Head gaskets ?

[zentac]

Anyone know of an uprated head gasket for the VR4?

[Nick Mann]

Nope. I remember BDA talking about copper gaskets once? But I think that was based on theory or gaskets from other projects rather than a known availability.

[Spirit]

As Nick says, and AP didn't know of any either

[zentac]

ok, Im going to get some made up then, I will get 5 sets at 1mm thick, normal ones are 0.5mm thick (They will be from a well known respected supplier) so I will have 4 sets up for grabs. First 4 people to shout up can have a set, I will let you know how much when I know.

[Spirit]

Sounds a good idea Richard, especially considering the Mitsy price for standard /Grrr

[Eurospec]

The std mitsy multi layer ones do seem pretty tough. I would have thought the heads will deform before it actually blows the gasket out, though i dont *KNOW* that.

I have a set of copper gaskets sitting here for my gto. Remember they need to be significantly thicker because the copper will deform a lot.

The reason i neve used them was that even under the high compression they would be under when between a torqued down head and block, the open face would still see the flame front, and det will certainly seek it out.

If it did, i didnt fancy the chances of copper.

Saying that there is no science in that, just gut feel. Its soft afterall.

But lots of top cars do use them. Serdi would probably cut a set for you.

Cheers,

Ben.

[zentac]

it probably wont be copper ones I get made up.

[Nick Mann]

Copper is very good at conducting heat, so can withstand short blasts of heat without melting, simply due to the fact it moves heat around so quickly. It could take the heat to the water from the flame faster than most other things you are likely to put there.

With a small addition of say 2% chrome, it will become harder, stiffer and more temperature resistant whilst retaining most of its conductivity.

Having said all of that, I have no practical experience of copper as a head gasket material, so I can't say with any conviction whether it is a good idea or not.

[Kenneth]

it probably wont be copper ones I get made up.

I am interested, depending (as usual) on the price. I actually need a set for the engine I stripped down, so its not really a case of "nice to have" at this point.

[Louis]

A lot of high compression engines use "O" rings and standard gaskets.

A groove is cut on the face of the block, and on the face of the head, they match up, and wire is placed in the groove when re assembling.

Hard to explain, but looking down from above onto a block, the groove creates a 4mm(ish) larger circle than the bore, and there is a matching groove on the head.
The idea being that if the groove on the block is a 0.5mm semi circular groove, and the groove on the head is a 0.5mm semi circle, then when all bolted to gether, there is a 1mm wire which fits between the two when mated up, creating a better seal, any engine shop that skims or bores should be able to do the work.
Google it to find out more.

[Louis]

This link might explain it better (with photos etc). I had it done before on an engine, with real good results

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/hardcore/0307pon_ringing/

[bradc]

I'm interested as well, as long as they are going to be very strong and capable of withstanding huge amounts of power.

What exactly is the benefit of moving to a 1mm thick headgasket over a 0.5mm? Is it reducing compression ratio or making it stronger?

[zentac]

I'm interested as well, as long as they are going to be very strong and capable of withstanding huge amounts of power.

What exactly is the benefit of moving to a 1mm thick headgasket over a 0.5mm? Is it reducing compression ratio or making it stronger?

They will be stronger than the originals and will slightly change the compression ratio, also it will increase the piston to head clearance so if I (or you) have a big end failure your less likley to totally write off your expensive ported heads ;)

[Eurospec]

A lot of high compression engines use "O" rings and standard gaskets.

A groove is cut on the face of the block, and on the face of the head, they match up, and wire is placed in the groove when re assembling.

Hard to explain, but looking down from above onto a block, the groove creates a 4mm(ish) larger circle than the bore, and there is a matching groove on the head.
The idea being that if the groove on the block is a 0.5mm semi circular groove, and the groove on the head is a 0.5mm semi circle, then when all bolted to gether, there is a 1mm wire which fits between the two when mated up, creating a better seal, any engine shop that skims or bores should be able to do the work.
Google it to find out more.

Thats excellent advice right there!

For really big motors, O ringing is definately something to look into.

Cheers,

Ben.

[zentac]

O rings are a nice idea, and if Id have thought of it earlier I would probably have got it done, but its a little late now to be sending the block and heads off.

[cslotay]

rpw.com.au have decompression head gaskets for 6a13 engine. They range from 0.8mm upwards to I think 2mm.

Anyway I recently changed my headgaskets because the timing belt broke and valves got bent. I ordered original mitsu gaskets and also got a head gasket set for the 6a13 from the US.

The gasket set(AJUSA Pno: 52156100 -www.ajusa.es) arrived with the same manifold gaskets and also the head gaskets were similar to the stock gaskets. It also had similar valve stem seals. The gaskets however had only 2 steel layers unlike the stock MLS gaskets which have 3 steel layers. However the AJUSA gaskets seemed to have a thicker cold sealing viton/silicon layer and had a silicon/viton stopper ring on the inside surfaces. The stock gaskets have a steel stopper ring in the middle layer.


After alot of research on all the different types of gaskets I concluded that MLS gaskets were the toughest because they are made from spring steel and are not easy to blow. However they do seem hard to seal if the surface finish is not good.

Also check Bimmerforums.com - some of the guys there are running 30psi boost with MLS gaskets. I would consider ARP studs tightened real good and water injection if I was to run at high boost. Stock TTY head bolts use angle tightening and mine broke when I tried following the AJUSA method of tightening to 11kgm.(they did not seem tight enough using the stock method i.e 20NM + 120deg + 120deg.

[Eurospec]

O rings are a nice idea, and if Id have thought of it earlier I would probably have got it done, but its a little late now to be sending the block and heads off.

If the tops arent on it mate, i'd still do it.

Cheers,

Ben.

[Roadrunner]

Richard,

Did you ever get these uprated head gaskets made? I'm looking for a stonger set for my VR-4.

Cheers,
Brian

P.S. "zentac has exceeded their stored private messages quota and can not accept further messages until they clear some space." ;)

[zentac]

no, we are running standard ones.

[Roadrunner]

Thanks Richard :)

[Wodjno]

Has anyone ever known of a blown head gasket on a VR4 ?

[bradc]

Robotnik had problems with one of his gaskets and got his engine rebuilt. Haven't heard of anyone else though

[The Vee]

Very rarely, although I think one or two have been "suspected"

[Davezj]

I had mine replaced, when i did the cambelt etc.

However i now know it was not necessary now.


I had a water pump fail (lots a lot of coolant) and the water temp got to top of the gauge, but then water pump sealed it self again. all seamed ok.
Then we had a very cold snap in the weather and temp dropped, this is when i started get massive amounts of white smoke out the back of the exhaust (5" back box exit), But this i no now is normal as it just the condensation/water build up boiling off. It does it when ever it is cold, or rained hard.

Any way to cut a long story short when the heads were removed they looked fine and were flat, but had them skimmed anyway and a new standard gasket. As camskill told me i was the first person to order them from camskill, and since then they have supplied them as one of there standard parts. probably had to order 10-20 set to make the postage viable.

[Roadrunner]

I replaced the head gaskets on my previous VR-4 - rear gasket had gone - at about 87k miles.

[Robotnik123]

Robotnik had problems with one of his gaskets and got his engine rebuilt. Haven't heard of anyone else though

Old thread, but anyway, yes I did. Cost me over $3000 to have done.

[scott.mohekey]

The std mitsy multi layer ones do seem pretty tough. I would have thought the heads will deform before it actually blows the gasket out, though i dont *KNOW* that.

I can confirm that this is true, at least of the NA v6.

[scott.mohekey]

Also, a couple of mechanic type people I've talked to here in Christchurch have said that vr4s are known for blowing head gaskets.

[zentac]

Ive not known one blow a head gasket, and Im running over 500bhp. I have had 2 different custom ones made up though so Im going to try those as I want another 200bhp out of it.

[Eurospec]

I'm still using genuine mitsu ones on the gto. I had a set of copper ones made up, but never used them.

The issue will be more likely flexing of the head decks rather than blowing out the gaskets.

The cooling gantries are close in behind the squish areas, and these will bend under very high load, which will cause the gasket to be breached and the car will 'push coolant'. You take the heads off, drill a hole in the squish area, put in an ally post and weld it all back up. This will support the deck better and prevent the issue.

Cheers,

Ben.