Saddam hanged

[SGHOM]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/

[AncientOfMu]

F***ing disgraceful.

[ritch_w]

just watched the footage on the web, how do we know he is really dead......

[Kieran]

I had another bad night, so I was watching News24 when this story broke. It was interesting - as you can imagine, they were scrambling for content and to plug the gaps, they had a member of Saddam's defence team in the studio - a very astute man who had a very balanced point of view. His views on the affair were interesting in that I was expecting a lot of anti-US rhetoric.... But there wasn't. He did maintain that the hanging didn't solve all Iraq's ills and that there was an air of Hipocrosy about it, especially when one considers people like Pol Pot, Mugabe, Kim-Jong-Jim-Jams (whatever!) and the rest.... But then... None of them have been as warmongering as Mr. Hussein was.

The way I see it is that Saddam has been tried and sentenced by an Iraqi justice system. Some say it was a 'rigged' court - I wouldn't like to comment on that can of worms, other than to say I don't think it was.

I think perhaps the best way to view this is by the reaction of the Iraqi people - and from what I've seen and read so far, I don't think he'll be missed by many of them.

[glynn]

when i was out in iraq during the second gulf war the iraqi people were so glad that Saddam had been removed from power. In fact they couldn't hide their excitement of having a normalish type of life again.
Just goes to show what type of hold of power he had over the people there
. So no i don't think he will be missed by the majority, i for one am glad he has gone but like anything else there's always somebody else to take his place (sad but true).

[colVR4]

The crimes that Saddam Hussein committed are indefensable, however that does not excuse the way in which he has had to pay for those crimes. How any civilized people can still continue with execution in this day-and-age is beyond me.
What makes it even more sickening is the fact that the UK were complicit in handing over Saddam Hussein to the Iraqi authorities in order that they could sentence him to death and carry out that sentence. Capital punishment had been outlawed in the UK since MP Sydney Silverman introduced a Private Members' Bill to suspend it in 1965. Similarly, The European Union (EU) is opposed to the death penalty in all cases and has consistently espoused its universal abolition, working towards this goal.
This sets a rather disturbing precedent for the future whereby the UK could extradite criminals to other countries in order that death penalties are carried out. Some people will come out with the argument that it was the US who captured, held and subsequently handed him over to the Iraqi authorities. Convenient that the UK should be held accountable for its actions as a COALTION PARTNER only when it suits it to do so. It was the coalition that retained Saddam Hussein and allowed the Iraqi Justice system to hand him, therefore the UK had as much a part as any.
It is a day that I can truly say I feel shame for being a member of that coalition. Saddam Hussein will become a martyr around which a cause will strnegthen and grow and will lead to an increase in attacks against Western targets... who then will take the blame?
anyway... rant over

[Spirit]

I agree with your comments about him becoming a martyr and attacks on Western targets will likely increase. I can also understand the way he was handed over etc was not ideal, however I have to be frank and say he deserved to be executed !

What other fit punishment for a man who was responsible so many thousands of other executions ? Would you simply have him locked up for years to come, with the constant risk and threat of escape attempts and the chance he may yet again become free in society ?

[Brunty]

What other fit punishment for a man who was responsible so many thousands of other executions ?

Interesting that Pinochet was never handed back to the Chileans?

Was he hung for having WMDs or for not having WMDs? I find this all very confusing.

[Nutter_John]

whats a WMD ????

don't answer i'm being provocative to take the heat out of this emotional thread ;)

[Alex]

Personally, I didn't agree with the war in Iraq, and nor do I agree with the death penalty. However, given that was happened, and Saddam captured in the way that he was, I don't really see that we had any right NOT to hand him over to Iraqi authorities. We've taken a high enough hand in this as it is without denying the Iraqi people the freedom to deal deliver justice according to their own democratic process. (Not that I'm saying that the process isn't flawed). Just my opinion for what it's worth.

[MGV6]

I imagine there will be other extremists, terrorists are likely to follow the same fate as his today in the future.

Victory for many Iraqi's but its the small minority that are going to create problems now.

[I-S]

When can we do the same to Mr Bush?

I don't think this is a good thing... Was saddam a good man? No, absolutely not. Was it not extremely hypocritical to meter out the same to him as he gave others and yet somehow believe we're in a higher moral position?

Let's see what happens now. How will the rest of the Arab world view us after this? Will Saddam become a martyr?

All I think is sure is that this is not the end.

[AncientOfMu]

F***ing disgraceful.

Perhaps after all the discussion I should expand on my quote :thinking:

I think the Death Penalty is disgraceful.

And people in the club who are close to me will know why that particular method bothers me.

And on that note I'm off to play with my christmas toys .../toycar

[bradc]

Col - he was handed over because 100% of his crimes were committed in Iraq, and not in the UK/US. I highly doubt that this will become a way for the UK to kill people, unless they have specific ties with another country.

I disagree with the death penalty as well, but I think in this case there needed to be an exception, I think it was perfectly acceptable that he was killed.

This is going to open a *huge* can of worms here, but a history teacher said once that Hitler was better than Saddam because at least Hitler killed people from other countries and other religions/sects, whereas Saddam killed mostly his own country men, and whoever he wanted, whenever he wanted. I'm not 100% agreeing with him here, but I do think that Saddam would have to be in the top 5 worst people of the last Century, and it doesn't bother me at all that he was killed.

[MGV6]

The big question asked by many people now is, is Saddam Hussein going to be more dangerous dead or when he was alive?

[Nick Mann]

I can't condone the death penalty and consider myself civilised. A large part of me thinks that he deserved no less, but taking a life is not something that anybody should do without exceptional reason. Most religions say that killing is wrong, not 'killing is mostly wrong, but if you are really annoyed you can make an exception'. Many people will quote the bible as teaching do not kill, but a few will modify this to be do not murder. Even without religious arguments, I find it a bit conflicting to say I am well taught, educated, thoughtful, considerate, informed, aware etc, but agree with the death penalty.

[Xeroid]

I note the various posts about the Death penalty and people's feelings on it. How do they feel about Saddams use of it by his death squads ? Torture of his own people, those whose faith differed by a little from what his was ? Or whose ethnic background was not his, the Kurds, the Shi'ites, all Iraqui but enemies ...

No, I am not pro death penalty, no, I am not of any of the relegions or ethnic groups above, I'm western, white, sort of christian in a loose way. No, I am not pro USA, I think they are as extreme as the people they denounce as extremists in many ways. but I have to say some people lose the right to live by their own actions. Some have not been prosecuted as they should have been. Any person who convinces another to give their own life as a human bomb eg, children, mothers, ....they all fall into that category. So called 'Religious' leaders who twist the teachings of a faith to suit their own bigoted viewpoint, to oppress their own people, incite them to violence.

I'm glad Saddam has gone, it removes a 'flashpoint' to some degree. While he was alive he would have been a rallying icon but death although making him a martyr to some extent also mean some one else has to step up and start again Saddams memory will fade, he'll become just another nasty in the past.

I just wish people were more tolerant, it wouldd be so much easier. I don't begrudge anybody their religion or beleifs as long as they let me have mine. After all it's probably the same 'Big Guy' up there just wearing a few different disguises.

I'm glad NZ didn't do an 'Aussie' and blindly follow Bush off to war in Iraq, I'm glad we live way down in the South Pacific away from most of the mudslinging. I'm glad the reputation of our armed froces is that of going in after and fixing things up again, befriending the local children, building schools and bridges and infrastructure and hospitals.

Better stop ranting ....

[colVR4]

My own personal belief is that no-one should have the right of life taken from them. Just because someone else commits terrible crimes does give anyone the right to commit those crimes back upon them.

I am not Christian, Muslim or Hindu... I follow my own belief system and that system does not include taking away the life of anyone, for any reason. The simple factor for me is because we are human and we get things wrong. Is it worth killing 10 guilty people if one innocent person if killed? What about a million guilty people if one innocent person is killed? Sorry, whatever the odds, it just doesn't add up for me!!

I realize that to some of you this may seem a little off considering the awful acts that were carried out but by what right do we make that decision? However, I understand that it is an immotive subject and that different people feel differently about it. So I want to clarify that this is only my opinion and that I can completely understand the opinions that you all voice.

[Funkstar]

I agree and have seen evidence of the fact that he was an absolute b**tard of a man, but the death penalty, and the way it came about seems all a litle bit too American led for me. I would have rather have seen him spend the rest of his disgraceful life behind bars, getting his just deserves.

One thing I would like to say is that I have spent most of today on the internet (with the lurgi and nothing much else to do) and the majority of posts in many other forums have been on the same topic...... As you would expect. But this is the only thread I have read where the person gets to say his part without being flamed down by the next poster. Also, the level of intelligence and understanding seems to be on another level with you guys.

Just another reason why CVR4 is A cut above the rest.....:iloveyou:

...just my tuppence worth.




Better get off those hot toddy's and get to bed.

[MJR]

Am finding it hard to believe he's actually dead by that video,

Just seems fake to me, like a set-up death :(

[Pete M]

I'm sure there is ample video of the whole process, which is not being released to the general public out of respect for their sensitivities. I expect it to become available on the net in due course.
Subsequent photos, with him in a white body bag, show the head at an impossible angle to the body, which would indicate he really is dead. Pehaps, like Elvis, he will pop up in supermarkets etc, as there were several official look-alikes, and nearly all his generals seemed to be wannabe Saddams, with the same moustache etc.

Just my two cents worth, to provide a counter-point to the above comments: The death penalty may not fit our society, but they do things differently out there. His execution? Bloody good job, he lived by the sword and died by it, and seemed to accept it in the end. No other way to deal with him, otherwise he would just be a focal point for more unrest. As a possible but very dubious martyr, he just joins the ranks of the many thousand that went before.

Would we have hanged Hitler? Imagine the problems with Neo-Nazis if we had just kept him in prison till he died, perhaps until 1990! We didn't get the chance to try him, but several of his subordinates were hanged, so there seems no doubt we would have hanged him too.

Over 90% of the Iraqi civilian deaths have been at the hands of other Iraqi. Perhaps now they will accept that Sunni and Shia must learn to tolerate each other and respect each other's views.

I hope that we can also tolerate each other's views here, and the fact that I have a different opinion to some of you will not provoke a flame-storm.

Happy New Year to all!

[valmes]

****ing animals...

I don't get it - what kind of "relief" do they get from hanging him? Was Saddam a threat in Jail? Was his regime still in power? Didn't he already pay the price?

Sorry it is just beyond me... I think dying naturally in prison is more of a punishment...

[valmes]

I'm sure there is ample video of the whole process, which is not being released to the general public out of respect for their sensitivities. I expect it to become available on the net in due course.
Subsequent photos, with him in a white body bag, show the head at an impossible angle to the body, which would indicate he really is dead. Pehaps, like Elvis, he will pop up in supermarkets etc, as there were several official look-alikes, and nearly all his generals seemed to be wannabe Saddams, with the same moustache etc.

Just my two cents worth, to provide a counter-point to the above comments: The death penalty may not fit our society, but they do things differently out there. His execution? Bloody good job, he lived by the sword and died by it, and seemed to accept it in the end. No other way to deal with him, otherwise he would just be a focal point for more unrest. As a possible but very dubious martyr, he just joins the ranks of the many thousand that went before.

Would we have hanged Hitler? Imagine the problems with Neo-Nazis if we had just kept him in prison till he died, perhaps until 1990! We didn't get the chance to try him, but several of his subordinates were hanged, so there seems no doubt we would have hanged him too.

Over 90% of the Iraqi civilian deaths have been at the hands of other Iraqi. Perhaps now they will accept that Sunni and Shia must learn to tolerate each other and respect each other's views.

Why not deal with the problem then? Justice must be served... they should hang all "other" Iraqies...? That's sarcasm... in case someone interpreted it in the wrong way.

[valmes]

One thing for sure... none of us knows the truth. We get all our "news" with "the right angle"... We already know who is "bad". Isn't it interesting? In real life things are a bit more complicated... to say the least...

[colVR4]

No justice was carried out here, this was pure and simple revenge!!

[Kieran]

No justice was carried out here, this was pure and simple revenge!!

I agree with that to a point, Col - but then, from what I see and read, most Iraqis wanted to have that revenge on him - so maybe justice *was* delivered, though perhaps not in the "Civilised" western way that we're all used to.

[pitslayer]

see now im my opinion im going to have to disagree with people here...
he was a tyrant, he killed thousands, people were afraid of him for there famillys, so much so that they would praise him, for fear of death. thats fact

anyone who disagrees with going to war to bring saddam down, go live there, sure if we put another evil dictator there, you will love living there, no freedom to do anything, because ive found that most who will protest about this war, wont go there wont live there to actually see what life is like there, with an evil dictator in power, and these are the same people who say hitler was an evil man

i believe there should be a penalty fit for the crime. eye for an eye tooth for a tooth, but thats my opnion and without wanting to offend people, i will not go into that

however iraqs problems, arent over. as for saddams death, they said they werent realeasing any video orriginally yet 40 minutes after watching that on the bbc it was posted up by some guy on you tube, so i believe the video is fake. i believe hes been hung thow, ok it may cause problems now, but suppose if we just stuck him in a jail, forgot about him. now i know it seems unlikely but he will still have followers out there, and they could try to get him out and back into power, or even start up a terrosit group.

the iraq war wasnt about WMDs was all about oil

[bernmc]

I fully support capital punishment. The punishment should fit the crime. If you're prepared to slaughter someone else, then be prepared to suffer the same fate.

No punishment --> more crime - The UK is a great example. Crime here has no consequences, so criminals are laughing all the way to the bank. They even get to sue the government (and those of us that pay tax foot the bill)!

Spent a few days in Dubai - they cut off your hand if you're caught stealing there. Guess how many thieves there are ready to nick your wallet... never felt so safe and relaxed!

I find Saddam's execution vid as disturbing as anybody, but this is because executions aren't something I see every day. I'd feel worse seeing a cat or dog run over.

And why the hell should decent citizens have to pay to keep these bastards fed & watered for the rest of their sorry little lives? They're not reformable; are always going to be a threat to the rest of us... off with their heads!

[Nick VR4]

During the eight-year war Saddam Hussein had launched against Iran in 1980, hundreds of thousands of Iraqis (and probably even more Iranians) died. Iraq used nerve and mustard gas against Iranian forces.


Iran-Iraq war:
1980-88
War breaks out
Israeli bombing
Chemical warfare
Western support
Truce and debt

Gulf War:
1990 - 1991
Kuwait invasion
Desert Storm
Scud missiles
Civilian casualties
Ground war
Iraqi ceasefire

Containment:
1991-2002
Uprisings
After the war
No-fly zones
Oil-for-Food
Desert Fox
Inspectors barred

Second war:
2003-06
US-led invasion
Saddam captured
Iraq in turmoil
Trial of Saddam



I dont think he would have lasted long in prison TBH killed my someone

[BraindG]

I feel along the same line as Bern on this one.

[gdelargy]

I'm not that bothered about the execution; Iraq has the death penalty and of course he was a profoundly evil man, if nothing like as bad as he was painted. At killing civilians, he pales beside Pol Pot and Stalin. And how many Brits are aware that in 1984, four years before his gassing of the Kurds and right in the middle of the Iran-Iraq war, the UK sold him 40 tons of Sarin nerve gas ingredients. Did we think he was going to spray crops with it? It's a bit disingenuous to accuse him of chemical warfare when he bought the stuff from UK plc.
(source: Amnesty International, quoting The Guardian newspaper (http://web.amnesty.org/pages/ttt4-article_7-eng))

It's ironic that during his 25 year reign something like a million people are supposed to have died (about three quarters of which were during the 1979-88 Iraq War), which was the reason he was such a bad man and it was so important to topple him -- especially after it was realised that there were no WMDs -- but now figures are emerging that something like 600,000 may have died in the country just since our invasion in 2003. If the bodycount was the benchmark of what a terrible regime he ran, how is Iraq better off now?
(Source: New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/11/world/middleeast/11casualties.html?ex=1318219200&en=516b1d070ff83c15&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss))

I don't honestly think there'll be a lot more fighting as a result of the execution, though. The real battles are (a) to get rid of the Christian Western forces occupying their country, and (b) to regain some of the power lost by the Kurds and Shi'ites over the past 30 years. Saddam's execution won't change that. We have to realise that in a lot of ways, Iraq is an artificial country, created by interfering colonialists (first Britain, then latterly the US) who saw it expedient to have a single nation in the region because of its strategic military importance. Saddam's regime, and the Baathist regime before him (all the way back to the 1950s) was the dictatorial glue which held it all together. Like the former Yugoslavia, it's a nation of peoples who don't really want to live together all that much.


G

[Alex]

No punishment --> more crime - The UK is a great example. Crime here has no consequences, so criminals are laughing all the way to the bank. They even get to sue the government (and those of us that pay tax foot the bill)!


Slight exaggeration there. While I agree that human rights sometimes seem to lead to senseless decisions, I can't agree that crime in this country has no consequences. I don't think the offenders I see would agree either - of course there are always some who don't seem to care what the law does, but that isn't the case for everyone. The media aren't interested in the success stories, so instead the criminal justice system gets a constant battering. But I wouldn't be wasting my time if I didn't see the worth in my job.

[Pete M]

Whew! I thought for a moment there I was out on my own, supporting the execution. Saddam was supplied by the US and UK at one time, but you can be sure he put the maximum of spin on to convince them what a good guy he was, and that the evil Iran should be punished etc. He did a pretty good snow job on George Galloway, who is now, erm, very quiet.
Let's not forget we were allies with Stalin at one time, and he put even Hitler in the shade for deaths, all of which we were unaware of. The shifting sands of middle east politics are treacherous, and choosing which regime to support when they're all just as bad as each other is damn tricky.
Of course 20/20 hindsight is one of the greatest weapons the left bring to bear at times like this, because when it comes to real fighting they're hiding under their beds. When the dust settles they pop their heads up and say, "Naughty, naughty, I told you so!"