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T-Tech
14-10-2007, 08:39 PM
Hello. Im new to the forum and Im thinking to get myself 1995 Galant Vr4.
Just some question about crankcase.

What kinda torgues/power can it hold up? Connectin rods, camshaft, pistons etc.
Answer actually im looking is that where they mechanical strenght cant stand anymore and break. All can be broken even with low power, specially when knock occur of course.

Bradc said on his topic, that he has 600Nm at car now and did I get it right that its with standard crankcase? No forget stuff I mean?

Sorry that my questions sound beginner like but I havent ever been looking specs about mitsubishi´s. and sorry about my bad language, im from Finland.

I have myself 1.8litre 16v Vw Golf 1984 with turbo what ive been building some time but now I need "use" car :)

Just some specs of my golf:
Vw 1.8litre G60 block, piston, camshaft
16valve head from Gti (214hv flow from intake side @ 9.7mm lift)
Holset H1D/E turbocharger 50/55mm comp./turb. wheels
630cc Siemens Deka 006 injectors*4
Walbro 255litres/h fuel pump inline(Gsl349? cant remember now)
Ownmade Intercooler 550*23*350mm
Suzuki GSXR 1000 throttlebodies 4*43mm modified to fit head
Ownmade exhaust 3" Stainless Steel
VEMS engine management
Barry Grant EFI fuel pressure regulator
and lots more :)

240hp@7psi measuret from previous engine with worse intake, turbo and exhaust. This should crank up about 320hp@22psi

Sorry that went offtopic but wanted to put some so you see that not total noob here :P
I hope soon to get myself that Galant, I looked Evo lancers but they are so darn expensives still.
Thank you for all info for advance.

The Vee
14-10-2007, 08:55 PM
1995? is it the 2.5V6 in the 7g or is it the 8g

T-Tech
14-10-2007, 09:08 PM
- 2.5 L 6A13TT V6 twin turbo
- 206 kW (280 PS) @ 5500 rpm
- 363 Nm @ 4000 rpm
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/5353/de7q5ruqbl1e70afbpg4.jpg (http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=de7q5ruqbl1e70afbpg4.jpg)
That more Info I dont have this moment
152000km mileage

I put pic too to seen too.
Aint that 8generation?

Kieran
14-10-2007, 09:27 PM
Hi T-Tech - Your Golf looks impressive!

As for the car - The picture is of an 8G, that's right, but they were produced from August 1996 onwards, the 1992-1995 car is the 7G and a bit different.

And as for power.... Well, we're still 'getting a feel' for where things let go, as most of the BIG failures have been down to incorrect boost settings, wrong spark plugs, etc etc. In fact, nearly all engine failures so far have been caused by detonation I think.

So here is a summary of what we DO know up to now.

Several people have had the standard crank examined, one member sent one to an engineering place, who said that it was not worth modifying it as it already was pretty strong.

The tiptronic gearbox can cope with around 350bhp without major issues - the two big things to watch are keeping it cool and also the output shaft can break, as it does on the lancer EVO - if you 'Launch' the car you are at more risk of this happening.

The standard VR-4 rods appear to be the weak link and several members have bent them, but this has usually been part of a bigger failure.

Turbos - They'll push 1.0-1.1 bar, Though anything 1.1 bar or above will shorten their life and they will self destruct at about 1.3 bar.

Pistons - The ringlands break if they run lean and it doesn't take a lot to damage them.

Fuelling - the standard 390cc injectors seem to cope with what most people need, especially if using the standard turbos. The cars are also mapped to run VERY rich and AFRs of 10:1 are common at high revs on full throttle.

Sparkplugs - Go one or two heat steps colder if you're pushing up the boost.


In summary - provided you keep the gearbox cool and keep detonation under control, most members on here seem to find that around 310~350bhp is a reliable power output. Unfortunately, anything beyond that is still somewhat of an unknown, though a number of members are working on it - Some openly, some behind an iron curtain of silence!


Hope this helps.:scholar:

The Vee
14-10-2007, 09:39 PM
Nothing to add. Think K's about summed it up:scholar:

bradc
14-10-2007, 09:43 PM
yeah thats a pretty good post K, rep points added


The turbos are the main point of restriction, they are very small and you have to be trying really hard to damage the engine with the stock turbos due to their size (or have fueling problems)

T-Tech
14-10-2007, 09:51 PM
where I found that pic is company thats gonna ship car here to Finland and it says its Manual transmission on it. Dunno more yet before they answer me.
Yeah I looked on lots places and wondered too that how can it say 1995 cus pic is 8g what started at 1996.
I was expecting that info about pistons, have heard some same stuff on older mitsubishis but wanted to be sure :)

I was thinking on mind before asking to upgrade VEMS or TATECH engine management, switch turbos bigger, equip 6*Deka006, those 630cc3@2.5bar injectors, bigger intercooler, Stainless steel exhaust 3" etc.
but now I see that forged pistons and rods are needed so budget grows :D (well when it goes downwards when you build cars lol)

Btw on 4G63 engines is not same rods? I have 1 set of forged H-profile for that engine(left over on project)


Did I read right from somewhere that you can put boost to 0.9bars and still good AFR? what is btw normal boost then?
And what is the ratio between front wheels and rear wheels? like how much power to front and rear is give in percents (ex.55/45%?)

Thank you for info Kieran, it helped tons already :)

Mostly car is coming for dailyuse but knowing myself, its never gonna be "normal" or factory tuned :D

Kenneth
14-10-2007, 09:54 PM
Turbos - They'll push 1.0-1.1 bar, Though anything 1.1 bar or above will shorten their life and they will self destruct at about 1.3 bar.



I believe YouSee runs 1.3bar on his all the time, and hasn't had his fail. He runs full standalone ECU.

bradc
14-10-2007, 09:55 PM
The stock is about 0.5bar and up to 1.1 bar is easily possible, but the turbos will drop off as you get up to the redline.

Under hard acceleration it is 40/60 F/R, normal driving is 50/50

T-Tech
14-10-2007, 10:01 PM
hmm I could get easily and cheap 2 Masterpower turbochargers

Heres some specs:
model: MP3
compressor wheel: 46,4mm
a/r: .42
turbine wheel: 49,5mm
a/r: .48
internal wastegate

Good for about 300hp/each. A/R might be bit low for this engine needs thought cus it revs up.
What turbos have usually used to get near 400-500hp? any ideas?

Kenneth
14-10-2007, 10:02 PM
Did I read right from somewhere that you can put boost to 0.9bars and still good AFR? what is btw normal boost then?

That is correct. You will need to run good fuel though, quite possibly an upgraded intercooler too.

Not many people report this happening, but it worked for me :) Just make sure you don't put a pod filter on it, the standard airbox is actually pretty good.

Kenneth
14-10-2007, 10:04 PM
any ideas?

Yep, register pay your membership fee and then trawl the forums as much as you like ;)

T-Tech
14-10-2007, 10:08 PM
I looked that membership but I cant get paypal cus I dont have credit cards at use :(
Im old habit and havent got one yet even it would be useful on many places. credits just scare me lots :D
So I guess I just have to wait then :)

Kenneth
14-10-2007, 10:20 PM
I looked that membership but I cant get paypal cus I dont have credit cards at use :(
Im old habit and havent got one yet even it would be useful on many places. credits just scare me lots :D
So I guess I just have to wait then :)

When I first signed up I didn't have one either, so I got a mate to do the payment for me and I payed him.

I don't mean that you wont get any info unless you pay, but all the questions you ask are answered somewhere on the forums.
Most of us put a lot of time and effort into gathering the information and making it available to others and as such the chances are we are much more likely to give up our time to help someone else who is supporting the club :)

I believe most engines built in excess of 400hp have gone with TDO4s, however there haven't actually been a great number of these done.
Properly tuned (standalone ecu) and with the intake and exhaust mods, the standard engine and turbos will get close to 400. (estimated at the crank anyway)

Kieran
14-10-2007, 11:27 PM
I believe YouSee runs 1.3bar on his all the time, and hasn't had his fail. He runs full standalone ECU.

Hmmm - that's interesting. 1.3bar is where there blades on Pete Johnson's turbos melted! Mind you, as far as I know - during that particular failure, Pete was still on the standard ECU.

Kenneth
14-10-2007, 11:32 PM
Hmmm - that's interesting. 1.3bar is where there blades on Pete Johnson's turbos melted! Mind you, as far as I know - during that particular failure, Pete was still on the standard ECU.

Which blades? Turbine or compressor?

YouSee is running separate intakes to each turbo and external wastegates which may help with temps.

What intake/exhaust mods did Pete have?

Kieran
14-10-2007, 11:40 PM
My mistake - it was 1.4bar.

Unfortunatley I don't know much about what spec he had at the time - Pete was guarded in disclosing what he'd had done and not.

This is the thread he mentioned it in:

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?p=27571

bradc
14-10-2007, 11:50 PM
mine is at about the same pressure and I haven't had problems yet. Uc has had his car setup like that for nearly two years now

Kenneth
14-10-2007, 11:51 PM
My mistake - it was 1.4bar.

Unfortunatley I don't know much about what spec he had at the time - Pete was guarded in disclosing what he'd had done and not.

This is the thread he mentioned it in:

http://www.clubvr4.com/forum/showthread.php?p=27571

Sounds like he had problems on the track, I don't think YouSee has tracked his... which could account for it.

Nothing like tracking to see what goes POP :P

valmes
15-10-2007, 03:35 AM
I've stated where the "problem" with no gain in upping the boost above 1 bar is coming from... look inside the stock ECU. It's limited by 200 Engine Load points... that roughly translates to 1 bar of "boost"... Above that ECU has no idea or resolution... so it just keeps dumping fuel per last cell in a linear fashion.

AFM is also seems to be limited by the 1600Hz... at first glance... so even if it can measure air mass coming up in Hz it will get a downwards slope when reported to ECU.

If you don't have the ability to reflash your ECU, scale it with a piggyback or change it to standalone unit altogether... it's pretty much useless going for more than 0,95 bars of boost, let alone if you've improved your VE and getting better airflow at lower boost pressure...

PS: And that's the main reason behind a good HP/TQ gain by Bradc and YouSee... ;)

Kenneth
15-10-2007, 04:25 AM
I've stated where the "problem" with no gain in upping the boost above 1 bar is coming from... look inside the stock ECU. It's limited by 200 Engine Load points... that roughly translates to 1 bar of "boost"... Above that ECU has no idea or resolution... so it just keeps dumping fuel per last cell in a linear fashion.

AFM is also seems to be limited by the 1600Hz... at first glance... so even if it can measure air mass coming up in Hz it will get a downwards slope when reported to ECU.

If you don't have the ability to reflash your ECU, scale it with a piggyback or change it to standalone unit altogether... it's pretty much useless going for more than 0,95 bars of boost, let alone if you've improved your VE and getting better airflow at lower boost pressure...

PS: And that's the main reason behind a good HP/TQ gain by Bradc and YouSee... ;)

You are talking about a software issue Valmes, we were discussing hardware limits. Whether or not the ECU fuels well above 1 bar is one thing, but that does not alter the fact that the turbos seem to happily work at ~1.3 bar if used on the street.

T-Tech
15-10-2007, 10:25 AM
....

valmes
15-10-2007, 11:52 AM
You are talking about a software issue Valmes, we were discussing hardware limits. Whether or not the ECU fuels well above 1 bar is one thing, but that does not alter the fact that the turbos seem to happily work at ~1.3 bar if used on the street.


Did I read right from somewhere that you can put boost to 0.9bars and still good AFR? what is btw normal boost then?


:thinking:


Yep, register pay your membership fee and then trawl the forums as much as you like ;)

Sorry, didn't know it covers answers too... /notworthy

T-Tech
15-10-2007, 07:05 PM
1 more question: Has the car been made LHD? or if not, has anyone ever done LHD conversion or is there possibly something that would make it impossible?

Heres lots LHD galants where I live but none are VR4

valmes
16-10-2007, 03:02 AM
Marcel from Estonia converted his Galant to LHD and 5-6 cars in Russia were converted to LHD too...