Air Con

[Jerry Shaw]

I'm sorry if this has been asked before but I cant seem to find anything specific in a search.

I have just bought a 98 2.0 GLS estate and am very happy that everything works as it should apart from the air con.

It doesnt get cold at all and the compressor doesnt seem to kick in when I press the switch and turn the fans on.

I am fairly competant with electrical stuff and so my basic questions are:

a) Is there anything other than the switch that needs to be on? Apart from the fans.

b) The fuse is ok but the relay doesnt seem to click either, is there anything else connected that I should check before I assume the compressor is duff?

I hope that made sense.

Thanks, Jerry.

[Rambaud]

I had similar problems with one of my previous cars (Audi 90 quattro).


IIRC, lack of gas can prevent the air-con coming on - I could be wrong as I also had a duff compressor! :(

[Nick VR4]

Sounds like you need a re-gas unless the AC is used it kinda dries up and stops working

[Wouter]

^^^^^What they said! ^^^^^

[Jerry Shaw]

^^^^^What they said! ^^^^^

LOL, thanks.

I did wonder if there was a pressure switch somewhere that would maybe disable the system if the pressure got above or below certain values.

What should I be looking for on a system that is working fine?

[ANTHONY]

What should I be looking for on a system that is working fine? cold air

[Beastlee]

Get a £30 Artic Freeze top up can and hose/connector. Youll see straight away if it's low and may save some money if it has been holed as you will know without the extra call-out cost.

[SGHOM]

cold air

/haz /haz

[Jerry Shaw]

cold air

:inquisiti lol

Ok, I'll elaboroate. I have noticed what looks to be a sight glass on top of the condenser.

Should anything be going on in there?

I am assuming the engine speed will lower as the compresor kicks in and it should be audiable.


Get a £30 Artic Freeze top up can and hose/connector. Youll see straight away if it's low and may save some money if it has been holed as you will know without the extra call-out cost.


I have just had a look on the Halfrauds website at these kits. Do they only top up or is there enough refrigerant to completely fill the system?

Obviously I have no idea on how much it takes to recharge from empty.

[Paul Beazer]

All full dry and re gas should only cost £80 (not from a dealership). Search for air con in the yellow pages...

[Beastlee]

Ok, I'll elaboroate. I have noticed what looks to be a sight glass on top of the condenser.

Should anything be going on in there?
There should be a green fluid in there when running, no bubbles should be present as this indicates low gas/ air in system.


I am assuming the engine speed will lower as the compresor kicks in and it should be audiable.
At any speed the compressor clicks as it builds up pressure.


I have just had a look on the Halfrauds website at these kits. Do they only top up or is there enough refrigerant to completely fill the system?

Obviously I have no idea on how much it takes to recharge from empty.

Aa Far As I Know (AFAIK) it should be. The main point is that they normally have a guage and it would allow you to pressure test the system for leaks at minimal cost to you.

If you're in th Suffolk area I have a full can here and would be willing to let you try it out if it helps.

[Jerry Shaw]

Sorry, double post for some reason.

[Jerry Shaw]

There should be a green fluid in there when running, no bubbles should be present as this indicates low gas/ air in system.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you're in th Suffolk area I have a full can here and would be willing to let you try it out if it helps.

The sight glass is clear. Lol, I'm not even sure if the system is actually operational but if it is a case of putting some juice in it, then its worth a go.

Thanks for the offer but I am in Scun thorpe so its a tad too far.

Hmm, another text filter that wont allow S****horpe, lol, They should change the name of this town, lol

[Kieran]

If you are going to use a recharge kit, that's fine but make sure you don't over pressurise the A/C system - The gauge will probably be marked with 'safe' and 'danger' zones, but don't rely on these - they're generic.

FYI - According to the service manuals, with an ambient temperature of 20 degrees C, the discharge temperature at the air vents should be between 2.5~4.5 C (with maximum cooling, air recirc selected and max fan speed, at an engine speed of 1000rpm). The low pressure side of the A/C system (where you fill it with a recharge can) should read between 40-135kPa (5-19psi).

[Beastlee]

Jerry,

I used to live in Lincoln until last year, always the way isn't it!

[Eurospec]

The air con system has a number of electrical components, as well as the more obvious mechanical stuff.

Reasons why yours might not be working:-

1. It just ran out of gas!
There is an electrical pressure switch in the system which will prevent the system running when dry (low pressure). This is there as the refridgerant carriers oil which lubricates the pump. If you short out the pressure switch temporarilly you will be able to see if the air con clutch kicks in.

2. The air con clutch.
The electro magnetic clutch on the end of the pump is only triggered if the pressure switch is on AND the electronics inside the car is calling for cooling. Since Mitsu in their wisdom located the aircon pump at the bottom right in the way of any crap being thrown up fro the road, the clutch can fubar. Normally it will make a noise. The favourate is a gone bearing in the clutch itself.

3. The pump.
These sometimes split! Like there entire casings! They are not cheap. Even a recon is the best part of £400!

Hope that helps,

Cheers,

Ben.

[Paul Beazer]

I would be wary of using the refill kits for a non working system. Mainly because you can overfill it or put too much oil in the system. I know as i did it in mine earlier this year. If you overfill the system, it will keep cutting out as the pressure increases the pressure cut off kicks in. Problem is you wont notice until you drive the car. The pump speed is determined by engine revs, so an idle speed test may be ok, but when running over 25oorpm it willstart cutting out.
It probably just needs filling up with gas and oil, but its an unknown quantity at this point.
A full service should consist of draining all oil and gas from the system, a vacum and dry followed by a pressure test then putting the correct amount of oil and gas in the system and finally a full working test.
That way you know everything is working fine. Once you've got it working by all means use the refill kits to top up the system anually.

Oh and Kwik Fit will do an air con service for approx £45 (i'd forgotten about them). From what i can see most of their branches now offer it. Plus if it screws up they can be blamed for it!!!

[Beastlee]

Paul, that's a good thinkg to know. If I ever manage to replace the condensor on the SAAB I'll get KF to do a service ;)

[White Lightning]

Although a small amount of gas can be lost over time it's not normal for all of the gas to be lost from the system so it's possible you may have a leak. When you get the system re-gassed you can get a special dye put in that is only visible under ultra violet light. That way, if it does leak you can see where it is leaking from.

In terms of pressure, the air con system is a highly pressurised system and I am fairly sure can run at around 300psi when running.

[Kieran]

In terms of pressure, the air con system is a highly pressurised system and I am fairly sure can run at around 300psi when running.

Yeah, that's an important tip, I'm sure you already know it, but leave the high pressure side of the system well alone - a high pressure refrigerant escape can be very dangerous, if not potentially lethal!

[Davezj]

All this info seems pretty good for jerry shaw, but no specifics.

by all mean correct me if i wrong but this is how i have test my air con on my other cars. get the car running and watch you fingers.

1. the canister with the view port on the top of it, at the front left of the engine bay as you stand in front of the car. This canister has a connector on top of it pressure sensor mention earlier in the thread. remove this connector and short it out with a bit of wire (or equivalent anything will do).

2. switch on the air con on fan to max and air con on (snowflake switch to on not snowflake ECO as this is lower power air con).

3.there should be an audible klunk. which is the compressor clutch kicking in.

4. you can disconnect and connect the pressure switch short and see the clutch clicking in and out.

5. this shows it is a low pressure gas fault. but does not guarantee the compressor will compress the gas, only that it will engage and disengage. if the rest of the system is gassed up correctly.

6. one thing to try if the clutch does not klunk over when it should is give it a bit of a whack or gentle tap if you like, sometimes the clutch can stick if it has not been operated for a long time as mine did on my jeep. i gave it a bit of constant pressure with a metal bar and switched it on and off a few times with the pressure switch short method, which started it working but then it stuck again so a bit of wd40 and then some 3 in 1 oil kept it freed up and it work from then on. I know it sounds a bit odd putting oil on a clutch but it worked, the oil goes behind the clutch on the shaft of the compressor.

hope this helps.

Cheers dave

[Jerry Shaw]

WOW!!! So many replies, thanks everyone.

I wasnt on the net to see these last night as I was away in the truck.

A friend came round tonight and as I was showing him the car, we opened the refill valves and there was nothing. I mean not even a weak farty sound let alone a good hiss.

I'll try the pressure switch trick when I get the chance and hopefully that'll get me some way to sorting it.

I'm not entirely fussed at getting it going but as its such a nice car that has had a good service history, it'd be a shame not to have everything as it should be.

Again, many thanks. I really appreciate it.

[Kieran]

When you say you opened the refill valves, do you mean you just took off the blue protective cap, or did you use an adapter and lock onto the brass valve that's beneath the cap? If you just removed the cap, you wouldn't get a gas escape anyway - the cap's just there to stop crap getting in the refill valve area.

[Paul Beazer]

There are 2 valves, dont touch the bigger one thats high pressure. Press the smaller one it quickly, you should get some gas released, if not you have no gas in the system, which would explain the lack of operation. Dont try and short out the pressure switch as you may bugger things up (no gas = likley no oil either) by running the system dry.

[Jerry Shaw]

When you say you opened the refill valves, do you mean you just took off the blue protective cap, or did you use an adapter and lock onto the brass valve that's beneath the cap? If you just removed the cap, you wouldn't get a gas escape anyway - the cap's just there to stop crap getting in the refill valve area.

We removed the blue caps and quickly depressed the valves under them.

There was absolutely nothing, so its either not been maintained or theres a leak.

I know that depending on how long it been like it, the seals have probably perished aswell so there would be any point regassing, lol

Catch 22, need a regas to check it, lol

[Paul Beazer]

A re-gas would prove little other than you may have a leak (which unless its pissing out you wouldnt hear above the noise of the engine). If the system is not used at least a couple of times a week, the oil in the system will not be circulated. The system depends on the oil to maintain a gas tight seal. No oil circulated means the gas will leak out pretty quickly.
Apparently most cars lose 33% of their gas charge over 2 years, even used regularly, so if the air con in your car has been used for a while the gas will just leak out....
Get an expert to look at it first. They can do a vacuum test, thus saving wasting any gas. Doesnt sound like its been looked at previously. If you're lucky it may just be empty, but i wouldnt waste your money filling it with gas first.

[Jerry Shaw]

Well, just to update, thanks to the suggestion I have established that the system kicks in when switched on so its off to kwik fit at the weekend for a gas up. That pressure switch trick is nice and easy and has results

[Davezj]

be carefull as you don't know if there is a leak.
as paul said above you could spend £50 on a fill up and have it all piss out in first 5 min of driving.
i would get it vaccum/pressure tested. it cost about £70 and there are lost of mobile sevices aroung. they will do the vac out of any remaining gas and check for leaks and refill with all the correct oils gas and leak detector put in.
leak detector is usually a die in the gas which can be seen under UV light or just bright yellow die that can be seen.

[Nick Mann]

The place I took mine to recently for gassing was oing to charge £60 to fill the system up. I knew the system was empty - the a/c radiator came out of the car last year!

When they filled the system the checked it and found a hairline fracture in one of the hard pipes near the condenser. They therefore removed the gas and charged me £30 for a system check. But when I get it sorted and go back for the refill, they will take the £30 off the next bill! Bonus!

Hope you get it sorted.

[Jerry Shaw]

The place I took mine to recently for gassing was oing to charge £60 to fill the system up. I knew the system was empty - the a/c radiator came out of the car last year!

When they filled the system the checked it and found a hairline fracture in one of the hard pipes near the condenser. They therefore removed the gas and charged me £30 for a system check. But when I get it sorted and go back for the refill, they will take the £30 off the next bill! Bonus!

Hope you get it sorted.

Excellent. I'll do a bit of phoning first then. I dont want to be spending loads on it though as its skinted me buying it, lol.

I would like everything to be just right though.

PS: Sorry for being a complete and utter NOOOB, lol

[Paul Beazer]

Excellent. I'll do a bit of phoning first then. I dont want to be spending loads on it though as its skinted me buying it, lol.

I would like everything to be just right though.

PS: Sorry for being a complete and uter NOOOB, lol
Dont be silly, everyone has to learn. Better to look dumb by asking questions than remove all doubt by screwing it up!!

Best bet now would be to get it pressure / vacuum tested and take it from there.

[ANTHONY]

even Paul was a NOOOB once

[Paul Beazer]

At least you can make me look clever now eh Ant!/pan

Im no expert and i wasnt trying to be flippant to Jerry, honest! I'd much rather people asked more questions than jump in with both feet and come back with tales of woe. The last thing i want is someone to knacker up something expensive for fear of asking. You stop asking, you stop learning!

[Jerry Shaw]

I appreciate what you all are saying. Its the silly little things that you would find in the owners handbook that stump me. There's one on ebay for £19. Is that reasonable for a brand new one?

I am assuming that its about the only place I will get one from.

[Johnny_Cashed]

For £20 you could get membership here though

[Paul Beazer]

And you would get the CORRECT answer from us lot!!!

[Jerry Shaw]

Very true

[Mark 4]

Slightly off topic but does anyone have an a/c radiator or does anyone know where I can get mine fixed. Like the complete muppet that I am I managedto puncture the fins on mine - made me move a bit quick - knew that it was probably not a good idea to inhale refrigerant gas but I din't know it wasquite as dangerous as Kieran has pointed out.

[Nutter_John]

You not get your current one re-sealed ?

Other than that would suggest ebay for Sir Mo of Zedy1

[Mark 4]

John, How can you re-seal ? - Solder, brazing, What ?
Sorry, this is somethin totally new to me so i don't have a clue.

[Nutter_John]

Yeah I was think along the lines of soldering or brazing although i think it is made from alley so may be a case of tig welding the hole

I do know that pipe work can and has been repaired on a vr4 before on Soapy1978's old car

or Just thought PM gowf as I think he has removed his air and may sell his rad

[Gowf]

Yes indeed i have..... I have the whole lot if anybody wants any of it!