Nitrous

[enigma]

My wife informs me I had a big parcel this morning, it perfectly fits the description of a shiny new NOS kit........I want to go home and play!

Bit wary about fitting it though given my recent scare!

Sod it, its only money!!!! :D

[BraindG]

yeay.. perhaps try "oh, im not feeling so good.. i think i need to go home"..

[enigma]

Cant do that so early in the new year! Besides last time I did that I ended up in hospital and off work for 2 weeks recovering from an operation on my nuts! :eek:

[zedy1]

thats cool dave when are you fitting it on.

[enigma]

OK, after long discussions with an air shop, I have finally sorted out the push fit NOS design! The air shop were helpful, but couldn't solve the problems of different standard threads used by the US and the UK, nor the apparant cross use of hydraulic and pnuematic thread fitting. :| :( They did give me some ideas though! The problem was that all the push fit fittings they knew of were either M5 or some odd BSP size, the nozzles required some crazy US size that was about 1/4" (6mm). After much head scratching it came to me......helicoils! So I ordered them yesterday, they came today and I have a RESULT!!! :D

[enigma]

From left to right........

Standard NOS nozzle with dumb ass 1/4" threads, tapped to accept M5 helicoils
BDA M5 NOS nozzle with helicoil fitted and M5 push fit nylon tube fitting
BDA M5 NOS nozzle with both helicoils and both M5 push fit nylon tube fittings
BDA M5 NOS nozzle with some nylon tube inserted
BDA M5 NOS nozzle with both lots of nylon tube inserted!

[enigma]

Now the only problem is that the NOS nozzles are designed to be jetted at the nozzles, because of the push fit fittings this cant be done with standard NOS jets........however I can still jet it at the solenoids meaning I require 2 jets rather than 12! Cheaper and easier to change power settings, I may rethink this at a later stage.......but I doubt it!

I am quite excited now, all I need is the red fuel tube and I think I can get started.........Anyone got a spare inlet manifold???! ;-)

By the way, I have 12 more nozzles so I can do 2 more sets of push fits, 12 single point applications, or some combination of the above......... :D

[enigma]

People dont seem to be all that interested in this exciting thread......oh well, you know me.............I'll post anyway!!!

Well today I had a message on my phone...........

"Hi, its Charlotte, I have that red nylon you wanted"

After getting excited for a split second I realised my tubing had arrived!!! :$

So I have been fiddling and have done a mock up of the nitrous install on the bedroom floor! All I need to do now is drill 6 holes in the inlet manifold, tap them, and screw in the nozzles..........a bit of wiring and then tune! Will probably need to set aside a whole weekend for this.............slow and steady! Dont want to f11ck anything up! Busy for the next few weekends, but it will be soon!

Anyway here is a pic:

[Nick VR4]

Looks good Dave and agree not worth rushing trying to do it :D

[enigma]

OK.......been bored, so here is the plan! Either go in the front as the picture, or do a sneaky and go in from behind (ooooerrr!)

[neil and bob]

BDA, I was somehow under the impression you had a Zex single port kit, how wrong I was! Direct port injection is definately the way to go. You seem to be taking your time fitting the kit, take it from me, this is a wise move. As I think you suspect the positioning of the nozzles is very important,if you can try to make them accessible so that you can experiment with slight adjustments to the direction in which they spray, this can affect results! Good luck, I look forward to the next exciting instalment of Big Dave gets Nitrous!!!!!

[enigma]

I was under the impression I was getting a ZEX type kit as well! The quality of the kit I actually got was shocking! The 'management control unit' was a plastic box to put all the bits in! I was furious! Half the bits were missing too, so I decided to spend £50 or so and do it properly! My only concern is that the jetting will be done at the solenoid and not at the nozzles, but I have read that this it is better at the solenoids anyway????

I am also going to make a controller, but I am not sure how fast the solenoids will switch.......any ideas?

[neil and bob]

BDA, I haven't got much experience with Nos own solenoids, but I believe that they can suffer a lot when used with a controller that pulses them at a very fast rate due to heat build up. My own choice would be Highpower units, I have used these without a fault on many set ups, including six port kits on a Jeep and an M3! What controller are you thinking of building? With the length of pipework that you will have you may find that just a first gear lockout will do the job, and is a whole lot easier to make. Complex controllers are usually only needed on front wheel drive cars with big doses of power. My own V6 estate has a 50 bhp shot of nitrous and it's fine unless the road is wet, I don't see a problem with four wheel drive. If you decide to go ahead, what type of controller are you building? If you are interested we have a Highpower unit here that may be available at a good price, we had it in our M3, but found we didn't need it. You should also be pleased you didn't get a Zex kit, although I have advertised them on this very BB they are not something I would fit on to a VR4, they are a budget street system, and have little in the way of adjustability. A six port kit is the way forward.

[enigma]

Thanks for the info! I was going to build a pulse width modulation controller to pulse the solenoids from 10% to 100% duty between 3000rpm and 5500rpm. I did think that the fact the engine can get through that range in about 2 seconds may make this an unnecessary challenge. I guess as long as I can change the jets quickly and easily and start with say a 50 shot I shouldn't have too much trouble with traction. I had already figured it wouldn't be much use in 1st gear and had considered a 'lockout'. I guess the best thing to do is suck it and see!

I take it you can do refills? How much for an 11lb bottle?

[neil and bob]

£3.50 p/lb, I see you're in Notts, if you get the chance one weekday nip up and see us. If you can, start off with 25bhp, turbo cars can realise some big gains due to the cooling effect of nitrous, so you may end up with more than 25bhp! Take it from me, it's very easy to make an expensive mistake, start small. Keep me up to date mate, i'm very interested in this project.

[enigma]

Do you only do weekdays? You are in Chesterfield right? Send me a PM and let me know where you are.........I may be able to drop in on Friday ;)

[SGHOM]

So might I !!! keep me informed Dave. I aint discounted nitrous, but you know me !!! :$

[enigma]

OK, time for some more piccies! I stopped in to see Mo yesterday and he gave me an inlet manifold he had lying around. It had a hole in it where a bracket had been broken off, but an hour or so with the mig welder some aluminium wire and a grinder seem to have sorted that out! Obviously will need to get it pressure tested before it goes on the car!

Anyway, back to the plot! First off I needed to drill and tap 6 holes in the inlet runners. I was suprised how thin the material was, so I had to go for the thickest part right where it joins on to the injector manifold. This was dead easy, but I was not super accurate with the drilling as there are a couple of brackets that get in the way.....oh well, its good enough! All I needed to do then was pop the NOS nozzles in and Roberts your Mothers Brother!

I decided to give the manifold a bit of a clean first as I am going to take it to the meet tomorrow to show off! ;)

So here it is in all of its glory!

[enigma]

And from the other direction..........

[enigma]

And finally a close up of the fan spray nozzles.......

[Simon]

Oooohhh S**T. I'll buy one!! sub13 sec's at 1/4 mile now!...bugger...(must find something else i can take out of the car...) :thinking:

[enigma]

sub13 sec's at 1/4 mile now!...bugger...

Dont worry, I think it will be some time before I get that brave! One step at a time, I am looking for sub 14s first!

[Spirit]

Excellent work Dave - look forward to seeing it tomorrow ;)

[enigma]

Finally I got brave and its time to install the NOS nozzles in the inlet manifold. To do this required taking it off the car. This was similar to the instructions for the plug change I did a few weeks ago, but required the throttle body removing as well as a few vaccum lines.

While I had the manifold off I took the opportunity to check the plugs. They looked fine so I think last times disaster was due to old (unchanged?) plugs. Now when running NOS everything gets a bit hot, so I decided to get some colder plugs to help get rid of the heat. Went for Denso IK27s, they are Iridium and good for nitrous installations or high boost applications. Got them from http://www.spark-plugs.co.uk/ who were very helpful, and a bobby bargain at just £12 each :D

Anyway here is my engine bay looking naked and forlorn:

[enigma]

Once this was done I realised the manifold I tried out last week would not work very well.......its all very well hiding it under the manifold, but its a bugger to get at! So I decided the nozzles should go on the other side. This was they will be easily accesible to blank off when not in use AND the engine cover will hide them!! :-D

[enigma]

And finally, after 3 days of fiddling (not full time, and not all on the manifold) here it is reassembled. 6 lovely nitrous nozzles (currently blanked off) installed on the car and just begging for some gas!!

[Nick VR4]

Nice work Dave :-b :-D

[Spirit]

Excellent work mate ;)

[enigma]

All I need to do now is plumb and wire it in! I have put the solenoids in a nice aluminium box, and mounted the distribution blocks in some aluminium U section. This should make them much easier to mount, a bit neater, and much easier to remove when they are not in use.

As for the wiring, well its simple really. Wire the 2 solenoids to a relay, the relay is activated under the following conditions:

The system is armed (rocker switch mounted on the dash)

AND

The throttle is pressed very firmly to the floor (microswitch mounted either to the pedal or the throttle body

AND

I am pressing the GO F!!CKING FAST button (steering wheel mounted push button)

AND

The revs are above 3000 or some preset limit (the APEXi RSM has an RPM output that you can set at any RPM level)

If all this causes too much wheelspin then I will put a progressive controller on, but I think the mighty 4WD system will be fine!!!! :rolleyes5 :p :D

[Nick Mann]

So you'll always decide on whether to use it as you have to press a button even if all other requirements are met? Sounds like a good idea.... I would have thought that weelspin wouldn't happen after 1st gear, but not certain of that fact. The power you are going for is approx 20-30% added, but 2nd gear must be at least 30% higher, so power at the wheels in 2nd with nos should be less than power at the wheels in 1st without?

[enigma]

I will always have control......I like it better that way!

I think using it in 1st is a waste of time, however it may make 2nd gear launches more of a reality! :D

[enigma]

Well I have just been to see neilandbob (well 1 of them anyway!) Took him for a spin in my car and I do believe I spyed him hanging on out of the corner of my eye! :-D

Anyway he filled my bottle for me but I think there is a leak as I was laughing all the way home!!!! :D :D :D :D :drunk:

Much appreciated matey! I highly recommend his skills if you need any advice about anything (especially if you have an M5 knocking around!)

So still on for the weekend if the weather picks up! ;)

[enigma]

Did I mention neilandbob is a top chap?

Did I? :D

[enigma]

neiland bob (the top chap) suggested using just a 25 shot to start off with, so one of the first jobs of the day is to buy some more nitrous jets. I will be getting the following sizes:

16,18,20,22,24,26,30,34,44

these together with the ones I already have

28,32,36,38,40,42,46

should see me able to go from a 25 shot all the way up to total engine destruction! Going to take the suitable jets for 25 and 50 shots to the pod on Sunday and see how I go on.........as neilandbob says

'you can always move up, but moving down AFTER you have killed your engine is impossible!' :wow: :wow:

Good advice in anyones book!

[enigma]

Connected the bottle up to the solenoid last night for a bit of a dry run........no leaks and nitrous was certainly flowing nicely out of all 6 pipes! Bring on the fuel!! :D

[Spirit]

Great news mate - look forward to hearing your tales of fun :-D

[zedy1]

have you connected the fuel supply too? and any results?

[enigma]

OK, today my engine inhaled a mix of nitrous and fuel........it did almost what was expected but I was not convinced so I have bottled out until it is warmer and can bear to spend more time on it!

Had it at about 2000 rpm while my head was under the bonnet, activated the switch and as expected the revs rose.......not as smoothly as I had hoped so as I said I aborted......any ideas? Tried increasing the size of the fuel jet and decreasing the nitrous one.......then got scared!!!

Will still be running at the pod tomorrow as long as its not snowing!

[Nick VR4]

Dave I'll presume that the car was just standing there and in N
I would imagine that when actually driving the revs would be more smoother as you have the engine pushing the car forward and not just running the engine if that make sense :)

Also 2k revs is not that high so that may make a difference ???

[zentac]

Dave - spotted you in Nottingham the otherday, pulled up next to you no the J26 roundabout but couldnt get your attention....anyway are you keeping an eye on the air/fuel mixture while your playing?

[enigma]

I was stationary yes, I followed the set up instructions I was given by neilandbob and those on highpowers website. I will have another go at some point when its warmer outside and I can feel my fingers!

Sorry I missed you Richard, I live about 2 mins from that junction and pass through at least 4 times a day! :) jou should have looked ready to race, that would have got my attention!!!!!!! ;)

[zentac]

I was in a chipped A4 Tdi but ready to race a VR4....hmmm perhapse not....maybe when the FTO is back on the road :)