Dead EBC turbo groove discs beware!

[thetyrant]

Hi Guys,
Im from the MLR and hear from PSB that you guys are using the EBC stuff on your cars so have copied my post over here for you....this was after a hard trackday at the awesome Kirkistown circuit in Northern ireland last week....here goes...

Well got my cracked EBC discs off today and took some better pics see below, these have had just over 10k miles, prob 60% of those very hard abuse on track and fastroad!...still ive had all sorts of discs in the last 4 years and never had any go like this unless they were drilled, so was quite suprised when i spotted these cracks while waiting to get back on the ferry from Ireland with 140miles still to get home!. Just took it steady after that despite the fact i had done about 30 or so very hard track miles on them at Kirkistown the day before!!, presumed they were just warped at the track as it cleared up once very hot and didnt see the cracks, which must of been hiding in the caliper everytime i checked!!....very lucky they never let go in the 2 x 120mph+ braking zones!.

These early cars do heat the brakes to obscene tempratures on the track because of the tiny 275mm discs, and my modded car gives them a really hard time but presume they are prob ok on the later Evos with bigger discs, but i wont be recommending them for early cars if they are used hard on the track, fine for road use though im sure.

Cheers
Ian

[stuartturbo]

That a bit terminal but i suppose 6k of abuse is good??
Is it as price to pay for better stopping
Best keep an eye on them then.
Is that using your carbon pads as the other pads may not punish the disk to such a extent.If brake fad comes in earlier so you ease off and it cools he disks, where as the carbon pads can run hotter so will make the disk run hotter for longer??

[Spirit]

I would agree.....surely 6k of track/hard abuse is more than acceptable for discs of this price range ? And a further 4k of "normal" use on top.

I run 330mm KAD discs and have never had a set last more than 6-8k miles with a mix of normal driving and track days etc.

[thetyrant]

I know what you mean but would estimate only around 800-1000 track miles and the rest only fast road, they started to surface fracture earlier than other discs ive used which was a bad sign and it just got worse quicker i guess!

Main thing i guess is that anyone who thinks these are a high performance upgrade, think again, as per the box they come in... a 'sport' upgrade only :) much like there pads :)

CHeers
Ian

[thetyrant]

That a bit terminal but i suppose 6k of abuse is good??
Is it as price to pay for better stopping
Best keep an eye on them then.
Is that using your carbon pads as the other pads may not punish the disk to such a extent.If brake fad comes in earlier so you ease off and it cools he disks, where as the carbon pads can run hotter so will make the disk run hotter for longer??

Yes thats been running our XP8 pads, as you say i guess its a chioce either brake fade or great perfomance and heavier disk wear, i guess the main point is ive seen cheaper discs wear more than these but never crack like this, unless they were of the drilled variety...in which case i would expect it with abuse, not on solid grooved though...eek!

Cheers
Ian

[Kieran]

The EBC TurboGrooves that were originally on my Legnum at the front failed in almost the exact same way as the ones pictured. I can't say however how long it took for this to occour - they were on the car for an unknown lenghth of time.

[White Lightning]

Thanks for posting this up Ian. I've got some EBC turbo groove discs and ceramic red stuff pads ready to be fitted when I get chance. I am hoping that the red stuffs will not be as tough on the discs as your carbotechs. I know we have one member on here that has been running with this setup for ages ...

... calling Wodjno ... come in Wodjno ...

I will certainly be keeping a close eye on mine during the track sessions this summer :scholar:

[wrdmotorsport]

Yes thats been running our XP8 pads, as you say i guess its a chioce either brake fade or great perfomance and heavier disk wear, i guess the main point is ive seen cheaper discs wear more than these but never crack like this, unless they were of the drilled variety...in which case i would expect it with abuse, not on solid grooved though...eek!

Cheers
Ian
(not on solid grooved though...eek!) am i reading this wrong but they are vented drilled and grooved discs.

OK the big problem is these people just buy in blanks and put holes and groves in them with out taking note of the veins in the disc, if they don't put them in the correct place they develop heat spots and you weaken the disc (see 1 of your pics the crack is right though the drilled hole). I would never use drilled and grooved (Unless i drilled and grooved them) myself unless it was under track conditions and remove and inspect at each track day.

I used to drill and groove discs for a Aston martin db5 , Ferrari's, and other cars they where never used more than a few races even with use taking a lot of care making sure the holes and grooves where in the correct place.


Whilst I'm on the subject of drilled discs, the other big prob with drilled is they should be drilled with a radius on the edge of the hole, if not this will eat the pads.

[MPBVr4]

I've had cracking on drilled/grooved "Black Diamonds" before on a Golf, after
6000 miles and no tracks. It's one of the reasons I have stuck plain "Nationals"
on my Brembo set up with XP8 pads, on the VR4. (Still a bit squealy though)

But the way I drive they will probably last for ever/pan

[psbarham]

(not on solid grooved though...eek!) am i reading this wrong but they are vented drilled and grooved discs.

grooved and dimpled i belive

[thetyrant]

(not on solid grooved though...eek!) am i reading this wrong but they are vented drilled and grooved discs.

OK the big problem is these people just buy in blanks and put holes and groves in them with out taking note of the veins in the disc, if they don't put them in the correct place they develop heat spots and you weaken the disc (see 1 of your pics the crack is right though the drilled hole). I would never use drilled and grooved (Unless i drilled and grooved them) myself unless it was under track conditions and remove and inspect at each track day.

I used to drill and groove discs for a Aston martin db5 , Ferrari's, and other cars they where never used more than a few races even with use taking a lot of care making sure the holes and grooves where in the correct place.


Whilst I'm on the subject of drilled discs, the other big prob with drilled is they should be drilled with a radius on the edge of the hole, if not this will eat the pads.

Look more closeley :)...these are not drilled discs but grooved and dimpled :) but yes they are vented my typing error :)... i have tried drilled Wilwood drilled discs in the past and they were fine until used on the track, as i suspected they cracked through the holes, bit of a shame but all i could get at the time so had to try/destroy them :)

Cheers
Ian

[wrdmotorsport]

Drilled/ dimpled same result in my experience.

Also they take the grooves to far out they should not go all the way out to the edge.


As you can see both cracks are at end of groove or though the hole/dimple.

[thetyrant]

Drilled/ dimpled same result in my experience.

Also they take the grooves to far out they should not go all the way out to the edge.


As you can see both cracks are at end of groove or though the hole/dimple.



I agree another total crap product from EBC!, should be on the big bonfire with there so called high performance car pads, bike pads seem ok though :)

Cheers
Ian

[Wodjno]

I agree another total crap product from EBC!, should be on the big bonfire with there so called high performance car pads, bike pads seem ok though :)

Cheers
Ian

I have been running EBC Turbo Groove Discs and Pads for 2 1/2 years now, and yes they do crack under excessive conditions /yes But so has every other disc i have ever used. Whether they be Drilled, Dimpled, grooved or plain.. I have cracked them all. the difference with the EBC's is the lack of fade in extreme conditions. With all the other Disc and pad combinations i have always had fade and warping.. These discs might crack, but i have never had them warp. I have had 1 time where i had fade, and that was at the ring going down into the left hander before Lidl's. This was also just before i went metal on metal as i'd warn the Yellow Stuffs down to the rivets..At the moment i am running EBC TG Discs(same 1's i had on for the ring last April) mated with Blue Stuff Pads.. I have never had fade with these pads.. They do drone, but i can put up with that as long as they do what there supposed to do /yes
All the issues i have heard of EBC Discs and Pads have been from people running EBC Discs, but with a non EBC Pad or EBC Pads with non EBC discs..

Saying all this i am still thinking of giving the carbotech pads a go(i'll try anything once) but what discs do you advise to run with them ??

[thetyrant]

I have been running EBC Turbo Groove Discs and Pads for 2 1/2 years now, and yes they do crack under excessive conditions /yes But so has every other disc i have ever used. Whether they be Drilled, Dimpled, grooved or plain.. I have cracked them all. the difference with the EBC's is the lack of fade in extreme conditions. With all the other Disc and pad combinations i have always had fade and warping.. These discs might crack, but i have never had them warp. I have had 1 time where i had fade, and that was at the ring going down into the left hander before Lidl's. This was also just before i went metal on metal as i'd warn the Yellow Stuffs down to the rivets..At the moment i am running EBC TG Discs(same 1's i had on for the ring last April) mated with Blue Stuff Pads.. I have never had fade with these pads.. They do drone, but i can put up with that as long as they do what there supposed to do /yes
All the issues i have heard of EBC Discs and Pads have been from people running EBC Discs, but with a non EBC Pad or EBC Pads with non EBC discs..

Saying all this i am still thinking of giving the carbotech pads a go(i'll try anything once) but what discs do you advise to run with them ??

I think you will be suprised at the difference, so much so that if your not i would refund you on return of pads (providing they are not worn out!) ...standard fitment discs wise ( have played about with 2 piece large diameter as well) ive used everything from Mintex made Grooved, unbranded plain, Blueprint plain and no now the EBC TG, non have cracked apart from the EBC :)...all have given very similar performance with no warping, this i believe is pretty much a myth and 99% the vibration people think is warped discs is down to pad deposits from overheated pads.

Cheers
Ian

[Wodjno]

I think you will be suprised at the difference, so much so that if your not i would refund you on return of pads (providing they are not worn out!) ...standard fitment discs wise ( have played about with 2 piece large diameter as well) ive used everything from Mintex made Grooved, unbranded plain, Blueprint plain and no now the EBC TG, non have cracked apart from the EBC :)...all have given very similar performance with no warping, this i believe is pretty much a myth and 99% the vibration people think is warped discs is down to pad deposits from overheated pads.

Cheers
Ian

Hi Ian

I know all the Techy Stuff about the myths of warping /yes But for all those who didn't know, i thought i'd keep it plain and simple and call it warping.. /pan

So given the fact that we both know that warping isn't really warping :thinking: Have you ever suffered from warping with any of the discs you have used with the Carbotechs ??

[thetyrant]

Hi Ian

I know all the Techy Stuff about the myths of warping /yes But for all those who didn't know, i thought i'd keep it plain and simple and call it warping.. /pan

So given the fact that we both know that warping isn't really warping :thinking: Have you ever suffered from warping with any of the discs you have used with the Carbotechs ??

Ok no problems but i refuse to call it warping when it isnt, just leads to more confusion imo :).. anyhows no ive not had any problems with pad deposits causing vibration ( commonly thought of as warping :D) on any of the discs ive used with Carbotech pads, i did have problems with plain motorfactors discs and Mintex m1155 pads a few years ago though when i pushed them to far round Croft!

For those that want to know more about the myths of disc warping have a look here http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_warped_brakedisk.shtml Very imformative read :)

Cheers
Ian