay in the car till the turbo timers off so thats why ive not noticed before /pan Thanks for the help everyone :happy:

uploaded/51209/1215092193.jpg
uploaded/51209/1215092260.jpg

Theres another thing on the other side though, is this something to do with the jap GPS?

uploaded/51209/1215092302.jpg

Thanks again,

Sharon

Kieran

03-07-2008, 03:20 PM

Derek (SGHOM) had a very similar system on his 1st VR4.

Yes, the square box is a GPS reciever. Has your car got the MMCS, or an aftermarket thing?

Turbo_shaz

03-07-2008, 04:14 PM

Thanks :happy: My cars Jap owner had a thing for Alpine i think, every things Alpine, its got double head unit and Alpine Jap Sat nav box (don't think there is a disk in it) under the chair with a free standing tv screen (that does nothing but show dots :thinking: lol) From what ive read i don't think i have this MMCS.

uploaded/51209/1215097794.jpg

uploaded/51209/1215097820.jpg

uploaded/51209/1215097859.jpg

Kieran

03-07-2008, 11:47 PM

Subaru ETA

04-07-2008, 01:42 AM

i see you have the ralliart dash..good stuff

Beastlee

04-07-2008, 08:39 PM

That's DJ Dimes old car isn't it? Had some fancy kit in it when I went to look at it.

Turbo_shaz

06-07-2008, 10:42 PM

Yeah, you deffo don't have MMCS. The MMCS uses a similar GPS antenna but it's mounted 'in' the dash - I did wonder if a previous owner had moved it but seeing as you've an aftermarket system that's now a redundant question!

Thanks for all your help, learn something new everyday :scholar:
Cheers Subaru ETA, it is a nice wee touch in the car :happy:
This is DJ Dimes old car, got it from him in February, well happy with it :iloveyou:

Sharon