Shaft Play

[mpau009]

and not the kind you usually find on the internet/pan

After almost 9 hours, there is now a gaping hole where my gearbox used to be:afro: Turns out someone has had the transfer case off before, and kindly left a bolt out, one that according to dickytims instructions was supposed to be there... cue a 1/2 hour squinting and fiddling, before i finally decide to just wack it, and hey!

Anyhoo, while iv got the car on stands iv been looking for the cause of a bit of smoke that iv been getting at WOT, and after cold starts. There is a little bit of oil in piping, but not a whole lot in the scheme of things, and mostly stuck to the walls of the pipes.

I decided to have a look at the turbos, and this is what iv found. Does anyone know if this is normal, or are they getting a bit old? It wasnt on my to do list, but they have been running .9ish bar for the past 20,000ks SO if i have to do it, it might as well be now:thinking: :5shots:

The front has a little bit of a wiggle in the shaft, probably less than a mm, but still noticable.. what are the implacation of that? ie: boom, bang kurplunk, plunk... or what?

The rear, has a neat little pattern of oil sprayed out around the compressor side, and i guess must be blame for the occasional smoking? Fix it, or live with it?

Any advice welcome, as long as its not 'you need two $700 rebuilds':P

[Gly]

there getting old, there shouldnt be any shaft play,
rebuild kits cost around 150+ (each) depending on how complete a kit,
but these "kits" tend to only be made to factory specs,
the problem is that the turbo may not be factory spec anymore,
the bearing seats may have worn which will still allow play in the shafe and over time they will just get to the same stage again.

and will cost $250+ each for a pro to rebuild and balance them properly,
with over size bearings and seals.

worst that could happen,
they eventally blowup, and send oil/metal down your turbo pipes,

personally thats what i know will happen to mine, and at that stage ill look into upgrading.

[mpau009]

and will cost $250+ each for a pro to rebuild and balance them properly,
with over size bearings and seals.

worst that could happen,
they eventally blowup, and send oil/metal down your turbo pipes

I'm guessing that will bugger the engine too?

$250 sounds reasonabl-ish, where did i get the $700 figure in my head from then:thinking:.

Do you know of a reputable place, or should i just have a hunt around?

[Gly]

wont bugger the engine...
most of it will be caught in the pipe work...
just dont drive it after they've blown.

steve mertch(sp?)

i didnt say it was gonna be $250 each i said $250+ each...
i was being conservitive, and going from what i have read on other forums.

[Nick Mann]

They are well worn. As said, the shaft play ideally should be undetectible with the finger in each end method, but also your blades are rounding off at the leading corners. They were square when the turbo was built. I would personally say find some second hand turbos with no shaft play and square blade corners and fit them. Its a lot less than refurbing and might last as long.

[bradc]

I'll put Steve Murch's details up here tonight, he knows what he is doing :)

[mpau009]

Thanks guys, i'll have a little bit of a hunt around today..

[Gly]

just something i noticed...

is that the intake side of the turbos? (behind the maf)
whys the oil on the intake side?

wouldnt it normally be on the motor side behind the turbos in the turbo to IC pipework?
(oil getting blown thru rather than sucked in as it appears to be?)

maybe try install a catch can or inline filter between th rocker covers and intake pipe?

[mpau009]

Yeah, the other side is even oilier..

How come it would only be oily on the one turbo though if there was oil in the intake?



Iv got them both off now, OMFG what a **** of a job, not one bolt wanted to come free, coolant and oil everywhere. But hopefully i'll see if theres someone to take them to later in the week, when the blood pressure comes down a bit:P

Have any luck with those details Brad?

I asked timo if he still had his new ones, but they were just sold. I might go have a look at his older ones, and see if they are any better candidates for new seals.

[Subaru ETA]

id say they are ****ed....altech diesel and turbo on the shore are good.

personally id be getting them refurbed, especially since you will prob be runnig high bosst when you get the map ecu tuned!

[mpau009]

id say they are ****ed....altech diesel and turbo on the shore are good.

personally id be getting them refurbed, especially since you will prob be running high bosst when you get the map ecu tuned!

Yeah, their name popped up a few times in my hunting, plus they are quite close which is a bonus. I might swing by with them after work for an opinion about the state of those compressor wheels.

[bradc]

Steve Murch

810 7009
021 529 781

102 McEntee Rd
Waitakere

[Subaru ETA]

btw, i have volenteered you to do my clutch for me! thanks mate :D

[bradc]

sounds like another workshop day!

[Subaru ETA]

haha, my back is far to bung to be doing it on the floor...im gonna have to get it into work one friday and do it on the hoist

[mpau009]

btw, i have volenteered you to do my clutch for me! thanks mate :D

Getting it out is okay, iv even finally figured out how to seperate the clutch from the release bearing:2thumbsup

But I have a horrible feeling that putting it all back together will be a much more time consuming ordeal:thinking: So stand by for a barrage of where did that go again questions:P At least i'll be able to take my time with it.

Plus i snapped one of the studs that holds the turbo to the manifold, so iv got that hassle to sort out as well. Its always the last friggin bolt/pan.

[mpau009]

Steve Murch

810 7009
021 529 781

102 McEntee Rd
Waitakere

Thanks Brad, i'll see if he can help me out as well.

[Subaru ETA]

haha my mate broke all the turbo bolts when he did his!

id say lining it up is gonna be your biggest mission

[bradc]

I'm always available to help

[mpau009]

I'm always available to help

Careful what you wish for :deal2:

I'm sending off the flywheel to SRD tommorrow, so i'll have a week or so to sort things out, i'm going to do the fuel pump, and am currently having a sneaky look at yours and others cold air boxes, to steal the best ideas from each. Hopefully i'll have a mass producable thing-a-majig when its finished:afro:

I should definately need some help when its time for re-assembly if anyone is interested.

First things first i guess has to be the turbos though/Grrr

[SHOWVR]

I asked timo if he still had his new ones, but they were just sold. I might go have a look at his older ones, and see if they are any better candidates for new seals.

sorry mate i bought them, he still has his old ones.....

[mpau009]

Hmmmm, not good news.:thumbsdow

its $175+gst for a turbo kit, plus 4.5ish hours labour to fit and balance.. each.

But my front one is beyond that, apparently it needs a new core assembly which would be $1100 plus fitting.

Which is ****n rediculous.

BTW, new Td-03's retail at $1900+gst EACH.

I'll have a word to timo and see if his are any better..

If not it might seriously be worth considering some other options, i can bum a lot of the labour involved in making manifolds, but does anyone know a single setup that is similar to the current pair and wont provide so much that it blows the stock internals to pieces?

So i am officially on the hunt for decent condition second hand turbos, a single that i can relocate and run off the MAP2, or maybe some td-04s.

Might be time to see if Allbeitmines setup is still around?:thinking::speechles

[Kenneth]

Hmmmm, not good news.:thumbsdow

its $175+gst for a turbo kit, plus 4.5ish hours labour to fit and balance.. each.

But my front one is beyond that, apparently it needs a new core assembly which would be $1100 plus fitting.

Which is ****n rediculous.

BTW, new Td-03's retail at $1900+gst EACH.

I'll have a word to timo and see if his are any better..

If not it might seriously be worth considering some other options, i can bum a lot of the labour involved in making manifolds, but does anyone know a single setup that is similar to the current pair and wont provide so much that it blows the stock internals to pieces?

So i am officially on the hunt for decent condition second hand turbos, a single that i can relocate and run off the MAP2, or maybe some td-04s.

Might be time to see if Allbeitmines setup is still around?:thinking::speechles

Not sure what condition they are in, but I have a set of spare turbos. You may want to get them looked at to see what they are worth or if they need any work done.

[mpau009]

Not sure what condition they are in, but I have a set of spare turbos. You may want to get them looked at to see what they are worth or if they need any work done.

Thats a point, do you not want them for your engine rebuilding project?

I think i need to have a serious think about what to do, and sort things out $ wise for down the track.

Iv had a mate offer to build manifolds and extractors before, so i might take him up once hes finished the year at uni.

Time for me to spend a few days reading old CVR4 posts i think:thinking:

Are the compressor wheels rounded off like my front one on yours Kenneth?

there may be bigger problems too that i need to investigate, a lot of that oil is coming from the breather system, so there may be something not quite right with the engine as well.

Definately time to call in some people in the know i think.

I'll see if i can get a prototype air box this coming week (been CADed off my model, just got to print one out first to make sure its still close enough, took my mate 4 hours to draw/Devil5 teach him to offer to help me..), then i'll pop round with that, your flywheel, and have a look at those turbos if that suits you.

[Gly]

a new-ish evo turbo would provide about the same power
(evo4+ are tdo5's in various setups and are all twin scroll)
there maybe a little loss low down, but will be made of for with a better top end,

they can be had fairly cheap, and after reading thru the FTO/6a13 single turbo build, and ako's single on a 6a12, looks easily do-able
for a resonable price.

a single turbo, ex evo, $400-$1000 depending on condition/modified, which evo it was from etc.

extra top mount manifold, $100??

flanges+pipe, $200-$300 max,

welding? guess it depends on who you know?

new oil/water lines $200??

then theres your time.

so maybe $1000-$1500

guess it really depends on how fast you need to get the car running again??

if i was in your shoes, i wouldnt be thinking twice about doing this...
unless kens turbos are mint and going cheap.

a single turbo will be easier to recon/upgrade/fix in future if needed?


OH AND>>>

Fully keen on helping out with this if you do decide to go down this route.


.

[bradc]

I've got a spare rear manifold if you choose to go down the single route Mike, I'll give it to you if you get the job done!

[mpau009]

Thanks guys, theres not really much of a hurry to get the car back together, its more of a $ thing, since iv already spent a bit on clutch and flywheel, but i think GLY's type of idea is not too far off the mark.

I havent even considered a single conversion really, so i need to spend a bit of time getting my head around it, and talking to the guy/s who would have to do a lot of the metal work for me.

I see a new td-05 is around $750 on trademe:thinking:

I can see this being the type of project to get out of hand real quick though:thinking: :pimp2:

[Subaru ETA]

what you driving at the mo bro?? ive seen a subbie parked at your work lately ...tisk tisk

[bradc]

I saw Mike driving a truck out of his work a few days ago :)

[Gly]

dont get your head around it!!

then you start thinking to much!! about the issues there might be,

jump head in first! :) no thinking just doing! LOL!

[mpau009]

what you driving at the mo bro?? ive seen a subbie parked at your work lately ...tisk tisk

Yeah, the work truck a bit, but iv got mums old 06 Imprezza, apart from being bright red, and and auto:inquisiti its a pretty good car:lipseal - plus i'm saving about $35/40 a week in gas:speechles, haven had to fill up for a week and a half..

I think the best idea might just be to sort out the clutch, i should have the flywheel in the next week, then i can get it all back together minus the turbos, and have a look at the clearance for pipework and that when the engine is mounted back normal instead of swinging from a crane.

Either way it might finally be time to look for a job that uses my uni degrees, to pay for it all:thinking::greedy:

[bradc]

well if you need any help, you know who to call!

BTW, the best way to save fuel is to get a 2005 Nisan Pulsar and a fuel card given to you.....that doesn't mean it is a good car though!

[mpau009]

well if you need any help, you know who to call!

BTW, the best way to save fuel is to get a 2005 Nisan Pulsar and a fuel card given to you.....that doesn't mean it is a good car though!

Yeah, i think i might need to organise a "put the things i cant quite remember back on / crazy turbo schemeing party in a few weeks":afro: :pimp2:

Frankly i wouldnt mind having that 96 diesel toyota truck as a work car, even if i had to pay for gas, goes hard until it rains/rally

[You See]

Hey Mike, my mate had a couple of standard turbo's lying around 80ks on them...will ask if you keen? :D

[mpau009]

Hey Mike, my mate had a couple of standard turbo's lying around 80ks on them...will ask if you keen? :D

Still thinking, and chatting to people at the moment, but im definately keen for a price if you could. I'm starting to warm to the single turbo idea too though..:thinking:

Spent several hours today lookng through old posts, and it definately is do-able for not tooooo stupid money:inquisiti Would be a fun project to have a go at too.

[You See]

No worries, will let you know once I hear! :D
hmm, single turbo...interestinggggg :P