MAP ECU vs eManage

[bernmc]

I'm suffering from notenoughfidlingwiththeVR4itis...

Considering some form of fuel management - either MAP ECU, or the whole bang-shooting eManage.

Anyone have any suggestions as to which I should choose? MAP ECU seems a bit cheaper, and sounds simpler to set up - probably enough for my modest tuning ambitions...?

I suppose the eManage is ultimately more versatile, but I'm not sure I'd use the full functionality, and I don't like the idea of my check engine light blazing permanently....

Thoughts form those who have used both would be appreciated...

In terms of tuning, I'm unlikely to get beyond a set of hard pipes and a bigger intercooler on top of the boost controller and exhaust I already have. Doubt I'd ever start playing with injectors and turbos.

EDIT: and now I see there's MAP ECU2.. which seems to do all the emanage does... (but for $695US)?

[Wodjno]

I'm suffering from notenoughfidlingwiththeVR4itis...

Considering some form of fuel management - either MAP ECU, or the whole bang-shooting eManage.

Anyone have any suggestions as to which I should choose? MAP ECU seems a bit cheaper, and sounds simpler to set up - probably enough for my modest tuning ambitions...?

I suppose the eManage is ultimately more versatile, but I'm not sure I'd use the full functionality, and I don't like the idea of my check engine light blazing permanently....

Thoughts form those who have used both would be appreciated...

In terms of tuning, I'm unlikely to get beyond a set of hard pipes and a bigger intercooler on top of the boost controller and exhaust I already have. Doubt I'd ever start playing with injectors and turbos.

EDIT: and now I see there's MAP ECU2.. which seems to do all the emanage does... (but for $695US)?

Bern..

The ECL does not have to be lit at all times.. /pan The e-manage Blue will not light your ECL light at all.. :inquisiti Only the e-manage Ultimate will do that. But there is a little box of tricks that when added will solve the problem and ECL light will be extinguished :scholar:

Oh yes.. And i have an E-Manage Blue if you want 1 :pimp2:

BDA (Enigma):inquisiti
pezza
Bonsai Boy

all have e-manage blues fitted.. so if you need any info on the blue then there the peeps to ask :happy:

If it's about an Ultimate then it's Valmes or Myself :D

If it's a Map ECU, i think BDA and Can't remember who else, but i think it was some Zealanders :)

[Gly]

kenneth had one in,

and osiris bought one but never fitted it?

[enigma]

If you dont want timing adjustment then the MAP ECU is good - although you really ought to remove the MAF to get the benefit.

If you might want timing adjustment (I have never used it in anger) then the blue is the way to go.

If you want all the bells and whistles then the ultimate or MAP ECU 2 would be best.

I will be selling my emanage blue, MAP ECU and Apexi AVCR in the near future.

Which one do you want :kiss:

[bernmc]

Tending towards the MAP ECU at the moment - seems simpler, and I like the idea of getting rid of the MAF.

EM Blues can be had pretty cheaply though... decisions decisions!

[enigma]

Tending towards the MAP ECU at the moment - seems simpler, and I like the idea of getting rid of the MAF.

EM Blues can be had pretty cheaply though... decisions decisions!

Whats pretty cheap.......................:inquisiti

MAP ECU will not be dear.......

[Gowf]

I am currently in exactly the same situation, and was actually going to start a thread on the same topic. At first i thought of using an apexi safc neo, with a dawes device and a fuel cut defender to keep costs down. However, i dont know whether i would end up happy, or as tends to happen, continue on the mission for more power and end up spending more in the long run. I've also looked into stand alone ecu's from GEMS. Not at all cheap but would never have to change once in. Dont really have much experience of the piggy back emanage. How difficult are they to map? do you have to write tables from scratch or do they work on the principle of using the cars current map as a base?

[Kieran]

And likewise.... I really don't know where to go either. I have ruled out the E-Manage ultimate as I don't think I'll get full use out of it. I'm leaning towards a MAP ECU.... But not sure.:thinking:

[enigma]

How difficult are they to map? do you have to write tables from scratch or do they work on the principle of using the cars current map as a base?

Not that hard, but it depends on your experience..........

They use the factory map and the idea is you can add or remove fuel based on a table, similarly you can alter timing with the emanage and the emanage ultimate.

[enigma]

I can probably arrange a group buy on MAP ECUs if I get enough people. Direct from NZ at good rates.

[Kieran]

I can probably arrange a group buy on MAP ECUs if I get enough people. Direct from NZ at good rates.

How many orders would you need Dave?

[enigma]

How many orders would you need Dave?

Dunno I will find out

[Gowf]

is this on the MAP ecu 2 for a group buy?

[Nick Mann]

I would recommend not using a fuel cut defender without proper emission monitoring. Although, to be fair, I would recommend not playing with fuelling without proper emmission monitoring!

[Gowf]

the emmisions would be monitered using a wideband and digital display. just a bit confused about the most cost effective way about going about things

[Wodjno]

If theres enough interest ?? I can see about ordering a bulk load of LC-1's for monitoring AFR's and other bits and pieces. :thinking: The offers there if you want..
Not sure what prices would be as i've lost touch with them.. But if theres enough interest i'll have a looksee :inquisiti

[Kenneth]

kenneth had one in,

and osiris bought one but never fitted it?

Nope, osiris didn't buy mine. So I still have it lying around.

[Axeboy]

Id be interested in a Map group buy.

I was going to fit the Emanage Ultimate and have it tuned by Marc at The Garage.

[Wodjno]

Id be interested in a Map group buy.

I was going to fit the Emanage Ultimate and have it tuned by Marc at The Garage.

If you don't want the Ultimate ? Then let me know :pimp2:

[The Vee]

Slight Hijack but on the same subject - Wodj, what's that digital gauge that I want. Gonna get the right one and be done with it. Must get Ultimate and LC-1 fitted soon

[Nutter_John]

Count me in for group sex , oops sorry wrong forum /lol
yep i'd be in on this one as my fuel tank is starting to strink due to overfuel

[Axeboy]

Any excuse John

Haha

I better buy this super mod for my car, its using too much fuel...


Vrmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Wodjno]

Slight Hijack but on the same subject - Wodj, what's that digital gauge that I want. Gonna get the right one and be done with it. Must get Ultimate and LC-1 fitted soon

XD-16 :scholar:

[The Vee]

cheers mate:iloveyou:

[Gowf]

If you can get prices I probably would be interested in LC-1 and Map ecu2. Although probably usualy ends up as definately in my case

[Wodjno]

If you can get prices I probably would be interested in LC-1 and Map ecu2. Although probably usualy ends up as definately in my case

LC-1 Interest


Gowf

I'll start another thread :D

Anyone interested in any other Kit from the Innovate range: http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/!

Let me know and i'll see what prices i can get !!

[Gowf]

Well it'd be good to know the price of the kit with the xd-16

[enigma]

MAP ECU group buy is off, I have been told by the manufacturer that for all MAP ECU needs see benh!

[bernmc]

Last time I spoke to benh, he was doing the MAP ECU for £230. I'll pm him and see what he can do, and whether he can get the mark 2.

[enigma]

Last time I spoke to benh, he was doing the MAP ECU for £230. I'll pm him and see what he can do, and whether he can get the mark 2.

He can.

Dont forget I have my used one for sale still.

[bernmc]

He can.

Dont forget I have my used one for sale still.

pm me with a price, big boy ;)

[Paul C]

LC-1 Interest


Gowf
paulc

I'll start another thread :D

Anyone interested in any other Kit from the Innovate range: http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/!

Let me know and i'll see what prices i can get !!

add me

[bernmc]

Roit. I've decided on the MAP ECU... but flavour one or the new Flavour 2...

The only thing that attracts me about the 2 is the ability to control a boost solenoid, so I'd end up with an all-in-one solution, rather than having a separate boost controller. Double the price though...

Anybody know whether I could use the std boost solenoid, or whether I'd have to get a separate unit.. if so where/what...?

Does anyone here have an aftermarket ECU that controls their boost as well?

[Wodjno]

Roit. I've decided on the MAP ECU... but flavour one or the new Flavour 2...

The only thing that attracts me about the 2 is the ability to control a boost solenoid, so I'd end up with an all-in-one solution, rather than having a separate boost controller. Double the price though...

Anybody know whether I could use the std boost solenoid, or whether I'd have to get a separate unit.. if so where/what...?

Does anyone here have an aftermarket ECU that controls their boost as well?

Both Emanage Blue and Ultimate have this facilty.. :inquisiti I think Bonsai Boy is using his Blue to control Boost :thinking:

[Eurospec]

Hello guys,

Yes, we are the uk importer for the map ecu.

We would offer a group buy on either the first or second generation units.

If you let me know how many units you might want the group buy for, i will create special pricing for you.

The original units are a very effective fuel controller in my oppinion. Much better specced than say an apexi afc or neo. If you are after a basic fuel controller, the map ecu probably is the best one- but then you expected me to say that.

The removal of the maf is a big help and the ability to fully control afr is excellent. This is nothing like an afc where you have 16 points, this has a 274 point 3d map (manifold vs rpm vs air flow).

It is slightly more complex to install, and you really need to tap in somewhere in the intake tract to fit the air temp sensor.

I will be totally up front here and point out that these units are not as easy to set up as the simpler units- just because they are so flexible and at minimum you will need a wideband to set it up correctly yourself. You would be well advised to use the 'log to map' program created by Enigma i think to create your own base map to work from, rather than to stick to the self learn function to create one. The former way will save you time.


Also, remember when setting one up on a VR4, you are going to remove the MAF. The MAf meters the air at the very point it enters the intake tract. When you convert to MAP, you are measuring at the inlet manifold. Clearly the stock ECU knows that the air once meters takes a certain amount of time to travel from the MAF through the intake pipes, to the turbos, through the intercooler, out and into the throttle boddy and manifold.

For this reason, you get a 'lag' which you have to tune around as the std ecu will not fire in fuel until it thinks the air has reached the manifold. In actual fact the map ecu has already read the air in the manifold, hence you get what people refer to as the lean tipin. The phenominan that in response to a quick change of throttle position you get a very short delay before the fuel is added. You tune round this using the MAP ECU's TPS and MAP enrichment table to lessen the effect.

Hope thats useful.

Cheers,

Ben.

[Gowf]

Right then, i may as well bite the bullet and say yes, sign me up for for a MAP2. Also, is there any progress on the price for the LC-1 and XD-16 kit?

[WildCards]

Ben, my Dad has been talking about upping the power of his VR4 slightly while trying to achieve better consumption. I've been trying to steer him towards a Unichip, mainly because it's setup and forget abilities and neither of us have any particular interest in DIY'ing something like this.

Would either of the MAP 1 or 2's be able to satisfy this? and do you offer a complete installation package so we don't have to get our hands dirty?

If you don't, would any of the other CVR4ers be able to fit this for a fistful of beer tokens?

[Paul C]

does emange having setting to remove the maf?

[Wodjno]

does emange having setting to remove the maf?

EMU does ....

[Paul C]

EMU does ....
is there an advantage of paying over 500 pound for mapecu 2 instead of emu if they have similar properties.

[Wodjno]

is there an advantage of paying over 500 pound for mapecu 2 instead of emu if they have similar properties.

Sorry but i don't know enough about the Map ECU to comment :speechles

[bernmc]

The UK price for MAP ECU2 is pretty scary - $695 would be ok if you could get the thing without customs and VAT. Pity - looks like a good unit.

[mpau009]

Can i ask why a lot of those in this thread seem to be leaning towards the MAP instead of the Emanage ultimate. I have been day dreaming about playing around with the ultimate at some point this year for a while now, and it certainly seems a cheaper option than the MAP II from what iv heard. Although i had only really been looking at the original MAP Ecu's until now.

Is it a tunability thing, a simplicity thing, or what?

I keep seeing the Ultimate brand new for $1000NZD on trademe, and if i had the cash spare i think i would go for it.

Could someone please post up a basic vs type comparison of the similarities and differences:iloveyou:

I already have electronic boost control, but it sounds like they both are capable of that as well?

Are there any real major differences to consider relative to price? Like datalogging capacity etc

If someone could clear this up for me it would be great, cause the more i read, the more my head hurts:baby:

[mpau009]

Okay so the MAPII is about 10% more expensive in NZ, so not much of a difference, now i really don't know what to make of it..

http://www.japaneseperformanceparts.com/the-mapecu2-manifold-absolute-pressure-electronic-control-unit-p-4408.html

$1119 vz $1000:thinking:

[Paul C]

Okay so the MAPII is about 10% more expensive in NZ, so not much of a difference, now i really don't know what to make of it..

http://www.japaneseperformanceparts.com/the-mapecu2-manifold-absolute-pressure-electronic-control-unit-p-4408.html

$1119 vz $1000:thinking:

interesting that it can be switched on the fly. ie could have sports mode and eco mode for better fuel consumption

[Wodjno]

interesting that it can be switched on the fly. ie could have sports mode and eco mode for better fuel consumption

Does it have an External switch for this ?? :thinking:

You can switch between as many Maps as you want with an EMB or EMU but it would have to be via a Laptop on EMU(Or via a Profec E-01 on the EMB)

[Paul C]

Does it have an External switch for this ?? :thinking:

You can switch between as many Maps as you want with an EMB or EMU but it would have to be via a Laptop on EMU(Or via a Profec E-01 on the EMB)

can this be done 'on the fly'?i would rather have the option to drive in eco mode and then when required be able to switch to a sports mode

[Wodjno]

can this be done 'on the fly'?i would rather have the option to drive in eco mode and then when required be able to switch to a sports mode

I can't see why not ? But it would not be advisable to do this Willy Nilly.. Meaning while at WOT.. I have tuned my EMU while on the fly, but i am always just cruising at a steady pace when making the alteration :thinking:

[mpau009]

Hmmm, it would be handy to change maps quickly, but would the factory ecu like that, or would it not know the difference?

Also, if you can't get a good enough group deal on the MAPII in the UK, we / i might as well buy them here, and post them over, cause $1119 is only like 380/390 odd pounds i think.:thinking: not 695 anyway

I think you can do that as 'gifts' for my friends?

[Eurospec]

Ben, my Dad has been talking about upping the power of his VR4 slightly while trying to achieve better consumption. I've been trying to steer him towards a Unichip, mainly because it's setup and forget abilities and neither of us have any particular interest in DIY'ing something like this.

Would either of the MAP 1 or 2's be able to satisfy this? and do you offer a complete installation package so we don't have to get our hands dirty?

If you don't, would any of the other CVR4ers be able to fit this for a fistful of beer tokens?

Yep, most people fit and forget their map ecu and never touch it once its mapped. Others are more hands on and like to keep adjusting it. There is no need to, its not like the old ARCII unts where you had to adjust it because its a cold day!

We supply, fit and tune these, or any combination of. I can also point you in the direction of other garages who can also fit them and set them up.

As an official importer we hold stock of units and we are the first line back up for them. That said the 2nd gen unit is still in testing. It kicks ass by the way!

By the way, if you buy 2nd gen units in NZ for £380, and lets say £20 for shipping, then if you have to pay for duty and VAT, the landed price will be £517, assuming you dont have to pay any handling charges etc.

As soon as i have a group buy structure for you guys i will let you know.

Cheers,

Ben.

[Axeboy]

Interested...

But I was intending going for fitting an emanage ultimate as my mates garage supply, fit & tune them...

[mpau009]

By the way, if you buy 2nd gen units in NZ for £380, and lets say £20 for shipping, then if you have to pay for duty and VAT, the landed price will be £517, assuming you dont have to pay any handling charges etc.
Ben.

Ah well, at least the UK boys have got the official importer on their side. I was thinking of dodging the taxes:pimp2:

Why are they cheaper over here? usually its the other way round:thinking:

Also Ben do you know who to talk to in NZ to avoid paying full retail? It could always be a bit cheaper:afro:

[bernmc]

Why are they cheaper over here? usually its the other way round:thinking:

'cos they're manufactured in NZ...?

Ben runs a legit business, and is the official UK distributer in the UK so he can't really try to dodge customs and taxes if he wants to stay in business for more than a couple of months...!

The prices we are getting in the group buy are pretty good - if we manage to find 10, it'll be £160 off the normal price of the MAP ECU2... :o

Bring it on!

[bradc]

As bern said, they are manufactured om NZ, so they should be cheaper here :)

[psbarham]

just out of curiosity (don't tell cat i asked this ok :thinking: ) what sort of gains would one of the above reap on a V6 N/A ???

[mpau009]

As bern said, they are manufactured om NZ, so they should be cheaper here :)

Really? i learn something everyday, ..but is made in NZ a good thing or not:thinking::scholar:

The more i read about this MAP2 the more i like it though, one thing i am confused about though is the wideband thing, can you just buy the sensor
(something like this) http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Car-parts-accessories/Performance/Electronics/auction-86713388.htm
and log it through the MAPECU on the laptop, or does it need to be done seperately

[Wodjno]

just out of curiosity (don't tell cat i asked this ok :thinking: ) what sort of gains would one of the above reap on a V6 N/A ???

It took 55 posts to get to this question :speechles

[psbarham]

It took 55 posts to get to this question :speechles
yeh because you lot that need to compensate for something :thinking: wern't thinking or talking about real mens cars

[valmes]

On EMU there are four dip switches that you can use to switch between different fuel and ignition maps without connecting your Laptot to EMU, aka "on the fly". ;)

I haven't touched my EMU for a long time... it just works. :) Dunno anything about the new MAPII, but it looks like a strong unit too.

[Wodjno]

On EMU there are four dip switches that you can use to switch between different fuel and ignition maps without connecting your Laptot to EMU, aka "on the fly". ;)

I haven't touched my EMU for a long time... it just works. :) Dunno anything about the new MAPII, but it looks like a strong unit too.

Cracking Info Val :pimp2:

Am i right in thinking you are using your EMU for traction control as well :speechles

[valmes]

Cracking Info Val :pimp2:

Am i right in thinking you are using your EMU for traction control as well :speechles

Did you mean "Launch control"? :) Yes.

I only have to apply throttle at more than 90% (I just floor it), while standing at the light, it (LC) kicks in. Car starts building boost and revs at 5500 rpm... :) (at least that's the LC RPM I left in there few month ago... ), than I just take my foot off the clutch pedal and off we go!!!
Everybody else forget, "what the hell were they waiting for?" and keep sitting at the green light thinking "Whoha... what the hell was that all about????"... Yeah... I actually feel I am an idiot too... :inquisiti