Uprated brake setup - what pads? [Archive]

Beastlee

07-03-2007, 04:46 PM

After collecting Ernie from Bal I realised I had forgotton to find the details of the brake upgrade that had been done /pan. With no paperwork it is not so easy to work out what has been done and the rear pads are down to about 3-4mm.

Bal has forgotton what the details are so I'm appealing to you all to provide ideas on what has been done. They are uprated front and rear but not to Evo kit. THe fronts have grooved discs but the rears are plain. I really need to know the details of the rears ASAP as I get the feeling they aren't working fully as there's a lot of corrosion on the disc faces.

/help Anyone any ideas what I need to be ordering?

Thanks
Lee

bernmc

07-03-2007, 05:31 PM

Commonest upgrade is National discs with either EBC redstuff pads, or Ferod DS2500's. DS2500's are the best, but they're expensive. Another option (PSBarham has these and thinks they're the dog's danglies but he's a country yokel) is carbotech - made by a chap on MLR.

Redstuff pads have a red backing plate, DS2500's are black - should be able to see them through the calipers.

Beastlee

07-03-2007, 07:18 PM

If it's the DS2500s which I know well, what car or part number should I be quoting for the upgrade?

Lee

Nick Mann

07-03-2007, 08:12 PM

Fronts are Evo IV spec - not sure about the rears.

bernmc

07-03-2007, 08:12 PM

If it's the DS2500s which I know well, what car or part number should I be quoting for the upgrade?

Lee

Just ask for Galant VR4 pads - the carriers/pads are the same shape as the standard ralliart VR4. There may be part numbers in the library somewhere - try a search.

bernmc

07-03-2007, 08:16 PM

Fronts are Evo IV spec - not sure about the rears.

He's not got EVO brakes AFIK Nick.

Nick Mann

07-03-2007, 08:26 PM

No - standard front VR4 pads/discs are the same as non-brembo Evos. The Evo IV was (normally!) non-brembo. So if you ask for front brakes that fit the Evo IV they will fit the standard setup on the VR4.

stuartturbo

07-03-2007, 08:29 PM

the pads the same as the evo iv is that right nick?
does it matter pre/post face lift to the pads

ignor that to slow

psbarham

07-03-2007, 08:54 PM

if you want a good idea about pads , have a look on the mlr , there is numerous comparisons between pads , and what i read on there is what made me go for the carbotechs , if 1 set of carbotech xp8's will last 18 months of track abuse (including the 'ring and spa)on a 500+hp evo with no fade and still plenty of life on the pads . then i'm fairly certain they will cope with a galant

bernmc

07-03-2007, 09:39 PM

White Lightning

08-03-2007, 12:57 PM

Looking at brakes myself at the moment. Currently I've got a completely standard setup with Camskill pads up front and god knows what on the rear but they are due up for a change.

I want to get something that will be up to the occassional track day abusing including Castle Combe and the 'Ring in May. I can't afford the big brake upgrade (Brembos, APs, Rally205s) at the moment so need to go for something along the lines of EBCs, "Frodos" and the like ...

What I need is:

* Better front discs
* Better front pads
* New rear pads

I have been looking at EBC on Glenn's recommendation but I am still unsure of the best setup to go for. I was originally going to go for the EBC turbo grooved (and dimpled) discs up with EBC Red Stuffs up front and standard rear pads (from Camskill). But after looking at the EBC website it seems that Yellow Stuff may be better suited for the job (and there's only about a fiver difference in price). However, if you fit Yellow Stuffs up front they recommend fitting Yellow Stuffs or Red Stuffs on the rear to keep a good brake balance.

And I am also thinking about Ferodos and these Carbotech things ....

So options seem to be:

EBC turbo grooved discs (front) + Red Stuff pads (front) + Standard Pads (rear)

EBC turbo grooved discs (front) + Yellow Stuff pads (front) + Red Stuff pads (rear)

EBC turbo grooved discs (front) + Ferodo pads (front) + Standard Pads (rear)

etc etc

Can I have some experiences of all please. My main concern is brake fade on the track ... I want something that's up to the job without breaking the bank.

Thanks peeps ...

MPBVr4

08-03-2007, 01:47 PM

I've just bought Carbotech pads for my front Brembo's having read recommendations on MLR and I think from PSB on here. Havn't fitted them yet but will post up results as soon as:inquisiti

bernmc

08-03-2007, 06:23 PM

(note that I;ve got brembos). I've still got std brembo discs on the front, but have EBC turbo grooved on the back - seem fine, but only done a few thousand miles with them so far. DS2500's all round. Never tried EBC pads on the VR4. If I didn't have a spare set of DS2500's waiting in the garage, my next set of pads would be carbotechs.

One of the problems with race-spec pads on the road is they need heat in them to get them working optimally - I'm not sure how much fire yellowstuff pads need, but worth bearing in mind. DS2500's still work well even when cold.

White Lightning

08-03-2007, 06:29 PM

One of the problems with race-spec pads on the road is they need heat in them to get them working optimally - I'm not sure how much fire yellowstuff pads need, but worth bearing in mind. DS2500's still work well even when cold.

Thanks Bern. I know about the issues when cold but priority no.1 for me is to try get something that will survive the upcoming track days without any fade ... didn't know that the DS2500's work well when cold though ...

Has anyone on here used EBC discs with DS2500 pads on a standard setup ?

And if I went for that setup on the front, would I be ok with standard pads / discs on the rear? EBC suggest that if you go with yellow stuffs on the front you need at least red stuffs on the rear otherwise to keep the brakes balanced ...

bernmc

08-03-2007, 06:39 PM

Even though most of your braking will be done by the fronts, I think you'll still cook the rear pads on the track if you stick to std. And make sure you put some decent brake fluid in.

Nick Mann

08-03-2007, 08:38 PM

Has anyone on here used EBC discs with DS2500 pads on a standard setup ?
Yes. On Kierans Leggy. The brakes did fade at the end of the session, but I discovered coming off track that I had boiled the fluid! The setup worked well apart from that, but Kieran had to change them not long after he had the car. We were both a bit gutted at that because IIRC the DS2500's lasted less than 5000 miles with one track day. Maybe I was just being too aggressive with them? Or maybe Kieran drives in a way that none of us have seen!

The rears were standard.

Wodjno

08-03-2007, 11:32 PM

One of the problems with race-spec pads on the road is they need heat in them to get them working optimally - I'm not sure how much fire yellowstuff pads need, but worth bearing in mind. DS2500's still work well even when cold.

Yellow Stuff pads were fitted to my car a couple of hundred miles before i went to the ring last Easter.. They were down to the Metal on my 18th Lap.. Approx 900miles or so :speechles

Wodjno

08-03-2007, 11:35 PM

I am now using Blue Stuffs on the front.. i have not had any fade whatsever.. They went through track day at Donnington last year to... No issues at all.... They are quite noisey though.. :inquisiti

Wodjno

09-03-2007, 12:16 AM

White Lightning

09-03-2007, 01:16 PM

Even though most of your braking will be done by the fronts, I think you'll still cook the rear pads on the track if you stick to std. And make sure you put some decent brake fluid in.

Brake fluid is already sorted. I changed it to ATE Super Blue (from Amsoil) before Donington last year. Will make sure I bleed the system again when I do change the discs / pads though ...

White Lightning

09-03-2007, 01:17 PM

Yes. On Kierans Leggy. The brakes did fade at the end of the session, but I discovered coming off track that I had boiled the fluid! The setup worked well apart from that, but Kieran had to change them not long after he had the car. We were both a bit gutted at that because IIRC the DS2500's lasted less than 5000 miles with one track day. Maybe I was just being too aggressive with them? Or maybe Kieran drives in a way that none of us have seen!

The rears were standard.

That's interesting Nick ... I wonder if the DS2500s wore out a lot quicker because of the EBC discs ? :thinking:

psbarham

09-03-2007, 08:15 PM

Whats the Part Number for these Pads for the VR4 ?
if you pm thetyrant on the mlr he will sort you a set , if you want the specific p/n i will dig out the box later :thumbsup:

Wodjno

09-03-2007, 08:16 PM

if you pm thetyrant on the mlr he will sort you a set , if you want the specific p/n i will dig out the box later :thumbsup:

WASSA PRICE ISH :inquisiti

psbarham

09-03-2007, 08:22 PM

WASSA PRICE ISH :inquisiti
about 100 notes if i remember correctly

Wodjno

09-03-2007, 08:30 PM

about 100 notes if i remember correctly

A HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNNNDDDDDDDDRRRRREEEE EEDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :speechles

psbarham

09-03-2007, 08:35 PM

A HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNNNDDDDDDDDRRRRREEEE EEDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :speechles
yes , or in railtrack wages speak , one hour :D but seriously , i was dubious about paying that much for a set of pads , but the first time you use them in anger it all becomes worth it , i've had the abs kicking in at 70 in the dry before with these whereas the old standard pads the abs would hardly kick in on wet mud

Wodjno

09-03-2007, 08:40 PM

yes , or in railtrack wages speak , one hour :D but seriously , i was dubious about paying that much for a set of pads , but the first time you use them in anger it all becomes worth it , i've had the abs kicking in at 70 in the dry before with these whereas the old standard pads the abs would hardly kick in on wet mud

I haven't had any issues making the ABS kick in with any of the EBC Pads.. But that isn't what i want !! It's Durability and Fadeless on the Edge :D

Never really had any issues with Reds, or the Blues i am using now.. Just the Yellows seemed to dissapear a bit quick for my liking /Grrr

Blues are only £70 ish..

I'll give anything a go once though :scholar:

psbarham

09-03-2007, 08:59 PM

I haven't had any issues making the ABS kick in with any of the EBC Pads.. But that isn't what i want !! It's Durability and Fadeless on the Edge :D

Never really had any issues with Reds, or the Blues i am using now.. Just the Yellows seemed to dissapear a bit quick for my liking /Grrr

Blues are only £70 ish..

I'll give anything a go once though :scholar:
i've turned the discs blue with more smoke than a rasta meeting :pimp2: but they still put your face on the windscreen , they just never seem to fade , the weak point i have now is the fluid and the crappy winter tyres

Wodjno

09-03-2007, 09:26 PM

Well that'll be the reason your getting the ABS up.. Cack Tyres.. :scholar:

Beastlee

09-03-2007, 10:39 PM

psbarham

10-03-2007, 08:15 AM

Well that'll be the reason your getting the ABS up.. Cack Tyres.. :scholar:
they ain't that cack , i've never had the let go on me , and i never had a problem with the old pads , its these new pads , they just over power the tyres .

White Lightning

10-03-2007, 10:42 AM

How reliant is the Legnum on it's rear pads? Mine don't look to be doing much based onthe corrosion pattern but the brakes are still pretty good. Just wondering if I could get away with some standard pads for the time being as I'm skint from buying the car.

Lee

You will be fine with standard pads on the rear mate. That's all I am going to get. About £28 for the set from Camskill.

Wodjno

10-03-2007, 11:36 AM

they ain't that cack , i've never had the let go on me , and i never had a problem with the old pads , its these new pads , they just over power the tyres .

Then there Cack Tyres.. /pan

Beastlee

11-03-2007, 03:05 PM

Thanks for the responses. I'll get a set of standard pads for now and upgrade when there is some spare cash. The discs are pretty rough so will probably need to shell out for them too.

Thanks
Lee

Bal

13-03-2007, 03:41 PM

lee it's the ferrodo pad/disc combination that everyone used to have but you cant get anymore. cant remember the disc manufacturer but you cant get them anymore.

Nick Mann

13-03-2007, 05:33 PM

They were National 8 groove discs. And are as you say, no longer available.

Wayne - you could be right. Maybe the EBC discs cut the pads quicker than other discs would have - I really can't say, as that was the only time U have bought DS2500s.

Beastlee

13-03-2007, 07:00 PM

OK, so for now I can just replace the rear discs and pads with standard unless I can finda good price on uprated rears.

Thanks
Lee

Beastlee

24-03-2007, 10:46 AM

Sorry to be a pain but I just realised my qustion was more about he rears and I still don't know what I'm ordering. Thet are almost metal on metal now. Can anyone tell me what I need to order for sandard rear discs and pads?

The local parts place has offered me what he thinks are the right pads at £36 inc VAT. He claims they are genuine Jap parts, not necessarily Mitsi but has them in stock. It's the same price as the Mitsi parts from Camskill with delivery but I'm not sue what the quality would be in comparison. Anything I should avoid completely from anyone's experience?
I'm yet to decide if I need the discs doing as I think the calipers need the sliders doing. THe driver's side seems ok but passenger side wasn' so good, particularly on the handbrake.

Subaru ETA

25-03-2007, 05:25 AM

[QUOTE=
I'm yet to decide if I need the discs doing as I think the calipers need the sliders doing. THe driver's side seems ok but passenger side wasn' so good, particularly on the handbrake.[/QUOTE]

what do you mean by that? particuarly on the handbrake". the handbrake dont run on the calipers it runs on shoes

Beastlee

25-03-2007, 10:56 AM

I picked up the local pads, Blueprint, as I know the name. They look OK but only time will tell.

Subaru ETA. I realised what I said whilst driving around yesterday. Looks like I'll be stripping it down further to check the handbrake shoes. I still think the calipers have trouble too and I think Bal intimated as much n a response he gave. Something to do with greasing the sliders.

If I get it sorted the only thing left is the knocking noise.

sanct

25-03-2007, 11:05 AM

I'm using EBC Turbo grooved(n dimpled) with EBC Redstuffs on the front with standard caliper and completely standard on the rear. Brakes seem balanced and v efficient at all temperatures. Think I will go for red stuffs on the rear when I change. This setup IMOP seems to be a very good first stage upgrade before going the whole hog and blinging your calipers.
Brakes hard and firm... be prepared for the indicative groove drone when hard braking from 80+ (suprised me!) now makes me smile.

sanct

25-03-2007, 11:08 AM

damn I couldn't close this window..
ignore this.
no really...

Beastlee

25-03-2007, 11:44 AM

So that's what that noise is...it still has National and Ferodo on the front and if I find I need to I'll probably put grooved on the rear too.

shane

25-03-2007, 04:33 PM

i have just put the carbontech pads in my vr4 they are very good the feels like it will stop every time you press the pedal the abs kicks in i have only every had the abs come in once before that was in the snow i have not tried any other pads but they are 100% better than the standard cack i will be getting some more of these :evilgrin:

shane

Beastlee

25-03-2007, 06:16 PM

I'm certainly looking at Carbotech pads when the fronts are due.

The rears are on and seemed ok on he brief run I did. I'm appalled at the state of them, less than 1mm on the passenger outside pad. To say this car was serviced less then 500 miles ago there are so many things that should have ben done.
I will be ordering a top bolt for the driver's side caliper as it came undone but would not come out of the caliper, causing a problem with sliding on the caliper. The passenger side was fine and both pistons seemd very happy to move.

White Lightning

26-03-2007, 08:05 AM

Well I've got a nice shiny new set of EBC Turbo grooved and dimpled discs with EBC ceramic red stuff pads sat in the garage ready to be fitted. Along with some new standard rear pads.

Will report back when they have been tested :evilgrin:

AderC

26-03-2007, 12:28 PM

Ditto. Got EBC discs and pads ready to be fitted.

aDe

thetyrant

27-03-2007, 09:36 PM

stuartturbo

27-03-2007, 09:42 PM

The best be /lol just ordered that set today cheers mate
Did see your post about the disks on MLR hope mine last long enougth

psbarham

27-03-2007, 10:06 PM

Hi Guys,
I guarantee our pads will out perform the ebc and ferodo stuff without question :) you get what you pay for :D .... however i see a few of you are using or planning to fit the EBC turbo groove discs, if you are going to drive it hard or track it beware...have a look here - http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23272

Cheers
Ian
evening ian , i take it you saw my reply on the mlr
i havn't run the ebc pads in mine , but i have traveled in a few cars with them fitted , and i do feel these are a lot more progressive and when used in anger, a lot more neck snapping :D once i remove the ****ty winter tyres and put some proper tyres on i will strap on the gtech and get some 60-0 times

thetyrant

27-03-2007, 11:19 PM

evening ian , i take it you saw my reply on the mlr
i havn't run the ebc pads in mine , but i have traveled in a few cars with them fitted , and i do feel these are a lot more progressive and when used in anger, a lot more neck snapping :D once i remove the ****ty winter tyres and put some proper tyres on i will strap on the gtech and get some 60-0 times

Yes mate ive replied for you as well :)

Ive just fitted some of our all out track XP10 pads with my fresh disks, makes the XP8 look tame!...i cant belive the ridiculous amount of stopping power for so little pedal effort and ive been running xp8 for near 3 years!...also i think they are as good if not even slightly better than 8 from cold!...yet to run them long enough to gauge disc wear/dust levels etc but so far seem fine despite there race spec although i do expect heavier disc wear due to the temps etc, might knock up some xp12 and try them next! :D

First use in anger will be at Mallory park on good friday, get yourselves along for a demo lap if you like :D

Cheers
Ian.

Beastlee

28-03-2007, 08:04 AM

TheTyrant, Can you let me know the price for a set of fronts as I can see they will need doing in the not too distant future. Thanks

thetyrant

28-03-2007, 07:33 PM

TheTyrant, Can you let me know the price for a set of fronts as I can see they will need doing in the not too distant future. Thanks

:afro:

psbarham

28-03-2007, 07:37 PM

ian , what about those brackets ??

stuartturbo

28-03-2007, 07:39 PM

:afro:

£108.10 for front just ordered a set

psbarham

28-03-2007, 07:44 PM

£108.10 for front just ordered a set
bugger they've gone up , best fit an anchor to mine to make 'em last

thetyrant

28-03-2007, 09:23 PM

ian , what about those brackets ??

Sorry Paul forgot to let you know!....i had a look but cant find them anywhere :(, they were just mock ups in thin Ally to test fit though so not the finished article. I though you could bolt Brembos straight onto the Vr4 ?

Cheers
Ian

psbarham

28-03-2007, 09:30 PM

Sorry Paul forgot to let you know!....i had a look but cant find them anywhere :(, they were just mock ups in thin Ally to test fit though so not the finished article. I though you could bolt Brembos straight onto the Vr4 ?

Cheers
Ian
only the post facelifts , the pre facelifts were deemed to exclusive to have themselves soiled by evo parts :inquisiti