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zentac
24-02-2007, 04:30 PM
If you haven't seen already CDFRacing has offered to make us a set of adjustable cam pulleys

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22332

Looking at the prices on the website I would guess they will be in the region of £150 - £200. Chris please correct me if Im wrong.

How many people would be interested price dependant of course.


1. zentac

chrisflorey
24-02-2007, 06:37 PM
Hi,


I will post a price as soon as I know.

Thankyou

bradc
24-02-2007, 10:42 PM
Me! Plus shipping to NZ of course

Wodjno
24-02-2007, 10:48 PM
Not just for me :thinking:

But to anyone else out there, that isn't completely Up to Speed on "ADJUSTABLE CAM GEARS"

But what "EXACTLY" will be all the benefits of having these :D

zentac
25-02-2007, 12:39 AM
They allow you to adjust the cam timing, similar to putting new cams in but to a much lesser degree. These with new cams give you a greater variable range.

Wodjno
25-02-2007, 01:05 AM
They allow you to adjust the cam timing, similar to putting new cams in but to a much lesser degree. These with new cams give you a greater variable range.

Hey !!

I could of read that anywhere and is nothing that i didn't already know :thinking:

And doesn't explain in Basic terms exactly what they do !!

What are the benefits of "NEW CAMS" ??? New as in shiny ?? New as in more expensive ?? If i put a New Tyre on my car !! It doesn't mean it makes my car go any faster !!

But as i already asked.. !!!

What "EXACTLY" are the benefits of having these ??

Talking in terms of Power increase of the engine ?? And how ?? And will it benefit a Standard engine ?? And how much more will it benefit a Modded engine over a Standard engine ?? :D

bradc
25-02-2007, 06:40 AM
new cams - lets you adjust the time that the valves are open and by how much they open up by.

adjustable cam gears will let you adjust when the cams are open, and they will give you a little bit more power.

pitslayer
25-02-2007, 09:29 AM
so its like a well marketed way of smashing your pistons on your valves?

bradc
25-02-2007, 10:08 AM
it's a well marketed way of getting your valves as close as possible to hitting your pistons ;)

Remember though that when they are most open the piston won't be at top dead centre anyway, it will be halfway through it's stroke

zentac
26-02-2007, 07:38 PM
ok chris has come back with a price.

Quote for :
Cam pulley 20 - 40 pulleys (5-10) Kits In He30 ally.


£45.00 per pulley (Non adjustable )

£13 Stainless Adjustable insert

Hard Anodise £15 per Kit

Colour anodise £14 per kit

Lead time 2-3 weeks

Louis
26-02-2007, 08:21 PM
Hi,
Sorry for being dense, but am I right in saying that one hard anodised, adjustable pulley would be £73.

So £292 for 4

Does that include vat?, ta

bradc
26-02-2007, 08:58 PM
yeah what louis said^^^

chrisflorey
26-02-2007, 09:27 PM
Hi ,


The hard anodising is for all four pulleys .. as there would be no point for only having one done, also we don't anodise in house so this price include's postage to and from the anodisers

Prices are little more expensive than first thought as it is a non standard toothform and we will have to rent a cutter..

Chris

chrisflorey
26-02-2007, 09:27 PM
Price include's vat

Louis
27-02-2007, 12:04 AM
Cool, so, going for all the options, 4 x pulleys (£45), + 4 x stainless adjustable inserts(£13), + all four hard anodised(£15), + all four colour anodised(£15), = £262.

If no colour anodising, are they light or dark metal? (doesn't matter really, but just wondering,), ta

bradc
27-02-2007, 01:25 AM
anodising is just putting something on the surface isn't it? So it isn't really needed at all imho.

zentac
27-02-2007, 03:39 PM
I will take a adjustable set in blue.

Louis
27-02-2007, 04:39 PM
I thought that hard anodising was hardening the metal

White Lightning
27-02-2007, 04:51 PM
Glenn - when I did the cam timing on my 620ti I found that it was impossible to get all of the timing marks absolutely spot on and in the end had to settle on one pulley being a quarter of a tooth out. When Andy and I did it on the VR-4 engine we managed to get them pretty spot on but I seem to remember one cam was very, very slightly out. If you had adjustable pulleys you would be able to adjust them so that they were absolutely perfect. Also, as others have said, you can also advance or retard the cam timing if you were getting the car setup on a rolling road - so that could equate to more power.

Just my 2p's worth ...

stuartturbo
27-02-2007, 09:41 PM
I thought that hard anodising was hardening the metal
It is
Anodising is a very fine layer of "rust"
When you Anodise something you are oxidising the surface
It is to increase corrosion resistance, increase wear resistance, allow dyeing ( most important. Anodization changes the the surface on a microscopic/crystal structure

zentac
01-03-2007, 11:46 AM
so were up to 2 sets now..... no one else intersted?

Louis
01-03-2007, 04:39 PM
I am interested, and I am watching with interest, BUT, I have just exploded my rear diff and I am trying to sort it out as cost effectively as poss. Depending on how much the diff scenario costs will affect my interest at the mo. (how interestingly interesting!)

ralliart-type-s
02-03-2007, 08:54 PM
So, is that £262 for 4 adj cam gears in colour of choice?? (Thinks as sees front bearings getting financially further away)./juggle

zentac
08-03-2007, 04:55 PM
Looks like the FTO ones will use the same tooling, so lets get the ball rolling

Name...........Adjustable.....Hardened......Colour
1. RichardB...Y....................Y................. ...N

bradc
08-03-2007, 10:22 PM
Brad yes to adjustable and hardened, not worried about the colour

Twpsin
09-03-2007, 05:15 PM
Looks like the FTO ones will use the same tooling, so lets get the ball rolling

Name...........Adjustable.....Hardened......Colour
1. RichardB...Y....................Y................. ...N

Put me down for a set in Red please

zentac
09-03-2007, 07:36 PM
So were up to three sets so far

Name...........Adjustable.....Hardened......Colour
1. RichardB...Y....................Y................. ....N
2. bradc.......Y....................Y................ .....N
3. Twpsin.....Y....................Y................. ....Red

Wodjno
09-03-2007, 07:41 PM
So were up to three sets so far

Name...........Adjustable.....Hardened......Colour
1. RichardB...Y....................Y................. ....N
2. bradc.......Y....................Y................ .....N
3. Twpsin.....Y....................Y................. ....Red
4. WODJNO...Y....................Y................... ..BLUE


This club is gonna be the death of me :inquisiti

But go on then :scholar:

zentac
13-03-2007, 11:40 AM
Come on guys we need a total of 10 (between FTO and VR4) and were currently at 6.

Anyone else interested?

zentac
16-03-2007, 03:13 PM
one more and we can place the first order.... someone else must want a set?

Louis
16-03-2007, 04:29 PM
I will get back to you as soon as poss, I will be sorting diff this week and will know how much I can spend. These are definitely a good buy, I have used adjustable cam gears on other cars, and for tuning and adjusting valve timing they are a must, so come on folks join in!, cheers Louis

zentac
26-03-2007, 07:13 AM
If no one else is interested then we may have to can this.

Mark 4
27-03-2007, 09:47 PM
I'm up for it.
Had adjustable cams on a bike some years ago. Was a Z900 engine with Yoshimura racing internals, ported head, welded crank etc. Chassis was Egli Bonneville - hell of a bike for its day. Anyway after owning it for a couple of years I rebuilt the engine and found that the cams had not been set up properly so I dialled them in and it made a hell of a difference when I got it back on the road.

zentac
27-03-2007, 10:08 PM
Nice one thats the 5 we need....
Name...........Adjustable.....Hardened......Colour
1. RichardB...Y....................Y................. ....N
2. bradc.......Y....................Y................ .....N
3. Twpsin.....Y....................Y................. ....Red
4. WODJNO...Y....................Y................... ..BLUE
5. Mark 4.....Y.....................?..................... ?

If everyone else is still in Im going to have to ask for a deposit, then when the cams are ready I will ask for the balance and the cams will be shipped direct to you.

Twpsin
27-03-2007, 10:25 PM
Nice one thats the 5 we need....
Name...........Adjustable.....Hardened......Colour
1. RichardB...Y....................Y................. ....N
2. bradc.......Y....................Y................ .....N
3. Twpsin.....Y....................Y................. ....Red
4. WODJNO...Y....................Y................... ..BLUE
5. Mark 4.....Y.....................?..................... ?

If everyone else is still in Im going to have to ask for a deposit, then when the cams are ready I will ask for the balance and the cams will be shipped direct to you.

How much do you want as a deposit?

I will need to pay by paypal as I am currnetly in Canada so iy you send me the details I will sort out payment

bradc
28-03-2007, 12:43 AM
I'll just send you the money in one lot Richard, it's too difficult for me to send two payments

Mark 4
28-03-2007, 08:57 AM
Doh ! Sorry, I need adjustable, hardened, no colour.
Cheers
Mark.

chrisflorey
14-04-2007, 04:15 PM
Hi All ,


For all of you that have ordered the adjustable cam gears.

They are now all made and gearcut.

They will be going to the anodisers on Monday and will be down there for one week!

View a pic here...

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r19/cdfracing/100_3679.jpg


Thanks chris

Wodjno
14-04-2007, 04:19 PM
Hi All ,


For all of you that have ordered the adjustable cam gears.

They are now all made and gearcut.

They will be going to the anodisers on Monday and will be down there for one week!

View a pic here...

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r19/cdfracing/100_3679.jpg



Thanks chris

Yum Yum :pimp2:

zentac
14-04-2007, 05:12 PM
cheers chris they look sweet. whats the weight like compared to the originals?

chrisflorey
14-04-2007, 08:40 PM
I haven't had a chance to weigh them yet... they are lighter, I was going to arrange some lighting holes in them but by doing that it does weaken the pulley as they are only ally and may unbalance them - The main gain would be to get better timing on them by adjusting them,

zentac
02-05-2007, 10:41 AM
They are now finished so will be getting shipped out soon....

Mark 4
02-05-2007, 10:48 AM
Lookin good :happy: :2thumbsup

Goku
03-05-2007, 05:20 AM
Whats the shipping cost to NZ like ?

zentac
03-05-2007, 06:24 AM
the group buy has ended but I should be able to get you a set.

ralliart-type-s
11-05-2007, 03:24 PM
If any one has bought a set they don't think that will be used, let me know. My car needs the belt done and these would go on at the same time. Has anyone fitted them yet? any noticeable gains/improvements?

zentac
13-05-2007, 09:14 PM
If anyone wants another set please PM me and I will get a price for one offs.

Twpsin
04-08-2007, 05:32 PM
I ordered as set of cam pullys in the group buy and today when I gave them to Benn to fit during my cambelt replacement he pointed out that their are no timing marks or degrees of rotation on them. I was just wondering if all the pullys were the same or mine have just not been marked up

zentac
04-08-2007, 05:50 PM
I think mine were the same. Im not sure how the manufacturer could measure the degrees of timing as the originals didnt have any markings on.

Gowf
06-08-2007, 11:40 AM
The standard pulleys will not have any markings (other than a timing mark for TDC)on them as mitsubishi have designed the engine to run with a certain amount of valve overlap that they do not wish anyone to change hence the pulley is non adjustable. The whole point of changing to a vernier pulley is so that you can control the overlap and thus fine tune the timing for your particular engine. Normaly when you do get them they are either marked with the degrees of advance and retard on them or they supply you with a disc that does the same job. However, they do need some sort of timing mark on them so as you know where TDC is. With these i suppose you could measure them up with the standard ones and get a timing mark off the original, but its not going to be as easy as it sounds.

Twpsin
06-08-2007, 01:14 PM
Has anyone fitted the set they have got?

if so how did you go about it? just put the pullys together and try and line them up to get the timing marks and leave it at that without trying to add any adjustment as surgested above by Gowf

Eurospec
06-08-2007, 02:15 PM
You could do that to transfer the timing mark from one to the other (ie work on the basis that the orientation between the cut out for the roll pin in the end of the cam and the 'notched tooth' on the std wheel is fixed) But doing this means you have to set the centre adjustable bit 'somewhere' and you dont know where that is. You could line it by eye but i wouldnt fancy anyones chances of getting it spot on and consistant on 4 wheels. Its possible, but far from ideal.

Normally a vernier pulley will have a timing mark on one of the teeth and vernier pulley lines (hence why they are called vernier) so you can dial in the desired amount of advance/retard vs a known tdc position.

Cheers,

Ben.

Eagleton
24-08-2007, 02:59 PM
I´m in, if there will be shipping to Sweden?

DefeXion
24-08-2007, 10:54 PM
Sorry. I'm way late on the boat here, but if I had a st-r block that does an 8:1 compresison ratio. with a vr4 head from a 9:1 vr4 engine, would I end up with a little more space for opening the valves? Just a question i had after reading the first few posts.

bradc
24-08-2007, 10:59 PM
VR-4's are 8.5:1 and ST-R's are 9.0:1

DefeXion
26-08-2007, 10:25 PM
oh, crud. lol. duh. n/a's always have higher compression. the turbos do the compression in the vr4s so a lower piston compression means more air and fuel so bigger explosion. How ignorant of me,

So considering the different compression ratios, do you think bolting a vr4 head onto an str block will cause any problems with valve tap?

bradc
27-08-2007, 01:06 AM
I would contact David at RPW in Aussie. He has made a couple of 2.5l mivec DOHC N/A engines by combining the 2.5l block with the 6A12 mivec DOHC heads. He knows more about them than anyone else.

Mark 4
28-08-2008, 10:00 PM
Putting Wodj's engine into my car next week. Gonna do the cambelt first so thought I'd sling in the pulleys that I bought from Zentac. Only thing is I don't know the appropriate cam timings to set at. Can someone please let me know.

:afro:

Nutter_John
28-08-2008, 10:11 PM
if i remember the ones that Rich had made up can not be fitted without knowing the engine timing refernce points and a timing gauge wheel for each cam

Mark 4
28-08-2008, 10:13 PM
Got that John, still need the exact timings tho.

Nutter_John
28-08-2008, 10:15 PM
Yep then thats the problem no one knows the exact timings , also as the adjusters have no markings you can not be sure that your spot on with it

I think Rich mentioned something about sending them back to be marked

Mark 4
28-08-2008, 10:20 PM
They have been back. Now clearly marked (all four). Maybe Zentac will let us know what setting he is running.

peter thomson
28-08-2008, 10:26 PM
Section 11a in the Jap 6a13tt manual has info about cam settings I think

Oblivion
10-10-2012, 09:37 AM
Ok I know its an old thread but does anyone remember how they got on with the timing marks? Im trying to find some adjustable cam gears and this thread is the closest thing I can find.

swinks
10-10-2012, 10:07 AM
Im trying to find some adjustable cam gears and this thread is the closest thing I can find.
Got one made by them:
http://works-engineering.com/?product=3-cam-pulley
The only issue was wrongly marked timing mark on front exhaust gear, see thread (post #45):
http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?65406-Long-story-about-fitting-262-cams-dyno-and-lots-of-drama/page3
Otherwise good quality, but need to be checked before fitting.

zentac
10-10-2012, 12:24 PM
yes we sent them back and got then marked up have a chat with http://www.cdfracing.co.uk/ Im sure they can make some more, may need originals to copy again.

Oblivion
11-10-2012, 08:29 AM
Got one made by them:
http://works-engineering.com/?product=3-cam-pulley
The only issue was wrongly marked timing mark on front exhaust gear, see thread (post #45):
http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?65406-Long-story-about-fitting-262-cams-dyno-and-lots-of-drama/page3
Otherwise good quality, but need to be checked before fitting.

If you used the rear exhaust gear on the front would that solve the problem of the mark in the wrong position? Sorry if that sounds daft, I dont know much about cam gears! I imagine the adjustment marks are fine wherever they are too?


yes we sent them back and got then marked up have a chat with http://www.cdfracing.co.uk/ Im sure they can make some more, may need originals to copy again.

Thanks, hopefully they still have all the data on file somewhere which would make things a lot easier!

swinks
11-10-2012, 08:43 AM
If you used the rear exhaust gear on the front would that solve the problem of the mark in the wrong position? Sorry if that sounds daft, I dont know much about cam gears! I imagine the adjustment marks are fine wherever they are too?
Aaron, this couldn't be done. Front exhaust gear has rotor blade for cam position sensor.
By default, adjustment marks are also major timing one, i.e. 0 degree = stock timing mark, hence any misalign may be dangerous.
In that case timing was affected like a hell, approx. 25 degree.

Oblivion
11-10-2012, 09:10 AM
Ah ok I see. Once you have made the new timing mark like you did in the other thread, can you use the other marks for making adjustments only and will they remain accurate?

swinks
11-10-2012, 10:06 AM
Ah ok I see. Once you have made the new timing mark like you did in the other thread, can you use the other marks for making adjustments only and will they remain accurate?
Yes, it was only one gear pulley affected by wrongly put marks. Fortunately, overlap adjustment marks can be located anywhere, so I did another major mark as in mentioned thread which solved all problems.
Just trying to say, do not trust seller and always check all marks alignment with stock gears before fit.
Other than that, cam gears were really well made ;)

Oblivion
16-10-2012, 07:48 AM
Ive had a reply email from cfdracing:
"Hi Aaron

We can make them, but I am not sure if we still have the drawings. I will
check

Regards Chris

CDF Racing Ltd"

Looks like I'll have to wait and see if they find the drawings if I am to get them from there.

roryfromnz
16-10-2012, 11:04 PM
would be interested in finding cost of these Aaron!

Gowf
17-10-2012, 06:05 PM
Not wanting to sound like a dick here, but why cant you just get the stock pulleys slotted and graduated (marked)? Problem is then solved

veegeeta
17-10-2012, 10:14 PM
Interested in getting light weight cam gears too, Is there going to be a groupe buy ? If so put me down :thumbsup:

Oblivion
18-10-2012, 08:22 AM
Not wanting to sound like a dick here, but why cant you just get the stock pulleys slotted and graduated (marked)? Problem is then solved

I had no idea this was possible! Where would I look for someone that could do this?

Gowf
18-10-2012, 01:26 PM
I had no idea this was possible! Where would I look for someone that could do this?

Absolutely is! We do it on the FS cars that are using a Yamaha R6 engine. The regs require a 20mm restrictor so we change the inlet cam profiles and dial out a load of overlap. Rather than having new pulleys (sprockets in this case) made we just have them slotted where the locating pin is and then marked up. We had them done by a cam manufacturer, and I am actually in the process of getting a set of VR4 ones with the same.

scott.mohekey
18-10-2012, 10:17 PM
So, they'd be locked with the just stock center bolt?

Gowf
25-10-2012, 11:01 AM
So, they'd be locked with the just stock center bolt?

Yep same way most fords/citroens/peugeots are.