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Nick Mann
18-09-2007, 08:31 PM
Well, I called the RAC for the second time last night in the two and a bit years I have owned the car. The first time was for Loss of Drive (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12148). This time was a failure to start!

The symptoms:

Unlock car with alarm button (Sigma alarm/immob)
Get in!
Turn key to acc, then ign, all is okay - dash lights up, relevant warning lights go out etc...
Turn key to start. At first it looks good - the radio goes off, the backlight for the dsh goes out, but the battery/oil lights stay on. But within a second or two you realise that the engine is not turning. You can't even hear the starter. A further check reveals that the immobiliser LED is doing all the right things to allow the car to start. The barrel is obviously hitting the right contact because of the lights on the dash and immob. So what is the problem?

I decided that the car thought it must be in drive/reverse and so was stopping the starter coming in. But where is the switch? Putting the car in P or in N did not seem to have any effect. I dismantled half the car, and after a phone call to my hero Mo, located the inhibitor switch. I fiddled with the connections in the dark and the rain, but no luck. Mo had said the problem could also be the starter itself, so now that doubt was playing on my mind.

The RAC man turned up before I got any further and agreed with Mo that it was either the inhibitor or the starter motor. The theory goes that if you apply 12v directly to the starter, you quickly discover if the problem is the starter or the inhibitor. As the car started, I now know my problem to be the inhibitor.

So, after looking on here and finding a couple of interesting threads here (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13354) and more significantly here (http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12259), I am hoping it is a dodgy connector. After all, following my first RAC experience, I know who plugged that cable in!! But really I would like to know if anyone has ever had a look at the switch in all its gory detail? Is it easy to change or difficult? Is it serviceable or not? I will be able to answer some of these questions over the coming weekend, but a bit of preparation would be useful!

Wish me luck......

WildCards
18-09-2007, 08:55 PM
Luck, although I know you won't need it mate, as your dog without a bone attitude usually manages to solve your car related problems, hence the longest post i've seen you write for a long time above.

Kieran
18-09-2007, 09:21 PM
Nick - checked the inhibitor Switch details on the Jap-Spec manuals and the continuity is different versus the UK-Specs.

The Connector and the pin numbers are the same versus the UK-Spec manual (I assume you have this).

The Continuity table is thus....

Park: 2----8 & 9----10
Reverse: 7----8
Drive: 4----8 & 9----10
Neutral: 1----8

Nick Mann
18-09-2007, 09:38 PM
Thanks K! You are a star.

Although I may be lost again now - presumably these signals tell the dashboard what is going on? 'Cause I didn't notice the dash doing anything wierd. I'll have to check!

Nick Mann
18-09-2007, 09:49 PM
Yeah - the indicator on the dash shows that the car is in P - R - N - D. So is there a seperate inhibitor or does the ECU look at the the same signal? If that means the switch is working, then have I got an ECU problem?

Nick Mann
18-09-2007, 09:52 PM
Aha! Or now I'm looking at it better, it probably means I have lost continuity between 9 & 10. The pin 8 to the others will be the gear signal, with 9 & 10 being the inhibitor.

Somewhere to start!

Kieran - thanks again for looking at that!

psbarham
19-09-2007, 06:52 AM
bern had this problem , the switch is somewhere on top of the box

damn i'm good to you
http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12259&highlight=inhibitor

Nick Mann
19-09-2007, 09:25 AM
Thanks, Mr. Barmyman, it is appreciated. However, please check the third (last) link in my first post!

:P

Davezj
19-09-2007, 01:14 PM
leggy vr4 auto 96,
I have this problem sometime, unlock the car with remote turn on the ignition and the dash light up but nothing else happens silence.
i always just switched the ignition off wait a couple of seconds and switch it back on again and it starts.
I always put it down to the immobiliser not releasing the circuits properly before i started the car, no great problem.
My brother in law also has this on his V70 auto.
itt sound like the same thing.
does your start after you turn it off and on again?

Nick Mann
19-09-2007, 01:58 PM
Nope. Nothing. The only way to start it is to stick a 12V feed on to the signal wire on the starter motor.

I'm pretty sure its not an immobiliser thing. The LED for the immobiliser does all the same flashing as it normally does when the car starts.

psbarham
19-09-2007, 05:01 PM
Thanks, Mr. Barmyman, it is appreciated. However, please check the third (last) link in my first post!

:P

:P ooh sooooo sorry sir, but look at the time of my post and i only got up 15 mins before that /pan

Nick Mann
19-09-2007, 07:37 PM
Heh! I was serious, Paul about being grateful for your effort! But I may also have been extracting a bit of urine at the same time.... /pan

And what are you complaining about - I was walking the dog whilst you were posting that!

psbarham
19-09-2007, 07:58 PM
Heh! I was serious, Paul about being grateful for your effort! But I may also have been extracting a bit of urine at the same time.... /pan

And what are you complaining about - I was walking the dog whilst you were posting that!

i knew that. anyway you should get a dog like mine , the lazy old git won't come downstairs 'till 10 ish

Nick Mann
23-09-2007, 06:22 PM
Okay, so I have been hoodwinked by my Immobiliser! /pan

The Inhibitor switch was doing its job on pins 9 & 10. The wire back to the ECU had continuity (black/red, pin 9) and pin 10 had its battery voltage with the ignition switched on.
I tried starting the car using the short-out-the-starter method. Bingo. So I enabled the immobiliser and tried again. Bingo again! That suprised me - I wuold have thought a Cat 1 alarm immobiliser was better and immobilising than that!
So anyway, I then spent hours and hours and hours and hours tracing wires in my car. When you have additional wires for a turbo timer, boost controller, FCD, unichip, handsfree, and a stereo with CD changer etc, it is difficult to work out which wires are for the alarm/immobiliser and which aren't! I eventually discovered that my immobiliser simply breaks the continuity for the starter relay at the ignition barrel. It was no longer doing that. Or, rather, the internal relay on the alarm brain was no longer making the connection to allow the car to start. Fortunately there was a spare immobiliser circuit that was not in use, so a quick swap of the wires and all is well again. Oh - except that it then took me another couple of hours to re-install all of the above paraphernalia and put the dash back together!

One last observation - the pins on the inhibitor switch are the UK spec, not the spec that Kieran so kindly posted above. My pin continuities from the inhibitor switch are:

Park ------ 3 & 8 ----- 9 & 10
Reverse -- 7 & 8
Neutral --- 4 & 8 ----- 9 & 10
Drive ----- 1 & 8
The difference on the VR4 and possibly other tiptronic models is that connecting pins 6 & 8 selects tiptronic, rather than Low. Pins 2 & 5 are not used.

Thanks for listening!

Kieran
23-09-2007, 09:27 PM
Glad you got it sorted - Interesting about the inhibitor pins, I wonder if that's a Facelift difference?

Nick Mann
23-09-2007, 10:20 PM
I did wonder about the facelift thing, but then you wouldn't be able to swap pre/post gearboxes. I would be suprised if that's the case?