chips with everything !!

[SGHOM]

just booked my car in to www.johnnoblemotorsport.co.uk to have it chipped !!
very nice chaps they are too, & very helpful. talked me through all they will do to the car, & the provisions they can make for further improvements.
basically, they will fit a unichip, re-map the engine, sort out my 'non working' boost, dynotest it & get it running sweet !!! booked in for 11th Feb !! cant wait !! :D :rolleyes5

[Kieran]

How much will this rush you Derek?

[Spirit]

Sweeeet ! What they estimating all that will set you back Derek ? And what are the likely gains to be made in terms of power etc, will the unichip and boost controller work well together ?

[SGHOM]

£560 + VAT !! I dont think that is too bad ?? :lipsrseal :$
dont know what the power gain will be at the mo, but they need the car all day, so I'm taking the day off watching people work, :D to see just what they'll be doing.
my spec was to get the most out of what has been done already, IE induction, exhaust etc, then we'll take it from there as regards further improvements.
apparently fitting unichip does away with the need for FCD's, & the chip will easily cope with furter bhp !!
HEY !!! I almost make it sound like I know what I'm on about !!! :$ :rolleyes5
It'll be nice to see it on the rolling rd !!

[borgan]

Before getting the unichip installed I was looking at getting a GEMS ECU. Getting the ECU pinouts was taking ages so I opted for the Unichip. The money saved will allow me to replace the turbos, injectors, fuel pump & intercooler. Unichip capable enough to supply fuelling & timing for above.
All this is dependent on upgrading auto box to cope. Current clutches on auto box unable to cope with torque (according to Owen developments) and box now slipping slightly in auto, but not in tip mode. Prob started after installing e-boost & before Unichip so beware a g'box rebuild could be just around the corner for those modifying. And yes i do have a ATF cooler fitted(my first mod). It's ironic, I chose to buy my VR4 as it had just had the box rebuilt ignoring the poor paintwork. I considered a rebuilt box to be of more value.
Hopefully stateside company should be able to assist, giving me an auto box that can handle 750 bhp & 650 lb/ft of torque (more than enough). They do an upgrade for the EVO GTA (5 spd invecs II box) so I'm confident that they can assist. Price: not much more than a std o/haul.
My fuel consumption has remained the same since fitting Unichip even though car has been driven harder.

[bonsai boy]

i to have found that the auto gearboxes can not cope
with lots more torque.with the motec system on the amount of
torque we gained the transmission could not cope.when pulling
away hard the gear changes were banging in.to the point where
i could see people looking up as it changed gear the banging was that
loud. no way would the box last like that for long

[SGHOM]

err............................ before I go ahead & get it chipped, I'm just going to enquire how much it will be to strengthen then engine ??? ie; forged internals !! :scared1: :nono: any guesses before I go and ask ???

[Kieran]

any guesses before I go and ask ???

Perhaps if you're thinking of that route, you should sell me your MMCS now! :-D We can make your aircon work by plugging a standard controller in (I think!) :$

[SGHOM]

keep trying Kieran !! :-D :-D

[calum]

err............................ before I go ahead & get it chipped, I'm just going to enquire how much it will be to strengthen then engine ??? ie; forged internals !! :scared1: :nono: any guesses before I go and ask ???


Why do you want forged internals?

Anyway - about 800 for parts and £500 for fitting.

Calum

[SGHOM]

Why do you want forged internals?



Calum ther's only so much you can do with the stock engine. exhaust, boost, timers etc........ but eventually you reach a limit.
if you make the internals stronger, then then you can go much further ??
question is.......... do you do what most of the VR4 members have done to get the best from the engine, or........ do you improve the internals, & go that bit further ???

[SGHOM]

Why do you want forged internals?

Anyway - about 800 for parts and £500 for fitting.

Calum
if thats all it costs ??? I might go for it !!

[calum]

I don't believe anybody has reached the limits yet? I've certainly not heard of anybody bending con rods or having probs with ring blow by, etc?

That's not to say that some pistons haven't been destroyed due to det, but that's due to incorrect set up.

Just my opinion, but reckon you'd be better spending your money elsewhere until something breaks.

I'm sticking my neck out here, but I reckon you could see a reliable 450bhp out of one of these engines on std internals.

But that's going to require an uprated fuel system, larger turbos, probably an EMS, etc. With all this to buy then I don't see forged internals being a priority?

It's your g'box or clutch (depending if you're manual or auto) that's going to be the weak link first.

Calum

[simpsonm]

Personnally having someone upgrade the internals would scare me ****less. Most peeps I know that have had this done (not on this particular car) have their motors up for sale within 3 months. The assumption is that somethings gone wrong!!

[pjjohnson]

Interlec, my car has been to Nobles to have the Unichip mapped ( it was already fitted but not mapped properly). They seem to know what they are doing and are nice people.

They couldn't do a full power curve on my car because the gearbox didn't lock up at low enough speeds. Getting torque at high revs seems to be the difficult thing with our engines, bigger turbos/better breathing required I think.

I wouldn't be surprised if they could fit an ATF cooler for you on the day if you are worried about that aspect.

On the internals bit, Calum, where can you get forged internals for £800 ? - I thought £1500 was nearer the mark. Is that for pistons and rods ?

My engine has had to be rebuilt - air leak caused detonation and a piston broke, but the other pistons and all rods where OK, but the big end bearings were shot.

[SGHOM]

any idea what Nobles might charge for fitting an ATF cooler ??? whilst they are doing the rest ??

[pjjohnson]

No idea how much they would charge for an ATF cooler, they didn't do mine, but I paid about £70 for parts and a couple of hours labour.

[Spirit]

No idea how much they would charge for an ATF cooler, they didn't do mine, but I paid about £70 for parts and a couple of hours labour.

Yeah I was quoted approx £60 - £100 when I looked into it but then the place decided they didn't want the job :(

Currently looking at importing one from the US maybe unless you can source one for the club when you speak to them mate ?

[calum]

Don't know what size the pistons are, but if wiseco don't already do them then they will if you ask them to.

http://www.wiseco.com/PDFcatalogs/2003_sport_mit.pdf&e=747

http://www.importperformanceparts.net/imports/rodpistoncombo_mitsu.html

Are the pistons the same as the fto or gto? Or any of the older mitsis?

Calum

[SGHOM]

I think I'll just stick to getting it remapped etc !!! but I will enquire on everyone's behalf, regarding prices on ATF coolers, water spray, internals etc. see if they can be of help if more than one or two of us are interested. anyone agree ??

[Kieran]

Yep! I'd be interested in what they say about ATF coolers!

[Spirit]

I second that ;)

[SGHOM]

by all accounts, they are a knowledgable lot at John Nobles, & very helpfull.
If anyone has anymore questions you might want me to ask of them, fire away.

[Kieran]

OK - I'll ask on behalf of myself, Scottish Ian and any other GLS Powered owners out there :D

Remember that danish chap who registered - He had a GLS Turbo!

(see here:)
http://www.clubvr4.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=2632

http://www.bilgalleri.dk/html/gal_visbil.asp?ID=4886

What would be involved in either turbocharging or supercharging the GLS engine? Below are the specifics - I would print this out and show 'em!!! :$ :

The GLS has a 2 litre 4G63 - it's fitted with a 16v SOHC Head. I've no idea how much it has in common with the 4G63 engines in the Lancer EVOs. I imagine it's not half as strong but I don't know.

The GLS engine is a 10:1 compression ratio as standard - How much will this be reduced by in order to stop the engine destroying itself?

The Danish chap's car went from 128 to 184bhp & 184lbs/ft using a KKK 16 turbo running 0.5bar boost - is this realistic, safe, etc??

Will any parts (gearbox, head gasket, rods, rings, piston crowns) need upgrading? The Danish chap was looking for uprated pistons, but didn't say if this was because of the turbo or not - are they a weak link?

And how many megapounds would it be?!?!

[Bagofsand]

[QUOTE=Kieran]OK - I'll ask on behalf of myself, Scottish Ian and any other GLS Powered owners out there :D

Strange thought here. Why not just buy a standard VR4.. More power... more torque....less hassle....Better starting point for modifications.
Probably lower insurance aswell.

On another note what are the suggested power increases for this uni chip installation?

[pjjohnson]

Calum, thanks for the info on the pistons, I'll try them next time ( if there is a next time).

[pjjohnson]

Interlec, I had cause to go into Nobles today, and I asked them to have a look at my ATF cooler.

Darren was the one who had a look ( he'll be doing your mapping ) and he thought it was pretty simple, and they could be able to do a similar one for you next week if you wished. If you give them a call they can give you a price.

[SGHOM]

Interlec, I had cause to go into Nobles today, and I asked them to have a look at my ATF cooler.

Darren was the one who had a look ( he'll be doing your mapping ) and he thought it was pretty simple, and they could be able to do a similar one for you next week if you wished. If you give them a call they can give you a price.
will do Pete. If it's not to expensive, I'll let Darren fit one. got a few questions to ask them anyway !!
busy week for my snail next week !! just picked up new discs & pads, Vents fitted as soon as I get a call from John Bees, might be monday !! hopefully.
re-map weds, brakes thurs, wizar............................................ OH !! thats another story !! :$ :$

[Kieran]

wizar............................................ OH !! thats another story !! :$ :$

Wizard of NOS? :uhoh2:

[Nick Mann]

Go Derek! Go Derek!

:boing3: :boing4: :hurrah:

[zedy1]

Don't know what size the pistons are, but if wiseco don't already do them then they will if you ask them to.

http://www.wiseco.com/PDFcatalogs/2003_sport_mit.pdf&e=747

http://www.importperformanceparts.net/imports/rodpistoncombo_mitsu.html

Are the pistons the same as the fto or gto? Or any of the older mitsis?

Calum
havent done any measurement but if i remember correctly the fto piston might be the same size (well the diameter dont know about the depth) although the fto is 2 ltr and ours is a 2.5 ltr the extra cc we get is from the block being taller and not the pistons being larger

[calum]

Thought they might be - it's often the stroke (crank) that's changed to get a few hundred cc's of displacement.

Calum

[pjjohnson]

VR4 piston is 80mm diameter, slightly dished top with the letters 13DT on the top. See piccy of a broken one.

Been told by someone who should know that they are not the same as the GTO, but I don't know about the FTO.

[FTOLTD]

they are not the same as the FTO

the 6A13 has a larger bore 81mm

the 6A12 is 78.4 mm bore

[zedy1]

they are quite close together

[FTOLTD]

yea the bore is close but the stroke is a big differance

81.00mm × 80.80mm 6A13

78.40mm × 69.00mm 6A12

[michaeli]

Interlec, I know John Noble and how his company works, although he's touring France at the moment he has a great set of engineers and mechanics. You could do alot worse....

I live in Chesterfield, I wouldn't mind popping down to have a look at you car, would that be OK??? :-D

[zedy1]

is chesterfield near manchester

[enigma]

Not that far away.......and snake pass is an awesome road for the VR4!!! :-D

[enigma]

I live in Chesterfield, I wouldn't mind popping down to have
a look at you car, would that be OK??? :-D


is chesterfield near manchester


Looks like the northern meet organisation may be under way!!!!

[SGHOM]

Interlec, I know John Noble and how his company works, although he's touring France at the moment he has a great set of engineers and mechanics. You could do alot worse....

I live in Chesterfield, I wouldn't mind popping down to have a look at you car, would that be OK??? :-D
anytime you like mate !! :-D

[michaeli]

LETS DO IT!!!! :-D :-D :-D :cool1: :cool1: :cool1:

[SGHOM]

Looks like I'm not getting my car back today either !!! :( seems they had a slight leak when fitting the ATF cooler, which had to be sorted, & yesterday, someone took the day off !!! WTF !! :veryangry
It was supposed to be ready this lunchtime, but with the afore mentioned hold ups, another car was on the rolling road being re-mapped ??? Anyone we know on here ???? MR PJJOHNSON !!! :furious3: :-D :-D
So mine was dumped outside until Pete's was done !! :wow:

[Nick Mann]

Now now, Derek. Handbags!!

Hope you get it back tomorrow, mate. You need a chance to practice antagonising BDA on sunday! :-D

[enigma]

I shall not be drawn in! ;)

[Spirit]

Yeah Derek you will get it back won't you ? Can't not have you there on Sunday

[SGHOM]

I shall not be drawn in! ;)
I was only kidding !!! I wont be out in it 'till the weekend anyway. It's just that they said they would ring at 4pm, to let me know when it would be ready. I'm waiting ??????? :noshake: :noshake:

[pjjohnson]

Interlec - I was sitting in reception when you called, listening to mine being remapped.

I can report your car was safely inside, not outside, looking extremely mean with those exhausts, vents, fins, calipers and wheels.

They've had a bad couple of days, I don't think someone took they day off yesterday, but they had to go to Noble sports cars to sort out a problem as they make the engines for the Noble GTO. And their dyno is playing up.

When I was there they had a phone call from an unhappy customer who had problems with a flamer kit ( on a Merc A class !?) Things got quite heated, no pun intended, and just as I left two cars pulled up and the customer stormed into the workshop with three beefy mates looking for trouble. Cue quick exit.

Hope your car is alright.

[SGHOM]

When I was there they had a phone call from an unhappy customer who had problems with a flamer kit ( on a Merc A class !?)

.
HA HA !!! thats Martin, from Custom FX !!! He has A jeep which look's really mean, so why he's putting it on the Merc, I do not know ?? I'll have to wind him up about that one tomorrow !! :-D :-D He's still got my old wheels in his shop. not a sniff of selling them. :sad3:
As for my car , when Steve said someone was off, I presumed he meant off work !! not just off the premises !! :$ :$
your's all sorted now ?? I hope mine will be done for the weekend ??? :)
doesn't look too OTT does it ??? [ my car I mean ]

[pjjohnson]

All Legnums look mean - yours just looks meaner than most - no its not OTT.

I think mine is OK now - I'll give it a blast tomorrow. Bit worried because the broken piston was supposed to have been caused by an air leak - but they couldn't find one, and they didn't think it was detonation.

Running at 1 bar to start with, but they said its getting enough fuel at 1.2 so I'll up it slowly. Hope I don't do it again.

[zedy1]

[ Bit worried because the broken piston was supposed to have been caused by an air leak - but they couldn't find one, and they didn't think it was detonation.

how much did that set you back?

[pjjohnson]

I couldn't possibly post how many £££££'s, I don't know who might see it, but it was easily enough to make me want to keep the car for a while.

[enigma]

I couldn't possibly post how many £££££'s, I don't know who might see it, but it was easily enough to make me want to keep the car for a while.

Oh dear!!!! :wow:

I quite fancy the idea of picking up a cheap (3-4k) VR4 and building a killer engine (1000BHP) to slot in. I think it would shake up a few Skyline owners, especially if it was a Legnum! Full stripped racer style..................

Anyone fancy a club project??! :D

[pjjohnson]

Yep, I fancy it - what about two, or even three engines? There is enough space in the Legnum, and with the privacy glass no-one would know.