Autobox made of cheese? [Archive]

RugbyPete

07-02-2007, 10:39 AM

Has anyone got any advice for a new Galant owner with an auto box. I'm heaqring all sort of stories of the autobox lasting only 30k??

I'm going to be getting the autobox oil change every other oil change, and not boot it around at any time.... maybe once a year... but apart from that I can't think of any backup plan other than a spare empty credit card int he glovebox for the inevitable!!!

Did Mitsu never address this problem, or just replace them under warranty until the warranty's ran out?? Mines already had one box by the previous owner, coming upto 100k im guessing hes not keen on keeping it out of warranty!!

Nick Mann

07-02-2007, 10:55 AM

Hello and welcome! Firstly, the autobox is not a bad unit. It sounds like you have been given scare stories rather than fact! Yes, boxes fail, but not regularly!! Most failures are due to poor maintenance or incorrect spec oil.

So, the two failures I have heard of most in the V6 can be covered in the following two paragraphs:

It is advisable to flush the oil in the box when it's changed. (We have an articles section in the members area which shows the flush procedure.) Many places only dump the sump and re-fill, which is only half of the oil in the box. Also use an oil that is suitable. I think the only oil that meets Mitsubishis Diamond III spec apart from Mitsy oil is Amsoil. We have a discount with them in the members area, plus you will find a member on these forums with the username Amsoil! Several members including myself have used Amsoil in the gearbox, and would heartily recommend it. Also note that Dexron III whilst close to Diamond III is not quite the same. The friction properties are close enough so it will appear to work for a good while, but far enough out so your clutch packs will slowly munch themselves. You will end up with jerky gearchanges and shudder when the box tries to lock up in high gear.

The torque converter and the input shaft splines can sometimes damage themselves. If this happens both sides need to be renewed. Often only one set of splines is renewed, which leads to a similar failure just down the road.

Hope that info is useful, and also hope that some people finding a 'weak point' on the car don't put you off! Remember that Mitsy's are amongst the most reliable cars around!!

RugbyPete

07-02-2007, 11:06 AM

Well out of all the forums, thats the best news so far... I'm liking this forum already

Thanks for the info, I'm in no way put off by the car, just a bit scared by the regular users. I figured someone must have a more accurate answer/solution.

I'm not a mechanic by any means, but do my own oil changes etc., who would you recommend I go see for this work, bearing in mind the previous owner had a Mitsubishi dealer/garage do all previous services, I imagine not with Amsoil, or is it fairly easy to do myself? At what duration?

As for the shaft splines, would a Mitsu garage identify this easily, or just go "You need a new box mate, £1500 please"

I like Amsoil, always have. As I will use their oil in my engine, what would you recommend for a UK user? Its -5 at the moment and pretty much always cold and wet here, they do a European spec 5w/40 and a 10w/40, would these be best?

Nick Mann

07-02-2007, 11:14 AM

We have guides for most service items in the members area - all done ourselves, taking photos whilst we do the job.

Alternatively, search the site for WRD (I think you can find them on the mini-sites section) as they are developing quite a reputation for themselves, servicing and fixing members galants. They are based in Stoke, but people travel from Devon and Scotland to pay them for their expertise!! The money saved on the servicing often pays for a lot more than the petrol to go and see them.

The V6 has suggested service intervals of 9000 miles, the VR4 4500. A couple of members are trying Amsoil for longer distances, having the oil independantly checked as they go. Things are looking good so far!! I can't tell you how often the V6 should have it's ATF changed, but I would suggest a full flush with Amsoil and then find out if there is a similar check kit? I'm not sure if this is being done yet or not...

Is your username a hint at where you live or your occupation?

RugbyPete

07-02-2007, 11:33 AM

Physician

07-02-2007, 11:41 AM

Its where I live, J1 of the M6 :)

Thanks for all the help, I'm gonna enjoy maintaining my Galant Im sure. I'll take a better look around the site, the 108k service will be up soon, at a garage this is £500-700 so I'm ging to need as many contacts as possible!

Well, you have someone right on your doorstep who owns a Galant VR4 and has a bodyshop in Rugby. He and his wife are extremely knowledgeable about Galants.

As Nick mentioned - find WRD Motorsport advert on the site and give them a ring and they will quote you for a service. They are absolutely brilliant and look after your car as if it was their own.:happy:

PS: And I'm just up the road in Leicester

RugbyPete

07-02-2007, 11:53 AM

Ah brilliant, sounds like I've stumbled on a great forum, I will definately be giving them a ring, there are too many cowboys in my area, been stung before too many times. Since a great place in Leamington shut down, I don't have any garage in the area I can trust.

Roadrunner

07-02-2007, 01:28 PM

I'm going to be getting the autobox oil change every other oil change
That's not required. You'd be changing the ATF every 9k miles! Standard recommendation is to change the ATF every 24k miles or thereabouts, but, with Amsoil synthetic ATF in the box, I think you'd get more mileage than that. Much more important is to keep the ATF at the absolutely correct level - too low and the changes can be notchy, too high and you risk blowing the torque converter seal.

As others have said, regular maintenance is the key to reliability with these cars. I'm on my second VR-4 - first had done around 120k miles when I sold it, current one is on 84k miles. The torque converter seal was done on my previous car at 15k miles(!) before I bought it, never had any problem with the current one. Been using Amsoil ATF for the past 20k miles or so with no issues at all. I would recommend upgrading the ATF cooler though, the standard one really isn't up to the job.

Cheers,
Brian

I-S

07-02-2007, 01:37 PM

Just a couple of things to add...

Even though your car is not a VR4, the membership fee is very well worth paying. It's saved me hundreds of pounds (if not thousands by now). If you're intending on using Amsoil, the club member's discount will quickly start to pay your membership fee.

On the autobox... Mitsubishi dealers themselves tend not to use the correct ATF, in addition to their total lack of ability to change the fluid properly. It is these things that cause autobox problems rather than something inherent to the 'box itself. Mine has covered 111600 miles and is just fine.

Welcome.

Spirit

07-02-2007, 01:42 PM

Just to add, from someone who abuses his on track, that I have had no problems really either.

My first VR4 had the torque converter seal replaced as soon as I bought it, but since then no issues with either car......and that includes track abuse.

I do, however, replace my ATF every three oil changes or so - so roughly 8k to 10k miles. That's just me being anal more than anything.

RugbyPete

07-02-2007, 02:04 PM

What oil rating do should I use on the galant?

Standard 10w/30 or the euro 10w/40? is 5w too thin?

I-S

07-02-2007, 02:23 PM

I've found that my plain vanilla 2.0 (4cyl) is happiest on 5W30, certainly in the winter months. 10W doesn't give good cold-start performance, so it's tappy for a couple of minutes until the engine starts to warm up. In this country it never really gets hot enough, certainly if you're not going on track, for the difference between 30 and 40 to be significant, especially with the film-strength performance of class 4 and 5 synthetic oils (eg amsoil) at high temperature.

In summary, I'd look at 5W30 and 5W40 (second choice).

RugbyPete

09-02-2007, 11:32 AM

Got the cars service costs today, its autobox change cost a shade over £1k, really keen not to let this happen again. Asked WRD for a quote to flush and drain, I'm a fair weather mechanic!

I-S

09-02-2007, 11:42 AM

WRD will do it right with the right fluid at a sensible price.

White Lightning

09-02-2007, 03:23 PM

We changed the ATF in mine when we did the engine swap. The stuff that came out was rather black (which I was surprised about as it looked quite red on the dipstick). We put Amsoil ATF in and since then the changes have been very smooth so I am very pleased :baby:

I am using the the Amsoil 0w30 in my engine at the moment (link is below). I spent a couple of weeks deciding what oil to use after my original engine expired and decided this was the best option. Mine does a lot of short journeys to and from work and therefore is often running cold therefore I wanted a high quality, thin oil that was up to the job. Some think that this could be too thin and it may be that the engine will be quieter with a thicker oil (its not too bad now) but I was not convinced it would protect the engine as good when cold.

http://www.performanceoilsltd.co.uk/0w-30(2000).html

RugbyPete

13-02-2007, 04:35 PM

Where can I buy Mitsubishi Diamond III ATF from?
I figure if I'm not using Dexron I wont run into problems, especially as I'd religiously change it every 24k

Nick Mann

13-02-2007, 06:17 PM

And there, my friend, is the problem.

There was some diamond III on ebay a while ago. IIRC it was about the same price as amsoil. If you are unconvinced about using amsoil, the easiest way after that is to use dexron III with a friction modifier. The one you need is Lubeguard Black. Search these forums on it and you should find a bit more info.

I-S

13-02-2007, 07:17 PM

Pete - this is exactly what lead us to Amsoil in the first place. SPIII is so hard to get that even mitsubishi dealers tend not to use it. Amsoil is the only ATF that is easily available that EXPLICITY states SPIII compatibility. This is why Amsoil offer us a special deal on ATF (that goes a little beyond the standard club discount).

By the time you've paid the hefty sum for lubeguard friction modifiers then you might as well have bought Amsoil, which will last longer, warm up quicker and run cooler.

Please note that the one person who did run DIII + Lubeguard changed over to Amsoil and would not go back.

If you can't afford to do it right, can you afford to do it again?

mattpage

13-02-2007, 07:41 PM

I've recently changed the fluids to Amsoil (auto box and engine).
I can definatly recommend the stuff. The box is much smoother now.
Dom (amsoil distributor) is also a top bloke, his customer service is excellent.

Nick Mann

13-02-2007, 07:54 PM

Please note that the one person who did run DIII + Lubeguard changed over to Amsoil and would not go back.

I resemble that remark! But I think you were talking about someone else? So two votes to zero in the amsoil vs lubeguard death-match!! /pan

Kieran

13-02-2007, 08:00 PM

Please note that the one person who did run DIII + Lubeguard changed over to Amsoil and would not go back.

Indeed. Ariadne just wasn't quite right with Dexron and a friction modifier additive.... And once you factor in the cost of the modifier, you're at amsoil prices anyway. For sure, the initial outlay on Amsoil does sting - but then, my gearbox mangled Dexron III in 8,000 miles!:speechles

I-S

13-02-2007, 08:23 PM

Sorry Nick, didn't realise you'd run it as well. I was referring to the K-meister.

RugbyPete

14-02-2007, 09:32 AM

That's not required. You'd be changing the ATF every 9k miles! Standard recommendation is to change the ATF every 24k miles or thereabouts, but, with Amsoil synthetic ATF in the box, I think you'd get more mileage than that. Much more important is to keep the ATF at the absolutely correct level - too low and the changes can be notchy, too high and you risk blowing the torque converter seal.

As others have said, regular maintenance is the key to reliability with these cars. I'm on my second VR-4 - first had done around 120k miles when I sold it, current one is on 84k miles. The torque converter seal was done on my previous car at 15k miles(!) before I bought it, never had any problem with the current one. Been using Amsoil ATF for the past 20k miles or so with no issues at all. I would recommend upgrading the ATF cooler though, the standard one really isn't up to the job.

Cheers,
Brian

And from this post http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22235
it seems I'm getting conflicting information.

"Originally Posted by RugbyPeteAh. So its £108 regardless. Jeepers....

If I'm doing it every 25k, will mitsubishis own oil not do?

If you're using Mitsis stuff, I think most people here would recommend you do it every 4500 miles - these boxes are VERY fussy. Amsoil will last longer - see my reply to your other thread.

A simple torque convertor seal replacement is going to cost you upwards of £600, never mind a full gearbox rebuild. Don't skimp on the ATF."

So, Amsoil ATF lasts 24k...
Mitsubishi Diamond III lasts 4500 miles? How can they get away with that?? I've not seen any Mitsubishi litrature telling us to come in cos their autobox and oil is rubbish

I'm going to HAVE to go Amsoil to keep it cost effective, but imagine if Amsoil didn't exist???

Kieran

14-02-2007, 09:41 AM

I think to be fair that Bern's more on about the VR-4 gearbox when talking about fluid life there - the V6 doesn't have the same power and bulk to deal with, so the fluid would probably last longer. That said though, I would say that the ATF change interval on, well most cars really is far too long. In the USA, ATF changes seem to be just a part of normal lubrication services, rather than an event in a 'Major' service as seems to be the case in the UK.

Certainly in the Galant's case I'd be thinking once a year or every 10~12k as a sensible minimum, irrespective of model, with regular checks to ensure that the level and condition are within spec - paticularly if the car is used 'enthusiastically'...:scholar:

william

14-02-2007, 10:48 AM

Pete, I think you need to calm down a bit! The tiptronic really is not that bad. Have a look at my gallery and see what I towed for 3 years with my VR4 tiptronic. The box did overheat going up mountainpasses untill I fitted a transcooler and I only changed the oil once in the 3 years I owned the car. The oilchange was done at the auto box workshop down the road from me and I have no idea what oil they put in. It was still changing smoothly when I traded it in on a manual. The car was also fitted with a manual boost controller which frequently caused the fuel cut out to trouble me, so the box really worked hard. So, treat your car reasonably and it should give you many years of trouble free motoring!

RugbyPete

14-02-2007, 12:07 PM

I'm just very concerned, I can't afford for the tranny to give up and leave me with a £1000 bill, so I'm really keen to investigate this issue to the full, and if possible investigate cost effective methods of fluid changes.

Looks like £108 is gonna be the cheapest option for me, I'm going to bite the bullet and go down that route, as I can't see any other way of protecting my tranny other than Amsoil, and it was probably last done at 54k, 43k ago, and at a Toyota Garage so god knows what they used..

White Lightning

14-02-2007, 12:56 PM

Looks like £108 is gonna be the cheapest option for me, I'm going to bite the bullet and go down that route, as I can't see any other way of protecting my tranny other than Amsoil, and it was probably last done at 54k, 43k ago, and at a Toyota Garage so god knows what they used..

Good decision ... we knew you'd get there in the end :happy:

Roadrunner

14-02-2007, 02:08 PM

And from this post http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22235
it seems I'm getting conflicting information.

"Originally Posted by RugbyPeteAh. So its £108 regardless. Jeepers....

If I'm doing it every 25k, will mitsubishis own oil not do?

If you're using Mitsis stuff, I think most people here would recommend you do it every 4500 miles - these boxes are VERY fussy. Amsoil will last longer - see my reply to your other thread.

A simple torque convertor seal replacement is going to cost you upwards of £600, never mind a full gearbox rebuild. Don't skimp on the ATF."

So, Amsoil ATF lasts 24k...
Mitsubishi Diamond III lasts 4500 miles? How can they get away with that?? I've not seen any Mitsubishi litrature telling us to come in cos their autobox and oil is rubbish

I'm going to HAVE to go Amsoil to keep it cost effective, but imagine if Amsoil didn't exist???
Hi Pete,

I'm afraid there's some real drivel being spouted here. There's no way the ATF needs to be changed every 4.5k miles, or even 9k miles. As I've said, I've now run 2 VR-4s to 120k miles and 84k miles respectively.

I changed the ATF on the first one at 45k miles (Mitsi Diaqueen III), 72k miles (Castrol TQ SPIII - OK, a mistake ;) ) and again at 90k miles (Mitsi Diaqueen III) and never had any problems with the box. The Castrol wasn't best suited to the box so I was happy to take the advice of Kieran to change it again. I changed the ATF on my current car at 45k miles (Amsoil Synthetic) and will change it again at 90k miles for Amsoil again. Both cars were tracked on occasion, doing Knockhill, Elvington, Nurburgring and Donington with daily, spirited ;) driving, all with no issues.

As I've said before, keep the fluid at the correct level and fit a better cooler and you won't have a problem. The box on my current car is working really well and it's 40k miles since the fluid was last changed. :)

It's not just the ATF either. Some will be changing their AYC fluid every 4.5k miles too. More money than sense ... :P

Cheers,
Brian

Kieran

14-02-2007, 02:28 PM

It's not just the ATF either. Some will be changing their AYC fluid every 4.5k miles too. More money than sense ... :P

To be fair, Brian is right, though there's no way I'll leave ATF, even Amsoil in a box for 40K miles. I've seen with my VR-4 and my GLS that with a stock transmission cooler, they will toast their fluid in less than 10k miles. It's happened to me twice (once with the GLS, once with Ariadne). However I do agree that with an upgraded cooler (one that's up to the job unlike the OEM unit) that the ATF will have a much easier life.

As for AYC, each to their own but seeing as there's no cooling or filtration for the AYC fluid or clutchpacks , so I'd still advocate sticking to the recommended interval (you think 4.5k miles is bad, the Japanese interval is even less!) - £50 gets enough ATF to do several AYC changes - versus god-knows-what for a new AYC diff! /help

RugbyPete

14-02-2007, 02:47 PM

AYC on FWD?

Roadrunner

14-02-2007, 02:54 PM

As for AYC, each to their own but seeing as there's no cooling or filtration for the AYC fluid or clutchpacks , so I'd still advocate sticking to the recommended interval (you think 4.5k miles is bad, the Japanese interval is even less!) - £50 gets enough ATF to do several AYC changes - versus god-knows-what for a new AYC diff! /help
You'll soon know when the AYC fluid gives up because (so I'm told) the rear diff clutches will screech and groan! The intervals for changing the AYC fluid were originally set by Mitsubishi for their Evo range, believing that everyone would rag the nuts off their cars. Given that VR-4s tend not to get ragged as much, or as badly, the AYC fluid will last longer. I change mine every 27k miles :p and have never had a problem in over 200,000 miles of VR-4 motoring :D

Roadrunner

14-02-2007, 02:55 PM

AYC on FWD?
Sorry, Pete, just a general comment on fluid changing, not specific to your car ... :)

RugbyPete

14-02-2007, 03:12 PM

I thought so... for a minute I thought they'd got that technology to work in a FWD car!

But then i remembered thats what diffs do without the electronics...

So then. where can I get another cooler from? Can I nick something from another car?

We used to put saab intercoolers in our 200sx for example

I-S

14-02-2007, 03:37 PM

Pete- Get your club membership. That reduced the price on ATF from 101.40 inc delivery to 85.50 inc delivery when I got mine some time ago. With that level of saving, as soon as you buy some amsoil engine oil also, you'll have saved more than the membership cost you.

If you're not tracking or towing or whatever then you do NOT need a larger ATF cooler. I've done 14000 miles since putting the Amsoil ATF in my car with the standard cooler and it's still bright red on the dipstick and working just fine. The VR4 is much more liable to munch the ATF than the GLS and V6. The lower running temperature of the Amsoil ATF, as well as it's improved high temperature stability gives you a double-whammy against needing one. The extra cost of the Amsoil fluid over any other fluid is miniscule in comparison to the cost of obtaining and fitting a larger ATF cooler.

Kieran

14-02-2007, 03:52 PM

You'll soon know when the AYC fluid gives up because (so I'm told) the rear diff clutches will screech and groan!

Yep - when the fluid gets so mucky it clogs the plates up this does happen. I hope never to have this scenario - So I'll carry on following the book and changing every 4.5k (needed or not!). I just couldn't leave it knowing that it would be technically 'overdue'... Me? fussy? Nah.../pan

RugbyPete

14-02-2007, 04:45 PM

So I'm now trying to get the best price on amsoil, what do you reckon to
Amsoil Torque-Drive Synthetic
Automatic Transmission Fluid ?

I-S

14-02-2007, 04:59 PM

This has been covered before. Torque-Drive (code: ATD) is NOT suitable. You want Synthetic Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid (code: ATF).

RugbyPete

15-02-2007, 10:33 AM

Are they talking cr*p?
http://www.mitsubishiforum.com/m_114966/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#115430

What discount do we get on Amsoil as a member then?

Nick Mann

15-02-2007, 11:03 AM

They probably aren't talking crap, but you don't have the equipment they think you have. I'm not sure of you gearbox code, but I would take a guess at F5A5. I'm sure someone will confirm. Your engine code is 6A13.

I also am not sure why ATF would ever need changing at every service. As others have said, put good stuff in and keep an eye on it. If you get worried, then send a drop off for analysis - IIRC the independant lab kit & analysis costs less than £20, so a lot cheaper than a fluid change!!

The discount is a minimum of 10%, but depends on exactly what and how much you buy.

Hope that helps!

Roadrunner

15-02-2007, 11:14 AM

Are they talking cr*p?
http://www.mitsubishiforum.com/m_114966/mpage_1/key_/tm.htm#115430

What discount do we get on Amsoil as a member then?
No, they're not talking cr*p, but you wouldn't expect a Mitsubishi dealership to recommend anything other than their own products, would you? Given that the USA also has better legislation for returning duff cars to the manufacturer, I can also understand why owners would err on the safe side and go with the dealer recommendations.

Kieran

15-02-2007, 11:14 AM

They probably aren't talking crap, but you don't have the equipment they think you have. I'm not sure of you gearbox code, but I would take a guess at F5A5. I'm sure someone will confirm. Your engine code is 6A13.Hope that helps!

Yeah, they're assuming you have a US Galant I think. Nick's given you the correct engine code. The gearbox code is the same for both UK FWD models - F4A42.

As for the advice of 'Manybrews'.... If he'd bother to look on a can of Amsoil ATF he'd see that it meets the ATF specifications he's harping on about..../pan /pan /pan

RugbyPete

15-02-2007, 12:08 PM

Ok. So as a conclusion then, is it safe to say we're all agreeing that if the right spec oil is used, be it Diaqueen III or amsoil ATF (NOTHING else, no castrol, dextron etc.), kept at the correct levels, with the stock cooler, changed at a max of 25k, not thrashed daily, the box should give a good life of service?

I-S

15-02-2007, 12:16 PM

111700 and counting, and that includes quite a few miles of knackered fluid.

How long is a piece of string? How long do you expect a car to last for? So far my galant has been by far the most reliable car in my family (and that is compared with a mitsubishi shogun, BMW 7 series, Nissan Silvia, Jag XJ12, etc). We've had no end of problems with the manual gearbox in the Shogun, but you never hear about how fragile they are, do you?

Quite simply, the reason that the mitsubishi autoboxes have a poor reputation in this country is that the dealers don't have a clue or the motivation to maintain them. Remember that if you need a new gearbox then the dealer profits a lot more than they do from a proper fluid change. Part of the problem in this country is that autos are not very common in mainstream brands so the dealers are also inexperienced with them (ie a merc dealership knows what to do with the autobox, a ford dealership doesn't).

My F4A42 shifts just fine with Amsoil... far better than it ever did after two different mitsubishi dealers looked at it!