PDA

View Full Version : V6 sounding a little nasty...



Rikki
13-12-2007, 07:49 PM
Hi Guys,

Since my gearbox rebuild back in November the car has been pretty much sound and although it was in the garage in april it was only for a little service. Since then however, the usual tappety noise appeared but then progressively got louder. It has now got to the stage that it sounds like more than the tappets - with my pal even suggesting something may be up with the cylinders.

So here I am, letting the folk in the know decipher what could be wrong. It may of course just be the tappets and my head telling me its getting louder. Assuming i get it to work, I have attached a sound file from the other night, excuse the talk over it.

Any information is appreciated.:pimp2:

(mp3 attached as zip file)

bradc
13-12-2007, 07:59 PM
when was the last time the engine oil was changed?

Rikki
13-12-2007, 08:29 PM
the engine has had its oil changed every time it goes to the garage. Due to the gearbox it was in about 4 times between october last year and april this year - so I guess in answer to your question, April.

Kieran
13-12-2007, 09:12 PM
Oil change and possibly the oil grade is at fault here IMHO. Clicking tappets, especially when there's several tapping away do make the car run a tad lumpy at idle and you can hear the sound.

I know the V6-24/Sport has 12 month/9,000 mile intervals but this is FAR too big a gap. In the home market, the interval is 6 months and depending on conditions anywhere between 7,500 and 10,000 Kilometres - That's 4.5 - 6,000 miles! Hordak used to start tapping after about 4,500 miles and that was with a decent brand 10w/40 semi-synth in the engine (I hadn't discovered Amsoil back then), so for the sake of an hours work I used to do a DIY change at 4.5K, halfway between services and that kept him happy.

As for your engine, well change the oil and you should feel *some* improvement - and this will confirm that it's just the oil that's tired.


When I first got Ariadne, I did a 'KieranCorp Super Flush' to smooth her out, and this is how I did it:


Get engine nice and hot (15 min drive).
Add 'Engine Flush' to existing oil. Run car as directed on can (usually fast idle for 15 mins).
Drop oil, change filter (I got lucky and scored several Cheapo pattern filters for £30 - anything with an M20 x 1.5 thread will do for the flushing, as long as it fits and doesn't leak.
Fill sump with flushing oil (I used Comma 'Flush out'). Run at fast idle 15 mins. Drain flushing oil. Marvel at the extra crap the Flushing oil fetches out. Change filter (again!).
Fill with a decent semi-synth oil. Go for a 15 minute Italian Tune-up.
Come back - Add another can of engine flush. run for 15 mins, then drop.

Finally:
Fit Amsoil or Geniune Mitsubishi filter. If you're using a Mitsu filter, try and get one of the 'Tall' filters made by purflux - they apparently have better filtration media in them.

Fill with a HIGH quality Fully synthetic (Amsoil, Mobil1, etc). I know that sounds overkill but these engines do mess their oil up and you're creating a rod for your own back if you use a cheapskate Mineral or Semi Synth - Especially seeing how your tappets already sound bad. Make sure it's got a low winter number (0w or 5w is ideal).


Obviously the above is extreme and it's worth trying a simple oil change first before committing yourself to the above.:scholar:

Rikki
13-12-2007, 09:33 PM
thats some hardcore flushing Kieran, but then maybe mine could do with something like that going into the winter.

Its sitting on 115k miles and after checking all the garage receipts, have discovered the oil was changed in April/May and before that October.

This may be a stab in the dark but after you mentioning quality oils it may be worth mentioning. My car gets serviced through Phoenix HONDA as I know the manager there. I imagine the oil they use would be more suited to the high revs from honda engines rather than the mitsu or are they likely to be all standard garage stuff?

Its been booked in again for Monday as one of the suspension links is loose so I imagine if I ask he'll flush the engine. Is it worth asking him about the oil he uses?

Paul Beazer
13-12-2007, 10:35 PM
Hi Rikki,

How many miles have you done since it was changed?

Mine tends to get changed every year (about 6,ooo miles). I tend to get the engine nice and warm, add engine flush, fast idle for 15 mins, drain crappy oil, add 3l of flushing oil (thanks K!) fast idle for 15 mins then drain again. Change filter and add mobil 1 0-40w and you're done!
Mine has only ever made tappet noises once, on the day i was going to do the first oil change since i got it! Its done 104k so its not far behind yours.
As K says regular oil and filter changes really are worth doing.

Rikki
13-12-2007, 10:47 PM
Hi Paul,

Thanks for the reply. Its done about 9k since last change so is well in need of a change. When it goes in on Monday i'll ask the guy what oil he uses and if am not impressed i'll supply my own for him to do the job. Its going to be sitting for while when the suspension gets done so he should have the time to do the change.

Its just a bit of a contrast now my wee bro has the same car. His is silent and puts mine to shame. /pan

Rambaud
14-12-2007, 10:16 AM
I have had 3 oil & filter changes in the past 4 months - although that does cover about 7000 miles.

Tappets have quietened down each time - latest change was with Amsoil 0W-30 and an Amsoil filter. I have done 500 miles since then and the engine is definitely smoother and quieter.

I recommend you use the best oil & filter you can afford.

amsoil
14-12-2007, 11:07 AM
Just my 2P's worth here, do think seriously before using 0w-40 oil ; anyones 0w-40 oil including Amsoil. The oil has been stretched so very much with Viscocity improvers that it becomes a weak oil and suseptable to being literally chopped up by piston rings etc. A 0w-40 is usually very good initially but will break down; you could end up with something akin to a 0w-20 with contaninants because of the broken molecules. At worst you could loose your engine. Not trying to sell Amsoil here but this grade is really for engines that get abused for sort periods and have frequent changes such as go carts ATV's mopeds etc.

Paul Beazer
15-12-2007, 11:55 PM
As usual thanks for the info Don.

Just a Q relating to the specific uses of my car. It did 5000 miles betwen oil changes last year. Most of my journeys are 10-15 minutes start to stop with a couple of 1 hour continuous running journeys a week. It doesnt get particularly thrashed on the whole.
What would you recommend i use? Im currently using mobil 1 0w-40 fully synth.
I chose a 0w oil as my journeys are short so the oil doesnt really get up to operating temp, so i figured a thin oil at startup temp would offer more inital protection.

Rikki
21-12-2007, 09:38 PM
ok the car had its oil change. I was told they use high quality 10w-40 semi synth oil so the noise shouldn't be a direct result of the oil. Sounds a little quieter now its had a fresh dose of oil but still no where near as quiet as i remember it being.

on another note, the mechanic said my steering rack may need replaced - oh joy /pan

ANTHONY
21-12-2007, 09:44 PM
man that sounds like a london taxi

richy rich
21-12-2007, 09:57 PM
on another note, the mechanic said my steering rack may need replaced - oh joy /pan

I doubt it will need a new steering rack id say track rods/ ends.

amsoil
22-12-2007, 08:34 AM
Sorry I missed this one somehow. Use Amsoils 5w-30 + filter and leave it in there twice as long. The Mobil 1 should have cleaned the engine so a flush shouldn't be needed. The Amsoil is a better product and if you do the maths it may well save you money, never mind the agg of doing an extra oil change. If you want to 'spoil' your engine at Christmas then TSO 0w-30 is even better.



As usual thanks for the info Don.

Just a Q relating to the specific uses of my car. It did 5000 miles betwen oil changes last year. Most of my journeys are 10-15 minutes start to stop with a couple of 1 hour continuous running journeys a week. It doesnt get particularly thrashed on the whole.
What would you recommend i use? Im currently using mobil 1 0w-40 fully synth.
I chose a 0w oil as my journeys are short so the oil doesnt really get up to operating temp, so i figured a thin oil at startup temp would offer more inital protection.

amsoil
22-12-2007, 09:00 AM
Sorry to say but there is no such thing as a quality semi synthetic.
I still do not know what a semi synthetic is!!!
At best it might be 1/3 'synthetic' and 2/3 mineral but the synthetic bit might be hydro cracked (cheating) mineral oil anyway. While a semi- is generally better than a mineral oil it isn't a half way stage to being a full synthetic.... but the price usually is ! OIl companies love it as the profit margines are much greater (which should ring alarm bells) At worst it can be just 2% hydro cracked mineral oil in a cheap mineral oil.
Next stage up is the so called synthetic oils in the £30 - 40 range. These are the hyro - cracked mineral oils that are permitted to be called 'synthetic' following a perverse court judgement (thank you Castrol) some years ago. No chemist would call this stuff synthetic.
Real synthetic oils are called Amsoil, Castrol Edge, Motul etc
Realistically now the lowest standard for any car should be Mobil 1, I regret that they cheapened it and that it is no longer a full synthetic, its also not the same product as the superior Mobil 1 in the USA! . Phone them and ask.
Bottom line is that you will get what you pay for, just take into account the percentage that goes on the advertising budget of the Multi Nationals.





ok the car had its oil change. I was told they use high quality 10w-40 semi synth oil so the noise shouldn't be a direct result of the oil. Sounds a little quieter now its had a fresh dose of oil but still no where near as quiet as i remember it being.

on another note, the mechanic said my steering rack may need replaced - oh joy /pan

bradc
22-12-2007, 09:06 AM
I saw today on a Mobil 1 container fully synth, but I have heard you say in the past Don that it was no longer fully synth, I guess it might be hydro cracked.

Also Don, did you see, I've got the 850CSi now :D Here comes a big order for Amsoil NZ :)

Rikki
22-12-2007, 05:48 PM
I doubt it will need a new steering rack id say track rods/ ends.

yeah they are getting replaced next month on the hope that its not the steering rack. Something else that was needed done anyways.

In terms of the oil, what do you reckon I should do with the current oil Don? Is it worth me putting it in for another change and buying oil myself? Also which oil and grade is best?

Cheers for everyones input so far.

bradc
22-12-2007, 09:48 PM
I would suggest you change it to a nice fully synth oil and change the filter too, you'll effectively be using the cheap 10w40 as an oil flush to get rid of all of the nasties before you put the good stuff in.

Kieran
23-12-2007, 12:40 AM
I would suggest you change it to a nice fully synth oil and change the filter too, you'll effectively be using the cheap 10w40 as an oil flush to get rid of all of the nasties before you put the good stuff in.

Agreed - your new oil & filter will do a good job of mixing with the clag that's in your engine at the moment and trapping it - then you can dump it and bung in a quality oil.

Rikki
30-01-2008, 11:08 PM
Well... The oil was changed, engine flushed and it is sounding much better. Still noisy when cold but once heated up there is not much noise to complain about. I am not too sure on the oil that was used but so far its doing the job. See what happens in a few weeks time.

The tie rods also got replaced and thankfully most of the noise is gone. Surprisingly though, after the garage telling me the steering rack may need replaced, they haven't mentioned it since. Hope it stays that way.

Just thought id update this thread a bit.

KEENY
18-03-2008, 10:30 AM
ok dude here is the crack my v6 galnt sounded 100% like that and here is what i did.

simply do an oil change but put magnatec 10w-40. this will cure the problem (the first time you do it) for 6 months. then when the sound comes back do it again and it will last for a year.

my galant went in for a service and they put some shell oil in it and within 2 weeks of driving my car it sounded just like yours does. so i did the change again using magnatech 10w-40 and its cured it once again.

Paul Beazer
18-03-2008, 01:02 PM
Good quality oil will not only help the engine run smoothly (and protect it) it should also help clear out the cr@p in there too!
If done regularly then after a couple of changes it should have cleared out much of the deposited gunk in there if the oil hasnt been changed as often as it should have been, or if cheap oil was used in the past.