Group buy on the Diayama coilovers

[Nutter_John]

Well if you have read the review I wrote of coilovers , we at WRD have managed to get a great deal on these and want to offer these to the good people on here

Now for a set of Coilovers on there own the price is 450 uk pounds
For a set of Coilovers with the DPX electronic control 550 uk pounds

Now this is a time limited offer and we need to purchase 10 sets to get these prices .

So if your interested then please put ya name down before 24th June 2007

link to review http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24929

[Nutter_John]

please feel free to ask questions

[psbarham]

why is water wet?
if we are related to monkeys etc , why is it they never come and visit ?

:D :D

[White Lightning]

So if your interested then please put ya name down before 24th June 2007

At that price I am definately in ... :thumbsup:

Not sure about the DPX duberry yet ... still have some questions about that and would like to see some photos of the bits and bobs on the car ... i.e. what does the stepper motor look like in the engine ? :inquisiti

[richy rich]

why is water wet?
if we are related to monkeys etc , why is it they never come and visit ?

:D :D
why is water wet? who cares.:thinking:


if we are related to monkeys etc , why is it they never come and visit ?Because they no longer love use. :bigcry: :bigcry: :bigcry:

[White Lightning]

Bump.

[gary_yuen42]

John you have some pictures of the kit on the car? :D

[White Lightning]

John you have some pictures of the kit on the car? :D

/yes

Current list of people signed up for Group Buy:

1. White Lightning
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.


..... :speechles

:inquisiti

[Nutter_John]

John you have some pictures of the kit on the car? :D

Yes thank you I haver some lovely pics of them on the car , but the camera is at Richy's doh

Will get some up as soon as I pick the camera up

[Wodjno]

Yes thank you I haver some lovely pics of them on the car , but the camera is at Richy's doh

Will get some up as soon as I pick the camera up

Doesn't Richy know how to Upload some Pics /pan

[Nutter_John]

silly question Glen , what do you think :D

No he would need the cable i have at home to connect the camera

[Nick Mann]

So can I check?:

The spring rates are defineable at the point of purchase.
The suspension is adjustable for
Height
Hardness
The Hardness can be electronically adjusted with the optional extra, but not the ride height
The equipment fits saloons and estates of the 4WD variety
There is no option of purchasing at this price if the magic number of 10 is not reached, or people don't jump on board by 24th.

I want to buy suspension, but the time thing is against me at the moment. I have insurance to work out this month and my MOT is not due for another 10/11 months!! Could you let me know what the price would be if I bought this setup outside of the group buy?

[White Lightning]

John will confirm but I am pretty sure it's £490 delivered without the DPX controller and £685 with the controller.

And I believe everything you have said above is correct ... /yes

[Nutter_John]

The suspension is adjustable for
Ride height
This can be adjusted on the car by undo'ing the bottom bolt and rotating the collar before locking with a C spanner
pre-load
Adjustment is via two locking rings that need to be rotated up or down to change the pre-load
dampers (soft or hard ride )
This can be adjusted via a turn screw if you don't want the eltro thingymabob

Yes the fit either the Galant or the Legnum , these will only be offered at this low price this time , But even if we don't get 10 we SHOULD be able to get them at this price .

I will be at da Pod this weekend so ya can have a look at em on the car

[gary_yuen42]

John will confirm but I am pretty sure it's £490 delivered without the DPX controller and £685 with the controller.

And I believe everything you have said above is correct ... /yes

John have went through a great bargaining for the members the prices is : -

Coilover on its own £450

Coilover with DPX ( In car damping controller) £550

[jayjay99]

I'm gonna get some 18" wheels at some point and was thinking of getting some new springs but am now thinking of these coilovers.... the only thing is fitting, I've never done anything like this before, don't suppose WRD are doing any field work south in the near future?!? Plus I've still got that wurring noise I wouldn't mind you guys look at it, I'm having people tell me it's power steering pumps, cv joints, bearings.... I trust you guys more than the others.

[Nutter_John]

Can be arranged if needed Jay but we would want a couple of jobs in the south the make it worth while

[Brunty]

So if your interested then please put ya name down before 24th June 2007

Has the deadline for opting in been extended then?

[Nutter_John]

Yeah due lack of interest I will be extending this until early next week , at which point we will then close the offer

[Kieran]

What spring rates are on offer John? I remember you saying they could be changed, but for the group buy, is it one rate fits all, or can individuals customise on order?

[Nutter_John]

I will check and confirm

[Nick Mann]

I am looking at placing an order, John, but I want to discuss/select spring rates first. Please post up the options when you know them.

[Nutter_John]

The options are as follows

What ever you want !!!! :D

If needed I can arrange a telephone call with all parties interested where you can ask questions and discuss the options

Cheers John

[Nick Mann]

Following the discussions on this thread (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13908) I think I would like to order 5kg front and 3kg rear. This is assuming that the standard setting is 12 and 6? What rates are yours, John, and how hard would you say the ride is compared to standard?

/edit - just re-read your review and it confirms my thoughts. Let me know what to do to order a set with the electronic adjustment!

[Nick Mann]

*cough*

[Nutter_John]

*cough*

you missed the 4 from in front of that

I keep meaning to give you a call , whens best for ya to talk ?

[White Lightning]

you missed the 4 from in front of that

/haz

[Nutter_John]

/haz

so you still in for some then Wayne ?????

[White Lightning]

so you still in for some then Wayne ?????

/yes

Just not in any great rush at the moment so I am happy to hang back and see if you get any more takers.

[Nutter_John]

have two confirmed orders so far

[Mac.]

Just thought I'd let you know that Daiyama are not a newish brand - they have been around for near 37 years now making suspension and suspension components. They are quality and strong and a very dependable company. Good luck with the sales! We sell em by the container load here!

[White Lightning]

As mentioned in another thread, I have now decided to go for Tein suspension instead as the exchange rate for Japan appears to be quite favourable at the moment.

Big thanks to John for letting me look at his setup though :thumbsup:

[Kieran]

Yes, nearly 250 Yen to the Pound!! :afro: :afro: :afro:

Shame my bonus (If I get one!) comes NEXT payday!! /Grrr /Hissy /Hissy

[White Lightning]

Shame my bonus (If I get one!) comes NEXT payday!! /Grrr /Hissy /Hissy

That's what credit cards are for ... ;)

[gary_yuen42]

John Can you give me a shout asap, as we are ready to take the order for the groupbuy for the Daiyama coilovers. Thanks

[Nick Mann]

Sorry - after further talking and investigating, I have gone down the Tein Super Wagon route too. They are less than £500 shipped now.

[david]

where can you buy the tein for£500ish,and are the daiyama ones still on offer and which would be the best setup for spirited road use.

[peter thomson]

They are on RHD Japan

[gary_yuen42]

Yes Daiyama are still avaialble. On John's set up they are F14 R: 10kg/mm if I remember correctly. If for road F:10kg/mm R:8/6kg/mm

Also that orders can be taken now. As we have a shipment to finalise. Any takers please get into contact asap :) the groupbuy price is still valid.

[david]

could you tell me what the delivery is on the daiyama.

[gary_yuen42]

Yes sure. if any orders taken now we are looking at end of Sept.

[Twpsin]

John,

Did you ever order the Diayama Coilovers I paid the deposit for

You are not answering your PM or phone

[MR.VOODOO]

Sorry - after further talking and investigating, I have gone down the Tein Super Wagon route too. They are less than £500 shipped now.


I think you lot have fogotten that i am a offical tein dealer , ask me for prices
group buy etc mind you if you can get suoer wagon shipped for £500 then that is good IN FACT TOOOOOOOOO GOOOOOOOOOOOOD
In fact foget the group buy i am going to buy direct from japan .............

on another note , now a blitz dealer


mind you nick you might pay vat and duty on them then the wty issues.........
come i can sort this and i wll post priecs on a diffrent thread......

[gary_yuen42]

John,

Did you ever order the Diayama Coilovers I paid the deposit for

You are not answering your PM or phone

I have just PM'd John also to find out the details... What spring rate you requires?

[Wouter]

Just spotted these on Fleabay, does the user name look familiar?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-Daiyama-Coilover-for-Mitsubishi-Galant-VR4-EC5A-5W_W0QQitemZ270154061469QQihZ017QQcategoryZ40192QQ rdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

[gary_yuen42]

Yes they are also listed on Ebay by myself :)

[peter thomson]

Just ordered a set of these with DPX. They are still available to club members for £450 with the DPX another £150. I'll let you know how I get on with them when they arrive.

[Nick Mann]

Cool! Do you know what your current suspension is? I see it isn't normal ride height but you haven't listed it in your garage?

Let us know how they compare!

[peter thomson]

Cool! Do you know what your current suspension is? I see it isn't normal ride height but you haven't listed it in your garage?

Let us know how they compare!

I'm not sure to be honest. I think they are standard struts and HKS springs so I expect a good improvement as it does not like the roads up here and has bottomed out on the bumpstops a few times or grounded something

[peter thomson]

Gary has ordered the coilovers and he's having them sent over by air but I don't think they will be here until next year. Plenty time to find out what keeps draining my battery and fit the bigger intercooler

[peter thomson]

The coilovers are in the Uk so should be delivered soon. The design has been changed slightly after feed back from others as mentioned by Gary below.

"Also to mention we have requested the manufactuer to extend the front lower bracket by 20mm, to give you extra height at the front.
As the previous version was too much of a drop as a feedback from test users"

[phosty]

I have had my Daiyamas fitted for a few months now, supplied by Gary. Generally they are fine - I haven't gotten around to fitting the DPX units yet since I seem to have found damper settings I am quite happy with for allround motoring.

I did find that even with the lower bracket set on the max height that the suspension drop vs OEM was 45mm at the front and 40mm at the rear. That is with only 2mm of spring preload and sping rates of F:10kg/mm R:6kg/mm.

I have been finding that I have to be careful on the rutted and pot-holed roads around Aberdeen not to ground out (i.e. I usually hit the engine centre member or the exhaust Cat shielding) with that much drop. I had discussed with Gary about changing the height of the bracket to allow less of a minimum drop so it's excellent to hear the manufacturer is responding so quickly to users feedback.

One area I am still querying with Gary is the sound that these dampers make. The rear damper tunnels are located in the passenger cabin in the Legnum and there is a hole in the top of the tunnel (which allows easy access to change damper settings). I am getting quite a lot of 'squelching' sounds from these two dampers whenever I go over even relatively small bumps or dips in the road. If I hit a pothole they actually create a loud 'popping' sound.

Now I had the fronts fitted months before the rears and noticed no squelching or popping but then they are fitted in the engine bay. It was only when I fitted the rears that I got the sounds.

Is this normal for after-market coilovers? Nutter_John do you get the same sounds from the rears (or is the top of the tunnels into the boot compartment on the Saloon)?

I would have to remove them and refit the old ones if I want to send them back to Gary so I wanted to know if it is normal before doing that.

[MarkSanne]

could you Daiyama-experienced drivers tell me how comfortably the most comfortable settings is? (I know 'comfort' is quite a personal thing but please give it a shot if you please).

[phosty]

From my other thread: http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27668

However with the F:10kg/mm, R:6kg/mm I would say they are very similar to the stock springs/dampers in terms of firmness. I initially ran the fronts with the damping knob (0-32 clicks) set at 0 but I was finding that on fast roads with medium pot holes/dips or speedbumps I was grounding out (not sure on what yet - think it was the front centre member). At the other extreme 32 clicks it just gets a bit too rigid, and over the supermarket speedbumps the wheel wasn't rebounding fast enough even at slow speeds to prevent slight hopping of the fronts. So I have settled for the time being at 16 clicks, front and back. This seems to limit high speed bounces and limits oscillations to 1 bounce.

[MarkSanne]

Thanks Phosty, but I don't know how the stock dampers feel, since I (nor anyone else here in the Netherlands) owns a VR4...

I would just like to know what to expect with the Daiyama kit, as I'm not looking for the same (missing) 'comfort' as my current AST coilovers offer. I want a smooth ride.

[phosty]

Not sure how to explain really - it's all a bit subjective. The stock dampers/coils felt very stiff/firm to me the first time I drove my VR4. But then my previous ride was a Rover 800 - and Rover tried selling those to the Yanks so they had pretty wallowy suspension. After a while with the VR4 I got used to it. It barely rolled through corners in comparison to my old car. Speed bumps were definately something to be slowed down for though.

But I wanted to lower the car a bit since the standard VR4 looks like the arches are too big for wheels (IMO). So I got the Daiyamas fitted.

The springs are fixed rate compared to the factory ones (variable spacing/diameter - see photos in my other thread) so you don't get a steady ramp up - they are definately firmer all the way from the start of any movement. So I think I feel more small bumps that would be soaked up with the old ones. I slow down even more for speedbumps than I did before - because I have the damping knob set about 50%-75% they don't react too quickly to sudden bumps and they don't seem to rebound fast enough over vicious bumps to stop a bit of bang. I don't think I have hit the bump stops - I tend to hit the centre member or exhuast.

The standard suspension has LOTS of sag - try jacking up a wheel and see how high you have to get it before it lifts. The Daiyamas have probably <33% of the stock sag. When I jacked up the front wheel enough to allow me access to the transfer box I realised the rear wheel had lifted too! That didn't used to happen. So that means you feel sudden holes in the road a lot more.

There is only one damping knob so I assume that affects both compression and rebound damping equally - and there is no fine tuning for high speed and low speed compression. So any setting is going to have to be a compromise. But thats why they cost less than those with 3 way damping adjustment I guess. (I have the Fox 32 RC2 fork on my MTB which has all three - but that costs more than the Daiyamas alone!)

So now I feel like the car is much more 'planted' when travelling at higher speeds (and on smooth highways) - but at slower speeds (or rough roads) the ride is compromised a little in comparison to the standard suspension.

I like the Daiyamas (so far). I have had no prior experience of 'performance cars' - other than being driven in a mates Evo7 and that just rattled it was so stiff - so I can't give you any comparisons really. I think I would like it able to be just a touch higher (I understand the newer ones have been modified) to start with so you can move it down until you start getting problems.

Dunno - does that help?

It might be nice if they figured out a way to have damping that varies with speed - like the new TT (as an option). Ah well.

[Kenneth]

It might be nice if they figured out a way to have damping that varies with speed - like the new TT (as an option). Ah well.

I believe you can purchase a system that does this. It has individual stepper motors over each damper and a controller that sits in the cabin. I am not sure if it is able to increase or decrease the dampening based on speed though.


Personally I would have the damper rate set a low lower than that, ramping it up only when I go out for a drive on which I know I will want the extra stability.
Not only will this make the ride more comfortable, it will place less stress on the dampers and may increase their life expectancy.

[bradc]

thats the TEIN edfc system you're talking about there Kenneth. It doesn't automatically adjust, but you are right about being able to adjust it from the cabin.

[Kenneth]

thats the TEIN edfc system you're talking about there Kenneth. It doesn't automatically adjust, but you are right about being able to adjust it from the cabin.

No, I am talking about the Diayama Electronic Damper Controller. (http://www.fortyone.co.nz/parts/show/856/Daiyama/Electronic%20Damper%20Controller.html)

[MarkSanne]

Thanks Phosty, this is very helpfull. As you said, these kind of things are very subjective, but you gave me a proper insight. I think my current setup will be very comparable to the daiyama setup. If you don't mind feeling most little bumps and also don't mind going at granny speed over speed bumps it's exactly right, as it offers good grip and you can corner very fast.

Can anyone here advise me on a much more 'smooth' suspension for the VR2/4 ? I'd still like it to be lowered a bit, as the wheel arches (stock) show indeed rather large ugly gaps.

[phosty]

Good point Kenneth - I hadn't thought about increased stress on the units from having them set on high damping permanently. The problem I have though is that when set them to soft I ground out too often on bumpy roads - the original ride height drop (in my opinion) was a bit low even on the highest setting so I tended to ground out. I suppose this is also related to spring rates too - stiffer would ground out less but give a harsher ride. The extra 20mm that Gary has indicated the revised units have should help quite a bit.

That centre member is low!

On the ajustable damping issue - I have purchased the Daiyama DPX system and had actually intended to adjust them softer around town but stiffer for high speeds. That also comes with the 4 individual stepper motors that sit on top of each damper. They are slightly superior to the Tein EDFC in that they are wirelessly controlled from the handset which simply plugs into you lighter socket for power.

I haven't yet fitted them because I'm trying to finish a few other things first - plus I hadn't figured out the best place to draw power from.

I had been musing though that if one was able to feed a modified hand controller a speed signal then it could achieve the variable damping with speed effect. In practice though with stop-start town driving the little stepper motors would probably burn out. You'd need some logic in there so that adjustments were only made after a pre-set duration at certain speeds. The Audi system uses magnetic fields/fluids so avoids the mechanical element and could be constantly varying.

[Kenneth]

Good point Kenneth - I hadn't thought about increased stress on the units from having them set on high damping permanently. The problem I have though is that when set them to soft I ground out too often on bumpy roads - the original ride height drop (in my opinion) was a bit low even on the highest setting so I tended to ground out. I suppose this is also related to spring rates too - stiffer would ground out less but give a harsher ride. The extra 20mm that Gary has indicated the revised units have should help quite a bit.

That centre member is low!

On the ajustable damping issue - I have purchased the Daiyama DPX system and had actually intended to adjust them softer around town but stiffer for high speeds. That also comes with the 4 individual stepper motors that sit on top of each damper. They are slightly superior to the Tein EDFC in that they are wirelessly controlled from the handset which simply plugs into you lighter socket for power.

I haven't yet fitted them because I'm trying to finish a few other things first - plus I hadn't figured out the best place to draw power from.

I had been musing though that if one was able to feed a modified hand controller a speed signal then it could achieve the variable damping with speed effect. In practice though with stop-start town driving the little stepper motors would probably burn out. You'd need some logic in there so that adjustments were only made after a pre-set duration at certain speeds. The Audi system uses magnetic fields/fluids so avoids the mechanical element and could be constantly varying.

You may find that a higher spring rate is actually more comfortable as the spring and dampers can work together better to keep the car from grounding out.

I would like to make something clear here...(apologies if I am telling you something you already know...) the dampers are NOT designed to hold you off the road (stop it grounding out). Their job is to dampen the tendency of a spring and prevent it acting (funnily enough) too much like a spring. If you are grounding out you need to get a higher spring rate or raise the car up.

The whole idea in a damper is not to resist slow movement of the wheel (compression movement), such as going over a drive way, speed bump or even most bumps in the road around town at low speeds (say 30mph or less). at these speeds all the damper really wants to do is stop the spring returning too quickly to ride height while going over a bump (rebound) and causing the vehicle height to change over the affected wheel(s)

When going over a bump, you have to think of it as the wheel accelerating upwards to conform with the angle (gradient) of the bump. The faster you are traveling across the bump, the faster the wheel has to accelerate upwards to conform to the terrain profile (it has no choice, either the wheel goes up, the car goes up or something breaks). when you get to the top of the bump and either reach a flat area, or more likely start going down again, the wheel has to stop that upward travel. The weight of the unsprung assembly is such that unless going at only a moderate pace, the acceleration can exceed (depending on the bump of course) the force of the spring and without a damper the wheel would continue traveling upwards and loose contact with the ground. The job of the damper is to resist this by adding an additional force that increases as the speed of the upward motion of the wheel increases. This keeps the wheel in contact with the ground.

If the damper is too hard all the force goes through the damper and into the chassis of the car. This usually manifests in the form of a jarring ride. In this case you basically have a situation where the damper does all the work. This isn't good for it and may cause problems from premature failure to destroying the top hats (all that pressure goes into the shock shaft and up into the top hat). This won't alter the max / min height the car attains when traveling over variances in the ground, it just alters the time it takes to get there.

The spring rate on the other hand is the force that keeps you off the ground by pushing the wheels into the ground (unless you roll... then it pushes them into the air :P) With a strong spring rate you need a strong damper to keep the spring from returning to its ride height (or whatever natural height for the conditions) too quickly. The down side of course is that you will feel smaller bumps at low speed because the level of the vehicle changes much more quickly in relation to the terrain. This is because the strength of the spring and damper is such that it can overcome the acceleration of the unsprung assembly much quicker to the point where it moves the car to match the terrain profile rather than the wheel.

I could go on and on... its a bit of a big subject really.


That being said, what spring rates do you have? I was very impressed with the comfort available at 12kg/8kg front/rear respectively. With that setup I run (out of 32) something like 6 clicks front 4 clicks rear around town. Even Joanne found that fairly comfortable.

Do your shocks have separate height and preload adjustment? If so, try increasing your preload some. If you don't have separate height and preload adjustment this will raise the car a little... but it may be worth trying another 5-10mm to see how it goes. I found this was the key to getting a really good ride without being too harsh but handling well at the same time.

[Kenneth]

I have also contemplated how I would want an electronic adjustment to work.

my thoughts are that I would want to be able to select between 2 modes, auto and manual. In manual mode the dampers would be adjusted by a single variable resistor (pot) which would adjust the damper settings in % from 0-99 proportionally with % the resistance provided by the pot.

In auto I would want the variable resistor to set the inital damper setting then some way to select between profiles (4 would probably do) that set the speed where the adjustment starts and then the amount of adjustment to give in relation to the speed. ie: Start = 65Kph + 10% @ 100Kph + 10% @ 120Kph + 20% @ 140Kph.
This would create a curve that could be followed at a resolution of say 5Kph. (to save the stepper motors from frying :P)

[peter thomson]

:happy: My ones arrived today but minus/Grrr the DPX kit . Hopefully it will arrive soon and if the weather ok this weekend I will get them fitted though the DPX can be fitted later so not too much of a problem.

[phosty]

I understand what you'e saying there Kenneth. I had been leaning toward trying a little more preload on the two front dampers actually. I have the F:10kg/mm and R:6kg/mm so a bit less then yours.

The Daiyamas have separate preload and height adjustment - but I am already on max height.

I currently have them set up with 2 turns on the preload collar (2mm) just to give a little pressure and hold it all in place when fitting. I might try a bit more - the Fronts springs are 200mm uncompressed so maybe 5% (10mm) preload in total.

Trial & error eh?.......

Peter, if you want a hand at the weekend give me a shout. Though they are very simple once you've done one. Just make sure you have a stiff bar to lever the anti-roll bar!

[Kenneth]

I understand what you'e saying there Kenneth. I had been leaning toward trying a little more preload on the two front dampers actually. I have the F:10kg/mm and R:6kg/mm so a bit less then yours.

The Daiyamas have separate preload and height adjustment - but I am already on max height.

I currently have them set up with 2 turns on the preload collar (2mm) just to give a little pressure and hold it all in place when fitting. I might try a bit more - the Fronts springs are 200mm uncompressed so maybe 5% (10mm) preload in total.

Trial & error eh?.......

Try it this way, preload ALL to the point where you can no longer turn the C Spanner by hand. After doing this to each of the front and rear, check to see that the height is the same and adjust as necessary to make even.

Drop the car down and see how you like the height, and what sort of static sag you have. If not enough static sag (less than 40mm) then you will have to reduce the preload.

I have found this to give me the best overall comfort and performance characteristics. Obviously you can make adjustments from there, but it is a good starting point IMO :)

[peter thomson]

Peter, if you want a hand at the weekend give me a shout. Though they are very simple once you've done one. Just make sure you have a stiff bar to lever the anti-roll bar!

Thanks Phil should be fine as both my daughter and brother are able to help if needed.

[peter thomson]

Try it this way, preload ALL to the point where you can no longer turn the C Spanner by hand. After doing this to each of the front and rear, check to see that the height is the same and adjust as necessary to make even.


Kenneth is this done with the coilovers fitted or off the car?

[Kenneth]

Kenneth is this done with the coilovers fitted or off the car?

Fitted, that way you can get a lot more preload.

If you don't want to have to lever the anti-roll bar, just jack up each end of the car both wheels at a time. This saves much time and effort in the long run.

This is the basic order to do things

1) loosen the wheel nuts (all of them) while the car is on the ground and pop the bonnet
2) lift the front 2 wheels off the ground (either a jack under the middle or using axle stands)
3) remove both wheels
4) disconnect the anti-roll bar on both sides
5) remove the bolt that holds the shock body into the fork
6) remove (well loosen, you probably wont be able to get the suspension low enough to remove) the shock body from the fork
7) remove the bolt that connects the fork to the lower suspension arm
8) jiggle the fork and shock to separate them
9) remove securing nuts from top of strut.
10) remove shock assembly.

[peter thomson]

Fitted, that way you can get a lot more preload.

If you don't want to have to lever the anti-roll bar, just jack up each end of the car both wheels at a time. This saves much time and effort in the long run.

This is the basic order to do things

1) loosen the wheel nuts (all of them) while the car is on the ground and pop the bonnet
2) lift the front 2 wheels off the ground (either a jack under the middle or using axle stands)
3) remove both wheels
4) disconnect the anti-roll bar on both sides
5) remove the bolt that holds the shock body into the fork
6) remove (well loosen, you probably wont be able to get the suspension low enough to remove) the shock body from the fork
7) remove the bolt that connects the fork to the lower suspension arm
8) jiggle the fork and shock to separate them
9) remove securing nuts from top of strut.
10) remove shock assembly.

Thanks Kenneth that's what I thought but best to check first.

[peter thomson]

Fitted the coilovers at the weekend and so far I'm pretty happy with them .Not pushed it too much yet as Gary advised letting them "bed" in first. Feels a lot better now going over a dip in the road where i always backed off as it felt it would ground at speed. DPX kit arrived today so will try and fit it this weekend. If you are interested in these kits at the price mentioned Gary has implied that he may not be able to hold the price for much longer.

[phosty]

Peter, how do they sound? Or rather, are you getting any 'squelchy' noises from the rear shocks?

Also, how much preload did you set them up with (in mm's if possible)? Thanks.

[Nutter_John]

Missed your q to me Phil , no I have no noise from the back apart from two big exhausts

[peter thomson]

Peter, how do they sound? Or rather, are you getting any 'squelchy' noises from the rear shocks?

Also, how much preload did you set them up with (in mm's if possible)? Thanks.

Hi Phil no noise from the rear . Don't have a measurement but they are preloaded to just about the top threads front and rear . They settled a bit now at the rear so will be raising it a bit this weekend and I'll wind them down to check the distance when I raise them. I have slight rubbing at times . Dampers are set at the centre setting just now.

[Kieran]

Can you give us a review so far of the ride quality Peter?

[Kenneth]

Fitted the coilovers at the weekend and so far I'm pretty happy with them .Not pushed it too much yet as Gary advised letting them "bed" in first. Feels a lot better now going over a dip in the road where i always backed off as it felt it would ground at speed. DPX kit arrived today so will try and fit it this weekend. If you are interested in these kits at the price mentioned Gary has implied that he may not be able to hold the price for much longer.

How are you finding them? Did my adjustment advice work out for you? :)

[peter thomson]

How are you finding them? Did my adjustment advice work out for you? :)

Yes Kenneth fitted them as you advised and so far haven't changed anything.
I haven't been in a VR4 with standard suspension so can't really compare the 2 but it does feel more surefooted but I may prefer it to be a bit firmer yet.
I will see what happens when I play about with the damper setting but I may fit stronger springs on the front. I'll update this thread when I can .
There is one roundabout here where it slid quite badly on the old setup but it was in heavy rain and the tarmac was breaking up .It feels a lot better on that one now than it did before.On the same day though 2 imprezzas were written off probably due to aquaplaning one on the previous roundabout to the one I slid on
There is less jolt through the suspension now as well and the car is easier to drive now than it has been. I have to admit I was getting a bit of back pain before changing to the Diayama setup which is another plus for me.

[Kenneth]

What spring rates do you have?


I found that the pre load tends to make the car more settled and comfortable. I think it reduces the tendency to feel a little bouncy (for lack of a better word)

[peter thomson]

What spring rates do you have?


I found that the pre load tends to make the car more settled and comfortable. I think it reduces the tendency to feel a little bouncy (for lack of a better word)

F:10kg/mm and R:6kg/mm

Yes previous setup was "bouncy" and it is a lot better now. I can drive through some dips in the road a lot quicker than before

[peter thomson]

I was doing some work on the Legnum this weekend and noticed my front springs have lost all there paint and are looking pretty rusty. Rears are fine .Anybody else had this happen wih there daiyama springs. I've pm'd Gary but have not had a reply yet

[Nutter_John]

No mine are just dirty , they look fine , did notice the bottom locking ring at moved away from the bottom ( must relock that down )

[peter thomson]

Thanks John, bit worrying then that they are like this after only 4 months. I was adjusting the rear ride height and one of the locking rings was a pain to release as well.

[peter thomson]

After an initial email to Gary still not a word from him about the state of the front springs

[Nutter_John]

not seen him on IM for ages , he does spend a fair bit of time over in the far east , I do have his mobile number if your want it , just drop me a pm

[peter thomson]

Hi John pm sent

[phosty]

Just saw your posts Peter. This is interesting because I have had exactly the same issue – but with my rear springs. The front springs are fine.

I had been experiencing a ‘popping’ sound from my rears when going over sharp drops/bumps since fitting them last year. Unlike you I set my coilovers to the maximum ride height but set the springs (front & rear) up with only 1 collar turn of preload initially.

I had contacted Gary about the noise as I was worried it might indicate a failure of the damper. I removed the rears in preparation to send back to Gary but when I took them off I inspected the pistons and noticed that there was an oil tide mark almost as high as the bump stop. Now I remembered you had yours set with maximum preload and hadn’t reported any noise issues so I reasoned it possible that they might be topping out and hitting the bumpstop because I had too little preload on the rears.

In addition, when I removed the springs they were covered in rust and almost all the powder coating had flaked off. However my fronts were fine. I assumed that the lack of pre-load resulted in the coil being over worked and the powder coating was just flexed too much and flaked off, since my fronts were fine with no popping sounds.

I told Gary I would wind up the preload and see how they sound before actually sending them back to him for Daiyama to inspect.

So currently I have them with the preload wound up all the way on the rears. The popping sound does seem to have gone (I only changed them last weekend) so I will see how it goes. They are a lot stiffer though, and ride quite high so I will have to drop the ride height now.

But all my assumptions might be wrong if your fronts are flaking off though. Maybe they just had a bad batch on the powder coat?

Gary has usually responded pretty fast to my emails though as John says, he is often abroad so sometimes I get a reply from his business partner. I had been waiting to see how things went before I posted up here to give him a chance to deal with the issue.

It does appear though that they didn’t have British weather in mind when they designed these units. Unlocking and moving the collars was a real ***** with all the corrosion/dirt in the threads, especially as the lockrings are made of aluminium and soft as cheese. The notches in the rings just deformed and rounded using the supplied c-spanners so in the end I had to resort to pipe wrenches!

uploaded/4134/1210320038.jpg
uploaded/4134/1210320055.jpg
uploaded/4134/1210320073.jpg
uploaded/4134/1210320103.jpg
uploaded/4134/1210320122.jpg
uploaded/4134/1210320147.jpg

Interestingly, my new Legnum has Tein HA's fitted. These have been on it a while but unlocking the rings and making adjustments was simple and easy, with no corrosion of either threads or springs, and the c-spanners are much more accurately shaped to avoid slipping. I'll see how they cope with British weather ..... but it does seem like you get what you pay for. They are a bit too low though.

[peter thomson]

Hi Phil I had coated the threads on mine as well but they were a pain to adjust after being on for such a short time. The locking ring and spanners are not a good fit either when they are difficult to release. I also find that my fronts are too low but I don't think there are enough threads left to risk raising them futher. The rears are fine though and have plenty of scope for adjustment.
I'm going to give him a call soon if he hasn't replied by Monday.

[Nutter_John]

hmmm must have a close look at mine , they look quite bad as if they have not been prep'd properly before powdercoating them

[peter thomson]

I'll put up a pic of mine as well but off to pick up a replacement car tomorrow for the run back and fore to work. Leaving at 3am so need an early night

[peter thomson]

Phoned Gary today as I hadn't heard from him. I have to send him pics of the springs which he will forward to Daiyama. This could be a slow process . I still haven't had the chance to get pics but will have to at weekend.

[peter thomson]

I sent Gary pics over a week ago but haven't heard back from him yet. Not a good time with the accident John but have you checked the condition of your springs

[arcstrike]

i have bought my legnum with coilovers on tanabe sustec pro are they any good

[Kieran]

i have bought my legnum with coilovers on tanabe sustec pro are they any good

Yeah, Tanabe is one of the known Jap brands. What I would say is that the Tanabe sustec spring rates are quite high (standard springs are quite soft). So if you find the ride a bit bumpy, that's why. However, they're a good make as far as I know.

[Nutter_John]

I sent Gary pics over a week ago but haven't heard back from him yet. Not a good time with the accident John but have you checked the condition of your springs

Hi Peter

Yeah forgot to post up , all foru springs seem fine , I can not seen any cracking of the coating and they have no rust showing . I did not take them off to inspect fully but may do so after the car is sorted as after combo I have been having a random squeek noise like you guys have so we will see

Has Gary responded to you yet Peter

[peter thomson]

Hi John nothing since I sent the photos and a follow up email. Good to hear yours look fine considering that yours have covered a far greater distance than my ones as well. I'll call him again if I don't hear anything by next week.

[peter thomson]

Gary replied this morning to let me know Daiyama will be sending over some replacement springs. Sounds good to me

[Wodjno]

Yeah, Tanabe is one of the known Jap brands. What I would say is that the Tanabe sustec spring rates are quite high (standard springs are quite soft). So if you find the ride a bit bumpy, that's why. However, they're a good make as far as I know.

I was running Tanabe Sustec Pro's on thwe VR.. They were rated for the GDi..

But as u say they were to hard for the GDi /yes

So i had a plan that the extra weight of the VR would soften out the bounce.. And it did.. Can't fault them really.. Although theres no much drop on the shocks so u can get the car airborn quite easily :D But every time it landed it was solid and surefooted /yes
A little Bumpy.. But nothing like Barrys was :speechles

[arcstrike]

ta guys ride is a bit unforgiving but if you dance with the devil

[peter thomson]

Gary replied this morning to let me know Daiyama will be sending over some replacement springs. Sounds good to me

I'm still waiting for the replacement springs .Bit disappointing especially if something actually broke and I was off the road. /Grrr

[Nutter_John]

that is crap service from him , it's like 3 months ago since you reported it

[peter thomson]

Yes he blamed Daiyama initially for not sending the springs but this is very poor and he hasn't replied to my last email. I will have to try phoning him again I think

[peter thomson]

I've sent an email of to Daiyama as well now regarding the poor service and it was bounced back./Grrr

[peter thomson]

Gary replied today to let me know that Daiyama have given him various excuses to why the springs have not arrived yet and he has supplied me with the email address he uses so a complaint has just been sent to them regarding there poor customer service. I await there "prompt" reply.

Here's the email address if anybody needs to contact them

chief@daiyama.com

[Nutter_John]

Peter to back you up on this when i took my coilovers off the old car I found that 3 of my springs were in perfect condition and one was rusty , all the plastic coating had com away . The spring itself is find just no coating on it .

So I must make an assumption that there is a defect in the coating process where by a certain amount of the springs are rusting quicker than they should be

I will be dropping an email to gary and Dyanma to see what can be done , but your issues with em do not give me much hope

[peter thomson]

Thanks John. No response from them yet and to be honest I don't expect one.


Peter to back you up on this when i took my coilovers off the old car I found that 3 of my springs were in perfect condition and one was rusty , all the plastic coating had com away . The spring itself is find just no coating on it .

So I must make an assumption that there is a defect in the coating process where by a certain amount of the springs are rusting quicker than they should be

I will be dropping an email to gary and Dyanma to see what can be done , but your issues with em do not give me much hope

[phosty]

Hmmn, I think Gary needs to be reminded of the Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002 (http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/calitem.cgi?file=ADV0043-0100.txt) which clearly makes the point that the contract is between you and the trader - not the manufacturer.

There is clearly an issue with some of the Daiyama springs - on the left are my rears (6kg/mm springs) and on the right the fronts (10kg/mm springs). Both have been on my car for approximately the same time.

uploaded/4134/1218659059.jpg

I haven't had a response from Gary to an email I sent a few weeks ago either.

I feel a letter might be in order....

[peter thomson]

I've been thinking along the same lines Phil as the length of time we have to wait for any kind of response is very poor. I sent a second email of to daiyama today as well as they have not responded either. All Gary has to do I suppose is find springs of the correct diameter and spring rate for us and then sort it out with daiyama himself later.


Hmmn, I think Gary needs to be reminded of the Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations 2002 (http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/calitem.cgi?file=ADV0043-0100.txt) which clearly makes the point that the contract is between you and the trader - not the manufacturer.

There is clearly an issue with some of the Daiyama springs - on the left are my rears (6kg/mm springs) and on the right the fronts (10kg/mm springs). Both have been on my car for approximately the same time.

uploaded/4134/1218659059.jpg

I haven't had a response from Gary to an email I sent a few weeks ago either.

I feel a letter might be in order....

[Nutter_John]

Yep that is how just one of my rears look , deffo suggests to me that it is a standard issue as the common element seems to be the rears

I have had mine for over one year on the car and I am out side the warramty period but if we can prove that this is defect from manufactuer then the lenght of time I have had my springs is not important

[Kenneth]

They look to be suffering from corrosion.

Either there is something in the atmosphere, the roads (salt?) or they weren't correctly plated.

[phosty]

Either there is something in the atmosphere, the roads (salt?)

Then that should mean both the rears and fronts would be affected similarly. I originally believed it was only a coating issue. Both I and Peter have 6kg/mm springs at the rear and 10 at the front so it would suggest they had a bad batch of 6 kg/mm springs.....but don't you have 10 kg/mm at the rear John? Hmmn...

[Nutter_John]

yep my rears are 10kg so it is not a batch issue

[peter thomson]

Gary has had a reply from Daiyama so hopefully some progress is being made. Here's what they said

Dear Gary,
I got a mail from Mr. Thomson Peter J one of your customer.
He requested the replacement of front springs for Legnum VR4 kits.
Is the Legnum VR4 same with Galant ?
Should I send the spring to him directly or send it to you ?
Looking forward to hearing from you soon !
With best regards,
Hosen

[peter thomson]

Still no further on and going by the length of time this takes if a shock actually fails they will just be going in the bucket and I'll never recommend daiyama products to anyone.

[Nutter_John]

Peter this is not good , as you say they have had more than enough time to sort this out

I would suggest that you tell Gary that you are going to trading standards and reporting the persistant ignoring of your requests , and also inform him that you will be writing to some magazines with your feedback on the coilovers and there abillity to support the customer base

[chris g]

Sounds more like 'inability' or 'unwillingness' to support customers...

[peter thomson]

well just had a reply from Gary that the springs are out of stock and he has to call the factory back on monday. For a manufacturer to be out of stock of an item they need to build suspension units is very poor in my opinion.

[peter thomson]

Peter this is not good , as you say they have had more than enough time to sort this out

I would suggest that you tell Gary that you are going to trading standards and reporting the persistant ignoring of your requests , and also inform him that you will be writing to some magazines with your feedback on the coilovers and there abillity to support the customer base

depending on what the answer is on Monday that will be what I do next.

[ҢдщҚ]

ignore this !

[peter thomson]

Another update.
Gary has cc'd me in his emails and the last contact was that my spring plus some other spare parts for Galants (anyone on here) were to be sent last Monday with Gary being sent the tracking info. Looks as if he is still waiting for this confirmation. I'm starting to wonder if Daiyama may be in trouble and I'll never see these replacements.

On another note after fitting the camber adjusters to the front suspension the other week I found the ride even harsher than before (polybushs in these) so decided to reduce the preload on the springs. Bad idea, the bumper ground out on the drive about 4 feet from the entrance so back to the preload I had before.
I asked Gary to send me a the same rate as John has as I think the car is just too low for the 8kg/mm. I also think I must have the old short lower bracket rather than the 20mm extended one I was supposed to have.

[Kenneth]

Is the 8KG front or rear? If front, one option would be to get 2 12kg or 14kg springs and put the 8kg on the rear and 12kg/14kg up front



Another update.
Gary has cc'd me in his emails and the last contact was that my spring plus some other spare parts for Galants (anyone on here) were to be sent last Monday with Gary being sent the tracking info. Looks as if he is still waiting for this confirmation. I'm starting to wonder if Daiyama may be in trouble and I'll never see these replacements.

On another note after fitting the camber adjusters to the front suspension the other week I found the ride even harsher than before (polybushs in these) so decided to reduce the preload on the springs. Bad idea, the bumper ground out on the drive about 4 feet from the entrance so back to the preload I had before.
I asked Gary to send me a the same rate as John has as I think the car is just too low for the 8kg/mm. I also think I must have the old short lower bracket rather than the 20mm extended one I was supposed to have.

[peter thomson]

Is the 8KG front or rear? If front, one option would be to get 2 12kg or 14kg springs and put the 8kg on the rear and 12kg/14kg up front


They are on the front Kenneth and it's 14's I have asked for. I just hope it can be sorted out soon

[phosty]

Peter, I measured the lower brackets/sleeves on mine to compare:

Front: 125mm
Rear: 167mm

That's measuring from the top to very bottom (including the round rubber bushing part on the rears).

[phosty]

...after fitting the camber adjusters to the front suspension .....

Oh, I forgot to add, are these the ones from the US for the Galant they have? Don't they need to be trimmed slightly with a grinder to fit?

Back to the springs - I have inquired about springs from other sources.

Hypercoil do a whole range of sizes, lengths and rates. I was quoted £35 for a pair a couple of months ago.

[peter thomson]

Peter, I measured the lower brackets/sleeves on mine to compare:

Front: 125mm
Rear: 167mm

That's measuring from the top to very bottom (including the round rubber bushing part on the rears).

Thanks Phil I'll check mine this weekend.

[peter thomson]

Oh, I forgot to add, are these the ones from the US for the Galant they have? Don't they need to be trimmed slightly with a grinder to fit?

Back to the springs - I have inquired about springs from other sources.

Hypercoil do a whole range of sizes, lengths and rates. I was quoted £35 for a pair a couple of months ago.

Yes they are from the US but not the same design as Carsten(Gly) fitted .They are the sliding ones rather than the cam operated ones and I didn't have to do any grinding.

Latest news from Gary is that he is looking at another coilover supplier and may ask them about helping out with springs.
Gary is also with holding payment to Daiyama until they supply the parts myself and others are waiting for.

Hypercoil sound promising if things don't work out.

[phosty]

Thanks Phil I'll check mine this weekend.

Did you ever manage to measure your adaptor pieces Peter?

Also, where did you find the camber adjusters from? Are they the ones shown in your gallery pics?

P.S. I see you have the same Eonon head-unit I went for. Not the best are they?

[peter thomson]

Hi Phil no haven't had the chance to measure them. At the moment Gary is sourcing new springs from another manufacturer.
Adjusters are from Rock auto in the states and no grinding required.
Yes there ok through an amp but not great. I will replace it when I have some spare money.

[Kieran]

Rock Auto eh? I've used them before. They've supplied a lot of the parts for the coupe that I couldn't get over here - Great prices & Delivery. Unfortunately as they're totally above board they do accurately declare the value on the customs forms. And they use UPS who have more zeal than most in making sure you get charged accordingly!

[peter thomson]

Rock Auto eh? I've used them before. They've supplied a lot of the parts for the coupe that I couldn't get over here - Great prices & Delivery. Unfortunately as they're totally above board they do accurately declare the value on the customs forms. And they use UPS who have more zeal than most in making sure you get charged accordingly!

Yes I got done with customs as well but the price was still great. The problem I had was that Rock didn't put in a value for postage which was only a few dollars but UPS or Fedex decided to value delivery at about $50

[peter thomson]

. At the moment Gary is sourcing new springs from another manufacturer.
.

no further on with this and no reply from Gary . A year now since they were ordered and 10 months since fitted. I wish I had just paid the extra for Teins/pan

[Nutter_John]

take him to the County court on the grounds that the good were never fit for purpose

[peter thomson]

I'm not sure how that works in Scotland but I think I'll have to look in to it.


take him to the County court on the grounds that the good were never fit for purpose

[Nutter_John]

sales of goods act , you have given him more than enough time to resolve the issues and he has failed in his duty as the supplier of the goods

[peter thomson]

I'll try and speak to my local CAB and see how I'm supposed to sort this out.


sales of goods act , you have given him more than enough time to resolve the issues and he has failed in his duty as the supplier of the goods

[phosty]

Maybe we could join up on this then Peter - I still haven't heard anything on my rear springs either (though I haven't been that persistent yet).

[phosty]

I had been musing though that if one was able to feed a modified hand controller a speed signal then it could achieve the variable damping with speed effect. In practice though with stop-start town driving the little stepper motors would probably burn out. You'd need some logic in there so that adjustments were only made after a pre-set duration at certain speeds. The Audi system uses magnetic fields/fluids so avoids the mechanical element and could be constantly varying.



I have also contemplated how I would want an electronic adjustment to work.

my thoughts are that I would want to be able to select between 2 modes, auto and manual. In manual mode the dampers would be adjusted by a single variable resistor (pot) which would adjust the damper settings in % from 0-99 proportionally with % the resistance provided by the pot.

In auto I would want the variable resistor to set the inital damper setting then some way to select between profiles (4 would probably do) that set the speed where the adjustment starts and then the amount of adjustment to give in relation to the speed. ie: Start = 65Kph + 10% @ 100Kph + 10% @ 120Kph + 20% @ 140Kph.
This would create a curve that could be followed at a resolution of say 5Kph. (to save the stepper motors from frying )

Dammit /pan - seems somebody already beat us to the idea!:

https://www.rhdjapan.com/jdm-low/Tanabe-Electric-Active-Suspension-Kit-TEAS-61277


We should have patented the idea last year!

I wonder if it could be persuaded to work on Teins / Daiyamas etc....

[Mark 4]

That looks interesting. I have Tein coilovers at the top of my current shopping list but I may be interested in this kit now.

Do they do a fitment for our cars ?

Anyone else got coilovers on their wish list ?