EVO 8 DIFF fitted & working

[Louis]

The EVO 8 rear diff, or one from an EVO 7 onwards, will bolt straight in.


Remove your VR4 rear diff as follows.
Pull out the rear drive shafts from the diff (I am sure this is covered elsewhere on the forum) and remove the AYC pipes, let the ayc fluid drain out.
The brackets at the front on either side 3 bolts 17mm on each, and 4 big bolts 22mm. Also 4 12mm bolts which hold the propshaft to the flange on the diff.
that’s it take out the DIFF

The only thing I had to change was the propshaft flange as the Evo one was thicker and would not have fitted so well, so remove the VR4 diff prop flange and remove the EVO8 prop flange and swap them over, this is one big bolt in the middle.
Then fit the EVO 8 diff.

The only other thing, is I replaced the diff oil with amsoil severe gear oil, all good. I also replaced the diff ayc fluid, NOT the reservoir and bleed nipples part. I did all this before I fitted the EVO 8 diff. What I noticed is:
WHEN fitted the filler for the ayc, up high at the back of the diff is in a slightly higher position on the EVO 8 diff, so you will not be able to remove the bolt to re fill the diff when the diff is in place as the bolt will hit the rear diff bracket before the bolt of clear.
When changing the fluid you will probably have to remove the rear diff carrier bolts (2 of them) to allow the diff to drop, and then you will be able to access the filler bolt.

The rear diff ratio:
I could not find a definite answer to what the ratio was,
so this is now a definite answer as I stripped both diffs and did the calculations.

VR4 1998 rear diff crown wheel teeth = 53
VR4 1998 rear diff pinion teeth = 16.
Divide the crown wheel number by the pinion number to give the ratio.
53 / 16 = 3.3125

The EVO 8 rear diff crown wheel teeth = 43
The EVO 8 rear diff pinion teeth = 13.
Divide the crown wheel number by the pinion number to give the ratio.
43 / 13 = 3.3077

The difference in the ratios is 0.00480

After fitting the diff we raised the car on 4 axle stands and started it up and put it in drive. The reason being, that if the front diff and the rear diff were moving at different speeds this would have been shown up by the abs sensors.
This did not happen, there wer no warning lights on the dash nothing and there still haven’t been.

The EVO8 diff having less teeth means the teeth are much bigger and more substantial, as well as the gearset being different to our (or older evo ) diff. The VR4 originally has a bevel gearset, the new diff (EVO 7 onwards) has a Planetary gearset.

Which actually looks like an LSD, whereas the original looks like a standard diff (non LSD) with ayc gears, the newer diff looks like an LSD (limited slip diff) with the addition of ayc.


The diff is fitted and the car is running fine, I will update with any news as I go on.

I also bled the AYC diff myself, see my other article.

[Louis]

The advantage of fitting a later diff, and what are the differences:

The later diff with Super Active Yaw Control, is 30% stronger,
People bought evos, made some minor changes like air intake and exhaust and boost controller, took them on track and blew the diffs.This resulted in lots of complaints. So Mitsy beefed up the diffs.
“AYC has come under criticism in some quarters for not transferring enough torque to match the increased power outputs of the latest Evolution models when shod with high-grip tires and driven on race circuit or other high-friction surfaces. Responding to this, MMC developed and now introduces Super AYC after carefully calculating torque transfer requirements under simulated race conditions. Switching from the use of a bevel gear to a planetary gear differential, the new unit is able to transfer twice the torque of the current AYC.”

This was a mechanical change not an ecu change, it is not an elecronic change.
The evo 8 diff has a planatery gearset, This is different to the old bevel gearset that we and the older EVO’s have.
It is the diff itself that is mechanically capable of transfering 30% more power.
What the ecu does is control the AYC pump and the solenoids at the pump (3, the ayc pump relay, the proportioning valve and the direction control valve, this last one diverts the ayc fluid to either the left clutch pack or the right clutch pack), there is no ecu control of the diff directly (no wires going to it).
The VR4 AYC ecu will be fine, the later evo ayc ecu controls the acd (Active Centre Diff found on later EVO’s)as well as the rear ayc, but we do not require this. Our AYC will do exactly what it is meant to do and will work the exact same way with the later model diff.

The weight of the Super AYC unit has been reduced by 800 grams by switching from steel to aluminum for the clutch case and by reviewing the metal clutch disc gauge.

The EVO8 Diff that I have is the same ratio as the VR4 diff, I worked it out at about 3.3.The diffs are a different size, but the ratios are the same.
This is not to be confused with final drive ratio which is done at the transfer box and is different for different models of evo and legnum etc. There are many gear sets for models and types of evo.

How to check if both diffs are the same ratio, What to do is open the inspection cover on both diffs, look at the crown wheel and pinion. Mark the crown wheel and pinion with a bit of tipex, and count the teeth, till you reach the tipex again, it both diffs have the same number of teeth, they are the same.

The following is information that I have collected from various internet sites, so apologies for copying and pasting and thanks for making the info available

[Louis]

useful links

http://www.lancerregister.com/faq_g04.php

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/MediaNav/articleId=109902/firstNav=Gallery/videoId=20033334

[Louis]

Feel free to ask questions, cheers

[Kieran]

/notworthy /notworthy That's bloody brilliant information there Louis - thankyou very much for sharing it!

Have yourself a couple of rep points!

[Nutter_John]

I Agree have some rep from me as well

[Louis]

Should have mentioned the diff I have is from an EVO 8 FQ 320, but all the EVO diffs are interchangable. The good ones are the EVO 7 onwards.

[valmes]

The rear diff ratio:
I could not find a definite answer to what the ratio was,
so this is now a definite answer as I stripped both diffs and did the calculations.

VR4 1998 rear diff crown wheel teeth = 53
VR4 1998 rear diff pinion teeth = 16.
Divide the crown wheel number by the pinion number to give the ratio.
53 / 16 = 3.3125

The EVO 8 rear diff crown wheel teeth = 43
The EVO 8 rear diff pinion teeth = 13.
Divide the crown wheel number by the pinion number to give the ratio.
43 / 13 = 3.3077

The difference in the ratios is 0.00480


That's a bit of difference actually... I mean Front and Rear are not locked so you will be able to drive the car, but I would imagine it will take a toll somewhere else. I hope I am wrong on this one... :inquisiti

[bradc]

It is 0.145%, I doubt that makes a difference, especially when if you have a brand new 235/45/17 tyre it has a circumference of 2020.30mm, if you get 1mm of uneven treadwear, thats 2014.02mm, or 0.312%, which is about twice as much as the difference in the diff.

Basically isn't nothing to worry about, but if you had a pair of tyres with a little bit more tread, you'd put them onto the back of the car, and not the front :D

BTW, great result Louis, and great article. Can you feel any difference in handling at this stage? I might be on the lookout for an EVO7-9 diff now :D

[Louis]

hi valmes,
IU was very concerned about the ratios being out, but like I said the difference is 0.004, which isn't a lot The basic check i did, was to raise all 4 wheels, start the car, put the car in drive and see if the abs sensors picked up if the wheels were moving at different speeds!. We laft the car running up there for about 10 minutes, and then bled the AYC with the wheels off the ground and in drive. So for a good 15 minutes the wheels were turning, and No abs lights came on. So even if the diffs were slightly out, the wheels would have started to go out of sync at some point.
I also did the maths on how much it actually worked out at, (like bradc has done) and I don't think it is too much.
Again, I will keep you all updated going to do some testing in the dry today, and then in the wet (probably soon as I am in Scotland!). As I am thinking if one diff was turning noticibly faster or slower than the other, this would induce a slide on a wet corner!.
If you don't try you don't find out!.
Like I said I will keep you all posted.

PS Brad, I syuck a link in your "evo gearset problem post", that may be useful.

[Wodjno]

Excellent News Louis :pimp2:

Great Info /yes

I started to take out my Rear Diff last night(as i only found my locking wheel nut keys, last night)/pan

From the info i had gained from Numerous sources, i to had come to the conclusion that the difference in ratios between EVO8 diff and our own was negligible.. :thinking:

I be continuing with it tomorrow and hopefully get it up and running, if not it will be Thurs or Fri..

I've had the Bl**dy Diff for 2 months now /pan So bout time i got it in :speechles

Again, Great Work.. :D

Does there fell any difference in cornering or have you not pushed the vehicle yet../rally


Rep coming your way Sir :scholar: And well deserved to..

[bradc]

Louis, already replied to the evo one :)

I wouldn't worry about the ratio difference at all, I've managed to find one here in NZ for $1150, how much did you guys pay for yours?

[Wodjno]

Louis, already replied to the evo one :)

I wouldn't worry about the ratio difference at all, I've managed to find one here in NZ for $1150, how much did you guys pay for yours?

They normally sell for £500 to £800 for the S-AYC in the UK :speechles

[bradc]

I'll get him to put it up for $1k cash :)

[Wodjno]

I'll get him to put it up for $1k cash :)

And Some :speechles

[Louis]

Hi, Been out all day, put about 150 miles on with no problems. A lot of time spent in big open car parks, on full lock and bigger circles, accelerating fast forwards and backwards. Also did a lot of miles on twisty country roads, and a lot of time on some smooth surface big quiet roundabouts.
Now,
I am on a new set of 4 new tyres, so grip is good anyway (lovely dry day today and warm). But even not counting the new tyres, I feel there is a positive difference, much much harder to loose the back end, it does seem to stick to the road a lot better.
There is also the knowledge of what is there now (the new diff), which after looking inside it before fitting, it is just SO much tougher looking internaly.
It does feel good though, a new lease of life.
I'm on a real "what a car" vibe just now.

PS. I am lowered, on stiffer, D2 coilovers, so the stance is much lower and stiffer, with no roll on corners etc, (perfectly level and stable anyway) and I am on Brembos from an evo also, so stopping is much better, so the cornering is great anyway before fitting the diff, But a definite improvement with the diff, I need to try it in the wet to get more info, but I will keep puting up info, cheers for all the points and positive feedback, cheers Louis

[bradc]

ok you've sold me! S-AYC coming my way!

[Louis]

If you can find one, You could go for a diff from an evo RS, it is a limited slip diff with NO AYC, in a cast iron case, (weighty but bullet proof), you would need other bits also.
But.
The reason the EVO 7 and onwards diffs are more expensive, is because they are harder to find, as many track day racers and rally teams feel that the later model AYC diff is up to the job.
So there are not so many people taking them out to replace them with aftermarket ones.
You can also fit a cusco 1.5 way diff into the rear diff casing.
As for the diff, I feel it is worth doing.

[bradc]

Already found one for $1150 :)

[Gly]

doz the S-ayc actually work?
or doz it just act like our normal ayc?

[bradc]

judging from above I would say it works like S-AYC, considering how completely different the internal diff is designed.

btw: http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=92336716

[Louis]

Hi, YES the mechanics make it work. the AYC system is identical to ours that is why it can be swapped. Our ayc ecu controls the pump and valves exactly the same.
THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IN POWER TO THE DIFF BETWEEN A LATE MODEL EVO AND ONE OF THOSE DIFFS FITTED TO OUR CARS IS THE ACD (ACTIVE CENTRE DIFF). THE ACD IS LIKE AYC ONLY IN THE CENTRE OF THE CAR ALLOWING MORE POWER TO FRONT DIFF OR REAR DIFF (IT ONLY DOES THIS MOMENTARILY) THE SWITCH ON THE DASH IN AN EVO HAS THREE SETTINGS TARMAC, GRAVE,, SNOW.
tHIS DOES NOT MEAN 3 DIFFERENT SETTINGS LIKE 60:40, 50:50, OR 70:30.
THE SETTINGS ARE FOR THE LENGHT OF TIME THE CENTRE DIFF ACTIVATES AND STAYS ACTICE. sO THE CENTRE DIFF ON THE EVO CAN PASS MORE POWER TO THE REAR IN SOME CIRCUMSTANCES.
(SORRY FOR SHOUTING, i HIT THE CAPS LOCK AGES AGO BY MISTAKE! )

[ralliart-type-s]

I'v enever seen a car with GRAVE setting before. Is this the suicidal drift style setting?? (sorry, couldn't resist!!) lol

[Louis]

Oh t*ts, speed typing is not my thang! , and yes, the grave setting would not be that popular! lol, cheers

[Brunty]

Sounds excellent - look forward to hearing more member accounts of this swap.

[pezza]

Its simply amazing Brunterz! Truly... :afro:

[psbarham]

Its simply amazing Brunterz! Truly... :afro:
next time i'm down that way i shall have to sample a good handlling leggie in a proper colour :D

[pezza]

next time i'm down that way i shall have to sample a good handlling leggie in a proper colour :D


"...Innit" :thumbsup:

Hmm uprated roll bars next or suspension?? :D

[psbarham]

"...Innit" :thumbsup:

Hmm uprated roll bars next or suspension?? :D
both of course :scholar:

[Gly]

how is this going?? still strong?? how many miles? km's? have you covered since the swap now?

[bradc]

the diff will be fine, I'm more concerned about the transfer box life because the gear ratios are different from vr-4/evo4 to evo5-9

[Wodjno]

I wouldn't be concerened at all about the transfer box ! the ratio difference is that small, that 2mm tread difference(front to rear) on your tyres would be a lager ratio ...
Have u ever read about the diff ratio's on Landover Freelanders ? Quite interesting and amazing what manufacturers will do to make a vehicle have better handlling !!!!!!!

[bradc]

it is small, but there is still a difference

[Wodjno]

it is small, but there is still a difference
As there is with peoples tyres :thinking:

[Gly]

anyone else running S-AYC?? comments?? concerns???

[bradc]

ok, I did the sums, the rear wheels would be wanting to go 5 revolutions per minute faster at 3000rpm in 5th gear, which is over about 2km travelled, or to put it another way, the rear wheels will have wanted to travel 10 metres more in 2km.

Dunno what the tolerances are to be honest!

[Mark 4]

Fitting mine next weekend.

[Wodjno]

And if you were running 225/40 18's and there was a 2mm difference between front and rear tyre's !

Then it would be 7.5 revolutions per 2km ! Or approx 15m's !

So i take it you haven't read about the Freelander then :thinking:

[Physician]

I missed this thread last year ...... I must say I'm VERY impressed with all the work you did Louis. Congrats ..... and have some rep. :happy:

[Wodjno]

I missed this thread last year ...... I must say I'm VERY impressed with all the work you did Louis. Congrats ..... and have some rep. :happy:

Can i have some to :D

[stuey]

And if you were running 225/40 18's and there was a 2mm difference between front and rear tyre's !

Then it would be 7.5 revolutions per 2km ! Or approx 15m's !

So i take it you haven't read about the Freelander then :thinking:


I've just put 235/40/18's on back of mine for bit of extra width, and to drop the gearing if poss..

What's the deal with the Freelander diff then ??

[bradc]

and you've still got 225/40 on the front? Thats not so smart actually....

[Wodjno]

This is the diff ratio's from the Early Freelander's: 3.214:1 v. 3.188:1
The rear is the taller ratio..

[Wodjno]

and you've still got 225/40 on the front? Thats not so smart actually....

It's the same as running 4mm difference in treadwear front to rear :inquisiti

[bradc]

still not a good idea for transfer case longevity

[Wodjno]

still not a good idea for transfer case longevity

So whats the difference between the front and rear wheels over 2k on the freelander ?? I can't work that 1 out :speechles

[Wodjno]

So whats the difference between the front and rear wheels over 2k on the freelander ?? I can't work that 1 out :speechles

I had a go at working it out !! Is it approx 16m per 2km ??

And the difference from fitting an EVO 8 rear diff would be 2.9m per 2km ??

[CANDEE]

I used to have 215/55/16's on the back with 205/55/16's on the front and ran like that for over a year and about 8000-10000km with no issues at all....

[bradc]

Wodj, the freelander setup is designed that way. I do know that subaru recommended against more than 1.5mm difference between front and rear on their 4wd system, dunno what the mitsi recommendation is though.

[Wodjno]

Wodj, the freelander setup is designed that way. I do know that subaru recommended against more than 1.5mm difference between front and rear on their 4wd system, dunno what the mitsi recommendation is though.

Yes i know ther designed that way /pan

My point is ! They designed them that way, knowing that it will long term damage the vehicle.. Just for the sake of making the vehicle handle more like an evreyday car, rather than a 4x4.. They warranted there cars for 3yrs or 30000 miles.. And thats with a difference in ratio more than 5 x greater than that of installing an EVO8 diff...
The diffs do give out on the Freelanders /yes But with mileages much greater than 30000 miles..
Land Rover reduced the the difference in ratio between front and rear diffs in there later models.. They did this because of the rate of failure of the diffs, and they overcome the handling probs with upgrades to the chassis and suspension..

[Kenneth]

I would have thought the viscous coupling would handle the small amount of difference no problems.

The whole point in the centre diff is to allow differences in the rotation speed from front to rear. The viscous coupling is then employed to minimise the difference in speed, but still allow for some variation.

[Wodjno]

I would have thought the viscous coupling would handle the small amount of difference no problems.

The whole point in the centre diff is to allow differences in the rotation speed from front to rear. The viscous coupling is then employed to minimise the difference in speed, but still allow for some variation.

/applaude /applaude /applaude /applaude /applaude

[Louis]

Hi Folks,
I have now been running my diff for just about exactly 1 year. around 22,000 (twenty two thousand) miles. I have had no issues, and all is still working well. If you check through the links and the MLR register info, you can see how many times this has been done with evos. I did quite a bit of research before going ahead, and was 99.9% sure before I tried it.
But basically, I have had no issues or probs in 22,000 miles. No AYC codes or ABS codes, or ECU codes. I realise that all, or any probs may not show up as fault codes.
I will keep all posted, if I ever have probs, cheers Louis

[Turbo_Steve]

LOL...thing is, it probably halves the life of something like the transfer box, but as they last over 200,000miles anyway, you'll never know. Have seen much worse abominations than this last for years. (Subaru WRX rear diff in UK car, for example) I wouldn't worry about it: Louis...seems sensible to me.

[Wodjno]

LOL...thing is, it probably halves the life of something like the transfer box, but as they last over 200,000miles anyway, you'll never know. Have seen much worse abominations than this last for years. (Subaru WRX rear diff in UK car, for example) I wouldn't worry about it: Louis...seems sensible to me.

You was actually making complete sense /yes

Until you said "Louis seems sensible" :speechles

:scholar: :D

[stuey]

I did realise if the overall diameter was massively different font to rear it may damage the 4wd system, but as mentioned already, surely there must be some margin for differences...
My wheels already stick outside the front wings more than i'd like so don't wanna go to 235, also I think the rear could do with more traction personally..

[Wodjno]

My wheels already stick outside the front wings more than i'd like so don't wanna go to 235,

How come they stick out with 225's ?

Are they on Super Wide wheels ? Or do you have a strange offset ?

[CANDEE]

How come they stick out with 225's ?

Are they on Super Wide wheels ? Or do you have a strange offset ?

Im like that with my E8 rims - have to run 225 on the front otherwise the tyres dont fit in the guards.... :speechles

[stuey]

How come they stick out with 225's ?

Are they on Super Wide wheels ? Or do you have a strange offset ?

8" wide & 38mm offset I think, pre facelift so no arch extensions.

Not as bad as the old 8.5" Kahn wheels though.

[Louis]

[QUOTE=bradc]It is 0.145%, I doubt that makes a difference, especially when if you have a brand new 235/45/17 tyre it has a circumference of 2020.30mm, if you get 1mm of uneven treadwear, thats 2014.02mm, or 0.312%, which is about twice as much as the difference in the diff.
AS Bradc says above,

Also:
The difference in the ratios is 0.00480. (five hundredth)

Which means that the difference is the same as the rear tyres being half a millimetre out from the front.

I don't see that as being a prob for the viscous coupling to handle.
I would say that the difference is similar to:
not buying 4 tyres at the same time,
having a flat spot on a tyre,
lower tyre pressure in the rear to the front.

I honestly don't think it is a difference that anyone could say 100% that all their tyres rolling radius-es (radei FFS!) are less than half a millimetre out!!.

[Louis]

You was actually making complete sense /yes

Until you said "Louis seems sensible" :speechles

:scholar: :D

Hey!, you were having the same thoughts at the same time as me, so that puts us both firmly in the same "sensible" camp lol

[Louis]

hoorah!!, 666 posts!

[Wodjno]

hoorah!!, 666 posts!

667 actually :p

[Wodjno]

Hey!, you were having the same thoughts at the same time as me, so that puts us both firmly in the same "sensible" camp lol

:speechles I've been called a lot of things in my life /yes

But never sensible :vulcan:

Great minds think a like Eh !! :scholar:

[Louis]

Yeah!, what can we try and break next?

[bradc]

ok, I think I'll agree with the diff being ok :)

[Gly]

ive been told the evo7 diff is not Super-AYC, its just normal ayc,
S-ayc was only fitted from the evo8 onwards, althou they are the same ratio's

can anyone confirm/deny this.

[Gly]

never mind, s-ayc is evo 8 onwards

confirmed thru MLR.... http://www.lancerregister.com/showthread.php?t=191833&highlight=super+ayc

[bradc]

yep :)

[Louis]

Yep, apologies, it is 8 onwards. The reason for changing:
This is a quote from Mitsubishi:

"AYC has come under criticism in some quarters for not transferring enough torque to match the increased power outputs of the latest Evolution models when shod with high-grip tires and driven on race circuit or other high-friction surfaces. Responding to this, MMC developed and now introduces Super AYC after carefully calculating torque transfer requirements under simulated race conditions. Switching from the use of a bevel gear to a planetary gear differential, the new unit is able to transfer twice the torque of the current AYC."

[VR-4ever]

Yep, apologies, it is 8 onwards. The reason for changing:
This is a quote from Mitsubishi:

"AYC has come under criticism in some quarters for not transferring enough torque to match the increased power outputs of the latest Evolution models when shod with high-grip tires and driven on race circuit or other high-friction surfaces. Responding to this, MMC developed and now introduces Super AYC after carefully calculating torque transfer requirements under simulated race conditions. Switching from the use of a bevel gear to a planetary gear differential, the new unit is able to transfer twice the torque of the current AYC."

So all I need is the Evo 8 S-AYC diff and swap the Vr4 propshaft flange on to & its a job well done?
Also do you have a picture of what the Evo8 diff with Recognisable markers as I want to make sure the Scrap yard dont pull one on me!

[Wodjno]

So all I need is the Evo 8 S-AYC diff and swap the Vr4 propshaft flange on to & its a job well done?
Also do you have a picture of what the Evo8 diff with Recognisable markers as I want to make sure the Scrap yard dont pull one on me!

Pretty much as you say.. Although i had to make some approx 10mm thick washers to situate the diff correctly.. Otherwise the filler bolt would hit up against the diff mounting..

I'll have a search through my old LapTop(which is very poorly) to find Pics taken when i fitted mine..

Note: Louis didn't have to make washers, so there must have been a slight difference in the diffs that we used..

[Wodjno]

Also do you have a picture of what the Evo8 diff with Recognisable markers as I want to make sure the Scrap yard dont pull one on me!

Take a 10mm spanner or socket with you (think it was 10mm)

Open up the small inspection cover on the bottom of the Diff. There you will find the Crown Wheel.. Count the Teeth on it, you should have 43 teeth if it's the S-AYC diff /yes

[bradc]

All EVO 5-9 diff's are 13/43 ratio, while VR-4 and EVO 4 diff's are 16/53, so you can't really tell by that

[pezza]

Mine running well too...

Had some initial scary oversteer and snap back moments until I got used to it...the diff in AYC

The issue with the filler cap to change fluids is a bugger but its a once a year job typically

[VR-4ever]

Is there a Code on the Vin tag what will show its a Factory fitted S-AYC. As with Toyota's it show on the Vin tag/ tran axle which gives you the details you need. Or were all EVO fitted with S-AYC without exception?

If its the case all EVO 8 has the S-ayc I will pick it up, So far I want EBC & EFC & S-AYC and Galant Leathers... anyone selling these things drop me a line cash waiting.

[Wodjno]

Is there a Code on the Vin tag what will show its a Factory fitted S-AYC. As with Toyota's it show on the Vin tag/ tran axle which gives you the details you need. Or were all EVO fitted with S-AYC without exception?

If its the case all EVO 8 has the S-ayc I will pick it up, So far I want EBC & EFC & S-AYC and Galant Leathers... anyone selling these things drop me a line cash waiting.

PM Mark4.. He has an S-AYC diff waiting for dispatch /yes

[bradc]

All EVO 8 and 9 that were fitted with AYC have S-AYC. Some RS spec cars are fitted with LSD's however

[VR-4ever]

[QUOTE=WODJNO]
I'll have a search through my old LapTop(which is very poorly) to find Pics taken when i fitted mine..
[QUOTE]
You get chance to find & post those pics + I PM'd Mark 4

[phosty]

So far I want EBC & EFC & S-AYC and Galant Leathers... anyone selling these things drop me a line cash waiting.

What colour leather seat are you after? I have a set of tan leather seats that I removed to fit the Galant V6 electric ones.

[Mark 4]

Diff is £500 plus whatever the delivery costs.

[Wodjno]

[quote=WODJNO]
I'll have a search through my old LapTop(which is very poorly) to find Pics taken when i fitted mine..
[quote]
You get chance to find & post those pics + I PM'd Mark 4

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[Wodjno]

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[Nick Mann]

Just to help a bit, I missed Wodj's comment on the 10mm spacers. I suddenly had to go out half way through the job and find something appropriate!

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The above photo shows an Evo 8 diff. The VR4 propshaft flange is already fitted. Note the lugs at the back of the diff. (Top right of the diff as viewed, and just in from the top left.)

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This is the VR4 diff. The Evo 8 propshaft flange has been dropped on here just for tidyness. If you compare the same lugs on here as on the Evo diff you can tell on the photo that they extend further on the VR4 diff as compared to the Evo diff. The difference is somewhere between 9 and 10mm.

Hope this helps someone!

[bradc]

Ahh thanks Nick! I was never sure on exactly where the 10mm was needed.

They don't need to be threaded at all, just big enough on the inside to clear the bolt and about the same diameter as the lug on the diff itself, quite simple really.

[Nick Mann]

Yes, Brad. Exactly.

[Wodjno]

Ahh thanks Nick! I was never sure on exactly where the 10mm was needed.



So the 1st 10 pictures in Post 83 were a total waste of time then Mr B Radc :inquisiti

[Nick Mann]

Wodj - Your pictures would tell the same story, but there are so many I wasn't sure where to start! I took photos because I didn't realise that anyon else had commented on the 10mm until I re-read the thread. And then I figured that my photos would be easier to explain. Your spacers and their locations are easily seeable on the pictures once you know what you're looking for.

[bradc]

It was just nice and easy to see in the two pics side by side, as Nick said, I didn't know what I was looking for

[MikeKey]

Help! :huh2:

OK, I'm removing my knackered diff in preparation for my replacement arriving. So far I've got the driveshafts out of their splines, the hydraulic hoses are disconnected, and all the fluids are drained. Getting those 4 22mm mounting bolts out is proving a bit of a nightmare though!

For those of you who've done this, did you drop the rear subframe to get to the bolts, or is there just a trick to it? The front ones certainly don't look like they'd go anywhere unless the subframe was dropped as there's not enough room to extract them, and there's only enough room to get to the rear ones with a spanner and I can't get enough leverage in there /pan

Cheers,

Mike

[Nick Mann]

Hmmm..... I don't remember 4 bolts with a 22mm head? There are two in the rear subframe, quite high, bolted from the back of the car. Then there are a few smaller bolts at the front. I think a couple to uncover the propshaft/diff flange and then anoher 2 or 3 a side to release the fromt of the diff. I undid the rear 22's with a spanner. I did drop the rear sub frame a small amount but I can't remember why. I didn't completely remove the four bolts holding the subframe though.

[MikeKey]

Hmmm..... I don't remember 4 bolts with a 22mm head? There are two in the rear subframe, quite high, bolted from the back of the car. Then there are a few smaller bolts at the front. I think a couple to uncover the propshaft/diff flange and then anoher 2 or 3 a side to release the fromt of the diff. I undid the rear 22's with a spanner. I did drop the rear sub frame a small amount but I can't remember why. I didn't completely remove the four bolts holding the subframe though.

There are the two 22mm bolts through the back of the subframe into the diff, and another two through the front of the subframe into the bracket that supports the front of the diff.

I did plan on just unbolting the diff from that front bracket by removing the three bolts from either side, but the dynamic damper unit (the bit that covers the propshaft flange) is in the way of a couple of them.

This wouldn't be a problem, but the three bolts that hold the damper on are all rusted solid, which is why I figured it may be easier to just go for the two front subframe bolts instead, and deal with the others once the whole thing was off the car.

Louis did mention four 22mm bolts in his original post, though he also mentioned the six smaller bolts, so it's not entirely clear which ones he ended up undoing to get his diff out.

Reckon I'll get some more WD-40 on there and have another go at em! /pan

Cheers!

Mike

[Nick Mann]

I'd go for an overnight soak in a proprietry penetrating spray, then the smaller bolts at the front.

Good luck! :thumbsup:

[frozen]

Does the propshaft flange have any bearings or anything that could break on the vr4 diff when it kicks the bucket?? Or is it just something simple to swap over that cant really be 'broken'? Cause when my diff was making noise it sounded like a rattling coming from that general part of the diff.. Now its cracked completely (the diff)
Also, a tip for anyone doing this, PULL THE EVO DIFF APART FIRST!! make sure its all good inside. Better knowing if its all good BEFORE you fit it.. (this may have been said earlier in the thread not sure)

[Wodjno]

Does the propshaft flange have any bearings or anything that could break on the vr4 diff when it kicks the bucket?? Or is it just something simple to swap over that cant really be 'broken'? Cause when my diff was making noise it sounded like a rattling coming from that general part of the diff.. Now its cracked completely (the diff)
Also, a tip for anyone doing this, PULL THE EVO DIFF APART FIRST!! make sure its all good inside. Better knowing if its all good BEFORE you fit it.. (this may have been said earlier in the thread not sure)

No.. no bearings!

Just a UJ..

[frozen]

No.. no bearings!

Just a UJ..

Dont laugh but whats a UJ? Universal Joint? :S :S Good to know then - already ahd enough problems with the damn thing :D

[Wodjno]

Dont laugh but whats a UJ? Universal Joint? :S :S Good to know then - already ahd enough problems with the damn thing :D

Yup .. Universal Joint :scholar:

[Mr.Salas]

Dudes,
hmmm did you use the VR4 stock axles with the S-AYC??
And would a diff from a evo X fit?

[bradc]

Yes stock axles are fine.

I'm unsure about an EVO X but I've had a look under a few and they look quite different in overall shape. One may fit but I don't know.

[Mr.Salas]

Hmm i dont know but looking at some pictures of evo X differentials it looks the same as e evo 8/9 SAYC diff. but dont know

[Wodjno]

I do know that the Evo 10 S-AYC can push 50%more torque to each wheel over that of the Evo 8-9. Also the has AYC at the front wheels also /yes
As for fitting dimensions? I have no idea?

Cheers

Wodj

[bradc]

Wodj, it certainly does not have front AYC! I don't beleive it can transfer any more power from side to side anyway. Do you have any links?

[Wodjno]

Wodj, it certainly does not have front AYC! I don't beleive it can transfer any more power from side to side anyway. Do you have any links?
How certain is certain Brad ?
I read that the torque transfer had been increased from that of the 8-9. And that AYC was now used up front also.

I'll see if i can remember where i read it .. it was a while ago :uhoh2:

[bradc]

No it is not used at the front.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_S-AWC

[Wodjno]

Sorry Brad
This is all i have, Cut n Pasted from my PC.
I have no idea what site i got it from though, or how much truth is in what's written.


The drive line moves back to the proven 5 speed system for strength to cope with the new found power. The ACD gets more looks at with an extra mode - AutoX - for those tighter and twistier situations. The SAYC is further improved to carry 50% more torque from wheel to wheel and for the first time it is introduced on the front end of the car.

Cheers

Wodj

[bradc]

Nahh thats all wrong sorry! However the new Outlander V6 has AYC at the front.

I'm downloading the 2008 version of this http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com/corporate/about_us/technology/review/e/index.html at the moment. I have it at home, but I'm not at home :)

[Wodjno]

I have it at home, but I'm not at home :)

Neither am i :(

[bradc]

I still don't think it gives extra torque transfer over the EVO8-9 SAYC, and you don't need any extra transfer anyway, my car goes sideways fairly easily with SAYC!

[Wodjno]

I still don't think it gives extra torque transfer over the EVO8-9 SAYC, and you don't need any extra transfer anyway, my car goes sideways fairly easily with SAYC!

I agree.. S-AYC transforms the VR4 from an Understeery/Neutral car on the limit. Into a (If you want it) comfortable drift wagon /Devil5

[Mr.Salas]

Dudes dont know if you can help me, but i found a evo 10 S-AYC at a good price hmm will this fit ?

[Anderz]

Fitted an Evo 9 S-AYC diff last week. Must say it really changed the car, it turns and slides like a dream:sweethear
My old AYC was whining and the AYC could not be used, control fluid to right clutchpack ended up inside the diff. Have not opened it yet to see whats wrong with it but will do that when I have the time.

As fitting the diff was a lot of work I dint't want to lower it for every oilchange, so I modified the filler bolt (see bad quality picture)
I cut away about 10 mm of the tread, and half of the head. This still leaves enough tread to fasten it

That means I can easily remove the bolt and change oil withouth lowering the diff:thumbsup:

[Kenneth]

ATF in the gear oil is usually a sign that the inner oil seal is damaged. Fairly common from what Ralliart told me, but mitsi wont sell the seal outside of a brand new diff...

[Mr.Salas]

Anderz, did you had problem with one of the axles??
and how did u remove the diff?? because they told me that they have to lower the sub frame to remove and install the diff.

Don't know if someone knows , but i bought a evo X differential, the guy that is working on the car told me that one of the axles won't fit.
dont know if someone can help me with this?!?!

[Anderz]

Anderz, did you had problem with one of the axles??
and how did u remove the diff?? because they told me that they have to lower the sub frame to remove and install the diff.

Don't know if someone knows , but i bought a evo X differential, the guy that is working on the car told me that one of the axles won't fit.
dont know if someone can help me with this?!?!

Didn't have any problems the axles fitted just fine, but maybe the evo x uses different axles?
The propshaft flange from the vr-4 diff has to be moved to the evo one, as the evo flange is longer

First remove driveshafts from diff, you can do that by removing bolts 1,2 and 3 on both sides
After that you can pry outh the shafts

To remove the diff you have to remove two 22mm bolts at the back and six 17mm bolts beside the propshaft flange, see picture
To get access to the 17mm bolts you have to remove the propshaft UJ protectioncover first, thats fastened with three 14 mm bolts.
Lower the diff a bit and undo the 4 bolts holding the propflange to the propshaft, after that you can remove the diff.

[Mr.Salas]

OK, thanks.

The diff is in already just have a problem with the passenger side inner CV joint( The male side)
From what i have understand its to short.
So I have to look for a evo 10 inner CV join driver side( Because I'm searching it in the states).

Don't know if somebody on this side know about a wrecked evo 10 or where to find parts of evo 10.

[Mr.Salas]

OK DUdessssss........ It is confirmed that EVO 10 rear S-AYC Differential fits our cars(Legnum, Galant VR-4). It fits like it was made for hehe.


OK, problems

EVO 10 uses a bigger diameter axles shaft meaning that you would need to change the HUB carrier for a evo 10 one or just make the splines diameter smaller to fit into stock CV joints, this is what I did. This was done for the passenger side axle.

The axles of a evo 10 are the same length as ours, but they are thicker.

[thfelipeth]

thats pretty awesome news! good info im sure someone else around here will be next

[thfelipeth]

dam... i feel left out now.. had my first back swinging out last week (wet day) with my car after getting the gearbox rebuilt and converting it to manual.. alredy spent 5k in the past 3 months... might have to spend a little more to make it more fun lol... funny thing is i paid 4.5k for the car 3 years ago

[dcm83]

Hi. I spent the last 3 hours trolling over evo forums, sign on to this forum and I finally find something that may help me!

I have a evo 5 and want to fit a evo 8 diff in it. I haven't found a forum that has said "Yes a evo 8 diff will bolt into a evo 5". I've seen 3 evos 4-6 with this conversion done in several forums.

Back in the day when I owned a evo 4, we bolted a vr4 diff into it. So logic states if a vr4 diff can bolt into a evo 4, and a evo 8 diff can bolt into a VR4, and evo's 4-6 are interchangable, a evo 8 diff will fit a evo 5?

Any further information would be appreciated!

Thanks

[Wodjno]

Hi. I spent the last 3 hours trolling over evo forums, sign on to this forum and I finally find something that may help me!

I have a evo 5 and want to fit a evo 8 diff in it. I haven't found a forum that has said "Yes a evo 8 diff will bolt into a evo 5". I've seen 3 evos 4-6 with this conversion done in several forums.

Back in the day when I owned a evo 4, we bolted a vr4 diff into it. So logic states if a vr4 diff can bolt into a evo 4, and a evo 8 diff can bolt into a VR4, and evo's 4-6 are interchangable, a evo 8 diff will fit a evo 5?

Any further information would be appreciated!

Thanks

Yes mate.. An EVO 8 diff will fit straight into your car /yes

[Kryton]

So before I buy more stuff I don't actually need, can someone confirm ALL evo 8 GSR diffs are S-ayc & all I need is the diff itself & spacers to fit. No shafts, ecus, pumps, sub frames etc required?

[Gly]

its either S-ayc or LSD.

diff + 10mm spacers,

and the pinion flange from a vr4 diff needs to be put on the evo diff

[Kryton]

its either S-ayc or LSD

Ok, so how can I tell? The bloke selling it is going to email a picture later. Are both types filled from the top?

Am I right thinking GSR should be sayc unless rs diff has been retro fitted?

[roryfromnz]

Sorry to bring this back up, but im abit lost as in this thread it says evo 7 onwards have the SAYC Diff. Is this the case? Or is the evo 8-X diff SAYC and Evo 4-7 standard AYC ? I have an Evo 7 diff i plan on fitting soon. Cheers

[CANDEE]

it should be evo 4-7 with the AYC and then evo 8-9 with the S-AYC...

Looks like the 7 has the std ayc then.

[Nick Mann]

The Evo 7 is standard AYC but it does have the meatier crown/pinion used on the SAYC models. It should be stronger than the standard unit. Also it's worth mentioning again that the Evo X SAYC unit is not as easy to fit as the 8/9.

[roryfromnz]

Awesome, so a great spare for when i destroy my current AYC unit. cheers guys! :-)

[Mr.Salas]

the fitment of the evo X diff. is easy, but the problem sits at the axles fitment.

[Davezj]

OK DUdessssss........ It is confirmed that EVO 10 rear S-AYC Differential fits our cars(Legnum, Galant VR-4). It fits like it was made for hehe.


OK, problems

EVO 10 uses a bigger diameter axles shaft meaning that you would need to change the HUB carrier for a evo 10 one or just make the splines diameter smaller to fit into stock CV joints, this is what I did. This was done for the passenger side axle.

The axles of a evo 10 are the same length as ours, but they are thicker.

I know this post is an old one but it is the correct place to ask. Mr.Salas a quiestion as he seems to be the only person that has fitted a evo 10 diff into a vr4.
Did you try just swapping the inner cup on the from evo drive shaft to see if the roller bearing spider from the VR4 drive shaft will fit inside the evo 10 cup that goes into the diff?
by how much did you make the splines smaller on the hub end of the evo 10 drive shaft, to make it fit the CV joint, i am ssuming you mean the out end of the drive shaft.

any help will be greatly appreciated.

[Mr.Salas]

Hi Davezj,

What we did was: Remove the CV joint (Spider bearings) from the outer axle shaft (HUB side) of both VR4 shaft and EvoX shaft.
Then we had to send the shaft (EVOX) to be re-splined at a machine shop for the smaller diameter roller bearing spider of the VR4 CV joint cup too fit.
That is the only thing you have to do for both side.


I know this post is an old one but it is the correct place to ask. Mr.Salas a quiestion as he seems to be the only person that has fitted a evo 10 diff into a vr4.
Did you try just swapping the inner cup on the from evo drive shaft to see if the roller bearing spider from the VR4 drive shaft will fit inside the evo 10 cup that goes into the diff?
by how much did you make the splines smaller on the hub end of the evo 10 drive shaft, to make it fit the CV joint, i am ssuming you mean the out end of the drive shaft.

any help will be greatly appreciated.

[Mr.Salas]

Hi Davezj,

What we did was: Remove the CV joint (Spider bearings) from the outer axle shaft (HUB side) of both VR4 shaft and EvoX shaft.
Then we had to send the shaft (EVOX) to be re-splined at a machine shop for the smaller diameter roller bearing spider of the VR4 CV joint cup too fit.
That is the only thing you have to do for both side.


I know this post is an old one but it is the correct place to ask. Mr.Salas a quiestion as he seems to be the only person that has fitted a evo 10 diff into a vr4.
Did you try just swapping the inner cup on the from evo drive shaft to see if the roller bearing spider from the VR4 drive shaft will fit inside the evo 10 cup that goes into the diff?
by how much did you make the splines smaller on the hub end of the evo 10 drive shaft, to make it fit the CV joint, i am ssuming you mean the out end of the drive shaft.

any help will be greatly appreciated.

[Davezj]

Hi Davezj,

What we did was: Remove the CV joint (Spider bearings) from the outer axle shaft (HUB side) of both VR4 shaft and EvoX shaft.
Then we had to send the shaft (EVOX) to be re-splined at a machine shop for the smaller diameter roller bearing spider of the VR4 CV joint cup too fit.
That is the only thing you have to do for both side.

Thanks for the reply, much appreciated.