Dr Mo To the rescue

[BraindG]

well would you believe it!.. the car has not even been at mo's for 12 hours and hes already got the thing running!... :wow: :-b

However, there is a slight issue, the car doesnt seem to be sucking in any air.. he removed the entire manifold, and restricted the fuel entering the engine. start the car, and she runs, with a bit of fuel play..

im sure Mo will arrive in a bit to explain in further detail the ins and outs of what he beleives the problem is.. however on the bright side, there isnt a need for a new engine, we jsut need to figure out why its not sucking in any air..

perhaps turbos are f00ked? wouldnt they need to create the initial pressure?

:-D oh, where these xmas smilies come from? :p

Mo is a legend! :bow: :bow:

[Spirit]

:) Mo is certainly Barry's secret Santa !

Thats brilliant news Barry and Mo ! Just hope you can solve the air problem guys - anything to do with the MAF sensor?

[Kieran]

Fantastic news!!!

No real idea on the turbos... But I could only imagine them resticting airflow if they've siezed up and the impellers aren't turning.

Is Mo a mechanic by trade or something? Is he an undercover Mitsubishi mechanic?!

[zedy1]

just got in a short while ago

as barry stated i removed the entire manifold and checked the comprewsion and it all seems fine, theres spark fuel but no oxygen, if i crank the engine without the manifold it gets goin and you could sometime leave it runnung but it runs with abit of misfire, i looked around and tried to figure out some of the sensors and thier locations

oil pressure= just above the air con belt, this shouldnt stop the engine from starting

water sensors on the block INSERT INTO post VALUES (top of the v) and on then thermostat block=this shouldnt stop the engine from starting

ssensor on the front top rocker: some sort of ignition booster = has been replaced from my engine INSERT INTO post VALUES (helped the spark abit)

sensor on throttle body 1 = this sensor measures the throttle opening position = going to change to change it tommorrow

sensor on throttle 2= some sort of choke system= would be changed same time as above INSERT INTO post VALUES (could possibly be these sensor are buggered)

2 solonoids on thermostat housing= 1 for the fuel pressure and the other for the turbos= coundnt figure out what the fuel pressure sensor does possibly it could stop the return feed to build more pressure to the injectors, cant change these cus if you try to remove the pipes should could damage them INSERT INTO post VALUES (broke the one on my old engine)

cam and crank sensors= crank sensor replaced but the cam sensor required the timing belt removing so i left the old one on

theres anothe some sort of resister on the bulk head INSERT INTO post VALUES (fire wall) which could dtop the engine from running but that one is fine

any thing i need to check besides connections ect

[zedy1]

that was a long en

[Spirit]

Mo - any chance of a pic of the exact location of the oil pressure sensor please mate - needed to locate it to fit an oil pressure gauge at some point in the future - thanks mate

[zedy1]

ill be hard to take the pic cus its in an akward place, but will try for u once i get chance to buy some batteries for the camera

[BraindG]

has anyone got any suggestions why there would be no air going into the engine? Mo's taken the air inlet off the top of the engine, and the car starts.. bolt it back down and the car refuses to start..

cheers :-b

[Nick VR4]

Ok a few suggestion
The MAF is faulty or the connector is
Or
Maybe a pipe is not in the right place and taking off the inlet solves it

:headsc: :headsc:

[BraindG]

it could be something to do with fuel pressure, what could cause this?
high pressure, how would this be cause?
low pressure? any ideas?

[adam_shaw]

For bad fuel pressure I guess the pump has to be a start, clogged filter or blocked fuel line can all really mess things up.

With an older INSERT INTO post VALUES (non injection) engine I would just say take the fuel line off the carb, put it in a jar and crank the engine, but these new fangled thingys...

As for air? Is the sensor still connected when the engine will start?

If it is, it can't be a sensor, because even with the intake off, if the sensor was saying Yikes! no air, it would still inhibit starting.

[zedy1]

all sensors connected m8,and ive checked/compared the popes with my manual vr4,

[zedy1]

would this explain why it is flooding,

the front bank inlet valves not closing or seating properly hence exsaust fumes coming up the intake manifold chamber and get sucked in by the rear bank INSERT INTO post VALUES (no oxgen) and it chokes itself. if the intake manifold is off the exsaust fumes let out from the inlet valves on the front bank expose off into the atmosphere and the rear bank sucks in fresh air s, it will run on three or four cylinders.

does it make sense? :thinking:

[BraindG]

makes perfect sense..
give me a shout regarding the valves..
anyone know if it makes a difference having new vavles on front and old on back? do they have to be bedded in? or are they just "plug-and-play.. err drive"

[adam_shaw]

From what I remember with valves - helping my dad put a new head on a BMC 1100 many, many years ago.

Each valve had to be seated, this meant cleaning the face and the valve with some pretty nasty solvents INSERT INTO post VALUES (MEK) and then using a cutting compound on the valve and face, seating the valve, sticking a little plunger to it and spinning the thing around like mad.

If the valves aren't seated this could be the cause,

[zedy1]

when i got my last head done the engineers did all that for me, i know what you mean its a grinding compound or somat

[adam_shaw]

I guess if you took valves out and put them back in the same seats with the same orientation you might get away with it - but any small leak would probably cause the effect you're talking about.

Any one re-building a head would do this, wouldn't they?

[Nick VR4]

mmm I would have thought unless the valves we're really badly scored it wouldn't make any difference
A compression test would let you know

Are you sure you have the timing set correctly

[BraindG]

compression looks fine, but Mo mentioned something about it having to be tested in its entirety?! not sure what he meant though.

he's going to try moving a the inlet round by one tooth... see what happens.. cant do any harm trying, cos if they are buggered, then they cant get any worse :D

[Nick Mann]

If the compression test is good then the valves are seated properly. No question. If the valves are not sealing then the compression test will sow it up.

Not sure what Mo means by in it's entirety. Have all cylinders been checked?

[BraindG]

i really dont know.. give me a server and i cant tell you about it, give me an engine, and im lost :huh:

[zedy1]

okay talking about compression. theres is a compression on the engine approx 12 bar,
barry just remembered about vbj changing the lash adjusters could it be they have placed the cams where they shouldnt be for example they mixed them up INSERT INTO post VALUES (if i could remember right the cam pullys were marked with white tippex/paint did vbj do thet or the mobile mechanic INSERT INTO post VALUES (not the marks for the timing)


sorry barry got in late so i didnt get the chance to call you

[BraindG]

the tippex was done by VBJ Mo..

[zedy1]

that means the cams would have been put right

[Nick Mann]

Is the compression good on every cylinder? I don't know what it should be on the VR-4, but it should be the same for each cylinder!

I still wonder if the timing is one tooth out.

[Nick VR4]

okay talking about compression. theres is a compression on the engine approx 12 bar,


You would be very lucky to get an exact match per cilinder


12 bar = 174.0452856 pound-force/square inch INSERT INTO post VALUES (PSI)

I cant find anything on the www with a definite answer

But have read that it should be carried out on a warm engine
As results can differ from a hot and cold engine
There should be no more than 14psi between the HIGHEST and LOWEST cylinder compression readings

And a few places i found gave leakage results as well
example
CYL 1 CYL 2 CYL 3 CYL 4

150PSI 140PSI 135PSI 130PSI

CYLINDER LEAKAGE TEST

CYL 1 CYL 2 CYL 3 CYL 4

8% 10% 12% 16%

I would sugget a phone call to a good Mits garage to see if they have a the right figs

Cheers

[Nick Mann]

I guess it would be hard to do the test on a warm engine when it won't run!

I should have said that the compression for each cylinder is unlikely to be exactly the same. I have been told in the past that you don't need to worry if they are all within 10% of each other. This would be a similar figure to yours, Nick.

I feel a little helpless to be honest, as I can't really look at it to get an idea of what it could be and what it definitely isn't. Hope you get to the bottom of it soon.

[calum]

Is the cam timing OK, Mo?

Is the throttle butterfly opening?

Is the MAF sensor properly plugged in? Have you tried swapping it?

Calum

[zedy1]

yes mate tried the maf throttle butterfly opens and the cam timing was fine

[calum]

Been off the forum for a while - how did you get on with this, Mo.

[zedy1]

no luck so far, but barrys replacng the engine next month