Fitted my first EBC, am I missing something?

[jayjay99]

I spent the whole day fitting my Profec E-01, took ages (90% on removing the ecu clips!!!! lol) but I haven't really done anything like that before. Problem I'm having is that there doesn't seem a great difference between stock and boost.

I spoke with Wodjno over the phone and he gave me some settings to the best of his memory as he didn't have his car to check. I had the boost on Lo, manual, set = 40%, gain = 10, start boost = 8 psi. Apparently I should be expecting peaks of around 12-13 psi, but I'm averaging 6-6.5 psi, the highest I've got is 10.2 psi but that was only for about 0.00001 of a second.

Not sure what could be wrong, these are the only bits I'm unsure on: On the boost solenoid, I'm not using the NC port and thus I have left it blocked off, I heard that some people disagree either way. The old boost solenoid is left with both ports open and the electrical connector still connected, I'm not bothered about dust but could it have any effect being open sending signals or something? And I T'd the pressure sensor into where I had my original boost gauge, this was to the right of the throttle body, by the large black pipes, (see forth pic below) I've seen tutorials where it is at the back of the engine instead.
Wodjno is gonna go through the settings with me tomorrow when he has his car there for reference, I thought I'd ask on here to see if anyone reckons I've missed something.

Many thanks.



Excuse the picture quality I just took them on my phone.

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[Dan_G]

Not sure what could be wrong, these are the only bits I'm unsure on: On the boost solenoid, I'm not using the NC port and thus I have left it blocked off.



Sounds like you don't have any boost control.

If the profec is anything like most electronic boost controllers your solenoid has 2 ports and both should be connected. effectively the ports are an 'IN' and and 'OUT'. the soleniod should be placed inline with your wastegate actuator with the 'IN' side connected from your turbo and the 'OUT' side connected to the wastgate actuator.

The idea is to limit pressurized air from the turbos going to the wastegate actuator by pulsing the solenoid at a set duty, which keeps the wastegate closed for longer.

See Bernmc's excellent post on fitting an EBC it shows how I would expect your soleniod to be connect.

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22445

[jayjay99]

Hi Dan, I followed Bernmc's thread to do this install and on post number 14 about the actuator he said "They usually have three ports, of which you’ll use two. There should be two ports that receive the pressure feed from the turbo outlet - one is used for 'internal' or Normally Open (NO) wastegastes (our cars), the other for external or Normally Closed (NC) wastegates. other ‘output’ or 'Common' (because it's common to both internal or external wastegate systems) port goes to the wastegate actuator."

This is what I did, used the NO port and the COM port.

[jayjay99]

Here's an image from a ten second run I did, the thin upper line is the revs, the thick line is the positive pressure and the low thin line is the speed. The highest I got on that was about 8.8 psi at 3000 rpm

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[bernmc]

oops: edited got my units mixed up! My boost guage reads in kilopascals. controller off= 50kPa=7psi which is the wastegate spring alone. (Incidently, I'm sure it was 40 kpa = 6psi before I had my new exhaust fitted...?)

So you may have no boost control after all...?

What happens if you crank your controller up or down - any difference?

To get a decent boost reading, you want to be in tip mode, 2nd or third gear full throttle and see what you get.

[Kieran]

If you weren't getting any boost control, you'd be seeing a peak of 4-5 psi, which is the wastegate spring tension.

Really? The wastegates start to open that low? That's only 0.27Bar?:inquisiti

[Wodjno]

Really? The wastegates start to open that low? That's only 0.27Bar?:inquisiti

Wastegate pressure is not Boost pressure

[bernmc]

Really? The wastegates start to open that low? That's only 0.27Bar?:inquisiti

Got in before I edited my post - had gotten my units mixed up!

[Kieran]

Wastegate pressure is not Boost pressure

Yeah, sure I know that, but I would have expected the wastegates to open later than that - Seeing as stock boost is 0.55ish I would've thought 0.35 bar would give enough margin for safety - then again...:inquisiti

[jayjay99]

oops: edited got my units mixed up! My boost guage reads in kilopascals. controller off= 50kPa=7psi which is the wastegate spring alone. (Incidently, I'm sure it was 40 kpa = 6psi before I had my new exhaust fitted...?)

So you may have no boost control after all...?

What happens if you crank your controller up or down - any difference?

To get a decent boost reading, you want to be in tip mode, 2nd or third gear full throttle and see what you get.

There does seem like a fair difference between off and on but I'm still only getting peaks of around 9, my highest being 10.4 psi.

All the runs I've done are in auto from either a stand still, rolling along in second or from 40mph. I'll have a go next time I'm in the car.

[jayjay99]

Also I have the boost gauge mounted down near the old one, when I felt it after I'd been driving for a while it was really hot, could that have any effect?

[bernmc]

Also I have the boost gauge mounted down near the old one, when I felt it after I'd been driving for a while it was really hot, could that have any effect?

wouldn't have thought so.

If there's a diff between on and off, then it's probably doing its job, so it's just a case of getting the settings right. This is one of the reasons I chose the controller I did - one nob to twiddle!

[psbarham]

one nob to twiddle!
we really don't want to know what you do in dark car parks :inquisiti

[Dan_G]

Hi Dan, I followed Bernmc's thread to do this install and on post number 14 about the actuator he said "They usually have three ports, of which you’ll use two. There should be two ports that receive the pressure feed from the turbo outlet - one is used for 'internal' or Normally Open (NO) wastegastes (our cars), the other for external or Normally Closed (NC) wastegates. other ‘output’ or 'Common' (because it's common to both internal or external wastegate systems) port goes to the wastegate actuator."

This is what I did, used the NO port and the COM port.

my bad, I guess you learn something new everyday....

Who knew you got wastegates that are normally open?? :thinking: are we sure about this?

I thought all wastegates start closed via the actuator spring, which allows all exhaust gasses through the turbine to allow the turbo to sool up. then once spooled up the pressure builds up and acts on the actuator diaphragm to overcome the spring in turn opening the wastegate to allow the gasses to bypass the turbine and limit the boost. Thats why if you disconnect the actuator hose the car will overboost like mad. and thats also why a dawes device works.

I could well be wrong, but what advantage does having a wastegate open at low revs have?

[bernmc]

Who knew you got wastegates that are normally open?? :thinking: are we sure about this?

I think it's just nomenclature - probably best to use internal vs external wastegates. I think the NO/NC may refer to the boost solenoid rather than the wastegate - possibly the way that the boost feed links to the wastegate...? So in our cars, the boost solenoid is Normally Open, allowing boost to bleed away from the actuator. It then closes once max boost (or MAF) is reached and the watsegate opens because of the increase in pressure. I don't know much about external gates (but will read up), but perhaps they're the opposite - ie the pressure feed solenoid is Normally Closed until max boost is reached, when it then opens and activates the wastegate...?

(Internal wastegates are integral to the turbo housing, and usually have a flap valve connected by a mechanical linkage to the diaphragm/spring. External are completely separate units independent of the turbocharger - better for high boost/fine control, but bulky and expensive, and need a special manifold)

[Kenneth]

Solenoid should be set up pass the boost reference through the NO ports. This means that at 0% duty cycle (or power off) ALL the air is fed to the wastegate.

It also means that if there is an electrical fault or something fails, the chances are you dont blow your engine to kingdom come by having the wastegate line blocked.

[Dan_G]

I think it's just nomenclature -



I think the NO/NC may refer to the boost solenoid rather than the wastegate - possibly the way that the boost feed links to the wastegate...?

Phew! Right you are.... I now get what you'ze iz all on about.... /pan

btw.. great use of the word nomenclature.. :D

[jayjay99]

Sorted!!!!! :bananadan :bananadan :bananadan :bananadan :bananadan

Now comes the embarrassing bit!!! It would help if you go through the instructions to follow them properly! I'd double checked it but obviously missed it - twice!..............I had the hoses on the solenoid the wrong way round /Grrr /pan /pan

Thanks to Glenn (Wodjno) /notworthy for meeting up with me, solving the problem, tweaking it and introducing me to launch starts! /JawDroppi /JawDroppi there's me picking up the contents of my dash from all over the car!!!

Have to say this boost is 'phat' I'm now getting peaks of over 15 psi and holding above 12 psi! Coolio!!!! :2thumbsup :2thumbsup

Oh and note to Glenn, I got that fuel cut thing on the way home, I see what you mean, you end up chewing steering wheel!!! Dropped the overtake boost by 5 to 50% and haven't had it again.

[Wodjno]

Sorted!!!!! :bananadan :bananadan :bananadan :bananadan :bananadan

Now comes the embarrassing bit!!! It would help if you go through the instructions to follow them properly! I'd double checked it but obviously missed it - twice!..............I had the hoses on the solenoid the wrong way round /Grrr /pan /pan

It can happen to anyone, it's just a matter of tracing your steps :)


Thanks to Glenn (Wodjno) /notworthy for meeting up with me, solving the problem, tweaking it and introducing me to launch starts! /JawDroppi /JawDroppi there's me picking up the contents of my dash from all over the car!!!

No worries Dude.. It was my pleasure :D I'm happy when i'm fiddling, and even happier when i'm getting paid for it through ;)


Have to say this boost is 'phat' I'm now getting peaks of over 15 psi and holding above 12 psi! Coolio!!!! :2thumbsup :2thumbsup Thats nice figures and a great steady boost curve /yes A little fettilg when your used to the settings, and you'll be able to get another 1-2 psi out of it :D


Oh and note to Glenn, I got that fuel cut thing on the way home, I see what you mean, you end up chewing steering wheel!!! Dropped the overtake boost by 5 to 50% and haven't had it again.

Was you in a higher gear ? 4th or 5th ?? You've done right thing by knocking it down a touch ...

I'm sure your not going to be dissapointed with the E-01 :D


.......

[jayjay99]

Was you in a higher gear ? 4th or 5th ?? You've done right thing by knocking it down a touch ...


I do believe I was in 4th at the time.