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Wakaba
05-10-2007, 02:02 AM
Hi, I'm Rich, but I don't have much currency to my name. Furthermore my wife limits my spending because I have been known to buy some fancy scmancy parts for what ever I drive.

Now here is my dilemma....

Yesterday while driving about town, a friend and I stumbled across this....

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c83/mister_pants/IMG_0133.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c83/mister_pants/IMG_0138.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c83/mister_pants/IMG_0134.jpg

1996 VR-4 autostick. Tein Suspension, EDFC, turbo timer (not hooked up), HKS exhaust and in REALLY clean shape. 178000 yen

They are selling it so cheap because as they said, there is a problem with the engine computer. The problem, as told and witnessed is this....

You can start the car normally and it runs perfect. When you switch the key off, and try to turn it on again it will not start. The gauges run through their diagnostics, and the check lights all go out in sequence, but when you push the key to start, it doesn't. My friend was under the bonnet when I tried to start, and said he could hear all the relays click on like normal, but no start. After about 5 tries, or 5min or so, the car is back to normal and starts perfect again.

Any ideas what this may be? There was a PIAA HID kit installed on the car at some point, and the wiring looks a bit dodgey around the battery tray. I will post some pics and a video of what is going on a bit later. I would LOVE to own this car and I want to pounce on it soon, but that ignition thing has me worried.

KiwiTT
05-10-2007, 02:26 AM
If it isn't right at purchase don't purchase

Wakaba
05-10-2007, 06:32 AM
okay....

Maybe I didn't explain everything at first. I currently live in Japan, and this car is at a local lot. So I have seen it in person and am telling you the symptoms from my own observations, not going by what I am told. The dealer says the car has a problem with the ECU, but I am trying to figure out if that is entirely true, or if he is being the typical Japanese guy and throwing his hands into the air when something goes wrong. besides the gremlin in the starter circuit there is nothing wrong with this car, and in fact it is VERY nice. There is no signs of body damage, or past accidents. The suspension new would set you back just more than the total asking price for the car. (Tein HA w/EDFC) Does anyone know where I can find a wire diagram of the starting circuit? This would allow me to trouble shoot the problematic area.

I went back to look at the car today and tried to figure more info out on the problems. The starting problem is intermittent, but there were a couple curious notes that we found....

1: when the key is turned to the start position there is a clicking noise from the transmission side of the car below all the bits of ABS and other parts. This clicking is not a solid "CLICK" like that of a starter solenoid engaging, but not sufficient battery power to turn the starter motor. This clicking is a repeatitive click click click that sounds like someone playing a fighting game on their PS2.

2: there is no pattern of on-off switching that seems to work, the starts only occur on random tries.

3: At one try I turned the key to on, waited for the check engine light to go out after OBDII completed it's diagnostics, then moved to start and held it there. I had it held on for about 3 full seconds, and the car started with no issues after the random quick clicks (#1) stopped.

4: The car is pimp-tastic, and if it is a under 60,000yen repair I am willing to throw down the yen.

Kenneth
05-10-2007, 06:43 AM
is there an immobiliser / alarm fitted? If so, it could be a place to start.

It doesn't sound like an ECU fault, as the ECU doesn't control the starter motor. one thing you could try is use a jumper lead to hot-wire the starter motor and see if it starts the car. if this works, then I would be looking at an immobiliser or some such.

Wakaba
05-10-2007, 07:04 AM
is there an immobiliser / alarm fitted? If so, it could be a place to start.

It doesn't sound like an ECU fault, as the ECU doesn't control the starter motor. one thing you could try is use a jumper lead to hot-wire the starter motor and see if it starts the car. if this works, then I would be looking at an immobiliser or some such.

That is exactly what I was thinking, so I was leaning to a starter relay on the fritz. It doesn't look as though an alarm/immobilizer was installed in the car. All the extra parts are still in the car, and the wiring doesn't look as though one was spliced in the loom anywhere visible. I went to the parts store to pick up a starter relay, and they told me there was no such thing on the car? Wierd?

what is the location of the starter in the engine bay? I want to show my wife the car, and if we can get the same issue to occur while jumping the starter solenoid than we will know the starter is out, and an easy repair. I just need to dig out my trusty starter jump button....

any other ideas would be great in the next hour or so. Then she is home from work and we are off to look at the car.

bradc
05-10-2007, 07:30 AM
Another option is getting an ECU from either Japan or NZ, you will be able to get one for about US$100-150 without much trouble, in fact I'm sure there is one or two spare here in the club, we've had at least one VR-4 that was crashed, and another user upgraded to a facelift ecu, and will have their prefacelift ecu lying around. You may want to post up a thread in the NZ sale section.

I do agree that it could be a problem with the immobiliser as well, and hotwiring it is a definate option!

On another note, it is very nice to see a person in Japan on the forums and who has a good understanding of English! Are you a native Japanese person, and if you're not, do you speak the language? If you do then I've got quite a few questions for you!

Wakaba
05-10-2007, 07:34 AM
see below

Kenneth
05-10-2007, 07:47 AM
"hot wiring" the starter motor will tell you if it is a problem with the current getting to the starter. If it is, then you are looking at either the relay or a wiring fault. A wiring fault is likely to be due to something such as an immobiliser.

The starter circuit on vehicles tends to be fairly basic as its only job is to connect the starter motor to the battery for a short period of time.

Either way it should be fairly simple to fix.

I cant see it being anything difficult to be honest, as it sounds like either a relay or immobiliser issue.

Wakaba
05-10-2007, 07:49 AM
Another option is getting an ECU from either Japan or NZ, you will be able to get one for about US$100-150 without much trouble, in fact I'm sure there is one or two spare here in the club, we've had at least one VR-4 that was crashed, and another user upgraded to a facelift ecu, and will have their prefacelift ecu lying around. You may want to post up a thread in the NZ sale section.

I do agree that it could be a problem with the immobiliser as well, and hotwiring it is a definate option!

On another note, it is very nice to see a person in Japan on the forums and who has a good understanding of English! Are you a native Japanese person, and if you're not, do you speak the language? If you do then I've got quite a few questions for you!

is there a factory immobilizer?

I am an American currently working and living just outside of Tokyo. I speak a little Japanese, enough to get by, and I have a ton of friends who do speak the language. Send me a PM with your questions, or you can chat with me via AIM Pistonless87 or yahoo CptCorprin


http://youtube.com/watch?v=OsTkQ7Ih1lc

The video starts with the engine running. I then try to turn start it again, and.... well you'll see.

bradc
05-10-2007, 08:17 AM
there isn't a factory anything! All that they have is a key and a central locking remote.

You'll have a pm in a few minutes!

Paul Beazer
05-10-2007, 10:27 AM
Just thinking, could it be a faulty turbo timer or similar? Might explain the delay in being able to start again!

I notice there is no rear wiper and some additional plastic around the rear number plate area. Looks tidy though!

Nick VR4
05-10-2007, 10:53 AM
It has a turbo timer but not hooked up :speechles:speechlesmy guess its been partly hooked up and thats what is causing starting up again

Paul Beazer
05-10-2007, 12:12 PM
Didnt spot that in the inital post. Backs up my theory then.

You could take a chance on it being the timer and hope we're right, might be a bobby bargain if it is....

Wakaba
05-10-2007, 01:41 PM
Okay... figured it out!!!

If I take the key and snap it from on to start very quickly.... starts EVERY time!!! The ignition switch is shot, and needs replacement.

now just the negotiations for purchase.

Nick Mann
05-10-2007, 01:51 PM
Congrats! The only other option, which you have hopefully ruled out now, is the inhibitor switch on the top of the gearbox. You should have a battery voltage feed on pin 10, and continuity between pins 9 & 10 when the gear lever is in Park or Neutral.

There is a multiplug that plugs into the switch, which is located next to the cable selector. It is all found below the funnel part of the air intake.

Wakaba
05-10-2007, 02:26 PM
Thank you for the idea.... the park/neutral switch is functioning properly, as the car is starting. I am so happy that the issue is the ignition switch on the steering column. My wife gave me the go-ahead...now to see if they will fix the switch on the price :D

Nick Mann
05-10-2007, 05:22 PM
Good luck! And let us know. As a VR4 owner in Japan that speaks good English (even if your spelling will be a bit off at times :P /pan ) you will be a man in high demand!!

ANTHONY
05-10-2007, 07:30 PM
i was under the impression that in Japan they had to get rid of their cars after 5 years and that why there is a big export market and i also like the black bit around the number plate area

bradc
05-10-2007, 08:47 PM
I think the taxes go up or something when the cars are that old.

The black bit around the number plate is a fake carbon fibre trim thing, Pescha has it on her car as well.

Wakaba
06-10-2007, 02:48 AM
Sorry I can't spell some times, I speak American not English...at least I am not a geordie!

The black piece is in fact the fake CF cover mentioned above, but it does make the rear end look a bit better.

As for the getting rid of cars in 5yrs here, that is a myth. The inspection process (shaken) that is required every two years is a very in depth process. Add to that the Japanese culture being a very 'modern' and 'cutting edge' society it is seen as a fopaux to use anything old or not brand new. They are also very 'throw away' due to their limited space in the habitable regions of the nation. Some families don't own cars in the first place, and if they do they only own one. Most of these habits were established when the yen was VERY strong about 5 years ago. Then the bubble burst on the Japanese economy causing the Yen to fall drastically and the nation to slip into a recession. This has caused the people to hang onto their stuff for much longer, which is why we are seeing less and less of the 'performance' stuff coming out of Japan on the junk market. Add to all of that the performance car fan base has changed over to mini-van fans, killing the entire industry.

Now I am working on the details to get that Legnum home :D

bradc
06-10-2007, 03:41 AM
The best jap cars were being made 5 years ago as well, RX-7, R34 GT-R, Supra, NSX, VR-4.

Legnums are almost like minivans anyway, just a whole lot faster and a bit less interior space!

Dexxx
06-10-2007, 05:16 AM
JUZ BUY IT DUDE! THAT'S WHAT I DID WHEN I BOUGHT MINE (LAST SEPTEMBER ONLY). It's been years since I've waited and when I finally saw "the one" (and believe me I've come across lots of searching thru the net) I took the chance and bought it. It's a 2nd hand car so we dont have to expect too much from it. But we've got guys...like CLUBVR4 who will help thru! So buy it man when u feel it. Remember in the movie TRANSFORMERS..." IT'S NOT THE DRIVER WHO PICKS THE CAR...IT'S THE CAR WHO PICKS THE DRIVER! " SO GO! GO! GO MAN! CLUBVR4 IS HERE TO BACK US UP!