What new 4x4?

[I-S]

My dad's decided that it's time for him to replace our shogun (1991, 130k, 3.0 V6 LWB GLS).

Requirements:
LWB - must be similar size to shogun
Good off-road capability (live in country in area vulnerable to flooding)
Petrol - dad hates diesel with a passion and won't consider it.
5 seats - 7 not required (but having 7 won't put anything out of contention)

So far off the list:

Shogun - latest model diesel only. Previous 3.5 V6 very weedy compared to landcruiser and pathfinder.
Rangerover - too expensive to run.
Discovery 3 - it's HOW heavy?!
BMW X5 - too expensive to run and not real off road capability.
Porsche Cayenne - it's a porsche.
XC90 - not enough off-road ability, no need for 7 seats, uber-thirsty.
Landcruiser Amazon - toooooo biggggggg

So far possibly on the list:

Subaru outback 3.0 - should have enough off-road ability and better on road.
Landcruiser 4.0 V6 - even the americans think the toyota 4.0 is a fantastic pickup/4x4 engine, and the landcruiser's abilities offroad are beyond question.
Nissan pathfinder 4.0 - better on-road than landcruiser and immensely capable off road. Seems to have better interior than landcruiser, but a bit pricy to buy and heavier than landcruiser.
VW Touareg - better off-road than the likes of the X5. 4.2 V8 affordable to buy but perhaps a bit more costly to run than landcruiser and pathfinder?

Any comments

[NevGroom]

Landcruiser and Pathfinder incredibly "juicy" too but L-Cruiser wins it for me every time.

I use a Shogun Sport and the 3.0l petrol is pretty good as it is much lighter than its "Big Brother"

[I-S]

It doesn't really have the performance that he'd like - 0-60 in 11.2 vs sub 9s for the pathfinder and l/c. It's also only 45kg lighter than the landcruiser and the old shogun.

Even though he hates diesel I think I'm going to have to do my utmost to make him drive a V10 touareg. If he hates it then fine, but 553 lbft....

[WildCards]

Unimog?

[Funkstar]

Unimog?

No need for that. He was only asking.

[I-S]

Unimog?
/pan

[WildCards]

Will it see any proper off road use or is it purely incase of freak weather conditions?
It seems to me the X5, XC90 Toureg, Q7, 4007, C-Crosser, ML etc etc are all lifestyle 4x4's with similiar abilities on and off the road. Yet you've accepted the VW might be an option but not the others, how come?

[Wodjno]

Hi-Lux

:toilet:

[I-S]

The touareg has low-range and centre diffs. The X5, ML, XC90, etc do not. If you do some research (as I am doing) you'll see that the Touareg is much more serious in it's off-road capabilities than the BMW, merc, volvo, etc.

The real requirements are fairly standard country living: cope with mud, snow, uncleared ungritted roads and our steep driveway in the snow, and be able to tow both the trailer and also any stranded cars on the driveway (dad's BMW, the galants) in said conditions, and also be able to ford to 2-3ft depth of water (current floods are freak, but flooding is very common in the area of the severn valley that they live - the local pub closes when the water reaches the top of the patron's wellingtons. Yes, it floods that often). Lifestyle 4x4s won't cut it.

No pick-ups. Another required use is being able to tie very large oil paintings to the roof, so long roof is required.

[pezza]

The V10 VW has staggering performance I was almost hounded off the road in the VR4 before high boost days /yes

A pal of mine has landcruiser 3.4 V6 I believe, its smooth quiet and worked a treat in the floods and off road/ landslide terrain. Nice comfy interior too.. Not neck breakingly quick like VW but still dint seem sloooooooooooow.

[WildCards]

The touareg has low-range and centre diffs. The X5, ML, XC90, etc do not. If you do some research (as I am doing) you'll see that the Touareg is much more serious in it's off-road capabilities than the BMW, merc, volvo, etc.

The real requirements are fairly standard country living: cope with mud, snow, uncleared ungritted roads and our steep driveway in the snow, and be able to tow both the trailer and also any stranded cars on the driveway (dad's BMW, the galants) in said conditions, and also be able to ford to 2-3ft depth of water (current floods are freak, but flooding is very common in the area of the severn valley that they live - the local pub closes when the water reaches the top of the patron's wellingtons. Yes, it floods that often). Lifestyle 4x4s won't cut it.

No pick-ups. Another required use is being able to tie very large oil paintings to the roof, so long roof is required.


Fair enough, i'm not about to do a load of research for you but i'm happy to throw in suggestions, such as the new Peugeot 4007, Citroen C-Crosser and Audi Q7 although I doubt they'll have the fancy diffs. I'm quite surprised about the VW, I didn't realise they'd built it to be so rugged.

[I-S]

The C-crosser and 4007 are just rebadged mitsubishi outlanders, and are in a very different weight/power/size class - there's also no petrol outlander yet, but where there is it's only a 2.4 4-cyl; a far cry from the big V6 4x4s. They're damn good cars in their class, but they're up against CR-V, RAV4 and the freeloader.

Q7 is a more expensive variation of the touareg (as is the cayenne, but it's still a porsche).

[WildCards]

So the Toerag, Q7 and Cayenne aren't the same vehicle underneath then? I always thought they were. I presume you/your dad aren't porker fans then.

[I-S]

Yes, they are, but they're different variations of it. Cayenne is the sporting on-road version which is compromised off-road, and also carries the VERY wrong badge. Q7 is the more up-market, expensive version. Touareg is the "basic" version, although basic in this case means mostly phaeton bits in the cabin (like the bentleys) - it's also the most capable as an off-road vehicle.

[stuey]

Is the RangeRover really that expensive to run? That V8 is a brilliant engine.. i thought they had the best occasional off-road ability too....

[bradc]

Q7 V12 Twin Turbo Diesel :D

If he doesn't want to go with that then my next choice would be the Toureg V10, and if he really doesn't want diesel then one of the Jap 4x4's would be the next best bet

[richard_v6]

toyota surf

[I-S]

Stuey - He already has that V8 in his 740iL, and it's proven none too reliable...

Q7 too expensive - looking at 20-25k s/h max budget probably.

[thecustomer]

sounds like two cars to me /pan

1 an old diesel Land Rover (with snorkel) for towing & flood work

2 any of the others you fancy, with the choice based on *not* towing or getting feet wet.

?

Will

[g8legnum]

As my son-in-law runs a VW Touareg (he's a bit of a poser) I can give a personal view of those vehicles. For me the vehicle is unnecessarily big externally and has big seats which leads to very tight headroom. I'm just under 6' and my head was touching the roof in both front and back. Not a comforting thought if any form of broken surface is likely to be traversed. /Grrr For me I would look at the last of the real Range-Rovers before BMW messed around with the body style. :happy:

[WildCards]

For me I would look at the last of the real Range-Rovers before BMW messed around with the body style. :happy:


mmm, Overfinch :scholar:

[Paul Beazer]

what about range rover sport? Clarkson seemed to like them, not that says much!

[I-S]

Old style RR - too weak engine and very thirsty, and questionable reliability. Overfinches silly running costs

RR sport - too thirsty.

[stuey]

Old style RR - too weak engine and very thirsty, and questionable reliability. Overfinches silly running costs

RR sport - too thirsty.

Ah... Ya see, i'd have thought the other way round. the overfinch engine has such huge masses of torque the fuel useage at 'normal' driving would be about the same. chevy v8 and rover v8 have very similar mpg... and chevy v8 service costs are very very cheap..

[White Lightning]

What about the Merc G55 AMG ?

[ariddell]

How about the Jeep Grand Cherokee, ok you have to put up with the American interior quality but they're a bargain second hand.


My mother had one for a good few years and was very happy with it, drove it a few times and it certainly wasn't slow with the 4.7v8.

[I-S]

What about the Merc G55 AMG ?

Not looking at spending that much, and mum hates mercs with a passion. Oh, and small matter of not owning an oil well...

Old Grand Cherokee might not fit the bill, but the new one might, and perhaps the Commander also - hadn't thought of Jeep, so thanks for that angle.

[Rossco Type-S]

I came across a 6 Litre W12 Touareg in a Japanese auction. Think they are LHD only though

[I-S]

Well, he bought a Landcruiser Invincible D4D. The Invincible spec has an uprated engine, which is noticeably perkier than the standard D4D. 210bhp vs 170bhp, and an extra 60Nm torque too.

[Robotnik123]

How about a Hummer H3? ;)