So, do you think 6a13TT can dive into 11s or even 10s? [Archive]

calum

06-03-2007, 12:53 PM

If you want to get in the tens in a street trim car you're looking at 650bhp, I reckon.

What sort of terminals are you getting just now? You need to be looking at about 130mph for a 10.9.

If you analyse your runs, where are you fastest? Launch, 60ft, 200ft, or terminal? Look at where the bottlenecks are and upgrade components that help with those areas.

What clutch are you running? I would reckon you'll be needing a fairly mental twin or triple plate setup.

I would also suggest a MOTEC fully programmable ECU, get rid of the MAF sensor and move to a 3bar MAP sensor, increase the size of all air carrying pipework from turbo to cylinder.

May also be a good idea to have the intake manifold and heads flowbenched and establish just what it's capable of as you may have an issue getting enough air in for that sort of power.

At that sort of power you also have to be thinking about diffs/ driveshafts, but I would be tempted to build it and see what breaks first.

Take a logical approach, measure and analyse what you have and improve those areas that need it.

Don't just assume that bolting bits on is going to give an improvement when you're at these sorts of levels - you may actually do more damage than good by changing something that's working/ capable.

Cheers,

Calum

zentac

06-03-2007, 01:52 PM

If your after forged internals contact NR Autosport http://www.nr-autosport.com they can supply them to you and should cost about £2500 (not sure on exact cost) There is a 8 weeks wait on them. Mine should be here in the next 2-3 weeks.

Eurospec

06-03-2007, 02:06 PM

Clutch is a good point.

You need a big clutch for serious 1/4 mile awd launching. A hard launch will make a huge difference to ET, as long as there is grip.

So far on 1/4's i have destroyed (in various states of tune)

A centreforce dual friction, an RPS max, an OS Giken twin plate, and a DXD F. I've eaten a flywheel every time too, even though i have been using either the Findanza or RPS which both have removable plates.

The DXD F was rated to 780 ft lbs torque- now i dont have that much, maybe 5 or 600, but it ate it on its first hard launch.

Now i run an RPS carbon-carbon twin, which i love!

I suspect that there will be something drive train related which will bite te bullet first. Evo's are always smashing the drive bolts in the xfr box, and then the rear AYC diffs give up.

Its gonna be a hell of a ride, but i recon its doable in the mid 11's.

Cheers,

Ben.

zentac

06-03-2007, 03:33 PM

Jeff Lucious Formula predicts 580bhp at the fly is required to run an 11.46
Patrick Hale's formula predicts 410bhp at the fly to run an 11.49
And Geoffery Fox Predicts 515bhp to run an 11.46

On average, by the three methods its 500bhp in round numbers. You gotta be close to that arent you val?

Good on you for stepping up to the plate and having a go!

Cheers,

Ben.

How do those forumla's translate for a FWD ?

Wodjno

06-03-2007, 03:46 PM

How do those forumla's translate for a FWD ?

Jeff Lucius http://www.stealth316.com/2-calc-hp-et-mph.htm

valmes

06-03-2007, 04:24 PM

Thanks for input guys!

a) I've got 2 weeks to come up with a plan... (I've got a simple one right now, but it kinda sucks :) )
b) I've got less than 4 month to be done with the plan I came up with...
c) and I've got to get rid of that "I bet I WILL" habit... it's killing my pockets...

Of course I would want to build a fast, reliable, everyday 11 seconds monster and I am 100% confident that it could be done with the right turbos, forged internals and beefed up drivetrain, but have I got the time??!!??

I ran 12,7 on 1.05 bars of boost on street tires in a full weight 1500 kgs car (everything else is listed in my sig up the page, in my first post) on a local 98 oсtane fuel (It could be anywhere from 91 to 98 in UK terms).
That should put my engine in 380-420 bhp spot? Somewhere around there anyway...

However, I only have to run 1(!) time lower than 11,5 to win the bet, so I am basically prepared to kill an engine with a good nitrous shot (100-150HP). Hell with it! I will use VP116 and most effective boost levels my turbos can pump out (I hope they can do it at 1,2-1,4 bars to red line... never had a chance to get that high, since winter came in when I was ready to give it a shot). I am more worried about the drive train... C&C clutch and 4 ET Drags on that engine will probably kill the gearbox pretty quickly... Will have to strip down the car to bare bones... like Dave did (btw how much did it save you in weight?)...

I don't like that plan either, but at least I am sure it can be done in less than 4 months.
I hope it will net me lower than 12 sec pass, but lower by how much and will my car finish in one piece? I've still got some time to think over my options...

PS: I know those formulas Ben, I've even incorporated them into "online engine calculator" quite some time ago, ;) but thanks anyway!

http://four.fsphost.com/valmes/ecv1_2rusad.htm ooops it's in Russian, my bad...

Will have to get this one altered a bit to show all numbers:
http://four.fsphost.com/valmes/ecv1_2.htm

bradc

07-03-2007, 07:16 AM

I would say that dropping the weight down to 1300kg would make a huge difference and get you most of the way there. I know you have a proper twin-plate clutch, so I think that with some slicks and weight reduction you probably aren't far off it to be honest. 150hp of NOS will get you there :D

ako

07-03-2007, 10:04 AM

I want your budget!

Its do-able. Take a leaf from the GTO / 3000GT boys - they have the same issues we do. They get around it with bulk power, not weight loss so much. Gut it anyway though, if you want those times its gonna need everything you can get.

Your fuel system is gonna need a massive boost. The nitrous just might be enough to do it all - I like the way you think ref disposable engines too :P

Remember it takes a lot of trial and error to get a car this quick. Cars that should run low 11's more often than not run a mid 12ish their first time out, purely because a road test is a lot different to how things are at the track.

Driver error shows up much worse at these times too - a bad launch or missed shift means 14.5 instead of 14.0 - it also means 12.5 instead of 11.5.

You could make the power via bigger turbos, internals etc etc

Or like you said, just throw a massive wet NOS kit into it, buy a spare engine, and cross your fingers. My guess is the AYC rear end with die on the line (I've even seen them die under constant straight line power, on the road and dyno), the engine will go at mid track, or you'll absolutely blow the current quickest V6 VR4 times out of the water.

Hope its the third option ;)

bradc

07-03-2007, 10:09 AM

might be an idea to convert to an LSD for this operation valmes :)

Eurospec

07-03-2007, 10:44 AM

might be an idea to convert to an LSD for this operation valmes :)

I agree, i'm thinking clutch or ayc diff will blow.

The nitrous route will get you there, but its a good idea to think of the engine as dissposable if you are gonna fire in such a big shot.

We fired a 150 shot into our fto, NO traction, bouncing off the rev limiter faster than you could change gear and lifted the heads a little. Every single vac line blew off the engine! It worked, but it wasnt pretty. The head studs couldnt hold it and an awful lot of white smoke was generated as the coolant burnt off! Without NOS, the engine still runs fine after probably 5000 miles!

As for weight loss, bin the air con pump, the air con piping and rad, the reciever drier and all that crap. Removing interior isnt worth it, except for replacing the seats with race seats- although i think you might have done that already.

For the fuel system, well just the obvious, make sure your pump can flow enough at your max anticipated boost pressure to support the injectors at 100% and the NOS.

Good luck with it mate, i think you stand a good chance of doing it, and if it all goes wrong and you end up walking home, at least you are going to learn the limit of some component or other, which only helps for the next time.

Cheers,

Ben.

valmes

10-03-2007, 08:45 AM

btw here are couple of videos from last year event (DragBitva2006):

http://youtube.com/watch?v=AM54qjQDgDk
http://blade.gallery.ru/videos/2139.html

stuey

10-03-2007, 10:38 AM

Good luck dude, great video trailer of the event by the way...

amsoil

10-03-2007, 12:24 PM

Rods

Arrows www.arrowsprecision.com 0044 1455 234200
Arias Forged Pistons 001 310 532 9737
Clarendon Engineering 01455 841200
Carillo 001 949 498 1800
Farndon Enineering 02476 366910
Oliver 001 616 451 833
Pankl 0043 3862 512 500
Cosworth 01604 752444

Bolts
ARP www.arp-bolts.com 001 1455 234200

Pistons
AE 01274 729 595
Arias 01274 729595
Cosworth 01604 752444
JE Pistons 001 714 898 9763
Omega 0121 559 6778
Ross www.coordsport.com 01384 216109

You will also need a billet or forged crank to EN40B spec so may as well look into boring as stroking (if possible) in the 1st instance as this will obviously increase the engines capacity and cubic inches are the easiest way to make power.

Get racecar engineering to find out the companies at the top of the pile for everything you need, you wont get better but the question really is if you really need the very best at a premium price?

Buying unwanted race race parts will save you a fortune if appropriate, Also reasearching if you can use other more common (and therefore more numerous and cheaper) parts inside your as yet custom made set of internals is also facinating; ie I use SBC Small block Chevy rods inside my Jag engines. Dollars are cheap, the lengths are the same and the smaller Big end looses weight from the crank journals (and allows a larger stroke from the same forging) and weight from the rod. I now hear that the latest racing chevy engines use Honda rods! for exactly the same reason I use chevy in the Jag. So maybe the next time I have the internals made , rather than luck in of someones elses parts at a fraction of the cost, I may consider Honda in the Jag; hope you get the idea.

Nearly forgot; your block WILL need steel caps if it hasn't got them as standard (not ally or cast iron) . If you really get serious it may also need a 'strap' .

amsoil

10-03-2007, 12:43 PM

These are cheap , (but only if correct for your engine)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mitsubishi-3000GT-6G72T-Rods-and-Pistons-Package_W0QQitemZ180069441433QQihZ008QQcategoryZ72 205QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
You get the idea

Nutter_John

10-03-2007, 12:54 PM

wrong size don , our rods are a different lenght

there is toyota car that has a lenght closet to the 6a13 , it is slightly out but this would help reduce the compression ratio . I have attached a list of conrods there sizes and ( small end , big end , lenght , width etc )

amsoil

10-03-2007, 01:54 PM

I thought they might be but the dealer is worth a phone call as its like free rods with a package like that. Other thoughts are that a smaller rod , end to end, will allow a longer stroke without the std piston sticking out the top. If you are getting a custom set of pistons then the wrist pin can be at moved up and down a little and the diameter bored and reamed to whatever size you want and the forging will allow. If the Big end size is smaller in the rod then the custom crank is made accordingly. Realistically the limits are what bearings are available and how far you can go without loosing the intergity of the block ; a little 'fettlin' inside the bolck is very common when upping the capacity.
Important is you get a 'package' and preferably that someone else has paid to develope and prove.

bradc

10-03-2007, 09:13 PM

Don, you've seen pics of my engine disassembled, and you've seen the rods + pistons + crank on that. In your opinion for relaible 500hp running everyday I'm going to get new forged pistons and rods, but do you think the crank looks fine? I'm not going to go past 7000rpm, so is it really needed?

Also what are you talking about with the 'steel caps' and a strap comment, and how important are ARP head bolts? I never figured that one out....

Nick Mann

10-03-2007, 10:25 PM

Having seen a 6A13 block stripped, I would say that there is an option for a bit of stroking. ( /pan ) The smaller rod with a bigger offset on the crank could be a good way to go. Unfortunately, I don't have enough knowledge to say ho much more of the cylinder could be used. It appeared to me that there were several millimetres of available cylinder unused in the block I saw.

zentac

10-03-2007, 10:29 PM

our thoughts exactly, I have a spare block that we are going to cut up to see just how far it can be bored.

Nick Mann

10-03-2007, 10:35 PM

our thoughts exactly, I have a spare block that we are going to cut up to see just how far it can be bored.

Talk to Nobles, Richard. They started down that road for PJ. I'm not sure how far they got.

bradc

10-03-2007, 10:43 PM

Why bore out though, isn't that going to weaken the block having the cylinders closer to each other?

Eurospec

12-03-2007, 10:25 AM

Just on the bore out ability....

On the 6G72 its common for the head gasket to fail between the centre bore and the water jacket surrounding it. In high hp applications its even possible to melt away the edge of the combustion chamber at this point.

The 6A12 certainly has water jackets positioned in the same place, and the blocks being very very similar, i imagine the 6A13 does too.

If you overbore it, you will reduce the amount of material separating the jacket from the bore at this point, and therfore weaken the area.

A guy called Ray pampena who has built the worlds most powerfull 6g72 (put down over 900 at the wheels in an AUTO!) has done quite a bit of research into this phenominum and recons the thing to do is to weld supports into the water jacket at that point to prevent the flexing which allows the gasket to breach at that point.

Here is an example of an extreme failure

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/benh/gtohead.jpg

Not saying this is going to happen if you go with an overbore, but in high boost high hp applications it is going to make it more likely.

Hope thats helpful,

Cheers,

Ben.

amsoil

12-03-2007, 11:44 AM

Let it be clear that I don't know this particular engine which may very well have some quirks of its own. Steel main bearing caps (if not already on this engine, you tell me) are always needed on very uprated engine as cast caps split, usually from the shock of detonation and ally caps are usually only built for the standard application. Some engines are known to flex in high power applications such as the Rover/ Buick V8 which absolutely needs what is called a girdle or strap at the bottom end. This is something like an additional plate that connets all the main bearing caps together and not only prevents one from blowing off but stiffens up the bottom of the block keeping the crank running true.
With over boring you will need custom gaskets or better still Wills or Coopers rings. There sealing rings usually sit in a recess at the top of the bores and are for very good seal of the cylinders under extreme pressure They are pritty well a must and can even be reused a few times.
The only time I have seen 'burn through like the pics on that cylinder head is on drag racing cars running Nos and or Nitro; Its is nearly always solved by rewelding and is not so uncommon.
Just wondering if things would be easier to fit a 3L v6 as it a straight 20% increase in capacity as standard which will = 30+ % increase in available power , then do the mods to this as clearly the rods and pistons appear available? just asking.

bradc

13-03-2007, 06:07 AM

Don, the 6A13 sits the other way to the 6G72 engines, so it's probably a bit difficult to convert to one of them. We could drop in the new short V8 that Volvo make for east-west engine bays, that would be fun :)

imho the 2.5l v6 is big enough for what 99% of us want to do, the stock turbos provide virtually instant boost and are good for 330hp, maybe a little bit more. It sounds as if boring is out of the question, so maybe stroking it slightly could be done.

Eurospec

13-03-2007, 10:14 AM

Some interesting stuff in this thread!

Re flex, the 6G72, which is a lot beefier at the bottom than the 6A13 will bend a forged crank around the 900hp level. The most visible effect of this is that the two centre main bearings (as opposed to the big end shells) get scowled out by the crank. Keep going and the crank eventualy cracks and then breaks. The US guys are developing billet cranks now to help withstand this.

If you are building a powerful motor that needs to have reliability for every day use, then a forged crank will help. Balancing it as a rotational assembly will help too in terms of reducing the amplitude of any vibration and helping it if you intend to rev high or for longer periods. I was surprised just how much came off! Be sure to have the whole lot balanced though.

Steel con rods, like crower et al, will come with steel caps and strengthened bolts.

ARP head (and or bottom end) studs will help contain the flexing that occurs in the joints and you can of course tighten them more than std.

I dont know enough about the 6A13 to say when the nasty stuff will start to occur in terms of power output, but go high enough and the weak part will be found.

If you are building a monster engine i wouldnt grind the crank to a lower diameter and fit oversize shells. Even in a standard engine i have gone right off this. My reasoning being that you take a crank to an engineers and say, okay here is a crank, please take 10 thou off the journals, because you know you can get 10 thou over shells. They do. Firstly, this reduces the crank diameter, which for a monster engine certainly isnt going to stregthen it. 2nd, what are they taking 10 thou off? The high point? The low point? the manufactures spec? You never know unless your machine shop is very good. For quite a while we actually stopped getting cranks ground for exactly this reason when fixing failed bottom ends. Now we have found through one of our contacts a machine shop who take the crank and grind it. They then nitride it, which increases the size of the journals. They then polish it back to exactly the manufacturers spec. They also provide matched shells, mains and thrusts. For monster engines we go with new OEM forged cranks.

When increasing the capacity, say with a stroker crank, then as Don has suggested, there is quite a bit of work inside the block. The girdle which contains the mains may need 'clearancing' to stop the counter weights or the rod caps smacking it. For clearancing, read needs bits machined off it. This is going to mean that the bearing journals in this girdle and in the block need line honing to take out any deviation which may have occured as other bits were machined. You might need pistons with shorter skirts, or the wells in the bottom of the bores machined out a little.

Stroker kits are very young in the 72, and as yet no one has seen any issues which this machining work may throw up. It may be none, and certainly the initial results in the US have not thrown up any issues. there are stroker kits there for the 4G63 and i have heard of no issues with those, even in extremely high hp aplications.

Cheers,

Ben.

amsoil

15-03-2007, 12:18 PM

Ok its starting to get good! Now are we saying that it is known that the Crank definately is forged as standard? Do all the big end bearing bottom 'caps' come off together as if the bottom of the engine is split ? or are they separate bearing caps? Quite important as it is possible that this engine might just be a very good basis for upping the power relatively cheaply. (well to the 5/600 mark anyway):inquisiti

calum

15-03-2007, 12:40 PM

If there's an issue with boring out and hitting the water jacket then liners can also be considered/ used.

I really don't think you're going to need a new crank for 550-650bhp, but I'm talking about 'normal' mods, not switching on a 150 NOS shot all of a sudden. I can imagine that loads it up FAST and may cause issues.

Calum

Nutter_John

15-03-2007, 12:50 PM

Don we can show you a crank and ends caps tomorrow

amsoil

15-03-2007, 01:32 PM

Sounds good to me , whats the old saying.... I'll show you mine if you show me yours! LOL

If you want to see cranks rods and pistons And 'that' car then my H/a is a better venue. Could even do theat and then go upto Oxford after PM me if you fancy modding the plan

amsoil

15-03-2007, 01:37 PM

I really don't think you're going to need a new crank for 550-650bhp, but I'm talking about 'normal' mods, not switching on a 150 NOS shot all of a sudden. I can imagine that loads it up FAST and may cause issues.

CalumThats where I was working to IF the std crank is forged and the bottom end is a girdle. But rods and pistons would still be on the shopping list.
No one has mentioned oiling , I know , Iknow , not trying to sell here. But most engines looking for this kind of power increase need bigger pumps, larger oilways and mods to the bearings to allow more oil through to 'float' the crank.

Eurospec

15-03-2007, 04:24 PM

the 6A12 is certainly a girdle, so i am sure the 6A13 is too, but i have never had one in that many bits!

As to wheter the crank is forged or cast, take a look at it. You will see by inspection. I made the assumption that all available cranks from mitsu are now forged as they seemed to make that change in the mid 90's but again i dont KNOW. All the ones we ever get are.

The reason i am suggesting a new crank, or a forged one if they are indeed not forged, is that i dont think its a good place to start to build a 600 brake motor on an already warn crank. It may well still be in spec, but you are going to have to take it out and mic it up at minimum and plastiguage the bottom end clearances, but when you are spending that much on a built engine, i would do the crank anyway. Say its still in spec, but at the big end of the clearance when you plastiguage it up, then i would go with a new crank. Whilst it may be fine in a stock motor if its gonna be pounded, may as well have the best start.

Cheers,

Ben.

Eurospec

15-03-2007, 04:30 PM

Sorry, one other thing, just reading dons post there about oil again......

I doubt you can get a high flow/pressure pump, but if you could, definately do. You could think about shimming the bypass valve, but that will only increase the max pressure at which the bypass opens. If the pressure never gets up there it wont help. The toga 6g72 pump is just an oem pump with a shim in the valve, flown no more.

Also, does the 6a33tt block have oil squirters under the pistons fed of the mains?

These have a tendancy to stick open and cause low oil pressure, but they can be replaced. Many people i have spoken to say these squirters dont have much benefit anyway and they put 'closed' bearings in the mains. This greatly increases oil pressure, but i dont know if its true that the squirters are of little benefit.

Cheers,

Ben.

stuartturbo

15-03-2007, 06:53 PM

Under piston jets are there to cool the piston as well as lube it up

edit some poop out
No matter what you do to the oil pump it will have no effect on amount of oil passed round engine.
You must open oil galleries to increase flow but pressure will drop at the pump so you must then increase the pressure in the pump by the washer under the spring in the flow control valve in the oil pump.
An engine oil ways can be represented as say a 2.5mm diameter hole.
So a pump will generate 3 bar pressure at 20l/min at say 1000rpm if you increase anything in the oil pump the flow will stay the same but the pressure will raise since the oil ways cannot flow any more oil.
On the jag V8 the oil pump was suitable for the NA engine but when the Supercharger was added the flow demand went up, the pump still produced enougth flow but the pressure the dropped so a "washer" gets fitted to raise the pressure to the required level.
A risk off the is premature wear due to cavitation damage (pump cannot draw in enougth oil)

valmes

26-03-2007, 01:47 PM

I think the bet is off... :) The guy that offered it, started to back up.

That doesn't mean I won't be heading for the best result possible, just a little less pressure... and now I have to think of a "safer" way of achieving my goals, not just blowing up every bit of my car...

Found this:
http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?postid=940515

Prices are good... does anybody know if they ever did a set of pistons and rods for VR-4?

bradc

26-03-2007, 07:53 PM

At least it gives you more time to properly do it, get in touch with Zentac for forged internals.

valmes

27-03-2007, 11:26 AM

At least it gives you more time to properly do it, get in touch with Zentac for forged internals.

J2500 = $4900 (USD) - kinda high for a set of forged internals...

For 6g72TT I've seen options for forged pistons at as low as 600$ a set.

Even if you buy from online shop (such as 3sx for example) it will come to:
$949,95 - Ross Pistons and rings (set of six)
$1249,95 - Pauter Rods (set of six)
------------
Total of $2199,90

I know our engine is different and we don't have off the shelf parts, but I guess I would rather buy 5 spare engines at $4900... So I think I will look for other options for now.

There are plenty of companies that can do a custom set of rods and pistons... I have not looked into it yet, but a quick search shows it can be done.

Look at this for example, set of 6 JE custom pistons and 6 Pauter custom Rods comes to around $1800 total:
http://forums.audiworld.com/groupbuys/msgs/670.phtml

More links:
http://www.wiseco.com/default.aspx
http://www.pauter.com/billet_rods.htm
http://www.rosspistons.com/auto_custom_pistons_detail.php?cat=64&item=14
http://www.rosspistons.com/uploads/6_cylinder_custom_m_v.pdf
http://www.atomicspeedware.com/custompistons.htm
http://www.racetep.com/jecustom.html
http://www.jepistons.com/dept/order/

zentac

27-03-2007, 05:28 PM

I think Ive got prices from most of those people, I will dig them out and let you know.

valmes

27-03-2007, 06:43 PM

I think Ive got prices from most of those people, I will dig them out and let you know.

Thanx Zentac! ;)

Wodjno

27-03-2007, 06:45 PM

Thanx Zentac! ;)

I have contacted a company than shorten and strengthen our OE Rods.. Also stonger crank.. Will update :thinking:

valmes

28-03-2007, 01:39 AM

I have contacted a company than shorten and strengthen our OE Rods.. Also stonger crank.. Will update :thinking:

Hmmm, how can you do that? :inquisiti ... and did you mention a stronger crank? I wanna hear more! ;) Wodj spit it out!

I wonder if JUN has something ready for our engine... after all I don't think that HK Galant (while on 6a13) was with stock internals?

Wodjno

28-03-2007, 01:50 AM

Hmmm, how can you do that? :inquisiti ... and did you mention a stronger crank? I wanna hear more! ;) Wodj spit it out!

I wonder if JUN has something ready for our engine... after all I don't think that HK Galant (while on 6a13) was with stock internals?

They are heated, shrunk and then strengthened :pimp2:

All will be revealed /yes

"Be patient young Luke" :vulcan:

amsoil

28-03-2007, 07:15 AM

Standard rods can be given more resistance to failure by removing any forging marks and polishing, followed by shot peening stress relieving and cryno freezing. They wont become stronger just less likely to fail. It is usually cheaper to buy proper forged beam rods and is usually only done when the regs require std rods to be retained ie blueprinting.
Cranks can be lightened balanced statically and dynamically and have the surface embedded with cyanide nitrate which makes the journals very hard. They should also be x-rayed or the like for fractures which could propagate under high stress leading to failure. Again usually cheaper to buy a good froged crank.
The million dollar question is how good the std items actually are!?
Be very careful with cheap forged rods. They will be cheap for a reason as rod making is fairly competitive. They are not all equal and you will generally get what you pay for;

newman132

02-05-2007, 10:18 AM

this probably sounds stupid but i have only just purchased my galnt because they have just been allowed in australia and before doing this i read a road test in high perfomance magazine on the galant and they said that forged pistons are standard with the car???

Gly

02-05-2007, 10:22 AM

no there not, we would all be running huge amounts of boost and nos if they did,

bradc

02-05-2007, 10:25 AM

the pistons might be, a few people have reported the ring lands cracking or being damaged, but it isn't common

the rods aren't very strong though, a few people have destroyed theirs

amsoil

02-05-2007, 10:56 AM

Also remember as with all things in life there is a 'quality' difference.

Nick Mann

02-05-2007, 11:14 AM

no there not, we would all be running huge amounts of boost and nos if they did,

Some people have run large amounts of nos? And we can't run large amounts of boost - the turbos can't do it!

I don't know of many engine failures on the 6A13TT that can be put down to simply too much power. There are other things in the background that always make me question whether the fuelling was right for the power.

There is a thread somewhere that questions exactly that.

pitmac

02-05-2007, 11:16 AM

The Rods arn't very strong, a few people have destoyed theirs.
Under what circumstances (ie what boost and what revs)
I'm interested in the detail as we all should be.

Nick Mann

02-05-2007, 01:15 PM

Engine failures (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20553)

Goku

03-05-2007, 12:21 AM

Just for us NZ guys, Ralli Art NZ will make forged pistons for the 6A13TT for around $1700, and a forged crank for about the same.
These prices are about 6-8 months old now, but it couldn't hurt to see what they'd charge now.

bradc

03-05-2007, 12:36 AM

yeah there is a few places out there that will do it. Ralliart actually won't be doing it, one of their ex-workers Peter will do it, who now works on the shore at another company.

amsoil

03-05-2007, 12:52 AM

Just a silly observation for which you may slap me down; but; .... The pistons appear to fail at the lans ie the edge above the rings. Any half decent forged piston should be stong enough to resist this unless.... the fault is not the piston but destructive detonation. Ie the engine runs toooooo far advanced for the fuel mixture / runs tooooo weak. This hammering of the pistons can easily be imagined to be transfered down to.... the con rods. These dont have to fail catastophically straight away but the load being transfered to the bearing which can bruse or even be split or spun will in seconds lead to a catastrophic failure. Bottom line is I'm just wondering if people are looking at the wrong area ie pistons and rods. Could not the real problem be an ECU that is totally unable to cope with the extra fuel and advance/ retard requirements of what many people require?

bradc

03-05-2007, 02:42 AM

Don, yeah I've heard of a few people breaking the ring lands. You might be right about the pistons, but have you seen how small the rods are on a 6a13tt?

pitmac

03-05-2007, 02:45 AM

I think if you check your service manual you will find the crankshafts are drop forged steel and nitrided. Pretty std for Mitsubishi.

Kieran

03-05-2007, 05:49 AM

....unless.... the fault is not the piston but destructive detonation. Ie the engine runs toooooo far advanced for the fuel mixture / runs tooooo weak. Could not the real problem be an ECU that is totally unable to cope with the extra fuel and advance/ retard requirements of what many people require?

Well that's pretty much in line with BenH's experiences of popped Mitsubishi (and no doubt other turbo engines) in general. Busted ringlands seem to be as a consequence of detonation from what we've seen - You get the dreaded 'Fart of Doom' followed by sick sounding engine. Regarding the engines popped in the club, as noted in the Engine failure thread that Nick linked to above, high boost levels or NOS have been a factor in most cases where the ringlands have been toasted.

Something else to think about, that may add weight to the above.... It's interesting to note that AderC (who untill recently had an apparently standard car) has used a data logger and has recorded occasional knock counts of 2 or 3 when some cheaper brands of Super unleaded (97RON). This is in spite of the fact that these cars seem to run absolutely stupid rich (10:1 AFRs) even when standard. I know that some small knock occasionally is not always a major issue, but it's interesting nonetheless.

Wodjno

03-05-2007, 08:08 AM

Quick question ?

How does our ECU read Knock ? I know it has knock sensor ! But is it read by voltage, resistance or other ??

Kenneth

03-05-2007, 10:05 AM

Quick question ?

How does our ECU read Knock ? I know it has knock sensor ! But is it read by voltage, resistance or other ??

noise mate... its essentially a microphone (pizeo sensor or some crap) that listens for certian characteristics in the noise the engine makes.

this is why drop in "octane booster"s can be bad, as they dont always make the fuel any better, instead they can just cause a small change in the detonation wave form that fools the ecu into not retarding the ignition.

Eurospec

03-05-2007, 10:46 AM

Normally the top end failures i have seen are detonation related as Kieran mentioned.

The ECU can take action to alieviate knock. It can dump in fuel, and it can retard igntion timing. If you are stock boosted, it can also reduce boost.

The values reported by loggers are knock sums, not raw knock values. There is a lot of noise coming out of the engine, so the knock sensor is listening specifically for det.

If the knock sum seen by the ecu exceeds 5, then the ecu will start to take action. The most effective (and fastest) of which is to pull timing.

By this you could believe that the mitsubishi engineers belived that a knock count of 5 was okay, but beyond was damaging. Personally i dont like to see it at all. Have a look at a knock sum when you hit fuel cut though- now that is nasty, though fortunately short lived.

Fuel octane and adative packages within it make a big difference to knock. Example, in an Evo 6 run on V power, zero knock at 1.5 bar. Run on Tescos 99, knock present at the same boost pressure.

Cheers,

Ben.

Nutter_John

03-05-2007, 10:49 AM

I had a knock sum of 33 when I hit fuel cut on the rollers at the last rolling road day , must admit the starfish started to twitch

Wodjno

03-05-2007, 11:09 AM

noise mate... its essentially a microphone (pizeo sensor or some crap) that listens for certian characteristics in the noise the engine makes.

But the ECU must read it as a Voltage or Resistance or Summat.. I mean, the ECU ain't got ears :D

You See

03-05-2007, 11:52 AM

Yup...A knock sensor is a piezo electric device that when you stress it, a voltage is produced.

Wodjno

03-05-2007, 11:56 AM

Yup...A knock sensor is a piezo electric device that when you stress it, a voltage is produced.

Thats good then /yes i should be able to log this via my E-01 and Emanage !!

I know it will be a little raw, but with a bit of analysing, a should be able to work out what is knock and what isn't :)

Even if i have to induce fuel cut to see the extremes of the voltage signal.. :speechles

Eurospec

03-05-2007, 01:24 PM

Thats good then /yes i should be able to log this via my E-01 and Emanage !!

I know it will be a little raw, but with a bit of analysing, a should be able to work out what is knock and what isn't :)

Even if i have to induce fuel cut to see the extremes of the voltage signal.. :speechles

Yeah, you will be able to do it like that. You will see a wiggly line and when it spikes up, thats a knock event.

When the first safc with the vcd screen came out, peole did the 'white wire' mod which they connected to the knock sensor output to monitor it. You see a wiggly line that basically increases with rpm (more noise) and the knock shows up as a spike.

Some swear that monitoring knock like this is effective, i have heard it argued that the speed and duration at which knock could occur was too fast for the safc to respond to it so you couldnt see it.

Datalogger or knock link, or both is the way really.

Cheers,

Ben.

Kieran

03-05-2007, 04:44 PM

I had a knock sum of 33 when I hit fuel cut on the rollers at the last rolling road day , must admit the starfish started to twitch

:speechles :toilet: :toilet:

I've hit fuel cut once only. Dear god did I $h@t myself!!:toilet: :toilet:

Wodjno

03-05-2007, 05:05 PM

Yeah, you will be able to do it like that. You will see a wiggly line and when it spikes up, thats a knock event.

When the first safc with the vcd screen came out, peole did the 'white wire' mod which they connected to the knock sensor output to monitor it. You see a wiggly line that basically increases with rpm (more noise) and the knock shows up as a spike.

Some swear that monitoring knock like this is effective, i have heard it argued that the speed and duration at which knock could occur was too fast for the safc to respond to it so you couldnt see it.

Datalogger or knock link, or both is the way really.

Cheers,

Ben.
Cheers Ben

The Ultimate has facility to log Knock, but Greddy hadn't sorted the software to alllow it last time i checked. Although there are 3 more software updates available now, and 1 of these might now incorporate the said software :D

Lets hope :inquisiti

amsoil

03-05-2007, 07:33 PM

Just my little 2 peneth again; you of course realise that there are 2 types of knock that are totally different. One is caused by too early a spark for the mixture and the other by pre ignition. One can burn holes in pistons and the other smash the lans.

Wodjno

03-05-2007, 07:39 PM

Kieran

03-05-2007, 08:05 PM

How do you differentiate the 2 ??

This is the best explanation I've ever read. But If you're asking how does one differentiate the two when viewing knock logs, well I don't know, I think the only way would be to look at the sound's waveform as I imagine the two sound slightly different.

http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=281822

valmes

04-05-2007, 03:31 PM

Cheers Ben

The Ultimate has facility to log Knock, but Greddy hadn't sorted the software to alllow it last time i checked. Although there are 3 more software updates available now, and 1 of these might now incorporate the said software :D

Lets hope :inquisiti

It does log knock from v.2.00 on ... I now have v2.12 / 2.12 / 1.03 installed on my EMU and laptop.

wnwnwnw

10-10-2007, 04:52 PM

This may sound funny... But It is easier to remove weight from the car & kill the current engine with nos...

Nick Mann

10-10-2007, 06:08 PM

This may sound funny... But It is easier to remove weight from the car & kill the current engine with nos...

That has been done to a point, and 12.5 ish was the limit. So 11s and 10s look quite difficult using that alone.

Kieran

10-10-2007, 08:58 PM

This may sound funny... But It is easier to remove weight from the car & kill the current engine with nos...

As Nick says - still ain't that easy. Personally, I'm looking forward to to the day we see a fully road legal and fully trimmed VR-4 break into the 11s/10s. Weight loss and NOS have their place, for sure - But I think there's a certain nobility in turning up in a fully trimmed car and still laying waste to the opposition.

Mind you, a long, rocky and expensive road that is - NOS is cheap, effective power if you want that kinda thing.

wnwnwnw

11-10-2007, 02:30 AM

So you are going for serios tuning....Good luck.....You can do that.....
6A13 is good engine just need bigger turbo & cam upgrade.........

Space is the problem for turbo upgrade....But nothing impossible.

valmes

20-10-2007, 06:30 AM

I bit of an update.. although pictures are already quite old.

Kieran

20-10-2007, 10:39 AM

What size are the turbos Valmes?

bradc

20-10-2007, 11:11 AM

as in his sig TD05's

Kieran

20-10-2007, 12:14 PM

as in his sig TD05's

Ah yeah.... Well spotted......:oops: /pan

valmes

21-10-2007, 05:35 AM

They are Scoobie TD05H16Gs...

After reading this:
http://www.3si.org/forum/showthread.php?t=390896&highlight=Dynamic+Racing

I am thinking... 6g74 or better yet 6g75 with a twin PT-67 and a Shepard DogBox would make an awesome drag machine! :) Legnum is lighter than 3S, it has an EVO tranny... and chances are - 6g75 WILL fit under the hood... :) and there is a stroker kit in the works for 6g74 (from Ray Pampena... DR car uses his 3.0-->3.7 stroker with a billet crank) getting the displacement to 4.5 liters... ooohhhh possibilities... :)

If they can go 10.1 sec at only 1 bar of boost on a 3.7l engine, ARC-2 (piggy back) and 6x720cc... and 9.7 sec at 1.14 bars... hmmm :inquisiti :thinking:

valmes

21-10-2007, 05:44 AM

Ohhh... its 4 years since I've joined the cvlubvr4 forum and I've made only 900 posts :) interesting.

bradc

21-10-2007, 05:47 AM

how well do they bolt up to the stock manifold?

valmes

21-10-2007, 05:51 AM

how well do they bolt up to the stock manifold?

As you can see Brad - they are pretty much feeling themselves at home :scholar:

valmes

21-10-2007, 05:53 AM

Hell... Brad... 11 x my posts :D

bradc

21-10-2007, 06:06 AM

haha yeah I know, but there were some questions about people finding that fitting Sub WRX TD04's onto the stock manifolds were difficult, so I wonder if the TD05's are any worse

valmes

09-05-2008, 09:24 PM

http://ozvr4.com/forums/showthread.php?t=226&page=12

A bit of an update on www.OZVR4.com (sorry, it's pain in the ass to upload pictures on this forum... easier for me to just link to photobucket ;) ).

Nick Mann

09-05-2008, 10:02 PM

Some nice info there, Valmes! :thumbsup: A nice video link too.....

miller

09-05-2008, 10:10 PM

awesome vid! how quick to 7krpm come round!!!!!

Kieran

09-05-2008, 10:59 PM

Feck! Cracking Job Val!!:afro:

valmes

10-05-2008, 03:15 AM

Yeahh seems like 7400 is too low for this engine. Will try 8000-8200.

bradc

10-05-2008, 03:46 AM

you're going to kill it :)

You're still on stock internals aren't you?

d i c k i e s

10-05-2008, 03:54 AM

nice vid valmes!

valmes

10-05-2008, 04:29 AM

Yes, I am on stock internals and pump gas, but for now - there is no sign of detonation even at 1.54 bar :) Had to retard timing up to 10% in the EMU though... cause initially it was knocking in 5500-6500 region on 11.7-11.9 AFR :)... to be safe got it down to 11.3-11.4 AFR too.

Tune is not prefect yet, but I am not in the rush... I don't think 500hp requires forged internals... with a safe tune it should hold that power fine.

bradc

10-05-2008, 04:35 AM

so keep tuning and putting the boost up then :)

valmes

10-05-2008, 04:42 AM

Also I belive the HP/PS numbers are a bit off... I am sure I am loosing around a second with a start and getting into rev limit in every gear doesn't help also... It can go under 12 sec. in full weight... just have to get that start right.

valmes

10-05-2008, 05:33 AM

BTW... Mitsubishi Karman Vortex MAF + stock ECU + EMU = who said it can't do the job?

bradc

10-05-2008, 06:00 AM

valmes

10-05-2008, 06:25 AM

an Autronic would still be better :)

What does it spool like with the TD05's? With my car if I'm driving around at lowish rpm and hit the throttle it starts to come awake around 2500rpm and is pulling like mad at 3000rpm.

Ohh and congrats on your 1000th post. Took you long enough :) :P

Alright... better in what respect? :)

Positive boost at 2800 rpm...
0.5 bar at 4000 rpm
1.0 bar at 4800 rpm
1.2 bar at 5000 rpm

Thanks, I am now at 1001... Wow ;)

bradc

10-05-2008, 07:09 AM

Thats not a bad spool.

What happens if you are at say 4000rpm and floor it? Does it take a second to start boosting?

Goku

10-05-2008, 11:53 PM

Your car is insane Valmes

I showed the video to my brother.... you have inspired him to get more power from his Legnum :D

djb160

11-05-2008, 12:16 AM

Tell him to get some better suspension for a start, I couldn't believe how much camber he's got on the rear. He's going to go through those $800 eagles in record time.

valmes

11-05-2008, 04:13 PM

Today I went against CBR1000 Fireblade... :)) Won two times...

How quick are they?

That one claimed to easily take out local evo7 that goes 12.8, but he couldn't get past me even after we got up to 200kph. :)) In fact I was pulling on him in every gear... although today we had +22C and I didn't get a chance to get rid of detonation (I could feel when timing got retarded due to knock...) Showed only 406PS after both runs.

Louis

11-05-2008, 04:27 PM

well done Valmes, very interesting stuff, good luck

valmes

11-05-2008, 05:59 PM

Thanx Louis.

I am still using NGK Iridiums (6) at 1.3-1.5 bars and 22C... should find colder plugs asap...

djb160

11-05-2008, 10:41 PM

Do you think that the internals and block are quite happy to be running this much power Valmes, or is it a type time bomb?

valmes

12-05-2008, 03:35 AM

Time will tell...

Goku

12-05-2008, 03:43 AM

Tell him to get some better suspension for a start, I couldn't believe how much camber he's got on the rear. He's going to go through those $800 eagles in record time.

The camber isn't so bad on the 17"s, but all mitsubishi's do that when lowered

Ryan

12-05-2008, 05:11 AM

Valmes - I was very impressed with that vid clip man, the fastest I've ever seen a Legnum clock filled before! /notworthy

d i c k i e s

12-05-2008, 05:17 AM

0km to 60km was so quick, if u blink you would have missed it!

Goku

12-05-2008, 06:01 AM

yea, like 3-4 sec to 100k, and half that for 100 - 160, in 3rd gear I believe ?

valmes

12-05-2008, 11:04 AM

http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=FkF4eW-O2bA
http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=v3nCIAcspIw

Louis

12-05-2008, 12:56 PM

HOLY F*CK!,
That is so impressive, ( and I didn't see any engine bits or oil after you pulled away!! lol), usualy when I watch something like that in you tube it is followed by a bang!. Awesome, well done.

pezza

12-05-2008, 12:56 PM

NutS!

Turbo_Steve

12-05-2008, 01:54 PM

That's one heck of an achievement, Valmes: Serious Kudos to you for building a proper drag weapon.

Is the 0-60kmh time so quick because all four wheels have spun up? i.e. 0-60kmh is actually how long it takes for the wheels to stop spinning? In which case....cool :D

You've piggybacked the EMU......which sounds like you've retained knock correction (from Factory ECU?).

Does this mean you've retained AYC? But no TC?
What's it like as a road car? Spool time is obviously going to be a little longer, but from the numbers you've posted it still sounds very driveable.
Have you had to make significant changes to partial throttle enrichment tables?
Are you running altered Knock maps in the EMU, or just relying on the factory ECU pulling timing?
What size injectors did you end up going for, as idle still sounds lovely and smooth!
I belive you're still on the factory Cams: have you had to retard the exhaust timing on these to retain healthy boost so early?

That's a really awesome set of mods there, Valmes, and you must be pleased that all your hard work is paying off so well. I have to confess that I am surprised that a TD05-16G is responding so well on a 3-cylinder 1.25L engine: I thought it would be laggier than you describe.

For me, and I think several others on here, part of the appeal of the VR-4 is the instant power, so seeing how good this is really reinforces how small a compromise TD04s or something in th GT25 series would be.

Brilliant work, and thank you for being so forthcoming on your results and experiences.

valmes

12-05-2008, 05:32 PM

You've piggybacked the EMU......which sounds like you've retained knock correction (from Factory ECU?).

Yes. Stock ECU is still in place and does its job... and it still corrects timing and fuel if knock is detected.

Does this mean you've retained AYC? But no TC?

I've lost you there... I've retained everything stock car has. AYC, climate control, CD... what's TC? Traction Control? As far as I am aware - only Autos had that in the first place...

What's it like as a road car? Spool time is obviously going to be a little longer, but from the numbers you've posted it still sounds very driveable.

It's fun to drive :) Pulling in second gear with 1.4 bars... from a bike. Hehe... I don't miss small turbos. ;)

Have you had to make significant changes to partial throttle enrichment tables?

No.

Are you running altered Knock maps in the EMU, or just relying on the factory ECU pulling timing?

I am pulling enough timing in EMU to get rid of knock in the first place... but have Intake Temp Ignition Map enabled which pulls even more if temp are higher... Right now most I get is 1-2 counts of random knock through gera changes... nothing major.

And I still've got stock ECU to take care of autoretarding ignition in case there is knock...

What size injectors did you end up going for, as idle still sounds lovely and smooth!

SARD 800cc at 3.7 bar base fuel pressure.

I belive you're still on the factory Cams: have you had to retard the exhaust timing on these to retain healthy boost so early?

Yes I am still on factory Cams and no I didn't touch them :) ...

That's a really awesome set of mods there, Valmes, and you must be pleased that all your hard work is paying off so well. I have to confess that I am surprised that a TD05-16G is responding so well on a 3-cylinder 1.25L engine: I thought it would be laggier than you describe.

After I got rid of the restriction in the tail pipe (it was there to reduce noise...) the spool time increased... about 200rpm... :) Less TQ at lower rpms, but at higher rpms it goes much better.

For me, and I think several others on here, part of the appeal of the VR-4 is the instant power, so seeing how good this is really reinforces how small a compromise TD04s or something in th GT25 series would be.

TD04L should've been there from the factory... :)

bradc

12-05-2008, 08:18 PM

I've been in a VR-4 with TD04's and it felt just like a stock car with TD03's, still no lag at all, very impressive.

Turbo_Steve

12-05-2008, 09:48 PM

Agreed: the more I look into this, the more bizarre the choice of TD03s seems from the factory. -sigh-

Valmes, thanks for the comprehensive responses.
Don't know why, but thought yours was an Auto? Obvious when theres no lights on the dash! LOL Sorry.

As you now have 800cc injectors, and the car goes super-rich on partial throttle even in standard trim, does it not massively overfuel when on throttle changes, making it feel 'boggy'? Or am I missing something?

valmes

13-05-2008, 03:01 PM

One more video...

http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=u1RSOx2IYTg

bradc

13-05-2008, 08:23 PM

the 0-170kmh video is impressive !

d i c k i e s

14-05-2008, 02:53 AM

ohhh ill watch that when i get home!
CBR vids very impressive.

nismoevo

15-05-2008, 10:56 PM

Endless R Mitsubish Galant VR 4 500hp circuit car

Also nice car :)

CANDEE

15-05-2008, 11:36 PM

Hmm i like the width of those rims... any specs on the car??

valmes

16-05-2008, 04:18 AM

It's a circuit Legnum VR-4, but it's nowhere near 500hp.
1/4 - 13.7

All specs here:
http://www.geocities.jp/vr4ti/

There was however, a Jun-built circuit Galant VR-4 with 550bhp 6a13 engine in it.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a82/valmes/JUNGALANT.jpg
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a82/valmes/JUNGALANT1.jpg

PS: Btw it's one in my avatar... :)

Ryan

16-05-2008, 04:22 AM

Impressive - is that what you're aspiring to there? ;)

Goku

16-05-2008, 04:31 AM

I'm liking that Jun one :D

However, where the hell is that pipe going under the plastic cover ?

valmes

16-05-2008, 04:32 AM

Impressive - is that what you're aspiring to there? ;)

Yes, 550bhp would be what I am aiming for... on stock internals. ;)

valmes

16-05-2008, 04:34 AM

I'm liking that Jun one :D

However, where the hell is that pipe going under the plastic cover ?

From front turbo into Y pipe.

djb160

16-05-2008, 05:26 AM

valmes

16-05-2008, 06:39 AM

Is there a gap big enough under there? Or have they modified the plastic a bit? Is that car on stock internals?

Valmes: Goku said you've altered your timing a fair bit to get that power and revs, can you confirm, Also what else have you done that may not be obvious if you don't mind saying?

Engine was built by JUN... I know it has two Td05 turbos, but I've no idea if its stock inside or has forged pistons/rods, head work etc.

Since I am using stock ECU, EMU and 800 cc injectors (working as 900cc due to higher FP) I had to lower Hz values seen by the ECU to an acceptable level (-60% correction)... since I've seen values coming out of MAF(from TT GTO) as high as 2800Hz. Above that I substract injectors in different parts of the map from -15% up to -44%...

That confuses stock ecu as it thinks load is not that high and advances timing from wrong part of the stock timing map. I just re-adjusted it.

valmes

04-06-2008, 06:21 PM

http://tpizza.110mb.com/DPiz14en.htm

First time at the real Dragstrip ;)

Best ET is 12.694... with full weight, 28-29C outside temp and BAD start and shifts...

All cars are moded... more or less... for instance the TwinTurbo Corvette puts out 1200 RWHP at 1.3-1.6 bar ;) The Carbon EVO is 980kg, Dogbox, 2.2+ATP GT3540R 0.83 at 1.65-2.1 bar... etc.

My car at ~1.3 bar... spiked to 1.43... then moved down to 1.25 bar. :) Didn't want to blow up a full weight Legnum with Climate Control on the first pass ;).

Hope I can strip it down next time... get a better than pump fuel (those other cars were running 116RON fuel... as I was using 98 from the nearby gas station... not fair :( ) ... and get the boost and timing where it belongs ;).

Also had a problem when going off the line. I was using Launch Control, but for some reason didn't enable "ign adj" feature... so I was bogging off the line... (no boost). My 60ft were like 2.6 sec... :)

Louis

04-06-2008, 08:07 PM

Throbbe

04-06-2008, 09:50 PM

Jeez, the corvettes reaction time was like over 2 seconds and he still got an 11.47. (what is someone with a 2 second reaction time doing with a car that puts out 1200 RWHP lol!).
If your reaction time was about 0.5 (quite acceptable) you would be into the low 11's' high 10's. Very impressive. Also impressed that the internals took a 1.4 spike, well done.
(you have pm)

Read it again dude. :scholar:

The final figure is without the reaction time. Long reaction indicates he was more concerned with his launch than what the other car was doing.

Wodjno

04-06-2008, 10:02 PM

Read it again dude. :scholar:

The final figure is without the reaction time. Long reaction indicates he was more concerned with his launch than what the other car was doing.

As above... 1/4 mile times do not include the reaction time.. You can sit on the line for 30 secs and still get a time of 15secs.. /yes
Oh.. Nearly forgot ......

WELL DONE VALMES :D

Louis

04-06-2008, 10:06 PM

Your right, I didn't read that correctly!. (head full of carbon evo lol!)

Q. Isn't the reaction time your reaction time from the xmas tree lights change till you trip the start timer?. As I get a reaction time when doing a solo run, ( no car in other lane).

Re corvette, I meant if it takes you 2 secs to react to a light change, your reactions are pretty slow to be driving such a fast car!

Nutter_John

04-06-2008, 10:15 PM

Yes the reaction time is the time taken from the green light to the breaking of the light beam timer . As was stated having a long reaction time may not be anything bad at all , there are times when you just want to setup properly before going , or even let the other guy get ahead so you have a rabit to chase .

Louis

04-06-2008, 10:20 PM

I always try and get off as quick as poss!, (probably comes from too many traffic light races), lol

Wodjno

04-06-2008, 10:39 PM

I always try and get off as quick as poss!, (probably comes from too many traffic light races), lol

Traffic light races are different.. You need to be 1st off the mark as the the idiot in the Corsa next to u will be telling all his mates that he left a 300bhp car for dead at the lights /yes even if you do pass him 50mts down the road /rally

Nick Mann

04-06-2008, 10:50 PM

That's the best ET I have seen for a proper Legnum! Cracking result. I look forwards to seeing the numbers come down as you play.

:thumbsup:

valmes

05-06-2008, 02:38 AM

That Corvette... did multiple 8 sec passes in US (best ET=8.49)... I found it and bought it for my THEN business partners.

As for my times. It sure will come down! ;) I feel there is a huge room for improvement...

There was one run... BAD start (Heh...), BAD shifts... I was going against 2004 WRX STi which did run 12.9 that day. Well, I lost the start, then gained some lengths in 1st gear... lost some more while was getting into 2nd gear (got it from the 2nd time). Same with 3rd and 4th... surprisingly, while in gear, I was able to pull on him so hard that I crossed the finish line first, even with my terrible shifting...

Well I do feel it's quite fast for a full weight car, if I can gain 5-6 carlengths in 4th gear alone on a STi... :))) so that driver goes "Were you spraying in 4th gear?"... "Nope, all boost baby!" ;)

... and thanks for encouragement ppl! ;)