Helium 3

[BraindG]

Last week I watched a program regarding Nuclear Fusion Power - Which uses a substance called Helium 3 to create pretty much polution free power.

the problem with helium three is that is requires alot of enegry to create, with the only "easy" method of retrieval is by disarming nuclear weapons. Neither option is really viable.

However.

The moon has vaste quantities available, all over the surface of the moon, the sun has been despositing traces of Helium 3 for thousands of years, this was only recently discovered from what i seen on TV, some guy figured out the whole reaction process with Helium3.

Im writting this quite quickly, cos im at work - so excuse me if it sounds a bit rushed, however have a looky at wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helium-3 (check out some of the links at the bottom if your interested)


Now, the main reason for this thread is....

If This fusion power has only very recently been discovered/figured out/tried and tested, dont you think its a bit of a coincidence Mr Bush has firmly stated that the states will be putting a base on the moon? After years of taking money from NASA, or atleast not giving them money, the american goverment is ploughing tonnes on cash back into NASA?

Additionally to Bushs statement, The Russian guy that runs the space/rocket agency there has said the same thing, and... China have stated they will be on the moon by 2015..

So.. whats you thinking? Space Race to get to the moon and retrieve/strip mine Helium 3?

one bead of this stuff can power 10,000,000 houses for one year (from memory of this program) control of the worlds electricity supply must be ontop of someones priority list!

(again appologies for grammer, rushing this)

[Crickle]

It doesn't surprise me one bit! But I'm not going to say too much in case I get FBI or CSA come crashing through my door and locking me up for being a conspiracy theorist or plant moon rocks in my house and say I'm a terrorist or something insane! It does seem a bit of a coincidence tho!

[Nick VR4]

Hmm intresting

Didnt a guy start selling moon land acre per acre a while ago due to a flaw in gov law

Would the gov have to purchase it off you if you had that land :speechles:speechles:speechles and they wanted it ??

[Lillywotsername]

This is one of Vicky Mann's specialist subjects..... We were talking about alternative fuels the other week. Would be interesting to hear her views on it.

[BraindG]

i find it very interesting - If i was Mr Billions of dollars behind me, i would stop playing war games, go defensive and get my arse to the moon and strip mine the lot, it would save billions of dollars in fuel costs, not to mention the enviromental costs as Fusion is pretty must polutant free.

Fancy controlling the entire worlds power supply :o

[Brunty]

Surely we've got to get to the moon first?

Debate of US the moon landing conspiracy (http://www.apfn.org/apfn/moon.htm)

Further proof of US moon landing conspiracy (http://stuffucanuse.com/fake_moon_landings/moon_landings.htm)

:thinking:

I'm thinking that human beans and their Governments need to understand the concept of sustainability first before we go squandering further energy sources.

Did the programme look into the per unit cost of these H3 beads? I'm guessing it's expensive.

[BraindG]

Did the programme look into the per unit cost of these H3 beads? I'm guessing it's expensive.

no, not the program, but it is mentioned on wiki, and some of the links at the bottom... its worth it from what i can understand, and by quite some margin aswell. weight vs cost vs polution.

[I-S]

He3 is a nice goal, but in the short term (ie the next 100 years) fusion is far more likely to be the much better understood D+T reaction. The required materials for that are much more readily available, and the science much further advanced than the He3 process.

Ditch the conspiracy theories... NASA going to the moon again is a large waste of time, and certainly will not show any possibilities of He3 extraction in any of our lifetimes. It's simply willy waving on the part of Dubya who wants to believe that history might remember him alongside JFK ("We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard"), which clearly it won't. NASA are going along with it because it wins them funding and people might be interested again, whereas the projects that they could be putting their money into to generate real, useful scientific results (NGST, Space elevator, etc) by comparison seem dull.

For He3 to become a realistic fuel then the existing and planned logistical systems are hopelessly inadequate. NASA do not have and have no plans for any sort of serious ability to return heavy cargo from space.

Nasa would be FAR better off putting their money into the space elevator. Once two of those are in place then the price of putting things into space drops from $200000 per kg to $200 per kg. That makes construction of larger (ie heavier) space vehicles realistic, and said vehicles would not need to be able to leave or enter the atmosphere, making them better suited to what they do actually need to do. From there, the possibilities of shipping enough stuff to the moon to actually be able to extract He3 might start to become a reality. But putting things on top of fireworks will never support that.

So, given the total lack of possible infrastructure and plans for said infrastructure, does the conspiracy theory hold up? Not a chance.

[BraindG]

dunno, i dissagree from everything ive read on the subject it seems much further ahead than the information provided in the initial program.

for example Nikolai Sevastiyanov (http://www.energia.ru/english/energia/news/news-2007/public_02-12.html) stance on the topic - althought he doesnt actually say hes going to mine for helium 3, he is mining for other resources..

p.s. One ton of helium-3 is equivalent to 20 million tons of oil.

[Nick Mann]

I emailed Vicky about this and she sent some of her initial thoughts about it back to me. Have a read.........

I’m always a little sceptical about stuff like this. It is very easy for TV programmes to give a biased view point, and a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. Yes it sounds very interesting but:


1. you have to expend an incredible amount of energy to get to the moon and build a base station etc….. and thus in the process produce a hell of a lot of carbon. Is it going to be counter productive?

2. it says that there are large amounts of helium-3 in the lunar regolith which is the layer of loose, heterogeneous material covering solid rock. How much is large amounts and is it renewable? If it is not renewable we are just putting off finding renewable energy sources and passing the buck to future generations.

3. With renewable energy sources no one country is dependant on another (e.g. the middle east for oil, USA, China, Russia for coal……) thus eliminating sources of conflict etc


Like I said interesting but I’d like to hear a balanced view of this. We had a situation about 4 years ago when carbon nano tubes were discovered and they were going to be the solution to all our energy storage problems. It turned out the researchers involved assumed the mass loss they saw was just due to hydrogen desorption but it turns out it was water, nitrogen, god knows what else and a little hydrogen.

[I-S]

The problems of D+T fusion are moreso with He3 fusion, and they're still to be totally overcome. Since the next major step in the D+T reaction research will happen around 2016-2017 with the completion of ITER. It's unlikely that DEMO (the first commercial D+T tokamak) will be online much before 2030. Since the increased temperatures of He3 reaction pose a significant increase in difficulty of construction of the tokamak, the absolute earliest that He3 might be online for any sort of commercial power would be 2050 or beyond. That's if people pushed all out for He3, which is highly unlikely when D+T will have lower cost and fantastic capabilities.

As for the russians... fine words, but they won't come to pass. They also intend to be on mars by 2025.

[BraindG]

I would have through the cost of the inital set up will also encompass things such as Lunar Telescopes and bases for further exploration of our solar system (possibly outside most of our lifetimes) rather than focusing on just extraction. Additionally the Russians have "designed the Clipper transportation system, which will help to reduce the costs by a factor of three and increase the number of passengers to six."

They have also devised apparatus to extract water from the moon, removing the need to transport supplies to a from the earth (cant find link for this though) so, from what i can understand, the mining apparatus does not just pick up helium 3, for example it retrieves a whole wealth of other miners, some of which goes off for helium 3, others into making resources for the moon base.

[BraindG]

The problems of D+T fusion are moreso with He3 fusion, and they're still to be totally overcome. Since the next major step in the D+T reaction research will happen around 2016-2017 with the completion of ITER. It's unlikely that DEMO (the first commercial D+T tokamak) will be online much before 2030. Since the increased temperatures of He3 reaction pose a significant increase in difficulty of construction of the tokamak, the absolute earliest that He3 might be online for any sort of commercial power would be 2050 or beyond. That's if people pushed all out for He3, which is highly unlikely when D+T will have lower cost and fantastic capabilities. .
From what ive been reading they are expecting D + 3He to be past experimental stage within 30 years.

[colVR4]

Space elevator??? How many floors does that go to then?

[BraindG]

Space elevator??? How many floors does that go to then?
earth to moon = 350000 miles
1 mile = 5280 feet
earth to moon = 1,848,000,000 feet
1 floor = 12 foot?

154,000,000 floors...

Top level please!

(might be US the initial measurement.)

[Physician]

earth to moon = 350000 miles
1 mile = 5280 feet
earth to moon = 1,848,000,000 feet
1 floor = 12 foot?

154,000,000 floors...

Top level please!

(might be US the initial measurement.)

Just think about walking into the elevator building and the bloody elevator door shuts just as you reach it. (Next elevator in 8hrs 32 mins)

[g6acb]

Relax guys,

we are only 8 years away from Mr Fusion where everyone can create 1.21 jigawatts from a can of Coors and a banana skin :scholar:

[Kieran]

To thow a tangent in.... Vicky mentions coal. I reckon this could be the new oil. Why? Because there's still a lot of it left.... And you can produce oil from it using the Fischer-Tropsch process. If they can crack the nut of what to do about it's pollution impact (there'd need to be a hell of a lot of carbon sinking for widescale use), I reckon He3 could be put out the picture untill the next energy crisis...

[psbarham]

Relax guys,

we are only 8 years away from Mr Fusion where everyone can create 1.21 jigawatts from a can of Coors and a banana skin :scholar:
ooh thats a point , that means time travel in 2nd gear for the v6 then :afro:

[g6acb]

ooh thats a point , that means time travel in 2nd gear for the v6 then :afro:


Back in the real world, maybe WRD could put a bit of R+D into the Joe Cell

Google it - it's mind boggling :thinking: