EOI: Brembos on a Prefacelift bolt on kit

[VR-04-TT]

Hey guys, I know this is a bit premature as I don't have my car yet but it has been complianced now, just a few weeks away for the plate and delivery, but anyway...

My bro-in-law's mate custom makes parts for pretty much any car to put anything anywhere (stop giggling you lot lol). For example he made a fantastic tray/bracket for re-mounting a battery to in front of the front wheel arch in my bro-in-law's VH commo with an RB25 in it, he made the gearbox crossmember from scratch and it absolutely smashes the ADR's it needs to pass for engineering.

Anyway, his work is awesome. When I have my car we're going to make up adaptors to get the brembos to bolt onto pre-facelift hubs in such a way that you will not have to worry about any sensors.

As we all know the current way to get brembos on a pre-facelift is to swap the sensors, hubs etc, this is costly as the parts are generally hard to find from what I've been told and read on here.

These adaptors will come with ready-to-go ADR COMPLIANT braided brake lines. I haven't the capital to supply them with brembos...but maybe later on I will do such a thing.

The other thing that is awesome is that ANY aftermarket brake kit for the Evo's that bolt on will bolt onto these adaptors. So you're not limited to brembos if you can't find any...or want better brakes again (After holding Evo 9 brembos in my hands for the first time the other day...I'd be very surprised if you'd want more lol)

I have no idea on pricing yet as I don't have my car and therefore the R&D hasn't started. I will do the kits as cheaply as possible but keep in mind I will have to cover the R&D costs (my bro-in-law's mate's work is fantastic...but it's not free unfortunately and neither are the braided lines). I do have mates in the industry but it's never free or as cheap as people may think, a lot of industries are in the same boat now too...but that's another topic lol

All I'm after at the moment is just to see a general interest. I'll post up more details later and I'll definitely keep you all posted. As soon as I get my car I'm heading to his workshop to get started on the work.

And for the sake of information, the reason why I'm doing this is simply because I just KNOW there has to be an easier way to put brembos on a pre-facelift. I do this kinda thing out of my own curiosity and when it works I pass the info, or product on. I did the same thing with my DOHC 24v 6G72 3.0l V6 swap into a TR Magna when I was on Aussie Magna. Noone had done it before, so I did it and I passed all the info on I could. Now there's several of them lol

Right...enough of my essay...who's interested?

Cheers
-Paul

PS, this EOI has been approved by the committee. :)

[stuey]

I've already done mine a few months ago, and it was only luck that a set of facelift hub carriers came up, but they do seem rare now.. I wish someone had done a caliper bracket and I'd have had it in a snap.. Good luck with it..!!

[ianturbo]

goodluck with the work mate ,keep us updated ! any idea how long off its goin to be ?? do i get some brembos now or wit for santa to bring em :afro:
ian

[VR-04-TT]

Well my car is finally approved for compliance. We're just waiting delivery of the plate which takes about a week, then delivery of my car which takes about the same amount of time. Then the very next weekend I'm heading down south to my sis's fiance and his mate to get started on the bracket.

So we should see them in time for a nice early xmas present. Start keeping an eye out for brembos, as I will do my best to have these done before xmas, I reckon I'll have them done by mid Nov at the latest.

[VR-04-TT]

Oh I also talked to the supplier of the lines yesterday, they told me that the lines are actually available in different colours. It will be an extra charge but there's red, blue, yellow and I think green. Also you can get the fittings in stainless steel if you want. Good for longevity, but not essential, they will be an extra charge too.

Anyway, just some cool custom options ;)

[VR-04-TT]

Just another update. The workshop is expecting the car to be all done and complied next week. It's then another 5 days for delivery (The car is in South Australia and I'm in NSW, so it's a fair distance). So I should have them ready to go by the end of this month!

Also, I was asked this on Ozvr4 so I thought I better let you guys know too, the lines are proper crimped lines, pressure tested to 3000PSI. I will not sell anything dodgy...I refuse to, there's just no point.

[ianturbo]

its lookin good then , (green brake lines !!!) green as in dark green or green as in kermit green ?
ian

[VR-04-TT]

I'll find out for you mate. I might even be able to get some pics in the next week or so.

[Louis]

Hi,?, any joy How are you getting on with the brackets, any joy?, I looked into it bit using the evo brembos the spacing just seemed too tight, I was looking for alternative brembos, but found a set of hub carriers and just changed the lot, let us know how you get on, god luck

[VR-04-TT]

No progress till I get my car. It's "supposed" to be all complied this week but we'll wait and see. As soon as I have it I'll be onto it.

I just bought RDA slotted rotors for the front and back and Ferodo DB1678FF Pads for the front and Ferodo DB1521FF pads for the rear. Cost me $925AU all up, pretty happy with that :D So I have everything I need to get started except the car lol

[Louis]

Hi just for your info, When I fitted the evo 8 brembo calipers, you need to fit the evo discs also as the line up is different!, so you end up with the brembo calipers and discs from an evo.
Depending on how you are putting it all together, you may have probs fitting the VR4 discs to Evo calipers.
You probably have it all sussed etc, but I am just giving a quick mention of this (just incase), cheers Louis

[VR-04-TT]

Cheers mate :) I did do my research first and realised this. That's why I have the RDA slotted Evo rotors ready to go. They're also a different size by the look of them.

More good news. My car is complianced...I will see it next week!!!!!!

And for those who are interested, the place that's doing the hoses for me is an agent for this mob: http://www.braidedhoses.com.au/

The hoses will come with a certificate of compliance and they are also ADR APPROVED...not just "compliant". The difference being that APPROVED lines are actually tested...whereas "compliant" lines are just assumed to be safe as they have the same specs as ADR rulings on paper only.

I know this doesn't mean much for UK or NZ, but Australia has some pretty strict and tough Design Rules and Regs so it means you should have no problem having them in your cars overseas.

All the different colour options are available too...so have a snoop around that site.

[Wakaba]

I can get the parts needed for the conversion from Mitsubishi directly. If anyone is interested, I can get prices this week for the hubs and ABS parts needed.

[VR-04-TT]

Brackets will be a hell of a lot cheaper and much less hassle however.

[Louis]

I can get the parts needed for the conversion from Mitsubishi directly. If anyone is interested, I can get prices this week for the hubs and ABS parts needed.

Wakaba, Can you post prices please?.

VR-04-tt, sorry mate, was just checking, Look forward to hear how you get on, brakets would be great, and would make the brembos a much easier swap, good luck

[VR-04-TT]

No need to be sorry mate, it's all good. I'd rather people help out and make sure :D

[Wakaba]

I am actually working today, so no prices for you.... I will swing by my local parts suppliers and the Mitusbishi parts store for prices.

You will need;
R/L 98+ hubs
ABS brake lines for EVO VIII
EVO VIII rotors

[Davezj]

I am actually working today, so no prices for you.... I will swing by my local parts suppliers and the Mitusbishi parts store for prices.

You will need;
R/L 98+ hubs
ABS brake lines for EVO VIII
EVO VIII rotors

what about ther ABS sensors themself as the prefacelift ones have a shorter barrel body than the facelift ones. when you fit prefacelift abs sensor in facelift hubs they sit too far away fron the tone ring (abs ring) and will not pick up the motion of the ring revolving with the wheel.
there is a thread on here somewhere with a mod to the sensor which is a bit heath robinson bit i believe it worked.

this lot is not going to be cheap!!

hope this helps

Dave

[Louis]

Yeah,
ABS sensors,
longer caliper bolts,
brembo calipers.

[msassoon]

Has there been any movement on any of this?

[peter thomson]

As far as I remember this was dropped as there is not enough material between the holes for the brackets to be strong enough

[Fred]

i'd be interested mate... Dependant on price e.t.c

[VR-04-TT]

Hey guys, I keep forgetting to check this site! Sorry :(

I'm taking my car down to the workshop where we'll actually be altering the knuckle itself to accomodate the brembo 160mm spacing. The bracket idea can't be done as there is an overlap between the two sets of bolt holes.

The way it's being done may cause some people to go "hrmmm" with worry...but the guy who's doing this for me builds rally cars for a living and has used this technique a multitude of times on a number of cars all with success. When you consider the stresses they go through, a street car has no issues at all.

Anyway, what he's doing is lopping off the "ears" that the stock brakes bolt to, then he has made up a bracket that will be welded onto the hub to give us the 160mm spacing that we need. Yes, people will cringe, but I know he does it right and does it well. I've seen and been in cars he's done this to (mainly older HH VR4's).

It's the only way it can be done without replacing the stock knuckle with a facelift. At least this way there will be no ABS sensor issues.

He has said that he could do more but on an exchange basis. But it could be very expensive...I won't know for sure until he's done mine.

I'm heading down on the 25th of this month, so I'll keep you all posted. I'll take lots of photos!

[phosty]

As far as I remember this was dropped as there is not enough material between the holes for the brackets to be strong enough

Hmnn. So how come companies like KAD still offer big brake upgrades for the Pre-facelift VR4s? I was speaking to them about the hole spacing for the bracket they use a few months ago so they still offer them.

[peter thomson]

I think most are hoping for a cheaper alternative to buying facelift hubs or the cost of KADS. KADS are way beyond my budget anyway

[Nick Mann]

Hmnn. So how come companies like KAD still offer big brake upgrades for the Pre-facelift VR4s? I was speaking to them about the hole spacing for the bracket they use a few months ago so they still offer them.

I'm pretty sure that KADS have a bracket from the caliper to the hub carrier that can be changed. Thus there is no need for an extra braket to adapt hole spacing, you can just use a bracket from the caliper. It makes sense, because you only need one caliper design for any application. I could be wrong though!

[Nutter_John]

Nope the AP's are the same it is a bracket onto the hub that then the calipers bolt to - so Mr Mann is correct

[VR-04-TT]

The KAD brake calipers mount from the top, or radial mounted. That's why it's easy to make a bracket to adapt them onto the pre-facelift hubs. But the brembos bolt in from the side like our stock ones, that's why there's the overlap and that's why KAD brake kits are easily available.

http://www.kad-uk.com/kad-caliper-g.htm You can see the mounting points on the caliper there. Or http://www.kad-uk.com/media/G_info.pdf will give you more info.

If you get a caliper that mounts from the top, getting a bracket made up will be childs' play.

[KHK]

looking forward to your lots of photos at the end of this month for the modification,

very interested to see how it goes

i have custom brackets but i am not happy with the craftsmanship

see if u can source something nice and cheap

[phosty]

The KAD brake calipers mount from the top, or radial mounted

I wasn't aware of the specifics of either KAD or AP's brakes but surely the detail of the bracket wouldn't change the forces acting upon the caliper mounting holes on the Knuckle (hub carrier)?

Or was the concern about the strength of the mounting bracket rather than the knuckle mounting holes?

[Kenneth]

I wasn't aware of the specifics of either KAD or AP's brakes but surely the detail of the bracket wouldn't change the forces acting upon the caliper mounting holes on the Knuckle (hub carrier)?

Or was the concern about the strength of the mounting bracket rather than the knuckle mounting holes?

The point being made is that for KAD and AP's the bracket is actually not part of the caliper, instead the bracket is separate and can be easily and fairly cheaply made to your requirements. Caliper bolts to bracket, bracket bolts to hub carrier. The caliper is generic, the bracket is specific.

[phosty]

I got that - So it's the bracket that's not strong enough for the would be pre-facelift brembo adaptors as they bolt in from the side.

When I read the post by Peter I thought the problem was with the knuckle mounting points. My mistake.

[Kenneth]

When I read the post by Peter I thought the problem was with the knuckle mounting points. My mistake.

That is correct, the knuckle mounting points are in the incorrect position to mount Brembo calipers. The problem is because the brembos do not have a separate bracket and you have to be able to bolt the calipers to something.

In some cars you could make an adaptor that bolts to the hub carrier, then the caliper bolts to the adapter. This isn't the case with the pre-facelift hub carrier though, as there isn't enough room between where the current bolts are and the brembo bolts would be, they would interfere.

If the brembos (like AP and KAD) were radial mounted, this wouldn't be the case as you could just get a bracket made up.

[KiwiTT]

Hmmmm ... I was thinking I should get the AP racing brakes as opposed to Brembos. AP 6 pot front and 4 pot rear. I think Barry did that for his pre-facelift.

Need to price them up somewhere.

[Kenneth]

Hmmmm ... I was think I should get the AP racing brakes as opposed to brembos. AP 6 pot front and 4 pot rear.

Need to price them up somewhere.

Much much much more expensive, but if you have the money then go for it. You may also want to look at http://www.endless-sport.co.nz/

If you want to chat about it all, I am always keen :)

(back on topic now)

[bradc]

for you Richard it would be easiest to get the hub carriers and get Brembo's. And even if you got hub carriers and went with AP's or something, at least you could ask for EVO fitment calipers, discs, pads rather than some random setup.

[VR-04-TT]

For simplicity's sake, a radial mounted setup would be far, far easier to install. But more expensive new, I have no idea what they go for second hand (AP's I mean).

If you could find a set of AP's second hand you may have a better alternative to Brembos. It'd be easy to get an adaptor made for them.

KHK, I'll keep you updated :) I'll also be getting split dump/front pipes made up too if we have enough time.

[phosty]

Now I fully understand. Thanks Kenneth.

Out of interest but slightly off topic, do Endless do a VR4 specific set (for pre-facelift)? Pricewise they seem similar to AP/KAD (i.e. £1700ish for RX7 units).

[MPBVr4]

AP's, KAD's and Tarox all have brackets. I've seen AP's and Tarox on eBay but not sure which caliper size would suit the VR4. Tarox one's go quite cheaply. Just need a bracket machined.

[Turbo_Steve]

Guys, does anyone know if the prefacelift fitment is the same as the Early Evos?

I keep meaning to look into this, as they look extremely similar through the wheels.

[bradc]

EVO 4's have the same calipers on them as facelift VR-4's. They might be similar to EVO 1-3, but obviously those cars have 4 stud hubs

[Beastlee]

I'm sure someone posted elsewhere that they don't match. There's no way I'm going to pay £1500+ wheels to uprate the brakes, regardless of how much safer it makes it. Id rather keep my speed down to solve any issues.

[KHK]

Lee how u arrive at this figure £1500?

[KHK]

Can the idea of custom brackets work out to be a better / cheaper option over facelift hubs?

Is there any ball park figure for such bracket idea?

How serious is the shortage of supply of facelift hubs?

[Kenneth]

Now I fully understand. Thanks Kenneth.

Out of interest but slightly off topic, do Endless do a VR4 specific set (for pre-facelift)? Pricewise they seem similar to AP/KAD (i.e. £1700ish for RX7 units).

Endless are the same as AP/KAD :)

[Beastlee]

KHK, I was reffering to the AP/KAD price quoted by phosty (see quote in Kenneth's comment above) at £1700 for RX7 units.

I'm guessing the hubs are pretty rare here as there's always a wait on them. I think that part of the problem may be the requirement to do the work on the hubs. How difficult is the job for an enthuisast to do DIY?

[phosty]

I have seen a couple of pairs of AP 4pot calipers for 330mm discs on eBay (for Sierra Cosworths actually) for around £700-800. But even if we get a bracket for them made up we would also have to get disc bells made up too. So you're probably looking at close to £1000 anyway. For second hand items.

Last year I had been talking with Gary Yuen at MY-Garage about big brake upgrades for Pre-facelift hubs from the Taiwanese(?) manufacturer VTTR.

uploaded/4134/1208195036.jpg

http://vttr.ourpower.com.tw/cubepor03/front/bin/ptdetail.phtml?Part=a4-2&PreView=1

They seemed keen to produce them for the VR4 (for around £750 per pair) and took all the dimensions I gave them. However they hadn't produced a set after 6 months. They then said they weren't willing to do alloy bells - just solid discs - unless I ordered 3 sets.

I read around a bit and decided that I didn't want to be a guinea pig so asked for my deposit back.

http://forums.freshalloy.com/showthread.php?t=161918

So I figured the only way to get (proven, reliable, safe) big brakes for my pre-facelift is to spend big money with one of the established brake manufacturers.

[VR-04-TT]

Hey guys, I sound like a broken record here and I apologise, but I didn't end up going down as my aunty passed away on the monday before I was to go. It was all very sudden.

I'm in a bit of a financial pinch at the moment (rent has gone up ggrrr) so I'm saving what I can to get this finished...I have all the parts ready to go now, just need to put the cash aside for the labour charge.

I'll keep you informed!! :D