supercharging

[pitslayer]

right i was looking on net yesterday, after thinking about how much difference there is between our cars and the VR4s...so i thought has anyone done any supercharging to a galant ive seen one that was done....but has anyone done it on here, and could they be twin supercharged.....i was looking at these bolt on kits, and no there not on ebay, and no there not electric, trust me i hate them and take the mick out of them all the time......but i found these vortech superchargers, complete direct bolt on kits, about 900 quid or so
http://www.andysautosport.com/mitsubishi/1994_1998_galant/performance/turbos_and_superchargers/supercharger_kits/vortech/vort00092709.html
reckon it could be done, someone doing a twin supercharger set up....whats teh limits on the standard internal gubbins and doobries on a galant non vr4, how much bhp can they take after bolting on a supercharger......
just curious, doubt id ever do it, just thought it would be a good discusion point

[MPBVr4]

Vortech supercharges are used a fair bit by the VW boys on the VR6 and the R32
They start at about 6psi boost and easily go over 300bhp. Can't see any probs
with the V6 mitsi lump it's pretty much the same as the VR4. I'm sure somebody else will be along who knows more.

[pitslayer]

was just looking, for like 900 quid for a full bolt on system is pretty good, considering you dont need to drop compression ratios and forged pistons etc when you go down the turbo route......
supercharged V6, what kind of power would any one guess on that putting out, enough to keep up with a VR4 or to spank a VR4

[Nick Mann]

I would take an uneducated guess that 900 notes will not get you to much over 200-220 horses. I would be gobsmaked if a V6 becomes a VR4 spanker for just £900!

[Nutter_John]

I agree with nick , the pistond and rods in the v6 are not as strong as the ones in the vr4 . Also I do not think that the kit is a bolt on for the jap spec 8g 2.5 v6 , even if it is I doubt you would get much more as you also have to then map the fueling , bigger injectors .

remember that the vr4 was a v6 made to go fast but they changed quite a lot to do so .

[Wodjno]

I agree with nick , the pistond and rods in the v6 are not as strong as the ones in the vr4 . Also I do not think that the kit is a bolt on for the jap spec 8g 2.5 v6 , even if it is I doubt you would get much more as you also have to then map the fueling , bigger injectors .

remember that the vr4 was a v6 made to go fast but they changed quite a lot to do so .

So will VR4 pistons and Rods fit in a V6 :thinking:

And how different is the crank ?

[Nutter_John]

not seen the crank from a v6 but if it is the same one as the vr4 then you could swap the pistions and rods to give you a vr2

[Wodjno]

not seen the crank from a v6 but if it is the same one as the vr4 then you could swap the pistions and rods to give you a vr2

Well, was just thinking if someone did want to fit a Supercharger to a V6, then this would be an option.. And as there is going to be spare VR4 pitons and rods kicking around soon.. :D

[bradc]

the kit is for a 94 to 98 galant, which will be the american 7G. Considering their engine is the other way around in the engine bay, I doubt it will actually fit. American's also never received any 6a12/6a13 engine in any of their cars.

[Wodjno]

the kit is for a 94 to 98 galant, which will be the american 7G. Considering their engine is the other way around in the engine bay, I doubt it will actually fit. American's also never received any 6a12/6a13 engine in any of their cars.

Never actually looked at the link :thinking:

And i was talking more in general about fitting superchargers.. A supercharger can be made to fit any engine..

[bradc]

just like any turbo can go onto any engine, but it might not be an easy process!

[pitslayer]

i was just curious, that was all, not going to be doing it.....if i did, i would most probably go down the route of putting in 4wd and twin superchargers, some head work, bigger valves etc forged pistons remap etc

just a discussion point, wanted to see what people thought

[bradc]

if you were going to do all that, it'd be easier to start with a vr-4 anyway :)

[pitslayer]

i wouldnt do it anyway couldnt afford it, nor is it worth doing it.....just curious on what people thought of this as in idea

[defm0de]

I dont think you can dual supercharge anyway, correct me if im wrong.

[Nick Mann]

I'm not sure if there is a point to dual supercharging? There is not the same lag as turbos, which is why the VR4 has two little'uns instead of one big'un.

I would imagine it can be done, but I don't understand the advantage at the moment.

[stuey]

I dont think you can dual supercharge anyway, correct me if im wrong.

Superchargers run off the crank pulley, so you wouldn't 'need' 2. Can't see it being worth it either, you could probably have one modified to fit but the amount of custom one off parts would be stupidly expensive, unless you're a very skilled fabricator. Limits would be the same factors as with Vr4 engine (crank/rods/pistons).

[Wodjno]

just like any turbo can go onto any engine, but it might not be an easy process!

But this a discussion about Superchargers :D

[pitslayer]

some engines do run a twin supercharger set up..... ive not properly looked at it, the advantage of a supercharger is that being driven of the crank there is no lag what so ever.......and a lot of the time you will usually find cars with big engines run small turbos, and small engines will run big turbos :)

[rees]

bumping this thread up,

well what about both then ? why couldnt you super charge to cover the 0-60 lag before a big turbo spools up
?

[Gowf]

bumping this thread up,

well what about both then ? why couldnt you super charge to cover the 0-60 lag before a big turbo spools up
?

It can indeed be done. The Lancia Delta S4 is one example of it. Hugely successful, just a shame GpB was banned. The work required to do it is huge though, and as has been pointed out, due the bespoke nature of it the costs would be astronomical. Far easier and cheaper to run a bit of laughing gas to help you spool if lag is your issue

[chris g]

VW running turbo and supercharger in at least one car...?

Fit both - benefits of both

[rees]

, due the bespoke nature of it the costs would be astronomical.



bespoke as say for example custom manifolds? adaptor plates ? internals ? or anything else that goes with a bigger turbo upgrade ?

imagine tho the pwer tho of runing a "valmes setup " with a superchage ?you could even go bigger turbo size without the worry 0f lag ? no ?


i know its all dream talk but what a dream :smitten:

[bradc]

It is a huge amount of work, and where would you fit it?

A better option would probably be to go with a tri turbo setup IMHO.

Keep the stock TD03 turbos but make custom manifolds with large wastegates built into them. Start to open the wastegates once you build to 15psi which is around 3000rpm, keep them open enough to keep the boost at 15psi until 4500rpm. The exhaust from the wastegates is going into the big GT35R or something similar which is mounted above the gearbox where Mike put his TD05. Then at 4500rpm or so, open the wastegates fully on the TD03's, shut a valve before the exhaust of the TD03's and redirect all exhaust gas into the GT35R. It's already spinning from the air that was previously wastegated out from the TD03's, and bang you're off with a 700hp turbo and no lag :)

The change in exhaust note would be cool too :D

[Gowf]

A sequential turbo set up like you say brad would work well, its just controlling it to make sure that the smaller tubs dont become a restriction.

I know ive spent far more than most would ever even contemplate on mine, but still nothing close to what it would cost to get a supercharger in there. And would you really want the mad max look of having a supercharger sticking out of the bonnet, on the driverside (unless of course you want to mount the engine in a longitudinal fashion) obscuring your view, because where else would it go? Would be a cool thing to say that you've done, but doing what they say cant be done wouldnt be as easy providing thirsty folks in Atlanta with beer from Texarcana!

[bradc]

The stock turbos won't become a restriction at high rpm because the wastegate and valve system would re-direct all exhaust gases through the larger turbine.

[Johny]

could you supercharge a gdi or would it just die?

[Turbo_Steve]

Don't think GDI will flow enough fuel to successfully run Forced Induction.

As for the tripleturbo setup: There is no reason why it won't work. However, it's hard enough for manufacturers to get twin sequentials to work smoothly (they're often heavily criticised) so my feeling is that it would be something you'd be forever tweaking trying to get it "Just so": successful systems generally have a seperate barometric compensation table for manageing the handover between the turbos. A company in the UK recently sequential-turbo'd a Ford Focus (440bhp I believe) with great results. However, they've been developing the kit for 4 years, and can't promise it will work as well on a customers car.

IF you can get that handover....it'd be a WEAPON! :)

However.......I suspect it would be easier to fit a pair of large turbos (GT30Rs?) which would normally be laggy, and then supercharge (which IS very easy to do: the Vortechs are available in very small sizes, which can be run very hard to to lift the area under the curve, and significantly reduce the lag. As there is no sudden redirection of gasses, you won't have the "valley of death" effect, as the supercharger effectively is increasing the compression ratio of the engine, but if set up correctly will be starting to run out of puff just after the big turbos get into their stride. No additional complex control system, just a new map based on the usual technology, and some monster internals and injectors :)

[bradc]

The reason I suggested the TD03's is that we already have them for free when we buy the car.

One of merc's diesel V6's actually runs a tri setup that operates exactly how I described.

[psbarham]

could you supercharge a gdi or would it just die?

with a set of secondry injectors to provide the juice, but that means a new fuel computer, which then means a load of dyno time.
but, and this could prove vital, they did produce a gdi turbo in the shogun pinin i think it was, the next task is to find one of those with an arse end shunt and swap the engine and ecu over:scholar:


but doing what they say cant be done wouldnt be as easy providing thirsty folks in Atlanta with beer from Texarcana!

i can provide a blue trans-am and a ford cargo for a low budget re-enactment /lol

[rees]

cool thread , love the ideas being thrown up keep it up:thumbsup:

[Turbo_Steve]

brad...really? Never even heard of it.
Bear in mind that a TD is peakier in it's delivery anyway (pathetic off boost, brilliant on boost) so anything that improves that is liable to accepted warmly: not sure how well it'd go down on the refinement of a Petrol lump.
That said...it may be awesome!

I'm not sure that keeping the TD03's would be much of a cost saving: you've got to totally redesign the manifolds and fit (by my reckoning) 3 external wastegates to divert flow from the 03s to the biggun. I don't think you can just flow from the little ones into the big one as it would provide a significant bottleneck, equaliaing the pressure between the 03's and the turbo, meaning the car will try and spool all the turbos at once...unless you fit a massive external bypass valve to the big turbo. This is now getting expensive.

[bradc]

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/2242/Mercedes-Benz-SLK-320-CDI-Tri-Turbo.html

That explains how their system works