Ultrasonic cleaning of fuel injectors

[I-S]

I'm coming to the possibility that I might have fuel injector problems rather than or as well as coil pack problems. I'm working on diagnosing the problem fully before spending signficant money on this.

Fuel injector issues are not unknown on GDIs by any means, so I figure getting the injectors cleaned properly, rather than tanks of injector cleaner (which I have tried) won't do any harm. I know professionally this is done with ultrasonic cleaning, and I already have an ultrasonic cleaner tank which should be big enough (it's a 1.4 litre one).

What fluid should I use? Is there any risk to the injectors in doing this? Any suggestions? Or should I not even be thinking about trying this?

[peter thomson]

Frost sell cleaner to use in there tank . I'm not sure what it is though

Here's the link

http://www.frost.co.uk/item_Detail.asp?productID=9420

[Kieran]

The only comment I'd make is that you won't know how effective your cleaning has been untill they're refitted to the car - and you won't be able to see if the flow rates are all okay.

Have a look here - there's a run through of what the process involves FYI:

http://www.injectorcleaning.co.uk/

[I-S]

I've seen that, along with a few other pages about the ASNU. I'm looking for the cheaper DIY solution though...

[Kenneth]

If it's a GDI it could be the high pressure fuel pump. This was apparently the problem with mine.

It seemed to fix the rough idle (almost stalling at times) but I was never happy with the car and got rid of it.

[Eurospec]

LS UK (lucas) should be able to test, clean and balance fuel injectors for you.

Oddly we use the one in Ipswich to clean our injectors as they dont have that much backlog, so its quick.

You get them back with before and after flow sheets, spray assesments and new seals etc.

Cheers,

Ben.

[Kieran]

Ben - do you find injector cleaning is worthwhile then? I.E - I have no particular injector issues, but for the price it costs I've been considering it seeing as my car's now quite old and has more than 100K on the clock.

[I-S]

Once again, I'm not looking for someone to do it - there's no end of places that will. I have my own ultrasonic tank and I'm wondering what sort of fluid to use in the tank with the fuel injectors to do a cheap DIY job.

[amsoil]

I have used a firm called SAMES in East London to clean injectors, The improvements seem to be between 1% and 6-7% for the odd bad one. Certainly worthwhile if not good for peace of mind.

[WildCards]

Once again, I'm not looking for someone to do it

Isaac, just look in the yellow pages mate, loads of places will do it for you :evilgrin: :laugh:

[Eurospec]

Isaac, sory mate, i dont know what fluid they use, but they are very helpful there. Just give them a bell and ask them.

Kieran, we do recomend it yes. Whenever i have a car with non std and not new injectors to be fitted/tuned, i always suggest they have the injectors cleaned. Not everyone goes for it, but trying to tune on 'unknown' injectors is a PITA, especially if one is way off.

We would normally fit balanced/cleaned injectors into any engine we are doing major work on (read rebuild etc) and it is typical to see flow variances similar to the ones Don has seen, ie 6 to 8%, but its also not unheard of to have a set with one injector thats like 15% off. The injectors in my GTO are ebay specials. One of those was 23% off!

Spray pattern is also important and is helped by cleaning. The mitsi engines are basically firing the injector as close to the back of the inlet valve as they could get it- there isnt much space for the fuel to atomise. To make max power you want as much atomisation of the fuel as you can and you want it to pull as much heat from the inlet tract as it can. If the fuel dribbles out of the end of the injector and runs along the port floor its not going to be anything like as good as a nice sharp blast that fulley atomises and swirls in through the valve.

Its one of those things where if you have a running car, does it NEED to be done- no. Will it help it run better? Ultimately yes.

Hope that helps,

Cheers,

Ben.

[peter thomson]

In the lab at my work we use distilled water , methanol and then back to distilled water again for a lot of the items we use that can get clogged up.

[Rambaud]

When I asked about cleaning the injectors on my Audi 90 quattro, I was advised it was not really worth it if they had done more than about 80,000 miles (they had done nearer to 120,000 miles). So I bought new ones.

This was a few years ago, so I assume the cleaning equipment has improved since then?

[peter thomson]

Just bought one of these from Maplin as they are half price just now. I told Deborah that it would be good for cleaning her jewelery as an excuse. Tried it today and she said it cleaned better than the solutions you leave the jewelery in. It's not very big but would hold injectors

http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?moduleno=223108

[miller]

Ben,

who do you use now to clean the injectors?

http://motortorque.askaprice.com/dealer-news/auto-0810/euro-car-parts-closes-lsuk.asp

im thinking of trying the guys in Hull, ie the link Keiran posted up, fiirst off need to source a spare set first so my car aint down for any period of time.

Mike

[alendil]

hi
i dont know if You are still interested but best for cleaning in u-cleaner is fairy liqid i know cheap but my trade is silversmithing and before i arrive to England i was working full time in jawelery manufactur
for soniccleaning i was using 3 drops of fairy liqid per 1l of warm water
becerful its lot of foam ( main reason for proper sonic fluid becouse is not foaming formula)
try to put les for start and go in 3-5 cycles

[miller]

Digging this thread up again I eventually borrowed a second hand set of injectors, thanks to Peter thus saves my car being off the road for any length of time, dropped them off to the ASNU place on Friday and I pick them up tomorrow hopefully fresh and raring to go at 100%

I get a written report on the condition of the injectors so that will be interesting, even though they arent off my car given the cars age im sure a lot of our injectors will be running the same.

Like they say in Tesco, every little helps!


Mike

[Turbo_Steve]

!!! So it'll now run even RICHER on the standard ECU? :) :D

[miller]

as they say when its in for its ECU fettle then the fettler will have no cause for concern on quality and quantity of fuel delivery!

[miller]

Okay received them back, the chap cleaning them said these injectors were not the worst he has ever seen.

Injector Previous After
1 89ml 95ml
2 91ml 95ml
3 91ml 95ml
4 92ml 95ml
5 88ml 94ml
6 90ml 93ml

Now to fit them before the weekend :seeking:

[peter thomson]

not too bad then Mike

[Turbo_Steve]

Interesting disparacy between cylinders....can we guess which one would have detted first, children?

[miller]

back left bank ?

[miller]

oh and in the ASNU service they replaced all the filters, heres the old ones they look pretty cruddy on close inspection! Yes they are small!

[funkstardelux]

i was thinking of gettin gthis done too, any info on the company you used prices etc? and how they are after and fitted

[Davezj]

i have an ultrasonic tank, some measuring cylinders, a fuel pump, a signal generator to provide the drive signal via some FET's and the fuel injector connectors to build a rig but no space to do it in. Story of my life!
i was going to use neat redex as the cleaning fluid just pumped round and round. Then some other coloured solution (possibly petrol with a dye in it, or some less combustable) to do the spray pattern and flow rate test.

I will just have to find a supply of filters to be able to change them.

well that's the plan. but i will probably need another shed to set it up in.

[giblet]

well that's the plan. but i will probably need another shed to
set it up in.

Get it set up man, theres money to be made!

[WizardKing]

Earlier in this thread it was mentioned to use 3 drops of Fairy liquid with 1 litre of water and to be careful, any more would foam.
Pay it no attention, unless my new [Maplin's] ultrasonic cleaner is broken, foamy water has its bubbles popped by the u/s waves.

Redex sounds a logical choice, anyway.

[funkstardelux]

just may got to maplins and get me one of those toothbrush cleaners

[John TheAntique]

My workshop mixture that I make up to use on all "hard" items ie metal, glass, plastic, jewellery, clock parts etc that would be eminently suitable for injectors, lifters etc that will not blow up in your face, catch fire or foam is 1 part to 4 mix of 99.7% Isopropyl Alcohol and De-Ionised Water with a few drops of Cationic Surfactant ( Didecyldimethylammonium ). The latter is an antistatic that is very good for cleaning plastics that pick up a charge easily such as LP's.
I use this as a brush on cleaner and in an ultrasonic tank. If anyone wants a sample PM me. A similar Disco Antistat is marketed at £20 per litre.