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View Full Version : Anyone else ever had problems getting those last few litres out of the fuel tank.



VR4 MAD
14-01-2008, 03:32 AM
Firstly, a question, where inside the fuel tank is the fuel pump pick-up, central within the tank or towards one end? The position within the tank obviously impacts on how effectively the last few litres can be accessed.

I seem to remember reading a post here by one of our esteemed UK members that he managed to fill his tank with 57 litres after running for sometime with the orange low fuel light on. That may mean he had only about 3l left in the tank. :speechles

Now I don't know how he filled up and whether he squeezed every last bit into the tank that it would take, but I use the 'automatic shut-off' feature most pumps have, as a reference to get some sort of consistency for how full the tank is each time I fill up. This is so I can more accurately gauge fuel mileage and consumption figures. Rather anal, I know but........:inquisiti

Everyone seated for a good story now.................. well here's the thing, yesterdays travells ended with me covering some 60kms approximately from the time the orange warning light first started to wink intermittently till I filled up. This distance included a quite major mountain climb to a pass and down the other side over narrow twisty mountain roads, so wasn't exactly all motorway cruising, though there was some of that too.

The horses weren't spared, so to speak either, but nor was this a twisty mountain road thrash. Towards the end the warning light was showing continuously and brightly. Ha I thought, this will be a good test to see how much was left in the tank when I get home and fill up.

But climbing the last fairly steep hill, not far from home, and with the engine under only moderate load and not revving its ring off, she suddenly and briefly hesitated and misfired a couple of times as I breasted (oh how I love that word.......sorry I digress) the top of the hill. From that point to the petrol station was about a further 10kms, either down hill or on the flat and there was no further rough running at all.

So I filled up and got exactly 53 litres in using my normal filling method mentioned above. Now this would mean that I had approximately 7l still in the tank.

Question then..............has anyone else had this sort of misfiring thing when climbing hills with the tank low and the warning light ablaze............:inquisiti

My worry is this would indicate to me that maybe those last 10l are only reliably accessible if travelling on the flat or down hill.

High engine load, up hill could be asking for ........... big trouble. Leaning out through fuel starvation can't be good, right. Big bang time maybe?

Can the ECU step in to help in these situations or not?

What say you guys.............

/toycar

Robotnik123
14-01-2008, 03:44 AM
On some cars the fuel pump is actually cooled by the fuel and running out completely can overheat and cook the fuel pump. I found this out the hard way on my 1991 E36 BMW 318i once when i ran out of gas and killed the pump. I wonder if galants are the same?



Firstly, a question, where inside the fuel tank is the fuel pump pick-up, central within the tank or towards one end? The position within the tank obviously impacts on how effectively the last few litres can be accessed.

I seem to remember reading a post here by one of our esteemed UK members that he managed to fill his tank with 57 litres after running for sometime with the orange low fuel light on. That may mean he had only about 3l left in the tank. :speechles

Now I don't know how he filled up and whether he squeezed every last bit into the tank that it would take, but I use the 'automatic shut-off' feature most pumps have, as a reference to get some sort of consistency for how full the tank is each time I fill up. This is so I can more accurately gauge fuel mileage and consumption figures. Rather anal, I know but........:inquisiti

Everyone seated for a good story now.................. well here's the thing, yesterdays travells ended with me covering some 60kms approximately from the time the orange warning light first started to wink intermittently till I filled up. This distance included a quite major mountain climb to a pass and down the other side over narrow twisty mountain roads, so wasn't exactly all motorway cruising, though there was some of that too.

The horses weren't spared, so to speak either, but nor was this a twisty mountain road thrash. Towards the end the warning light was showing continuously and brightly. Ha I thought, this will be a good test to see how much was left in the tank when I get home and fill up.

But climbing the last fairly steep hill, not far from home, and with the engine under only moderate load and not revving its ring off, she suddenly and briefly hesitated and misfired a couple of times as I breasted (oh how I love that word.......sorry I digress) the top of the hill. From that point to the petrol station was about a further 10kms, either down hill or on the flat and there was no further rough running at all.

So I filled up and got exactly 53 litres in using my normal filling method mentioned above. Now this would mean that I had approximately 7l still in the tank.

Question then..............has anyone else had this sort of misfiring thing when climbing hills with the tank low and the warning light ablaze............:inquisiti

My worry is this would indicate to me that maybe those last 10l are only reliably accessible if travelling on the flat or down hill.

High engine load, up hill could be asking for ........... big trouble. Leaning out through fuel starvation can't be good, right. Big bang time maybe?

Can the ECU step in to help in these situations or not?

What say you guys.............

/toycar

Kenneth
14-01-2008, 04:14 AM
It has been mentioned before on this site (can't recall where) that the VR-4 doesn't like going up fairly steep hills (especially at a decent rate of knots) when low on fuel.

Based on that I would say that what occurred was not out of the ordinary :)

VR4 MAD
14-01-2008, 04:23 AM
It has been mentioned before on this site (can't recall where) that the VR-4 doesn't like going up fairly steep hills (especially at a decent rate of knots) when low on fuel.

OK, can't recall reading that myself, hence why I asked. Cheers for that.

But does that misfiring represent a real danger to the engine. In my case it happened very briefly and at the top of the hill but what if it had been mid-way up and I'd been giving it a foot full...........what then. :speechles

BANG :speechles

bradc
14-01-2008, 06:08 AM
I've had the same problem going up the bombay hills a few times at around the 53-54 litre mark. The pickup point must be towards the front of the tank. Maybe it could be modified so it is moved towards the centre of the tank?

miller
14-01-2008, 02:20 PM
Its quite scary how much jumping and bucking the VR4 does when running out of fuel, my fuel gauge doesnt go below a quarter so i never see the orange light. Got caught twice now, fast left handed bends and uphill stretches will throw the fuel away from the pump IMHO
I though my engine was trying to escape the bucking was that bad.

Cheers

Mike

Turbo_Steve
14-01-2008, 02:39 PM
Complete fuel starvation isn't really that bad as there is no detonation: that's not running lean.....it's just not running at all!

The whole system relies on being pressurised, so the minute the pressure drops below boost pressure, you're not getting any fuel at all..so no risk of detonation with no fuel :)

Many traction control systems simply reduce the fuelling below 50%, which effectively kills combustion without 'running lean'. It's not something I'd encourage, but I don't think you'll wreck your engine.

All fuel pumps will cease to function if run without fuel for a prolonged period. The pump will overspin, overheat etc. But the pump should stop when the engine does...the ECU sees to that.

Nick Mann
14-01-2008, 02:45 PM
The pickup is under the rear seat. Towards the front and right of the tank. Uphill is an easy way of making the car think there is less petrol, and accelerating uphill exacerbates the situation. I don't think that you would lean out and damage the engine - I think you would get no fuel and lose power. You are losing a lot of fuel, not just a small percentage to lead to permanent damage? Having said that, I don't drive hard at all if the tank is low, as I have also had a lack of fuel in similar situations. Someone will come on now and argue with me about the dangers now, though......

I have got over 57 litres in to the auto shut off of the pump - I don't like overfilling, you tend to splash as much on your feet as you squeeze into the neck. That was about 30-40 miles after the light first flickered on and off.

stuartturbo
14-01-2008, 09:13 PM
I did run out to day /lol
Rolled into petrol station after cutting out a couple of time down hill
put 10 litres( pikey fuel).Drove 4 miles then got a further 48litres till cut out

VR4 MAD
14-01-2008, 10:32 PM
Well thanks for the feed-back and advice guys.

Looks like I should aim to have about 10l left in the tank when I tackle the final hill before home and my local 98 octane station, if I'm to get home safely. :pimp2: /rally

Seems to me a silly idea to put the fuel pick-up at the front of the tank as all the important situations requiring fuel will have the fuel going to the back of the tank away from the pick-up, ie climbing hills, acceleration, just when you are likely to want the maximum fuel flow you can get. You can always coast down a hill but not up, if all the remaining fuel moves away from the pick-up. /pan /Grrr

/toycar