Knocking noise from the front ...

[White Lightning]

Time to sort my knocking noise out but I need some help working out what it is. I was hoping that the noise would disappear once the new downpipes were fitted but no ... /pan

The noise:

I get this knocking noise from the front of the car when going over bumps in the road at slow speed. I can reproduce it nearly every time going over the rumble strip type speed hump at the end of our cul de sac.

What it isn't:

Nothing to do with brakes. I have replaced the front discs and pads this weekend and all bolts etc are tightened to the correct torque.

Nothing to do with wheels. I have tried swapping the wheels on the front for different wheels. Still there.

Nothing to do with downpipes. They have been replaced this weekend.

Nothing to do with shocks/springs (I don't think) as Andy and I had them all off recently to swap the springs.

Lower, rear engine mount recently replaced.

All recall work on the suspension has been done.

What I am thinking:

Is that it could be steering related. I have seen a lot of talk about tie rods and tie rod ends recently. I have no record of any of this ever being touched. Trouble is I have no idea how to check for play etc?

Can anyone suggest what I should look for / try . And anything else this may be. :inquisiti

[BraindG]

This weekend i took the following off my car, previously i didnt have a knocking noise... now i do.

Lower Assemble arm (only from engine and suspension, the balljoint remained attached to hub)
L Shape Lower Arm (only from chassis, not from Hub)
Brake disc & Caliper (all in one go)
Removed driveshaft.
drop link (only top bolt)

thats all i done, and now i have a knocking noise going over bumps.. again, i didnt have the knocking noise prior to removing these parts... i did check everything, but i have a feeling it will be the drop link tbh, i dont remember making it all that tight. with the amount on tension going through it, i recon with a mm, or half a mm of slack it could potentially make a kno9cking noise.

[White Lightning]

Lower Assemble arm (only from engine and suspension, the balljoint remained attached to hub)
L Shape Lower Arm (only from chassis, not from Hub)
Brake disc & Caliper (all in one go)
Removed driveshaft.
drop link (only top bolt)



I remember we undid one end of the droplinks when we swapped the springs over but the noise was there before and after that.

Any idea how I can check for play in the drop links? :inquisiti

Hope it's nothing to do with the driveshaft ... :speechles

[BraindG]

I remember we undid one end of the droplinks when we swapped the springs over but the noise was there before and after that.

Any idea how I can check for play in the drop links? :inquisiti

Hope it's nothing to do with the driveshaft ... :speechles
the way i do things is I use the pole from my trolly jack.. i then wedge this aboev the anti roll bar, and under a lip on the chassis.. its quite obvious when you see it, the lip is just above the anti roll bar.

now, stick pole in there, and push down to remove the tension. then either, wiggle the drop link... or.. stick a 14 mm spanner on the bolt at the back, and make sure it rests on the steering rod thingy... then using a 14mm socket try to tighten it up.. the 14mm spanner will wedge against the steering rod thingy, allowing you to use one hand to keep tension off drop link, and the other to tighten up the front drop link bolt.

[pitslayer]

if your droplinks are gone, you can see there knackered as the rubbers will be gone in them, also jack the front end of the floor both wheels of the ground....then grab hold of the tyre and move it side to side, dont steer it, but do a bearing test on it sorta of movement, if your wheel feels a bit sloppy and clicks a bit, this could be your steering rack ends
also check to see all the plastic cowling in the arches are in good condition, one of mines recently snapped and makes an irrtating slapping on the inner arch lol
just check all bushes on front end, could even be an engine mount on its way out

[White Lightning]

if your droplinks are gone, you can see there knackered as the rubbers will be gone in them, also jack the front end of the floor both wheels of the ground....then grab hold of the tyre and move it side to side, dont steer it, but do a bearing test on it sorta of movement, if your wheel feels a bit sloppy and clicks a bit, this could be your steering rack ends
also check to see all the plastic cowling in the arches are in good condition, one of mines recently snapped and makes an irrtating slapping on the inner arch lol
just check all bushes on front end, could even be an engine mount on its way out

I would say the rubbers on the droplinks are fine but I will double check.

That's where I struggle with knowing what amount of play is acceptable... do you lock the steering when doing the wiggle test with the wheels off the ground?

My plastics are in a bit of a state to be honest. The big plastic piece that goes across the bottom of the car (covering the oil filter area) is missing - never been there since I've owned the car. And both front wheel arch liners have got the huge holes in them from rubbing on the wheel. I have tried removing the drivers side wheel arch liner and that made no difference to the noise but perhaps I should remove the piece that goes up in front of the pulley area. Actually ... I think I will just remove all of them and see if it makes any difference ...

[BraindG]

id firstly double check the drop links, i know you said it was there before... but was it exactly the same noise, and as frequent or easy to replicate?

If it was there before all of this work you done, is there anything that wasnt removed/swapped or undone which has movement?

[White Lightning]

id firstly double check the drop links, i know you said it was there before... but was it exactly the same noise, and as frequent or easy to replicate?

If it was there before all of this work you done, is there anything that wasnt removed/swapped or undone which has movement?

It was definately there before this weekend. In fact, I would say that it's been there for months possibly even before the engine went in. I tried to reproduce it for Andy once but it was having none of it ... I had Kate listen to it once from outside the car whilst I drove backwards and forwards over said rumble strip and she thought it sounded like the exhaust ... but then she's female /pan :scholar:

Perhaps it's the cat and fitting a decat will fix it /haz

[BraindG]

Where does it sound like its coming from inside the car, both sides? left right?

what happens when you pushing the car up and down from the arch.. you know like when your "testing" suspension..


forwards over said rumble strip and she thought it sounded like the exhaust ... but then she's female /pan :scholar:

lol, incoming pan! watch you head!



Perhaps it's the cat and fitting a decat will fix it /haz
hehe, any excuse.

[Physician]

I used to get a 'dead clunk' from the front when I had my issues a couple years ago .... here's a pic of damaged/worn part - yellow arrow.

uploaded/850/1177338691.jpg

[White Lightning]

Where does it sound like its coming from inside the car, both sides? left right?

what happens when you pushing the car up and down from the arch.. you know like when your "testing" suspension..


lol, incoming pan! watch you head!



hehe, any excuse.

I would say that it's coming from the drivers side of the car but then it's always difficult to tell with these sort of noises. I really need someone I can trust to drive backwards and forwards over the rumble strip so that I can listen for myself from outside the car. Have got the Ka today as we are going shopping in Reading tonight after work but I will keep my ear to the ground (as it were) on the way to work tomorrow. I really was hoping it would go when I fixed the exhaust ... :smash:

No incoming pan from Kate - she never comes on here ... :scholar:

[White Lightning]

I used to get a 'dead clunk' from the front when I had my issues a couple years ago .... here's a pic of damaged/worn part - yellow arrow.


Thanks Rich. Will have a look at that. Keep the ideas coming folks ... :iloveyou:

[The Vee]

Check your front anti roll bar bushes.

[White Lightning]

Check your front anti roll bar bushes.

Good idea mate ... Have not looked at them at all ...

[pitslayer]

right ive included an expertly photoshopped picture handcrafted with my expert photoshopping skills, of a wheel

red parts, grab alloy where red areas are.....then dont turn the steering, but pull your one hand towards you and push the other away, in a rocking sort of motion, if theres any play, its your rack ends
basically if the rubber on your drop links doesnt look that good replace them, this will also help

the plastic bits were the bottom parts, one of mine is snapped in the bottom part where the gearbox is, and it slaps like mad.......

perished rubber is easy to spot, looks black/grey, and the surface is cracked like, if its cracked replace them

[White Lightning]

right ive included an expertly photoshopped picture handcrafted with my expert photoshopping skills, of a wheel

red parts, grab alloy where red areas are.....then dont turn the steering, but pull your one hand towards you and push the other away, in a rocking sort of motion, if theres any play, its your rack ends
basically if the rubber on your drop links doesnt look that good replace them, this will also help

the plastic bits were the bottom parts, one of mine is snapped in the bottom part where the gearbox is, and it slaps like mad.......

perished rubber is easy to spot, looks black/grey, and the surface is cracked like, if its cracked replace them

Thanks :thumbsup:

Will have a good look when I get chance. Probably the weekend now ...

[RugbyPete]

Steering Rack end.

We have rumble strips at aston, it will do it every time. Seems like its drivers side wheel but as it gets worse it becomes apparent where the noise is coming from.
Now mines so worn i hear it everytime im in the car, any ripple in the surface and is "clonky clonk clonk"

I had play on the wheel too (grip wheel both hands, pull left and right hand alternatively for horizontal play). On inspection one track rod end had play and the other was dry, meaning that one would soon be knackered too.

Parts being ordered today, about £80 total, about the same price as one rack end from mitsubishi!

[BraindG]

Parts being ordered today, about £80 total, about the same price as one rack end from mitsubishi!
Out of interet wheres this from?

[RugbyPete]

camskill

[Eurospec]

Well here is my 2p- not exhaustive, but the most frequent ones i see.

Clonky clonk clonk loud- ie 'the double tap' when going over bumps is very often the top mounts.

Rapid clclclclcclonk, VERY warn track rod ends or track rod iner joints. They are rearlly gnarly normally before you can hear them. Shake test as described by pitslayer will determine wear in these. Basically if you can feel play in them (you will know if you do) then change them.

Single clonk, ARB's or drop links. ARB's will have appreciable movement in them when they clonk. Get hold of the arb and yank it about, if its moving (ie sliding through the bush) its not long before the clonking starts. On drop links get hold of it and twist it. It should be pretty stiff, not floppy. Then pull it in/out from its fixing points. Any movement this way and its goosed. I've seen even year old drop links that are mullered.

Boinklunk or clboink, springs binding and snapping back in the spring cups. New AVO's are doing this (they changed suppliers), as do the Fake Teins you can get cheap on ebay. Eibachs have a reputation for it, and so consequently i dont see many of them!

Hopefully that helps!

Cheers,

Ben.

[White Lightning]

Thanks guys. Having read Ben's post I would say I have got the "Rapid clclclclcclonk" and whatever it is does seem to be getting worse over time. Realistically, I won't get chance to get it up on the stands until Saturday now as we are heading back to Cornwall for a funeral tomorrow night. But, I still have one question. When doing the "wiggle" test as kindly described by pitslayer, do I have both front wheels off the ground and the steering locked? Last time I tried this the wheel just turned as the steering was not locked ... or do I leave the other wheel on the ground?

Sorry for the dumb ass question ... /pan

[BraindG]

one will do Wayne.

[White Lightning]

one will do Wayne.

:thumbsup:

That's where I went wrong last time then ... /pan

[RugbyPete]

lol love the noise descriptions

Take it to two garages for a quote, you'll have your answer, then get some cheaper to do it!

[White Lightning]

Actually been out lunchtime with a work colleague and had a listen. I was able to reproduce the noise driving over a small lip into the work car park he jumped out but could not hear the noise outside the car ... which makes me think it may not be track rod ends ...

In fact, the more I hear it the more it sounds like a metal / tinny type noise like a heatshield or metal pipe ... this is what made me original thing it might be the exhaust ... :thinking:

So I guess turbo heatshields also need checking ...

[BraindG]

hmmm, well if you recon it was there before engine was put in, we can narrow down search to things not removed in the process.

what about if somethings fallen down into the wing? - say when your arch covers were off, or say one of the plugs under the flaps is loose, perhaps hats banging against panel?

?

[Physician]

Lol ........ I think we need a 'Sound Library'.

Anyone who has a fault in future should record the sound so that we can identify it in the Library! /pan

[White Lightning]

hmmm, well if you recon it was there before engine was put in, we can narrow down search to things not removed in the process.




I'm not so sure now ... :inquisiti

[pitslayer]

you just want to grab the alloy and move the alloy wheel itself on the hub, not turn steering.....ive done it with both wheels of ground and even car on ramps, what......just grab like show on picture, and rock the wheel back and forth,
as your left hand comes towards you, your right should be pushing away, then before the wheel starts to turn, pull your right hand towards you and push your left hand away.......
although if your moving your steerin im going to take a guess that your rack ends are ok, but check anyways......so i would get and check droplinks......also check perhaps engine mount rubbers, does your gearstick move back and forth when changing first to second. or just in first, but i cant see that causing a knocking as such.....
and check that everythings done up

[White Lightning]

does your gearstick move back and forth when changing first to second.

Mine is a tip ... :scholar:

[The Vee]

I'm not so sure now ... :inquisiti

:speechles

Pick a nice day, choose a burger venue to your liking, and get it up here for the day. Oh and bring a large hammer just incase it won't reproduce the noise/pan /pan :evilgrin:

[White Lightning]

:speechles

Pick a nice day, choose a burger venue to your liking, and get it up here for the day. Oh and bring a large hammer just incase it won't reproduce the noise/pan /pan :evilgrin:

Good man :thumbsup: :iloveyou:

I'm sure between the two of us we can sort it ...

[White Lightning]

Damn thing is doing my head in now. /Grrr

Kate and I have just spent the last 20 minutes driving backwards and forwards over the same rumble strip in my road listening to this noise and it's definately getting worse. The funny thing is it only does it when turning left and going over the bumps or going straight over the bumps. It's worse when turning left but makes no sound when turning right and driving over the same bumps. The noise appears to be louder on the passenger side but can be clearly heard from both sides outside of the car (it is that loud now).

I replaced the front anti roll bar bushes yesterday and they were not the cause of the noise (the old ones weren't too bad but there was no harm in replacing them - one had a small crack). I did have a look at the droplinks whilst they were out and one appeared fine but the passenger side one appeared to not wiggle properly on one end. It was a bit stiff. I did remove the metal clip and check for grease and it appeared well greased but did not move easily side to side.

So, current plan is to get some new droplinks from Camskill. But what I don't get is if it is the droplink why does it only make the noise turning left and not when turning right ??? :inquisiti

This is making me think it's still steering related. I may decide to order some new track rod ends and do them at the same time ...

or is it possible this is CV joint related ??? :inquisiti

[BraindG]

hmmm, well bear in mind that the whole hub will move when turning left so imagine what the drop links doing, vs when it turns right.. whether its the cause for your knocking i dont know..

hopefully all my replacement bitties will get rid of mine.

[Beastlee]

This sounds just like the problems RugbyPete and I are experiencing. He's had a whole load of parts done and still nothing despite heavy invstigation. I have personally investigated it and we evn had it rolling back and forth on a 4 post ramp whilst someone stood underneath checking from the inside and couldn't work it out.
Try this test if you can and let me know the results :

1. Ensure you have a clear stetch of straight road.
2. Engage reverse gear and allow the car to start creping back.
3. When the car is at a constant speed at idle apply the footbrake firmly and listen for noise.
4. Quickly release the footbrake and listen for noise again.
5. Repeat its 3 and 4 in quick succession, you should be clonking in and out.

The other thing I can get it clonking is:

1. Drive car normally and apply braks to stop normally, maintaining foot brake.
2. Knock box into neutral, still with foot brake.
3. Wait a few seconds and return box to drive.
4. Release footbrake and apply slight acceleration.

This can sometimes generate a clonk combined with a delay on taking up drive.
Woul dbe interested to see your results as this is becoming a common fault on these cars.

Just an afterthought....RugbyPete has a Galant V6 not a VR4, what is common on both for suspension/steering? Surely not all of it.

[White Lightning]

Well it's not that droplink ... /Grrr

I have just been out and swapped the two droplinks over, side to side. Noise was still there and did not seem to have moved. Just to prove the point I then removed the suspect droplink completely and tried the test again without it even fitted. Noise still there.

Just had my neighbour, who is a mechanic at a local tyre / MOT place take a look (he is an MOT tester) and even he is stumped. We ended up with me driving back and forth over the rumble strip, whilst turning left, with the bonnet up.

The noise definately is coming from the left hand (passenger side) of the car and appears to be more central to the engine bay. Sort of in line with the washer jet but lower down. My money at the moment is on the tie rod at the steering rack end. But that's really still a guess as I can't feel any play in it ...

Beastlee - I will try those tests. Probably not tonight now though as I've had enough of the thing for one evening ... /pan

[White Lightning]

Just been reading loads of old threads about steering racks and it seems very likely that my problem is the steering rack ends (not track rod ends). a) given how old the car is and I have no record of them every being changed and b) they seem to be a common fault on VR-4s/Galants. The problem is I can't seem to feel any play in the wheel ... perhaps the wheel has to be on the ground to get the play ? :inquisiti

[Beastlee]

Like I say, Rugbypete just got a load done including the track rod but it hadn't gone. My only thought for him was that he had done the wrong side. It doesn' explain the fact it clunks when applying and releasing the brake as in my first test.
I'm going to err on the side of caution for now and see if anyone else resolves it by doing the track rod.

[White Lightning]

Well, I have been doing a bit more investigating today in between the rain showers and taking Kate out for a pub lunch ... /pan

Went to bed last night convinced it must be something to do with the steering rack end. So, this morning I jacked the front passenger wheel up and checked for play again with the wheels straight and the wheel on full left lock. And there is a very, very small amount of side to side play and no top to bottom play at all. Nothing to really suggest anything is wrong in that area ... :thinking:

One phone call to one of our resident experts later and it was up on the jacks again. This time to check the driveshafts. So, I checked for play by wiggling the nearside driveshaft up and down and thought ahhh ... there's some play here ... the gearbox end of the driveshaft was definately moving - I could hear it. So, I decided to check the drivers side and if anything that was worse ... so I am still baffled ... :inquisiti

Also, started noticing today that when I pull away and turn the steering wheel sometimes I get a slight clonk. Not sure if this is related or not though ...

I have actually got to the point now where I am just thinking about sticking into a garage for them to have a look at. At the moment I am a little concerned about hairing around Combe and 'Ring with something that could potential break at any time ...

/Grrr

[Beastlee]

I found my driveshafts rattled around a fair bit wen checking them and had a small heart attack when I saw the prices to fix an inner CV.
If I had he money I might send it in to a garage but it's been tested 3 times by experts and nobody could provide an answer so I think it would be wasted.
II get a clonk when braking on full right lock but nothing wen turning the wheel when pulling off, that just seems to generate a TCL light ;)
Did you manage to try my tests at all?

[White Lightning]

Did you manage to try my tests at all?

No, not yet. Was too busy wiggling and yanking stuff yesterday ...

I have woken up today with a more positive attitude. I have realised that the slight clonk when turning has only started since I have moved the slightly knackered droplink to the drivers side and given the type of noise it is and where is comes from I am sure it's this. So, I have called Camskill today and ordered some new front droplinks ...

I don't think there is much point sticking it in a garage as I think I know the car reasonably well now and I am not sure what they would check that I haven't.

My latest theory is that the knocking noise is actually the gearbox casing hitting the gearbox cradle (the big black thing that the towing eye is attached to). My gearbox cradle is already quite bent from where the car has been jacked on it in the past and I remembered this morning that although we changed the rear lower engine mount, the front lower engine mount has not been renewed and has seen better days. I think the fact the mount is a bit weak coupled with the fact the cradle is a bit bent may be the cause of the noise ... we did notice that the engine moved around a lot when we were driving over the rumble strip with the bonnet open.

Well, that's the latest theory anyway ... /pan

[RugbyPete]

I'm heading towards the bottom ball joint and, if it exists, any anti-roll bushes under there.
Thing is, it could take a heck of a lot of weight to make anything move under there when jacked up.
It does feel like the lower track arm bush, and feels like theres literalyl only half a bush left, giving back and forth movement, and worse noises sometimes than other.
The steering rack has just one more adjustment bolt (hard to get to so wasnt tightened any more) that could help, but the rack ends on mine had no play so i wouldnt hold out on that one producing much.

Either way, i think im going to get a free quote out of mitsubishi - see what they have to say!

[RugbyPete]

Mechanic confirmed £100 for the tracking, rack ends and track rod end labour plus an afternoon trying to find the issue.

He's not so sure its the ball joints cos you could feel the rack pulse when the noise was made.

He did suggest trying to tightening the other bias screw but I need to confirm the size of the hexagon plug . It looks about 19 mm Across Flats . it needs a lump of hex bar end or a bolt with a few nuts on it as it quite a large size adaptor

[White Lightning]

Well my theory was correct and I have pinpointed the problem ... :scholar:

The gearbox casing is knocking against the "centremember". Centremember is the Mitsi technical term for what I would call the gearbox cradle. Basically, on mine the centremember is a bit distorted where someone has jacked the car on it in the past. As a result when the engine/gearbox bounces it is just knocking against the centremember. Also, I remembered that the front "roll stopper" also could do with replacing. So ...

Saturday I removed the centremember and there was evidence that the gearbox had been making contact (paint scratched and small dents in centremember). So firstly I decided to just replace the "roll stopper" at the front with a new part. Took the car out for "the test" over the rumble strip and although the noise was still there it was somewhat quieter and happened less often. This was not a surprise as you as it's actually the top engine mounts that take the weight of the engine and you could still see that that the gearbox was almost resting on the centremember.

Sunday I decided to confirm the problem for sure. So I removed the centremember again and stuck some thin padding on to the centremember where the gearbox was fouling. Tested again and the noise was gone.

Decided to wait until today when I had done the drive to work (and the turn into the work car park where it always knocks) and the knocking noise has definately gone ... :happy:

So not completely fixed but worked around for now ... the proper fix will be to replace the centremember with a new part. And if that does not solve it completely some new (load bearing) top engine mounts may be in order as these are the ones that actually affect the "hanging height" of the engine.

So my advice to other people ... get your engine mounts checked and make sure your centremember is not bent ... :thumbsup:

[MPBVr4]

A 3lb lump hammer should do it! :smash:

[White Lightning]

A 3lb lump hammer should do it! :smash:

Has been considered Malc ... but I don't think you could ever bend that thing back into shape !

[WildCards]

Good call Wayne, i'd hate to think my centremember was bent :p

[Nutter_John]

Good call Wayne, i'd hate to think my centremember was bent :p

no steve it's just your whole body is bent :p

[WildCards]

I resemble that remark :drummer:

[White Lightning]

Good call Wayne, i'd hate to think my centremember was bent :p

/haz ...

[Beastlee]

Will have to investigate mine now as I always find it makes the noise when the load is applied and removed to the mounts. If it is weak mounts it should improve response when replaced. Good work!

[BraindG]

ah, great! love it when a plan comes together.

good to hear youve sussed it, pain in the arse to hear you need to replace the cross mem, but hey!..

now go get your cash back from mitsi with the anti roll bar :p

[Spirit]

Great news Wayne......well done mate......but just don't ask about the refund from Mitsi /Grrr

[White Lightning]

now go get your cash back from mitsi with the anti roll bar :p

Oh yeah ... barstewards ... they would not give me a refund. Apparently because it was a special order item that they got in from Japan and Mitsubishi UK do not stock it they will not give a refund. Even got them to take this up with the dealership manager. But even given the ££££ of have spent down there this year they would not help ...

/Grrr

The result :

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MITSUBISHI-GALANT-LEGNUM-VR-4-ANTI-ROLL-BAR-STABILIZER_W0QQitemZ230130110163QQihZ013QQcategory Z10400QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Anyone want a brand new VR-4 anti roll bar ... :deal2:

[Eurospec]

Glad you got it sorted mate.

So are you thinking about polly mounts now?! Good opportunity if you are taking the x member off!

Cheers,

Ben.

[-=white-zombie=-]

sorry to bring up an old thread but i have found somthing that may be a common problem on alot of legnum/galants
my vr4 had this clunking noise from front drivers side for ages, it would only happen at low speeds over bumps or in reverse and applying foot brake, i had replaced rack ends and tie rods etc made no difference, then finally today i found what it was, its the lower curved arm balljoint, to see it doing this you need another person jiggling the steering wheel and you can see and hear it moving... replaced lower curved arm and all noise is fixed no more clunk/rattles... the old arm balljoint was pretty stuffed...

[Beastlee]

I suspected that part on my old car and I think Pete had to replace it in the end. The current one does the same thing but I also have knackered engine mounts.

Can anyone tell me if the curved one is the one we need to avoid from Camskill as I may as well do that job whilst I'm doing the others.

[White Lightning]

Yes Lee, that is the one that I would suggest avoiding from Camskill.

It's funny this has been brought up as when mine was up on the ramps at Eurospec last week we spotted that the rubber bushes on these arms on mine are just starting to crack. They will be OK for the 'Ring next month but could do with being replaced at some point in the future.

A job for later or next year methinks /yes