MAPECU2 - Its good - and here is the proof!

[TWSTD]

Yesterday I had Mark at tricky tune, tune up my Charade Gtti race car. We managed 137.5kw at the wheels (184.3HP) on 20psi. Not bad for a little 1L motor! Whats more, as you can see from the 1st dyno sheet we started out with 71.3kw on abount 12psi boost on the factory ECU alone. Thats one VERY respectable increase in anyones books!

As you can see from the dyno sheets below we kept the fueling fairly rich at between 11 and 11.5 on full boost. We noticed there were good power gains to be had with leaner mixtures, but in the name of reliability (if there is such a thing in a race car!) we put more fuel in (as these little 3-banger 20 year old engines need it rich to stay in 1 piece).

I think this makes it fairly clear that the MAPECU2 is a very capable piece of kit - particularly for the price! For those of you in NZ,

http://www.drivenperformance.co.nz/ $899+GST


I know we have run a group buy offer for this club before, and many of you were skeptical or hesitant to purchase. I am sure you all agree that this is superb equipment for the price!


DYNO SHEETS:

[Gly]

yes its a god bit of kit.

sorry we are currently clamping down on bussness adverting on the site,
if you wish to advertise your products and site on club vr4 you will have to pay for trader status or be invited by the committee to join the forums.

your site links have been remove for this reason...

if you wish to join the forums as a trader please pm any of the NZ committee
trader status allows you to advertise on our site,
you get banner space/time, and a mini webpage on the front page.

thanks
Carsten

[bradc]

Hello Alaric! (brad from nfc, met you a few times)

Have you sold your Caldina yet?

[TWSTD]

Hi Carsten.

Sorry - I thought we were already set up as a trader, as we initially offered the club a pre-purchase group buy on these ECUs? Please accept my appologies if I was wrong in this assumption!

Please also excuse my late reply - but it seems I do not get email notifications of replies on this forum.

And Hey Brad - how ya doing mate? Still at NFC? Yes we sold the caldina last year... workin on a new wagon at the moment actually - its in the ship getting its kit installed as we speak. :-)

Feel free to email me, as i dont seem to get notifications from this board.

All the best,

AL
Driven Performance LTD

[bradc]

nahh not there any more, the owners were going bust, so I got out of there! Doing more onsite service and stuff now, learning heaps and enjoying it

[Gly]

currently in disscusions as whats going to happen with traders for NZ

for now, those that wish to buy from you are free to do so....


www.drivenperformance.co.nz


ill PM you later if you wanna be an official NZ Trader?
feel free to edit your prices back in, etc.

[zentac]

No doubting this is a good piece of kit, but its a bit of a 1 sided argument, "We upped the boost, use a better fuel map and got more power." That goes without saying.

The kits main selling point use to be (amongst other things) it will allow you to run without a MAF, as a MAF is believed to be restrictive and hence you get more power by not having one. So it would have been nice to see power figures with a MAF fitted and without a MAF fitted, keeping the same boost levels and fuel map. Even if the MAF wasn’t hooked up. Otherwise you could get the same results running a cheap fuel computer and $50 boost bleed valve.

I know a few people who are thinking about buying these in the UK at the moment, but until someone posts up results like that theres no evidence they are any better/worse that a normal boost/ignition/fuel computer. (ie megaquirt, DTA D8PRO etc.. )

[Gowf]

No doubting this is a good piece of kit, but its a bit of a 1 sided argument, "We upped the boost, use a better fuel map and got more power." That goes without saying.

The kits main selling point use to be (amongst other things) it will allow you to run without a MAF, as a MAF is believed to be restrictive and hence you get more power by not having one. So it would have been nice to see power figures with a MAF fitted and without a MAF fitted, keeping the same boost levels and fuel map. Even if the MAF wasn’t hooked up. Otherwise you could get the same results running a cheap fuel computer and $50 boost bleed valve.

I know a few people who are thinking about buying these in the UK at the moment, but until someone posts up results like that theres no evidence they are any better/worse that a normal boost/ignition/fuel computer. (ie megaquirt, DTA D8PRO etc.. )


I doubt you would get the same results with a cheap fuel computer and bleed valve.....
For a start all the cheap fuel controllers out there use throttle possition as a measure of load, where as the MAP2 uses rpm vs MAP.
You have also failed to mention the timing control that is available with the MAP2 and all the other extras such as launch control, rpm switch, nos control etc.
And as for bleed valves if there were a perfectly good and safe way of making boost surely all the aftermarket EBC's would have gone bust by now? You can not control the boost effienciently enough with a dawes device. Fine if you want to run a little bit more, but if you want proper control EBC is the only way.

There are results out there but what you have to keep in mind is that the majority of people are after reliability as well as performance... so there is no way i would be pushing someone elses car to its limits. Mine yes, and we shall soon see just what the map2 is capable of.

And if you are unsure of the relative benifits of running without a MAF then look on the FTO forum as there are plenty of people there who have results of running a MAP ecu.

[TWSTD]

I disagree with you there sorry zentac. It seems you are missing the bottom line here, and that is by using this ECU you can safely and reliably obtain power increases from you engine. In modern engines there is not the "Free available power" to be tapped that there used to be in older motors - so the addition of aftermarket engine management (of *ANY* kind) will yield very little results in the way of power increases. The way to get more power is to increase boost levels, change cam profiles, free up exhaust flows etc etc etc - and ALL of those require tuning - something that you need some form of aftermarket management to do. Just say upping the boost to 20psi in my particular case would not have made for a reliable vehicle - in fact the motor probably would not have lasted the dyno session out!

So my point is this: An aftermarket engine management unit will allow you to tune for modifications / additions to your engine and allow you to safely and reliably do things like increase boost levels. Of course the MAPECU2 also has the benefit of allowing removal of the MAF - but dont expect massive power gains just by doing that. And thats true of ALL engine managements - not just this unit.

[mpau009]

I doubt you would get the same results with a cheap fuel computer and bleed valve.....
For a start all the cheap fuel controllers out there use throttle possition as a measure of load, where as the MAP2 uses rpm vs MAP.
You have also failed to mention the timing control that is available with the MAP2 and all the other extras such as launch control, rpm switch, nos control etc.
And as for bleed valves if there were a perfectly good and safe way of making boost surely all the aftermarket EBC's would have gone bust by now? You can not control the boost effienciently enough with a dawes device. Fine if you want to run a little bit more, but if you want proper control EBC is the only way.

There are results out there but what you have to keep in mind is that the majority of people are after reliability as well as performance... so there is no way i would be pushing someone elses car to its limits. Mine yes, and we shall soon see just what the map2 is capable of.

true that, but i can get what Zentac says about the tangible aspects of the increase being hidden by a big hike in boost. Also the fact that the map still lacks the ability to monitor knock takes the shine off its ability to adjust ignition in my opinion.

And yes, id take electronic boost control any day.

Is your car in the tuning stage yet? That was the one with td-04's right? Are you going to do it yourself? Id be keen to have a chat since i am tossing up whether to tune my one, or wait and pay someone to do it, or a combo of both..

[Gowf]

No it doesnt moniter knock, but a knock link and 109RON certianly does!

Mine will be in the tuning stages very very soon. I'm still getting the manifolds sorted out as ive been very fussy with them and now want bigger tubs on there. The plan is to run 13G's off a uk 3000GT to start with to see what sort of power can be got from them. Then its 19T's and a load of NOS. Its all being done myself apart from the manifold manufacture. It should be an interesting bit of kit when done.

[zentac]

No it doesnt moniter knock, but a knock link and 109RON certianly does!

Mine will be in the tuning stages very very soon. I'm still getting the manifolds sorted out as ive been very fussy with them and now want bigger tubs on there. The plan is to run 13G's off a uk 3000GT to start with to see what sort of power can be got from them. Then its 19T's and a load of NOS. Its all being done myself apart from the manifold manufacture. It should be an interesting bit of kit when done.


Who is doing the manifolds for you, I need to have a chat with a company near me about doing mine next week (the boss has been on holiday for 2 weeks)

[zentac]

And if you are unsure of the relative benifits of running without a MAF then look on the FTO forum as there are plenty of people there who have results of running a MAP ecu.

yeah but again no one on the FTO forum has dyno'd with and without a MAF using the same fueling settings.

[Eurospec]

. Also the fact that the map still lacks the ability to monitor knock takes the shine off its ability to adjust ignition in my opinion.
..
Right now that is true, but the latest version of the firmware which is uploadable onto all units has knock monitoring/control. Its in testing now i believe.

Cheers,

Ben.

[Gowf]

yeah but again no one on the FTO forum has dyno'd with and without a MAF using the same fueling settings.


I can see where your coming from, but as you know the results that can be gained from using a MAP1 on an FTO then i dont see the need for the discussion on it. You compare the results with lets say 'a cheap fuel controler' and then see what you think.

End of the day, the MAP2 is an affordable piggy back that does work and has a hell of a lot going for it. To do everything that it can using individual items would cost you a lot more.

At the end of the day, i wouldnt have bought one if they werent of any use.

As for manifolds, im not an advocate of selling anything/singing peoples praises for an unproven product. When its all together and working fine, then i shall talk more about it as there is no point going on about how great things are when they only may last 5 seconds or be a complete pile of ****.

Spirit: Please remember this is a family forum. Please refrain from using such words.