ICE suggestions

[Spirit]

Right, time to consider some new ICE.

Shaz and I had a nosey around today and some big prices out there. Need some suggestions on best deals/quality etc for the following:

1: Had posted elsewhere about a double din set up - this is now OUT!
2: Don't want to go OTT but here are the basic guidelines

Headunit - maybe with a motorised screen if can plug laptop into it to play DVD's
Sub - not too big and reasonable price
Amp - is this required if a decent head unit is purchased ? If so then what ?
Headrest screens - to allow use of a PS2 or laptop again ?

Of course I will probably have to upgrade the original speakers too, so just stick to same brand as headunit INSERT INTO post VALUES (e.g. Pioneer/Sony etc) or is there better?

Loads of questions sorry.

[SGHOM]

sorry Pete, cant help you on that one. ICE is just not my scene. you can have as much power as you want coming through £1000's of din's, head units, speakers etc. but radio is radio. Sara cox wont sound any better. ;)

[Nick Mann]

Power is usually a good thing to check, but make sure it is quoted as RMS per channel.

My Pioneer has a MOSFET power amp, which I believe gives a better sound, but I don't suppose they are the only people who do it.

The front speakers in my car are still original - the quality seems pretty good and copes with power from good head units. The rears are upgraded to Infinity's. There is no rule about speakers, with the exception of as price goes up build and sound quality tends to as well! The best thing to do is wander round some shops and listen to a wide range of speakers. The brand name really doesn't matter that much - the cone material, magnet quality and size and the frame design are far more important! Try and get speakers with power handling not too far away from the input that the amp/head unit is going to give them.

You will need an amp for the sub INSERT INTO post VALUES (some are built in to the sub). Whether you want one for the rest depends on how much you are spending. Make sure the head unit has pre-out connections, as wiring power amps on to speaker outputs tends to reduce the signal quality and therefore the quality of the sound. If you have reasonable speakers and a good head unit the amp is not necessary for loud volume and good quality. If you want Mega volume and Untouchable quality, then the Amp is a must.

My advice is to shop around INSERT INTO post VALUES (probably in early Jan!) and listen to the sound quality from various mixes of head units and speakers. Take a cd with a track or tracks you know really well and it becomes easy to compare.

Sorry for the essay, and Good luck!

[enigma]

I went shopping for an amp yesterday to drive BDAs MMCS replacement........the spotty oik in the shop refused to show me anything less than a multi mega watt unit. Christ all I want is a cheap 6 channel amp to power my standard speakers. ICE is hard, there is so much to choose from, but as Derek said at the end of thee day radio is just radio. Fair enough if you set up a soundproof room at home and you are a complete audiophile then you can justify spending a few quid. In a car environment you will never get the best out of the music due to road noise etc.....oh and you cant get too immersed in it as you ought to concentrate on driving! If you want to show your car then fair enough put 42 amps in it and deafen everyone in a 300 mile radius. I believe for everyday driving £3-400 is more than enough to spend!

Just my opinion of course!

[Brind]

You say you don't want to go too far, how far is too far? Zedy stage?

You'll find the sound quality will be quite similer within a same brand so find a brand you prefer the sound of.
Sony aren't really noted for ICE and many enthusiasts won't touch them at all although they will highly rate other Sony electronics.
Look for Headunits with plenty of gadgets and gizmos and loads of connectivity as that way you can keep upgrading if you wish.

One of my main choices would Kenwood, their ICE looks great and usually have plenty of features! and overall sound quality is pretty good.
Alpine make excellent headunits although IMO look crappy but they are one of the best sounding systems you'll get.

Many enthusiasts will remove or disconnect any other speakers in the car and just leave the fronts, this is because of sound staging, they say if you want to listen to music and be able to concentrate on it, it souldn't come from anywhere else.
If you install a subwoofer in your boot, you will want to remove the rear speakers anyway, a sub will draw air away from the rear speakers and will conflict to the extent that they will destroy any other speaker in there even if the rear speakers are turned off to a degree.

If you want to upgrade your speakers, go for components up front and if you want a little more power and crisper sound amp them.
The amps in headunits nowadays are quite good but aren't really that great if you want that extra bit of oomph.
An Active amplified sub is a great option for basic plug and play, it will add warmth to your sound and you can remove it if you need boot space.

You will never get superb quality sound! as cars aren't designed for sound.
If you want to improve your sounds you will need to soundproof your doors, floors and boot for the best quailty you can get, this stops road noise and even vibration.
You can use roof felt from B&Q and save ££ over proper stuff and you will be told by enthusiasts that you won't tell the difference in most situations.

Lastly, shop around to see what you like and hear as many as you want but DO NOT BUY THEM! instead buy online as you really will save huge amounts of ££!
I've seen in the past a headunit I wanted and it was literally £100+ more in the shop.

[Spirit]

All good advice guys - thanks a lot - gonna have a nosey around a bit more, always bought Pioneer in the past. Will update as I go along

[zedy1]

wont recommend upgradeing the fronts if your using the head nit to power them. if you going to upgrade anything all you need to do is change the headunit pete then an amplifier to power the speakers then a subwoofer

[Spirit]

Mo - want to offer me a set up/installation ? Don't mind travelling if you can do me a deal ?

[Japmetal]

If good sound quality is all you want [not mega volume] about £500 is about right to be spending - you'd be amazed at the difference just upgrading the standard equipment with direct-replacement [same size to fit the same holes] speakers and a good quality headunit can make. I'd generally suggest a sub too - as has been said, a self-powered one can be good for beginners for ease of installation, but you wont always get a sound to suit your tastes this way.

Dont get bogged down in all the technical terms tho; spend a while nosing round shops, the 'net and any online forums you can find to learn what you ned to know and the kit other people are using/recommend !

[Spirit]

I am lucky that I have a mate who is an ICE/Alarm installer but it's just a pain in the ass to get hold of him as he works 7 days a week ! Went round today and yep he was working. I will catch up with him and get some prices - reckon head unit, sub, amp and speakers then.
So the hole under the rear parcel shelf - is this a ready cut hole for a sub ? If so does anyone know what size etc will fit in there ?

[zedy1]

i think the holes an 8 or 10 inch, front and rear speakers 6.5", but i dont think the parcel shelf has a cut in it, i wouldnt recomend installing a sub there as its going to be too small and has to be a free air sub, best sub would be a 15" sub in box.
currently i have account with audiobahn and i think there not cheap but they have very good quality products.

[Spirit]

Okay current list looks like this:

Pioneer AVH-P6400CD/B plus additional DVD player INSERT INTO post VALUES (for spare DIN)
Kenwood KAC-7201 amp 800w
Sony XSL121P5 12" sub INSERT INTO post VALUES (in box as recommended by Mo)
Uprated 6.5" speakers INSERT INTO post VALUES (tbc - but probably Pioneer)

+ possibly Pioneer 6 disc multichanger - comments ?

[zedy1]

ive sold a few of those dvd players there not too bad but get abit sticky sometimes, how much youre going to pay for screens pete

[Spirit]

I am only going for the head unit to start with if I go ahead - can get for £585 inc shipping from USA - cost £800+ over here. This will give me the option of adding headrest screens later. Just got to toss up if I wanna spend so much for the screen set up or just stick a decent head unit without screen and dvd.

[zedy1]

fitted a pioneer in a 3 series bmw complete with built in dvd mp3 cd ect with touch screen is quite cool and is tottaly removable

[Nick Mann]

On a tangent - hopefully interesting - the amp pictured above states nice and clearly '800 Watts'. To mean anything useful, this should be the RMS output power. The input power must be greater than the output INSERT INTO post VALUES (as no circuit is without power loss) so lets work it all out:

As power equals voltage multiplied by current INSERT INTO post VALUES (P=ItV, but for continuous power, I=1); then current equals power divided by voltage.

The ingoing power is greater than 800, from the observation above, and your average car supplies 12ish volts. So to output the 800 watts claimed above, the ingoing current would have to be more than 67A. I can see that there are 2 fuses in the side of the amp, but I can't tell what they are. Do they add up to 70A or more?

[zedy1]

look loke green colour so theyll be 60 amp

[Spirit]

That is interesting Nick, cheers mate. As another point of interest INSERT INTO post VALUES ( Mo and BDA may be able to confirm this); my Apexi RSM regularly shows around 14v once the engine is running - I assume this will assist in the above ?

[zedy1]

mine shows 14v when stereo off but when used it goes down to 11.9v also there is voltage drop by the time it reaches the amp due to traveling the distance to the boot thats why i have a 0g power cable

[enigma]

14V is about right.........its 12V nominal. Many Amp manufacturers use this fact to 'boost' the power figures...........if you get 14.4V that is 20% more power! Manufacturers are trick bar stools!