Estate v Saloon

[simon387]

just wondering about your thoughts
most of us want the vr4 for the power, handling and enjoyment of the drive but how do you all feel on the body type is there any difference other than apperance let me know what you think or know be interesting to see which one is the most prefered.:inquisiti

[Nutter_John]

world war three has just begun

"Saloons are Better and so are manuals "

;)

[SGHOM]

"Saloons are Better "

;)

estates are betterer :afro: /pan

[bradc]

wagons have better weight distribution, they are closer to 50/50 than sedans

[SGHOM]

wagons have better weight distribution, they are closer to 50/50 than sedans

Brad..... It's estates & saloons. not wagons & sedans. /pan /pan

[bradc]

it's also kmh and metres you backwards royal loving clown!

[SGHOM]

it's also kmh and metres you backwards royal loving clown!

Yards & pints :pimp2: :iloveyou:

[Kenneth]

Estates are better, I agree.

I also agree that Galants are better.

Manuals are definitely the best.

[MPBVr4]

Each to his own I suppose. I just prefer the rear end of a saloon, more shapely
IMO. Always the best bit to polish:inquisiti :pimp2:

[Nick Mann]

Estate for me. But I couldn't get a pet greyhound in the boot of a saloon! (not without getting a visit from the RSPCA soon after!)

[simon387]

this looks like it could have been a good thread to start nothing like a good debate /Devil5

[MPBVr4]

Got to admit, the Estate would come in handy sometimes though. Used to have
a Volvo 740 Turbo estate. You could chuck anything in the back of it or tie anything to the roof racks (including 500metres of roof batten /pan ). Very useful tool to have when rebuilding houses and having 3 kids and all that entailed.

[BraindG]

Estate for me. But I couldn't get a pet greyhound in the boot of a saloon! (not without getting a visit from the RSPCA soon after!)
or the gazebo!

p.s. saloon/manual FTW! /rally

[Beastlee]

Practicality and the fact people don't normally associate them with performance cars (yes I know there are Legacys and RS4/6s) means an estate for me every time. If you're going to buy a biggish car you may as well buy the biggest version of it ;)

[sanct]

Saloons that's where my Mrs gets her hair cut.
:afro:
Estates..... Now yer talking.


Not entering into the auto versus manual game.









auto's better
:P

[simon387]

what about weight is that a factor in this little war ?

[Nevman]

wagons have better weight distribution, they are closer to 50/50 than sedans

That's only because they are heavier and are 0-60mph slower /Devil5

Saloon looke like bullet :happy:

[Nick Mann]

The two fastest UK VR4's at Santa Pod are Automatic Legnums. I think the third, fourth and fifth are too, but I can't guarantee that.

So saloons are poo, and manuals are poo! :P

[Kieran]

The manual gearbox once had it's place - As did the Model T Ford. Both are old and rubbish by the standards of today, yet one of the above is still being built. Hmmm.

Auto is a better bet in general for these cars I think. They're durable (with the caveat that you need to keep on top of ATF changes and temperature), smooth and easy to drive. And no faffiing around when you want to go faster - Just stamp and GO! You also have a tip gate if you want more involvement.

Manual VR-4s are faster in terms of acceleration, but you do loose the 'point and squirt' ability of the car to some degree. A VR-4 is really a quick and capable cruiser rather than a point-to-point weapon like an EVO - Because of this I often think that a manual gearbox is a bit out of place in such a car. And all this hoo-hah about a manual having more control, etc etc... Well, that is true - however I'd wager that most average drivers don't exploit or even feel the need to exploit things like heel & toe day to day.

I'm more on the fence about the whole Saloon/Legnum thing, having owned both. For my lifestyle and for what the car is used for, having an estate is ideal. However, the saloon looks very good indeed, and I still maintain that whilst my Legnum could out-grip my V6 Sport, the Sport always felt a lot more nimble.

[bradc]

I've owned 3 auto legnums and 2 manuals (one was converted, I've only owned 4 in total) and I think that for a standard VR-4, the auto is better, it keeps the car as a nice cruiser that is still capable of speed. It is also easier to eat a pie with an auto.

However once you start to modify the car, the gear you're in matters a lot less. My car at 3000rpm produces nearly 500nm of torque, the stock car only makes 343nm at about 4000rpm! I can accelerate from 3rd at 40kmh faster than a normal car can in 2nd. Once you up the boost a bit, you have a much broader torque curve and I feel it is less important to worry about changing gear constantly with a manual.

Kieran - remember your V6 sport was a 2wd and probably weighed 300kg less than the VR-4!

[Nevman]

The two fastest UK VR4's at Santa Pod are Automatic Legnums. I think the third, fourth and fifth are too, but I can't guarantee that.


Only because there's more of them and they were tuned up. Stock ones are heavier and slower :)

Well... Comparing Kieran in his and me in mine the weight issue is in Kieran's favour unfortunately :) :) :)

[Spirit]

I found the cure......have one of each ! :pimp2:

[Brunty]

I found the cure......have one of each ! :pimp2:

Running costs!!!!

I've got an estate and a saloon at the moment, both stock. I've always found the saloons to feel lighter and more spirited and the estates more solid/rigid. I've felt this with a number of estates I've driven in. This is 'feel' though and I suspect, as different as they seem to drive, I doubt there's that much in it performance wise.

The great looks of the Galant stem from the front end and the shark nose inparticular - it all goes horribly wrong at the rear (IMHO) and so I think preference here comes down to intended use.

Auto v. Manual? Tiptronic suits this car so well.

[VR4 MAD]

..............The great looks of the Galant stem from the front end and the shark nose in particular it all goes horribly wrong at the rear (IMHO) and so I think preference here comes down to intended use.

Auto v. Manual? Tiptronic suits this car so well.

Well said that man......agree 100%

/toycar

[Subaru ETA]

i have owned a wagon and now have a sedan....honestly i like them both...just got the sedan to live out my youth before the mrs wants kids and NEED a wagon lol

[Kenneth]

i have owned a wagon and now have a sedan....honestly i like them both...just got the sedan to live out my youth before the mrs wants kids and NEED a wagon lol

Keep the Sedan and just get an Estate as well...

My plan at present is to leave the Legnum fairly standard for reliability, comfort and practicality. The Galant will be more inclined toward performance and handling at the expense of comfort and reliability.

[bradc]

If I hadn't found the ST-R, I would still have the white VR-4 and my plans for that were a few simple things that would improve it such as an apexi afc (mainly to increase fuel economy), a trans cooler, and a de-cat pipe.

I would say that for people like yourself Kenneth, a few good simple mods like that to the daily driver car would only be beneficial (but I know you're doing things like that to the white Legnum anyway)

[Subaru ETA]

Keep the Sedan and just get an Estate as well...

My plan at present is to leave the Legnum fairly standard for reliability, comfort and practicality. The Galant will be more inclined toward performance and handling at the expense of comfort and reliability.


yea thats prob what will end up happening. or ill get an mps for myself and leggy for the mrs :D

[bradc]

mps = 4cyl 2.3l single turbo

vr-4 = v6, 2.5l twin turbo

surely you're getting a downgrade?

[Subaru ETA]

but id still have the mrs leggy :D

plus, the mps is a fun car to drive! and as i have mentioned before it was 1 sec slower round taupo then the lap record holding evo!

[Paul Beazer]

Personally i prefer the estate. Just prefer their lines, saloons just look a bit "old man" (sorry), plus getting a bike or pram into the estate is nice and easy.
Plus its a lot easier to get a shag in an estate!!!/pan

[Oblivion]

I have to say the saloon is better! But thats only because I've got one :D Legnums are heavier and have aerodynamics of a shoe box :P As for auto vs manual, this should be a no brainer manual wins by far!! Ever been in an auto when it kicks down a gear halfway through a corner? Not good! Unless you prefer being lazy and not changing gears haha In the end I guess it depends what you want out of the car that determines what is better for you

[KiwiTT]

The Galant looks the best.:afro:
The Legnum is the world's best looking estate

"A picture says a thousand words"

[bradc]

The Legnums look the best!


(this is going to turn into a war)

[Beastlee]

Ever been in an auto when it kicks down a gear halfway through a corner? Not good!

I've only been driving VR-4s for about 8 months but I've never had it kickdown in a bend unless I'm on the exit and flooring it. I thought this was the whole point in the AYC/ASC sensors to see what you are doing/intending.
I always swore I'd never have an auto but I'm now on my second as I'm so impressed with the INVECS-II system and the power delivery. I just wish that 5th gear was slightly longer, but it's better than the one in a manual ;)

[bradc]

Thats why I always drove my auto Legnums in tiptronic, so that it can't drop down on you.

I wish 5th gear was a LOT longer on the manuals, but I think that on the auto's it is just right.

[stuey]

i didn't realise the autos had a different ratio 5th gear, could do with dropping another 1000rpm in 5th on the manual. (in reality 6 spd would OBVIOUSLY be best)

[VR4 MAD]

I've only been driving VR-4s for about 8 months but I've never had it kickdown in a bend unless I'm on the exit and flooring it. I thought this was the whole point in the AYC/ASC sensors to see what you are doing/intending.
I always swore I'd never have an auto but I'm now on my second as I'm so impressed with the INVECS-II system and the power delivery. I just wish that 5th gear was slightly longer, but it's better than the one in a manual ;)

I have to agree totally with the above. I too wouldn't ordinarily have ever considered an auto but the INVECS-II system combined with the tiptronic has made me a believer.

For 99% of my driving situations it's fine but.............

for driving right on the edge of control, giving it death at 110% you just can't beat a manual box............... and today that's not something I do..........well often anyway. /rally

/toycar

[KiwiTT]

Same here. When I want to do hard driving ... I go over to tiptronic. Otherwise 99% of my time is doodling around in City Traffic or Motorway Jams ... hardly a pleasant environment for constantly changing gears manually.

[The Vee]

Much as I like manuals, Kierans comments do make a lot of sense. As far as handling goes between the saloon and the estate, I honestly don't think there's a lot in it.
As for the looks - I've always liked the traditional 3 box design so for me it's the saloon - and what a good looking car these are. For practicality, there's no denying the leggy is always going to be hard to beat and to be fair is not a bad looking estate.

[Spirit]

Let me summarise:

IF YOU HAVE EITHER A GALOON OR A NUMLEG THEN YOU ARE A LUCKY PERSON....BOTH LOOK FABULOUS - SO DON'T ARGUE.....ENJOY !

[The Vee]

Personally i prefer the estate. Just prefer their lines, saloons just look a bit "old man" (sorry), plus getting a bike or pram into the estate is nice and easy.
Plus its a lot easier to get a shag in an estate!!!/pan

The Cormerant is a little harder though!!

/Just thought I'd clear up that little matter/pan /pan

[The Vee]

Let me summarise:

IF YOU HAVE EITHER A GALOON OR A NUMLEG THEN YOU ARE A LUCKY PERSON....BOTH LOOK FABULOUS - SO DON'T ARGUE.....ENJOY !

He's right, but he would say that:inquisiti /pan :scholar:

[pitslayer]

i prefer the look of the saloon, and i prefer a manual gearbox.
but im slowly being converted to a numleg, but it has to look right. and with naughtymatics i can make flappy paddle gearshift



i think what it all boils down to is that winning turqouise is not only the most winningest colour ever on a galant or numleg, but the best without a doubt.

[You See]

I've owned 3 auto legnums and 2 manuals (one was converted, I've only owned 4 in total) and I think that for a standard VR-4, the auto is better
How can you say that? The above manuals were either not stock or not a VR-4! :vogel:


mps = 4cyl 2.3l single turbo

vr-4 = v6, 2.5l twin turbo

surely you're getting a downgrade?
Nah, if Dave wanted to do that, he'd get a Holden! (cough Forth cough) /Nuuu


The Galant looks the best
AMEN!!! :iloveyou:

[Kenneth]

The manual/auto debate...

Having been one of (it seems) the few to have actually had the pleasure to drive both (in standard trim, both with equal power and equal tyres) at close to their limits, the following is my impression of the two.

There is very little between the auto and manual day to day. In standard trim the manual is very easy to use, the clutch is light and it engages progressively without bite. It is easy to get going without the RPM going over 1k. Because of this, while [not quite] as friendly as the Auto, it is friendly enough.

I found this advantage was given up when cornering at close to the limits, the manual was more precise with the power delivery and you could feather the throttle nicely to adjust lines mid corner. Don't get me wrong, the auto wasn't bad at this, (at least not in tiptronic mode) it is just that the manual was superior.

The auto was much easier to get consistent good launches in. Though in saying that, the standard clutch just wont do a decent launch without slipping and stuffing itself up.

At the track I would put my money on the manual every time.

If you don't care so much about driving the car within an inch of its limit, then a manual will gain you little. If you value the ease of use of an auto, the auto is the way to go.

[bradc]

remember as well that the auto is at 2500rpm at 110kmh, while the manual is at 3000rpm, and because of that, imho if you do huge amounts of motorway driving, the auto is better.

[Beastlee]

My boss saw mine for the first time the other day and claimed it looked like an assualt tank, with bags of attitude, as it went round camp. Well it is dark green but I'm not sure if it was a compliment or an insult /HAZ

[Turbo_Steve]

Much as I like the Galant, the legnum has the more distinctive lines: The Galant is a good looking car, in a sort of BMWish way. The Legnum is more 'Japanesey' and definitely has a look of it's own.

I had a massive debate about cars. The conclusion we came to was that we needed two cars. Both should have four doors (we have kids) but that one should be a "family" car that was fast, comfortable, reliable and easy to take on long journeys, whilst having plenty of fun. This is a Legnum VR-4 Auto. It's a predominantly practical car with sporting credentials.

Which left the second, less practical car (which i would mainly use for work and local travel) can afford be a little less reliable. As it would only do my daily commute (24 miles a day) it didn't need to be comfortable or relaxing to drive.
In fact it needs to be fun! It might also go to track days.

A Galant VR-4? I considered it. But it's an Evo. It fits all the criteria: it WANTS to be driven on the limit, but retains a few shreds of practicality.

I think the Galant VR-4 is a great car: I've not driven one but I imagine it to be a slightly more focussed version of the Legnum. But my big comfortable fast car needs to be a BIG, COMFORTABLE and FAST car. My less practical car can be almost completely impractical, and the older Evos are sooo cheap and so very tuneable: I just couldn't justify the Galant body shape, or the manual gearbox.

Saying that, if I was eating up miles for work and wanted somewhere secure to lock my laptop, overnight bag and company samples, whilst enjoying the drive and looking expensive and non-boy-racer on arrival...THAT'S the Galant.

I don't think any of them are better. Which is better: Jeans or a Suit?
I think you choose the best tool to do the job.

Personally the Legnum stands out more...but then I think that the Galant blends in better, and looks more exclusive (but less 'special') because of it. How complicated is this?

The Evo's just look silly. Brilliant but ridiculous :)

[Oblivion]

I think the Legnum VR4's are much more common than the Galant versions too, I was going MAD when I was trying to find one for myself.